Ulster Minor Final - Derry v Tyrone

[Maguire01]

Just up on BBC:

Red Hands admit point was error 

Tyrone's Cormac Arkinson scored the controversial point at Clones
Derry's bid to have the Ulster MFC final replayed has been boosted after Tyrone officials admitted that a point awarded in the first half was a wide.
Television replays have confirmed that Cormac Arkinson's effort did not go between the uprights.

The score decided the outcome in the end, the Red Hands scraping through on a 0-10 to 1-6 scoreline.

Tyrone boss Raymond Munroe said he thought it was a wide but believes the result should stand.

He added: "To be quite honest, I thought it didn't go over the bar. There are officials out there, it's not my part to play.

"Everybody makes mistakes - it's a tough call, if it didn't go over the bar, but there are officials out there to act on that, five officials there in that area.

"I can't change that. If we did win it with a point like that then that's unfortunate.

"But we have been on the end of bad decisions many times as well. It's cruel, but that's football."

Derry chairman Seamus McCloy has confirmed that an appeal will be lodged with the Ulster Council.

He believes that a replay would be the most appropriate way to settle the controversy.

"If the video evidence is as clear as everything else is, we will certainly be protesting," he said.

"I think that would be Tyrone's opinion as well. No-one wants to win a game by a wide ball, and it was a totally wide ball.

Cathal McCrory's injury-time point earned Tyrone victory at Clones.

Derry looked set to have earned a replay when James Kielt hit two late points to bring the sides level.

However, McCrory then fired over the towering winning score.

Gavin McGeehan scored Derry's goal in the first half.

Both sides will advance to the All-Ireland quarter-finals irrespective of the outcome of the provincial final.  

[ONeill]

I was umpire at a few club matches last year, and I'll be honest, I didn't have a clue if the ball was inside or outside the post on the majority of occasions (I am including the relatively clearcut points here too).

Holy Jaysus. Have you rang Vision Express by any chance?

[Red Nose Red Hand]

Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact.

You just defeated your own argument, with that clarification of tyhe difference between opinion and fact. Thanks, it's a fact that it was a wide ball. Tyrone and Derry scored the same. So how can Tyrone accept their medals and why should they feel entitled to keep the cup. Offer a replay!

[SuperDooperCooper]

It's tough luck on the Derry minors but that's life. The game is over and no replay should be awarded.
Officials make mistakes, In the Munster senior final the umpire went for a flag from a free about 1 foot wide.
The problem lies with the ref having his best mates as umpires, for championship games umpires should be trained in where to stand in relation to where the ball is.
The should always have the ball in line with the post. In the Munster minor final Cork got a point from a shot about a foot wide as well, It's tough but that's sport.
This problem occurs year after year and nothing seems to be done about it.

[ONeill]

Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact.

You just defeated your own argument, with that clarification of tyhe difference between opinion and fact. Thanks, it's a fact that it was a wide ball. Tyrone and Derry scored the same. So how can Tyrone accept their medals and why should they feel entitled to keep the cup. Offer a replay!

So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.

[rrhf]

The umpires could not stand in the right place because of the ridiculous bbc/rte cameras. As for Tyrone Ive always felt we should appeal the mistakes of 1995 or indeed the Ulster final 2005.  Unfortunately its a bitter pill for Derry to swallow but its not tyrone fault either.  

[Red Nose Red Hand]

[/quote]

So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
[/quote]

Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.

[ONeill]

So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.
[/quote]

Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.
[/quote]

What? A square ball is a square ball and, just as the umpire yesterday, it's up to the officials to spot it. If a forward scores a goal from 15m out and the ref, who's well off the pace, wrongly and mysteriously blows for a square ball, even though everyone in the ground and at home knows it wasn't - do you offer a replay?

What I'm saying is that you cannot offer replays for human error or you'll set a dangerous precedent. Balls that were miles over the goalline but not given etc....

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

So, you're saying that if camera replays show that a square-ball wasn't a square-ball it's not a fact? It's exactly the same thing.

Matters such as those are open to interpretation of rules. This one is not.

Would disagree there RNRH, if the camera shows an opposing player inside the parallelogram before the ball, that's decisive proof, but can no more be revisited after the game than this particular incident can.

[tintin25]

What's with the OAP's doing empire for the big matches neways? Surely they can grab a few neutral young cubs to do the job! Don't wanna hear this crap about tv cameras getting in the way neither. Not bloody rocket science to see whether a ball has gone over the bar or not!!!

[Louper]

bwtween what hapned in the minor match and the likes of the few sqaure ball incidents wve had this year the gaa seriously needs to put more of an emphasis on the job an umpire has to do. they arent there for decoration. if the referee had made such a balls-up he'd be under scrutiny from every corner of the county but when some eejit cant see a ball 6ft away from him theres somethin seriously wrong. umpires are part of the refereeing team and need to be more involved and make more accurate decisions. THAT IS THEIR JOB. as for tyrone offering a replay i doubt they will and why would they? i know its not the same as winnin ulster but at least derry are still in the running.

[orangeman]

Isn't it ridiculous that after an Ulster minor final in Clones ( yes, Ulster final - not a wee league game between two club sides )that the main topic of conversation is whether it was a point or not - most people agree that it was a wide - in fact I don;t think that sanyone disagrees - so more importantly what can we do to prevent this from happening again - it's a shame in thin 2007 that we can't decide if a ball is over the ball or not !

[Louper]

Isn't it ridiculous that after an Ulster minor final in Clones ( yes, Ulster final - not a wee league game between two club sides )that the main topic of conversation is whether it was a point or not - most people agree that it was a wide - in fact I don;t think that sanyone disagrees - so more importantly what can we do to prevent this from happening again - it's a shame in thin 2007 that we can't decide if a ball is over the ball or not !

my point exactly orangeman. its a disgrace that these incidents are even happening! i wouldnt mind questioning the umpire beside that post to see what the hell he was actually doing! if its his eyesight then he shouldnt be there in the 1st place. and again just to point out im not now concerned with a replay or the fact that derry lost its the principle! this could and more than likely will happen again and again and again. and god knows it could be a vital one in an all ireland semi or somethin! it needs sorted now.

[nrico2006]

As stated in a previous post, if a referee made such a balls-up he would be scrutinised heavily.  It was mentioned earlier that most umpires are old buggers, which is fairly true.  They seem to be picked by the referee, but the majority of umpires don't seem to have a clue.  Having seen the replay of the 'score' it really is bemusing how someone standing at that post made the wrong call - also it is becoming far too common that referee's don't over-rule.  How the hell could the referee not see that it was wide, surely 2 umpires and the referee aren't that incompotent.  Far too often now is blunders like this deciding matches.  The square ball rule as mentioned is a constant problem, action definitely needs to be taken soon.  Also, it seems the norm now for a player to receive a tick everytime a foul is committed.

[never kickt a ball]

Is that an Orangeman sitting behind the goals?