Ulster Minor Final - Derry v Tyrone

[the green man]

According to RTE, Derry management are protesting over a point that was given but common consenses was that it was wide>  Good luck to them.

Was talking to  the minor management this evening. The first they heard of an appeal was on the bus home. They never asked for an appeal. Obviously our county board have seen headlines again, and want some themselves.

[Red Nose Red Hand]

Both teams are in an All-Ireland Quarter Final - the exact same stage.

You're setting a dangerous precedent here. What if a square-ball had been given when cameras proved it wasn't? What if a goalkeeper was adjudged to step over the line yet we see later he didn't? Mistakes are made (as in Derry/Cavan '97) but you get on with it. Luckily, now, the losing finalists are afforded a second chance.
[/quote]

I appreciate that they are in the same stage; but Tyrone players have Ulster medals in their pockets and Derry have nothing, even though the teams actually achieved the same score today. Our players deserve to be able to show off their medals to their grandchildren knowing they won them fairly and squarely - and not because of being given the decisive score because some guy with defective eyesight was given a white coat, instead of a white stick.
The examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact. The rules apparently cover this case very clearly and say no objection can be successfully lodged, but this is only to cover their backside in case such as today's where trophies and medals are handed over and it would be hugely embarrassing to ask for them back.
Can Lone Shark confirm that bets have been paid out on successful internet wagers, incidentally?

[ONeill]

The examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact.

That's nonsense. How can video proof be opinion? If video shows that a FF was not in the box and scored a goal, whilst the ref disallowed it, that's fact.

Today the umpire's 'opinion' was that the ball was over. He was wrong. Human error.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I think its time the GAA took a more youthful approach to match day officials.I may be wrong this time but in general i would say that most umpires would be of mature years & not having 20/20 eyesight,which should be a basic requiement for such an important role in any inter-county fixture.

I've often thought that some of the umpires round today should be put out to grass. Many of them seem to be well on the way to receiving their free bus pass and on top of that are often trying to shift enormous porter bellies in order to get into position to judge on a score.

When you see the umpires in Ausse Rules they often look like fairly fit guys in their late 20's and 30's. Presumably trainee refs.

Not that being younger and slimmer stops you from making mistakes but it can't help if you're a bit doddery and have mobility issues due to trying to fit your gut inside a white coat bursting at the seams.

[Red Nose Red Hand]

The examples you quote don't equate to what happened in today's match. Unlike those, the decision today wasn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of absolute fact.

That's nonsense. How can video proof be opinion? If video shows that a FF was not in the box and scored a goal, whilst the ref disallowed it, that's fact.

Today the umpire's 'opinion' was that the ball was over. He was wrong. Human error.

Can you not appreciate that there is a difference between a score being allowed or disallowed, rightly or wrongly, and one being awarded which simply was not a score because it was outside the post? One is down to opinion, the other is a simple fact.

[ONeill]

You don't understand. There is no difference. Either it was or it wasn't. Opinion in GAA is only used correctly with discipline issues. Fact is black or white. The umpire's opinion was that it was a point. He was wrong. Camera angles showed that. Fact. The same thing can happen with penalties inside and outside the box - cameras can confirm fact or not.

[KIDDO]

Talk about dodgy umpires ,what about Mickey Hughes and his performance in the Dublin v Laois game today , bad call  in relation to theDublin goal , a performance that Tyrone people have to put  up with most weekends .

[rrhf]

Congratulations to Tyrone minors and a hard luck call for Derry at least they are still in the back door.  As for what happened yesterday it wqas a disgrace the way the cameras were positioned beheind that goal infringing into the field of play and taking up essential umpiring room behind the goals.  2 questions:
1) Will BBC / RTE pay heavy fans for infringement on the field of play as you would have to if you were a participant.
2)  Will BBC / RTE apologise to the Derry county board admitting their belief that the cameras interfered with the unpiring function ensuring that a mistake was likely to happen - On a brighter note the improved camera angles will let us highlight that mistake better on TV.   
Who is responsible for keeping the paparazzi off our goalkeepers bald patches?

[Hardy]

Tommy Lyons reckoned it didn't matter because it happened in the first half. If it had happened near the end, it would be a problem, he said. That's an exciting new interpretation of the rules, whereby scores in the first half are far less important than those in the second – hardly worth anything at all, it seems.

I'm not clear about the ratio – maybe it's that first half scores are worth 25% of second half ones. Whatever the rule is, I'm glad the ref in our match on Saturday didn't know about it. We led 7-4 at half time and 11-9 at the end. If the new rule had been applied we'd have lost by six points to five and three quarters.

[Bogball XV]

I've often thought that some of the umpires round today should be put out to grass. Many of them seem to be well on the way to receiving their free bus pass and on top of that are often trying to shift enormous porter bellies in order to get into position to judge on a score.

When you see the umpires in Ausse Rules they often look like fairly fit guys in their late 20's and 30's. Presumably trainee refs.

Not that being younger and slimmer stops you from making mistakes but it can't help if you're a bit doddery and have mobility issues due to trying to fit your gut inside a white coat bursting at the seams.

I was umpire at a few club matches last year, and I'll be honest, I didn't have a clue if the ball was inside or outside the post on the majority of occasions (I am including the relatively clearcut points here too).  I tried standing behind the goals etc too as the ball went over, but it's difficult to get it right.  I made the calls based on the reactions of the players, those shooting and defending - truth is, the ref was normally in the best position to see anyway - don't know what I'm rambling on about here, maybe I'm proposing electronic umpiring - how hard can it be??

[Hardy]

That's interesting Bogball. I've never heard that before and we all assume umpiring is easy. I admit I've never done it, but I've always assumed the problem is in the umpire's positioning. You need to be located differently as the ball comes in depending on where it's played from, whether it's high, low, etc. In most cases, I'd assume you need to keep the space between the posts in your line of vision to the ball – i.e umpires should be standing behind the goal, looking through the posts at the position of the ball, not standing on the line outside the posts. . However, for a high ball above the posts that's also curling, the only way you can tell if it's inside or outside the post as it crosses the plane of the posts is to be positioned right by the post and looking up.

I'd be interested to hear which scores (or misses) caused you the most problems.,

[clawaddy]

Any truth in the rumour the Tyrone legal team are examining the rules on near misses/wides just in case rheir boys are asked for the medals to be returned.  With their success rate in legal challenges Derry would be better to admit now that the ball went over the bar

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Derry would be wasting their time with an appeal. By the time it would be over Fergal Logan would have the authorities convinced the ball went over the bar anyway. Legend.

[lynchbhoy]

well done tyrone minors
Once the whistle is blown the game is over.
Thats it. No court room challenges , no change of result.

OK if a team offers a replay, then the opposition can decide to accept this or not, but I most def would not be expecting or waiting and wanting tyrone to do this.

Thats football, thats how it always was, and these court room struggles have no place in the GAA

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

OK if a team offers a replay, then the opposition can decide to accept this or not, but I most def would not be expecting or waiting and wanting tyrone to do this.

An extra game at this stage would do neither team any favours, in the wider scheme of things (All-Ireland).