Man Utd Thread:

[NAG1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

How many games did Giggs/ Scholes play last year?

It all honesty looking at it objectively or at least trying to, it is probably a combination of DM and the players to blame for the slide.

Whether you say DM cant get the best out of RVP or whether you say RVP is pissed off and didnt like Fergie retiring on him and has decided to protect himself for the WC we will never know.

The decision needs to be made and this is where David Gill is a massive loss, as to how, where and when to splash the cash.

[brokencrossbar1]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.

You can't blame the players for all of that,  he is simply letting the ship sink around him as he hasn't a clue how to  stop the water coming in. 

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful.

No, I am not comparing their squads. Bayern change manager and get better. Man Utd change manager and get worse. Do you think Man Utd would be in their current pickle if Guardiola was in charge?

No, but Guardiola wasn't available at the time and I still think he would have struggled albeit to a lesser extent. Up until last summer Moyes was considered one of the best managers in the English game so there aren't THAT many managers that would have done a whole lot better whilst maintaining the stability that a plc club requires. The oil clubs like Man City and Chelsea can hire and fire at will since there is less accountability and a desire for instant success but a plc has to be run in a different manner.

I'm not saying Moyes is the right man but they (Ferguson) made the decision to give him the job and I can't see them sacking him at this junction nor what it would achieve. In fact it would probably make things worse if they sacked him. Ferguson himself was the victim of protests and abusive banners from fans so it would be hugely hypocritical of him to sack Moyes to appease the 'glory glory' brigade at this junction.   

[Mayo4Sam]

"In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said."

[rodney trotter]

Utd won the league 11pts last seaon, if those other clubs hadn't so many problems that wouldn't have been the case. Machester City with Mancini as manager last season had many fall outs, and he came to blows with Balotteli in training in December 2012. They weren't a united team last year. Chelsea sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez , Benitez got off to a terrible start with Chelsea so they fell further behind the league race

Utd were never 11pts better last season.

[brokencrossbar1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

How many games did Giggs/ Scholes play last year?

It all honesty looking at it objectively or at least trying to, it is probably a combination of DM and the players to blame for the slide.

Whether you say DM cant get the best out of RVP or whether you say RVP is pissed off and didnt like Fergie retiring on him and has decided to protect himself for the WC we will never know.

The decision needs to be made and this is where David Gill is a massive loss, as to how, where and when to splash the cash.

Hold on now are you saying that Scholes and Giggs were the difference last year?  If that is the case then surely the money that was spent on Mata and Fellani should have arrested that problem,   it didn't and that is purely down to Moyes.  He is a mid table mentality manager,  similar to Hodgson when he was appointed at Liverpool,  and will do irrepearable damage to United if left there.  #MoyesIn

"In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said."

I saw that, can you imagine Fergie coming out with such shite.  Hodgson did the same typeof things a few times!

[EC Unique]

Utd won the league 11pts last seaon, if those other clubs hadn't so many problems that wouldn't have been the case. Machester City with Mancini as manager last season had many fall outs, and he came to blows with Balotteli in training in December 2012. They weren't a united team last year. Chelsea sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez , Benitez got off to a terrible start with Chelsea so they fell further behind the league race

Utd were never 11pts better last season.

I understand that but they are also not the 7th or 8th best squad in the league either.

[orangeman]

In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said.

[EC Unique]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.

You can't blame the players for all of that,  he is simply letting the ship sink around him as he hasn't a clue how to  stop the water coming in.

The only hard bit to understand is the away record. Best in the League. It is the home record that is so hard to take as OT was such a fortress over the years.

[deiseach]

There's nothing hypocritical about admitting you made a bad appointment. What is hypocritical is claiming to be motivated by the best interests of the fans yet persisting with a colossal vanity project. In that sense, Moyes isn't the problem, Ferguson is. But the solution still involves replacing Moyes.

[brokencrossbar1]

I can imagine it is hard to take,  particularly with talk that it OT is going to be renamed the 0 3 Arena!

[NAG1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

How many games did Giggs/ Scholes play last year?

It all honesty looking at it objectively or at least trying to, it is probably a combination of DM and the players to blame for the slide.

Whether you say DM cant get the best out of RVP or whether you say RVP is pissed off and didnt like Fergie retiring on him and has decided to protect himself for the WC we will never know.

The decision needs to be made and this is where David Gill is a massive loss, as to how, where and when to splash the cash.

Hold on now are you saying that Scholes and Giggs were the difference last year?  If that is the case then surely the money that was spent on Mata and Fellani should have arrested that problem,   it didn't and that is purely down to Moyes.  He is a mid table mentality manager,  similar to Hodgson when he was appointed at Liverpool,  and will do irrepearable damage to United if left there.  #MoyesIn

"In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said."

I saw that, can you imagine Fergie coming out with such shite.  Hodgson did the same typeof things a few times!

I'm not saying they made the difference, but that kind of quality in and around the squad not even just match days is invaluable.

I have always said and I'm not changing my mind now, that we give him the money to spend and back him with that and then see where we end up next season.

I am getting thoroughly f***** off with the media coverage surrounding this, what has United's form been like all season? Poor Below average and not threatening to the top 6 teams, so when Liverpool come to OT flying scoring goals playing well full of confidence and beat United, its an embarrassment!? Then when a City team come to OT again full of confidence and goals and win its a humiliation.

No its not its good teams beating a team in a run of bad form. It isn't easy to take as a United fan, but it is the reality of the situation. I could seriously have reached into the radio last night and choked Alan Greene for his more than smug summing up of the game.

[brokencrossbar1]

[J OGorman]

Carrick and Wazza are really the only 2 players starting for UTD last night you'd want to hold on to (Mata too I suppose). Always wanting to be on the ball to make things work. The twin right back, though he cant tackle, at least put in a shift. The rest are a waste of space. Evra for example spent half the night joking and chatting to the city players whilst failing to deliver a decent cross in 90+ minutes. Big money is spent by fans to go to see these games, the majority of the utd players are showing them zero respect with their performances.

If Utd had hit City with everything at the start of the 2nd half to continue their good spell at the end of the 1st half, City were there for the taking, but the bottom line is, most of the players didnt want it enough

[blewuporstuffed]

I can imagine it is hard to take,  particularly with talk that it OT is going to be renamed the 0 3 Arena!

First I heard of that!

Source?