Man Utd Thread:

[yellowcard]

I'm not a Man Utd fan but their fans need to get real. Blaming everything on Moyes is grossly unfair considering some of the deadwood he was left behind by Ferguson. At best there are about 6 or 7 players in that squad worth keeping the rest are either too old, want out or are simply not good enough.

However Moyes has to take some responsibility for signing Fellaini and Mata for way more than their market value. Mata is a decent player but couldn't get on the Chelsea team nor make the most recent Spanish squad. That tells you something. Fellaini is not nor will never be good enough for Man Utd. As for Rooneys £300k per week contract, that will cause major problems down the line.

So what are the major differences between the squad that Ferguson won the league by 11 points with last year and the squad that is currently 18 points out of first place?

Some players have downed tools for whatever reason since Ferguson left.. Three quarters of their first choice back 4 are past it while the other Raphael, is a poor right back. It's common knowledge that their midfield has been muck for a good few years, Paul Scholes had to be brought out of retirement to hide deficiencies in this area a few years back whilst Giigs is now only fit for monthly appearances.

Rooney has been decent this season and Van Persie is quality but looks to be one of those who wants out. The club has disintegrated into a mess and Ferguson should be held more accountable than Moyes imo. It was his decision to appoint Moyes and if it's thought that Moyes isn't up to the job then questions need to be asked of the man who appointed him. I have a lot of sympathy for Moyes who I believe was given an impossible task, yet who would have turned down the job and a lucrative 6 year contract. However a new manager will have the exact same problems so I don't think changing horse now will solve all ills. They need to give him a summer to get his own players and judge him at the end of next season. If he can manage to get them back into th CL by the end of next season he will have done a very good job imo.

[seafoid]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

[yellowcard]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

That's the thing. A whole generation of fans have been fed a diet of success and glory and need to re adjust their expectations. The reason a lot of them would have chosen to support Man Utd in the first instance will have been because of this. I have no real sympathy for these type of fans but it's hard to watch Moyes suffer and take the brunt of it.

[seafoid]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

That's the thing. A whole generation of fans have been fed a diet of success and glory and need to re adjust their expectations. The reason a lot of them would have chosen to support Man Utd in the first instance will have been because of this. I have no real sympathy for these type of fans but it's hard to watch Moyes suffer and take the brunt of it.

This thing of attaching yourself to success couldn't go on forever anyway. Imagine if it that was possible in GAA. Winning would be no fun.

Moyes was smart. He got a 6 year contract so if they buy him out he'll be fine. He can always get another job managing a team like Villa or WBA. Dunphy says football belongs to the fans but it doesn't any more.

The whole thing reminds me of Meath in the last days of the Boylan administration. The fans were screaming for Eamonn but it didn't make any difference.  Decline is hard to take.

[deiseach]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Don't agree with that at all. If he is not up to the job (as he may well be) then questions need to be asked of those who appointed him and their judgement ie Alex Ferguson. Part of the reason that the fans in the stadium haven't turned more forcefully on Moyes is because it was Ferguson who appointed Moyes and told them to 'stand by their manager'. If it had been the Glazers that had appointed Moyes he would have been gone by Christmas. Therefore can you imagine the next manager appointed who in all likelihood WON'T have the backing of Ferguson and will be perceived to have been a GLAZER appointment. He will get a lot less leeway yet will still have a rotting squad with a multitude of deficiencies. God knows where this will end up as they have spent £65m already yet have got worse as the season has gone on. They need to spend big in the summer which if it isn't got right, could put the whole future of the club in jeopardy given the debt levels that already exist. 

[rodney trotter]

Bayern Munich had a team of World Class players when Guardiola over, Utd didn't when Moyes took over, hardly a great comparison.

[deiseach]

Bayern Munich had a team of World Class players when Guardiola over, Utd didn't when Moyes took over, hardly a great comparison.

The point is that changing a manager does not inevitably lead to a downturn in fortunes. Your team lacking world class players won the title last season. Look at them now.

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful. 

[brokencrossbar1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

[deiseach]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful.

No, I am not comparing their squads. Bayern change manager and get better. Man Utd change manager and get worse. Do you think Man Utd would be in their current pickle if Guardiola was in charge?

[EC Unique]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Don't agree with that at all. If he is not up to the job (as he may well be) then questions need to be asked of those who appointed him and their judgement ie Alex Ferguson. Part of the reason that the fans in the stadium haven't turned more forcefully on Moyes is because it was Ferguson who appointed Moyes and told them to 'stand by their manager'. If it had been the Glazers that had appointed Moyes he would have been gone by Christmas. Therefore can you imagine the next manager appointed who in all likelihood WON'T have the backing of Ferguson and will be perceived to have been a GLAZER appointment. He will get a lot less leeway yet will still have a rotting squad with a multitude of deficiencies. God knows where this will end up as they have spent £65m already yet have got worse as the season has gone on. They need to spend big in the summer which if it isn't got right, could put the whole future of the club in jeopardy given the debt levels that already exist. 

They won the league by 11 points last year FFS!

I did not really expect Moyes to come in and win the league but the least Utd fans expect is a top 4 finish. You can say what you want about aging players etc but that squad should be good enough to make the top 4 when the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool are currently there.

[imtommygunn]

Moyes always went 4-5-1 at everton and when he tried 4-4-2 it didn't work.

Players like Tim Cahill and Phil Neville worked brilliantly under him but when you added a bit more flair to it in Coleman or Barkley he never really gave them too much of a chance. Even Baines took ages to get a go as they had a centre back in there (Lescott).

Always too negative. This was ok for a club who were trying to build from being relegation candidates to moving up the table but not for a big club.

All for giving managers a chance and all but I think it's beyond that point now. There is no confidence in that team whatsoever - they were beat from the start and Fellaini looks absolutely useless. Even Mata, who's a superb player, doesn't look great.

[brokencrossbar1]

Tells a big tale

[EC Unique]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.