Dublin v Derry

[oakleaflad]

Will be interesting to see if the other Leinster teams will learn from the past few games. It's amazing how clueless Dublin are against a packed defence, surely somebody in Leinster is watching this and will put it up to the Dubs this year.

now  there's a province needs coached.

True but ulster could do with some forward coaches. If they had better forwards they wouldn't have to play like this

Not true Indiana. Ulster have as good a quality forward as anywhere else. That is not the reason they 'play like this'.
You re as likely to play blanket defense if you re backs are not good as if you have poor forwards.
Anyway coaching is not the issue in Ulster. Probably the most coached province in it. Some would say too much coaching - in a particular style - too soon.

Bar one or two I think the quality of forwards in Ulster is very low. Lower then its been for a long time.

If there is a lack of quality forwards then it is more likely a lack of talent rather than lack of coaching. The 2 most coached teams I ve seen have been from Ulster, Harte's Tyrone and McGuinness's Donegal. Both had good forwards too but gave themselves a better chance of winning by negating the oppositions attacking strengths.

Donegal have good forwards- nobody else does  Conor Mc Manus aside.

Stevie O Neill- Linden-Tony Boyle- Canavan- Mulligan- Ross Carr- Greg Blaney- Mc Donnell- Ronan Clarke- John Mc Entee. Its  a wasteground currently

You take a 14 year old and show him how to kick off both feet or show him how to be a sweeper.

Ah come on now. Eoin Bradley and Jamie Clarke for example aren't good forwards?

[BallyhaiseMan]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Feck me you were impressed by the Dubs? They only conceded 0-4 because Derry are shite and didn't try to attack. Tyrone aren't great and should have beaten them last time out and the Donegal game last year highlighted all their flaws that are still there, have they improved from then? What evidence have you seen to suggest they'll be better against a Donegal style set up this summer than last?

Any team that sets up that defensively are going to be shite going forward, though Derry were admittedly particularly bad. Donegal got every break going last year and I'd imagine that Dublin will simply leave their half backs in their positions when faced with a blanket defence which is all they need to do to beat such teams. It's not rocket science, the blanket defence has been sussed and all the Ulster teams are doing is making games which could be 2-14 to 1-12  into 0-8 to 0-5. Dublin aren't showing their hand yet but anyone, like the boys on Setanta, who thing they aren't working on it in training are simple.

Or  2-21 to 0-16, 2-25 to 1-12 or 3-20 to 1-10,like Laois,Wexford and Meath done last year.
Kerry are probably the only team capable of  beating Dublin in an attacking open game,and I have my doubts whether they would be up to the task either.
Trying to go out and playing open attacking football against Dublin is suicide. There is nothing wrong with what Derry did tonight,Keep it low scoring and close and try and nick it.
This general whinging (Not attacking you on this Zulu) about defensive football and blanket defences is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

[ONeill]

Jamie lined out in the half back line during the McKenna. Imagine Canavan or Linden with 5 on their back.

[BennyHarp]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Feck me you were impressed by the Dubs? They only conceded 0-4 because Derry are shite and didn't try to attack. Tyrone aren't great and should have beaten them last time out and the Donegal game last year highlighted all their flaws that are still there, have they improved from then? What evidence have you seen to suggest they'll be better against a Donegal style set up this summer than last?

Any team that sets up that defensively are going to be shite going forward, though Derry were admittedly particularly bad. Donegal got every break going last year and I'd imagine that Dublin will simply leave their half backs in their positions when faced with a blanket defence which is all they need to do to beat such teams. It's not rocket science, the blanket defence has been sussed and all the Ulster teams are doing is making games which could be 2-14 to 1-12  into 0-8 to 0-5. Dublin aren't showing their hand yet but anyone, like the boys on Setanta, who thing they aren't working on it in training are simple.

Maybe they are working on a master plan to roll out in the summer but as far as I can see they have struggled in the last 3 games against teams who packed their defence. Makes me wonder if their players are disciplined enough to stick to a game plan that may be required against such a system. They are still the most likely team to win the AI, though it may be a horrible oul Summer as every team tries this against them. I don't blame the teams though, nobody like being on the recieving end of a trimming and for some leinster teams, just keeping it competitive for an hour will be an improvement.

[moysider]

Will be interesting to see if the other Leinster teams will learn from the past few games. It's amazing how clueless Dublin are against a packed defence, surely somebody in Leinster is watching this and will put it up to the Dubs this year.

now  there's a province needs coached.

True but ulster could do with some forward coaches. If they had better forwards they wouldn't have to play like this

Not true Indiana. Ulster have as good a quality forward as anywhere else. That is not the reason they 'play like this'.
You re as likely to play blanket defense if you re backs are not good as if you have poor forwards.
Anyway coaching is not the issue in Ulster. Probably the most coached province in it. Some would say too much coaching - in a particular style - too soon.

Bar one or two I think the quality of forwards in Ulster is very low. Lower then its been for a long time.

If there is a lack of quality forwards then it is more likely a lack of talent rather than lack of coaching. The 2 most coached teams I ve seen have been from Ulster, Harte's Tyrone and McGuinness's Donegal. Both had good forwards too but gave themselves a better chance of winning by negating the oppositions attacking strengths.

Donegal have good forwards- nobody else does  Conor Mc Manus aside.

Stevie O Neill- Linden-Tony Boyle- Canavan- Mulligan- Ross Carr- Greg Blaney- Mc Donnell- Ronan Clarke- John Mc Entee. Its  a wasteground currently

You take a 14 year old and show him how to kick off both feet or show him how to be a sweeper.

The lads you mention are legends. Any county is lucky to see the likes of one of them in the generation - in case of Canavan in a century.

Quality is not just a question of coaching. I know lads playing junior who can kick off both feet but I would still be able to mark them out of a game ( used to be a one sided forward) because they can t run and have no brain/radar.

[Zulu]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Feck me you were impressed by the Dubs? They only conceded 0-4 because Derry are shite and didn't try to attack. Tyrone aren't great and should have beaten them last time out and the Donegal game last year highlighted all their flaws that are still there, have they improved from then? What evidence have you seen to suggest they'll be better against a Donegal style set up this summer than last?

Any team that sets up that defensively are going to be shite going forward, though Derry were admittedly particularly bad. Donegal got every break going last year and I'd imagine that Dublin will simply leave their half backs in their positions when faced with a blanket defence which is all they need to do to beat such teams. It's not rocket science, the blanket defence has been sussed and all the Ulster teams are doing is making games which could be 2-14 to 1-12  into 0-8 to 0-5. Dublin aren't showing their hand yet but anyone, like the boys on Setanta, who thing they aren't working on it in training are simple.

Or  2-21 to 0-16, 2-25 to 1-12 or 3-20 to 1-10,like Laois,Wexford and Meath done last year.
Kerry are probably the only team capable of  beating Dublin in an attacking open game,and I have my doubts whether they would be up to the task either.
Trying to go out and playing open attacking football against Dublin is suicide. There is nothing wrong with what Derry did tonight,Keep it low scoring and close and try and nick it.
This general whinging (Not attacking you on this Zulu) about defensive football and blanket defences is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

Why is it tiresome BH? It isn't good to watch defensive football so why not criticise it? Football is a rough and tumble game best played at pace where you try and beat your opponent not simply not lose to them.

[JoG2]

Load of bollox. Derry don't have the quality up front to punish teams when playing 15 behind the ball

youse would be wise doubling your backroom team and buying a reck more laptops to try and get to grips with the blanket (an experienced blanket that is)

You'd be wise to employ some gaelic football coaches up there. That's two shite performances from derry teams in 2 weeks in CP.

Give us a wee bit from your cash reserves and we'll have them start on Monday evening

What happened the £120m you got from HM Govt? Give us a sub will you?

Derry GAA got 120M sterling? News to me

[moysider]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Feck me you were impressed by the Dubs? They only conceded 0-4 because Derry are shite and didn't try to attack. Tyrone aren't great and should have beaten them last time out and the Donegal game last year highlighted all their flaws that are still there, have they improved from then? What evidence have you seen to suggest they'll be better against a Donegal style set up this summer than last?

Any team that sets up that defensively are going to be shite going forward, though Derry were admittedly particularly bad. Donegal got every break going last year and I'd imagine that Dublin will simply leave their half backs in their positions when faced with a blanket defence which is all they need to do to beat such teams. It's not rocket science, the blanket defence has been sussed and all the Ulster teams are doing is making games which could be 2-14 to 1-12  into 0-8 to 0-5. Dublin aren't showing their hand yet but anyone, like the boys on Setanta, who thing they aren't working on it in training are simple.

Or  2-21 to 0-16, 2-25 to 1-12 or 3-20 to 1-10,like Laois,Wexford and Meath done last year.
Kerry are probably the only team capable of  beating Dublin in an attacking open game,and I have my doubts whether they would be up to the task either.
Trying to go out and playing open attacking football against Dublin is suicide. There is nothing wrong with what Derry did tonight,Keep it low scoring and close and try and nick it.
This general whinging (Not attacking you on this Zulu) about defensive football and blanket defences is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

Why is it tiresome BH? It isn't good to watch defensive football so why not criticise it? Football is a rough and tumble game best played at pace where you try and beat your opponent not simply not lose to them.

Ideally yes, but from a county that has always gone down the pace and naive road I wish we were more practical. We ve ended up as a laughing stock because of our off-the -cuff culture. If we had a more ambitious and tactical/organised approach these last 30 years even we would not be in this mess - and really it is a mess. The latest county board appointment(s) suggests we will yo-yo along yet.

The older I get the more convinced I am that sport is all about results and entertainment is just a by-product. Winning is the bottom line.

[lynchbhoy]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Unless you reckon retaining at most three attackers in your opponents half when you are defending as
Not being defensive....

Dublin did it last season too

Ok they aren't as defensive as under gilroy but I don't see anything wrong with it

All the top teams Inc Kerry tyrone donegal Etc all set up defensively in some way

[lynchbhoy]

Load of bollox. Derry don't have the quality up front to punish teams when playing 15 behind the ball

youse would be wise doubling your backroom team and buying a reck more laptops to try and get to grips with the blanket (an experienced blanket that is)

You'd be wise to employ some gaelic football coaches up there. That's two shite performances from derry teams in 2 weeks in CP.

Give us a wee bit from your cash reserves and we'll have them start on Monday evening

What happened the £120m you got from HM Govt? Give us a sub will you?

?

[BallyhaiseMan]

Clueless Benny? Dublin are doing quite well against teams who show no ambition whatsoever. Better conditions and with all their players back and fully fit they'll rip these defensive teams apart. They only conceded 0-4 tonight.

Feck me you were impressed by the Dubs? They only conceded 0-4 because Derry are shite and didn't try to attack. Tyrone aren't great and should have beaten them last time out and the Donegal game last year highlighted all their flaws that are still there, have they improved from then? What evidence have you seen to suggest they'll be better against a Donegal style set up this summer than last?

Any team that sets up that defensively are going to be shite going forward, though Derry were admittedly particularly bad. Donegal got every break going last year and I'd imagine that Dublin will simply leave their half backs in their positions when faced with a blanket defence which is all they need to do to beat such teams. It's not rocket science, the blanket defence has been sussed and all the Ulster teams are doing is making games which could be 2-14 to 1-12  into 0-8 to 0-5. Dublin aren't showing their hand yet but anyone, like the boys on Setanta, who thing they aren't working on it in training are simple.

Or  2-21 to 0-16, 2-25 to 1-12 or 3-20 to 1-10,like Laois,Wexford and Meath done last year.
Kerry are probably the only team capable of  beating Dublin in an attacking open game,and I have my doubts whether they would be up to the task either.
Trying to go out and playing open attacking football against Dublin is suicide. There is nothing wrong with what Derry did tonight,Keep it low scoring and close and try and nick it.
This general whinging (Not attacking you on this Zulu) about defensive football and blanket defences is getting pretty tiresome at this stage.

Why is it tiresome BH? It isn't good to watch defensive football so why not criticise it? Football is a rough and tumble game best played at pace where you try and beat your opponent not simply not lose to them.

Why is it all about being "good to watch" Zulu? Defensive games/blanket defences are about trying to beat you opponent,in a war of attrition whereby you manage to outlast your opponent.
I thought this game was about winning,not going out and looking good/stylish.
Blanket defences simply give many teams a better chance of getting something out of a game against superior opponents with better individual players,than going out and playing nice open football and getting slaughtered.

[Throw ball]

Derry would not normally be a overly defensive team. They are having a bad league and were probably just afraid to getting a beating that would set them back for the summer. The weather conditions make it more difficult to score too.

Ulster have got a reputation for defensive football but you do not win if you cannot score. Compared to the 70s and 80s Ulster teams have been doing much better of late. Most have decent forwards. Top forwards are few throughout the country. In Ulster I feel for example, Murphy and McBearty are quality forwards in Donegal, Quigley in Fermanagh, O'Hare in Down, McManus in Monaghan. Tyrone have Cavanagh and McCurry. Young McShane looks useful too. In my own county aside from Jamie Clarke, Dyas and Stefan Campbell are top forwards. The thing is the game is about attacking and defence. Not just one or the other.

I also find it funny how many give off about the game and yet love how Southampton or Chelsea play soccer. How great they think it is when a minnow defends for 90 minutes to hold a premiership team. Then there are the others who say gaelic is nowhere near as good as rugby. A game that their own experts believe is getting too technical and defensive. A game were it is considered good play to kick the ball out! Not all teams have great players. They use what they have to try and win. It is up to the better team to overcome this. For me that is what makes the game fascinating.

[Throw ball]

Jamie lined out in the half back line during the McKenna. Imagine Canavan or Linden with 5 on their back.

Could picking a forward in a defensive position not be considered an attacking strategy?. One less defender on the pitch?

[ONeill]

Jamie lined out in the half back line during the McKenna. Imagine Canavan or Linden with 5 on their back.

Could picking a forward in a defensive position not be considered an attacking strategy?. One less defender on the pitch?

Your best forward? Further from the goal?

[Throw ball]

Jamie lined out in the half back line during the McKenna. Imagine Canavan or Linden with 5 on their back.

Could picking a forward in a defensive position not be considered an attacking strategy?. One less defender on the pitch?

Your best forward? Further from the goal?

The theory was to see if he could get on the ball more often to influence play and make it more difficult to mark him. Doubt it would be a long term strategy. He has started on the bench in 3 league games this year. That will hardly be long term either.