Dublin v Derry

[Rawhide]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

[oakleaflad]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

Patsy? There's a couple of others who wouldn't start in the best 15 IMO but I get your point.

[southderryman]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

Those 3 plus patsy and dermot mcbride. Derry aren't good enough to cope with missing a third of the team, no disrespect to the lads who come in

I'd also say Mark Craig would have started too if fit. The downside to Slaughtneil's run is that we never got a look at the likes of Karl McKaigue and a couple of others in a few league games

[tbrick18]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

I don't really agree, but the point still stands anyway in that if you believe the best chance of some kind of result against a team like Dublin is to play the ultra defensive style then why would you not do it?
Should you just decide beforehand that you're just not good enough but you'll play with gay abandon and enjoy it OR do you try to adapt to a gameplan than might be more effective given the quality of opposition you are playing?

For years in Derry we've been trying to play an attacking gameplan with no apparent Plan B (to the lament of Derry supporters now for what seems like an age), when our attack doesn't work against certain teams. Now, it seems we use a Plan B against a side with probably the most potent attack in the country and we get lambasted for it. I'd imagine if we'd went out and played an all out attacking style of game, and got thumped like the league final last year, we'd have equally vocal criticism stating we learned nothing from last year and asking why do we not play more defensively.
No it's not pretty, and its not entertaining but it's also not entertaining or pretty to get hammered out the gate. I think every team in the country tries to play to a game plan to get the most out of the players available against the particular opposition on any given day. The good managers/players adapt accordingly...when it works out its a stroke of genius and when it doesn't it's muck or the manager gets the blame.

I just don't subscribe to that train of though.

[tbrick18]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

Those 3 plus patsy and dermot mcbride. Derry aren't good enough to cope with missing a third of the team, no disrespect to the lads who come in

I'd also say Mark Craig would have started too if fit. The downside to Slaughtneil's run is that we never got a look at the likes of Karl McKaigue and a couple of others in a few league games

With McKaigue and McBride missing that's 2/3 of the full back line gone.
Craig will be a certain starter for me and if Patsy and Doc were both fit to start in MF the leaves Lynch free to be deployed in what I think is his best position in CHF. So if you look at it that way, potentially or starting championship team will have a different Full Back, Corner Back, CHB, Both Midfielders and CHF. To me that's the spine of the team.

[southderryman]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

Those 3 plus patsy and dermot mcbride. Derry aren't good enough to cope with missing a third of the team, no disrespect to the lads who come in

I'd also say Mark Craig would have started too if fit. The downside to Slaughtneil's run is that we never got a look at the likes of Karl McKaigue and a couple of others in a few league games

With McKaigue and McBride missing that's 2/3 of the full back line gone.
Craig will be a certain starter for me and if Patsy and Doc were both fit to start in MF the leaves Lynch free to be deployed in what I think is his best position in CHF. So if you look at it that way, potentially or starting championship team will have a different Full Back, Corner Back, CHB, Both Midfielders and CHF. To me that's the spine of the team.

Spot on

[Rawhide]

You are still old school thinking. In the modern game and especially in the 15 men behind the ball like we are playing and many other teams, CBs, MFs and CHFs don't exist, it is who is comfortable on the ball, can carry ball, can move side ways, and can shoot. That's is Patsy gone for me.

[cockahoop]

Another point that people havent mentioned is if Derry want to continue playing this crap the fundamental thing they are missing to do it is fitness,the last 15mins against dublin they completely ran out of steam and i cant see there fitness improve enough in time for championship so hopefully McIvor dumps this tactic

[Rawhide]

Another point that people havent mentioned is if Derry want to continue playing this crap the fundamental thing they are missing to do it is fitness,the last 15mins against dublin they completely ran out of steam and i cant see there fitness improve enough in time for championship so hopefully McIvor dumps this tactic

extremely valid point.

And another thing, and this is fact. Players are being encouraged not to kick the ball, they are being told to run it all times with the hand, i.e. keep possession and don't take any risks giving it away. I know of two players who are natural foot passers and they have been encouraged to not kick it unless thet are 100% certain of the ball.

Therefore i cannot see Derry changing their current style much, small variations depending on the opposition. Derry are planning on beating Down and meeting Donegal, and they view having any inside men as a waste of time against Donegal. They played two up last year and didn't use them, and this is viewed as two additional players who can contribute to the runnng game this year.

I can understand the rationale. Agreeing or liking it is irrelevant.

[lynchbhoy]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

I don't really agree, but the point still stands anyway in that if you believe the best chance of some kind of result against a team like Dublin is to play the ultra defensive style then why would you not do it?
Should you just decide beforehand that you're just not good enough but you'll play with gay abandon and enjoy it OR do you try to adapt to a gameplan than might be more effective given the quality of opposition you are playing?

For years in Derry we've been trying to play an attacking gameplan with no apparent Plan B (to the lament of Derry supporters now for what seems like an age), when our attack doesn't work against certain teams. Now, it seems we use a Plan B against a side with probably the most potent attack in the country and we get lambasted for it. I'd imagine if we'd went out and played an all out attacking style of game, and got thumped like the league final last year, we'd have equally vocal criticism stating we learned nothing from last year and asking why do we not play more defensively.
No it's not pretty, and its not entertaining but it's also not entertaining or pretty to get hammered out the gate. I think every team in the country tries to play to a game plan to get the most out of the players available against the particular opposition on any given day. The good managers/players adapt accordingly...when it works out its a stroke of genius and when it doesn't it's muck or the manager gets the blame.

I just don't subscribe to that train of though.

Plan A so far hasn't been too hot this season either!

hoping that we see wholesale changes in tactics etc for the championship game v down , like what happened last year.
this year hopefully it works!

don't think anyone wants plan b - if that's what was on show on sat night!
but a tweaked plan B (with some attempt to attack) might be ok

[tbrick18]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

I don't really agree, but the point still stands anyway in that if you believe the best chance of some kind of result against a team like Dublin is to play the ultra defensive style then why would you not do it?
Should you just decide beforehand that you're just not good enough but you'll play with gay abandon and enjoy it OR do you try to adapt to a gameplan than might be more effective given the quality of opposition you are playing?

For years in Derry we've been trying to play an attacking gameplan with no apparent Plan B (to the lament of Derry supporters now for what seems like an age), when our attack doesn't work against certain teams. Now, it seems we use a Plan B against a side with probably the most potent attack in the country and we get lambasted for it. I'd imagine if we'd went out and played an all out attacking style of game, and got thumped like the league final last year, we'd have equally vocal criticism stating we learned nothing from last year and asking why do we not play more defensively.
No it's not pretty, and its not entertaining but it's also not entertaining or pretty to get hammered out the gate. I think every team in the country tries to play to a game plan to get the most out of the players available against the particular opposition on any given day. The good managers/players adapt accordingly...when it works out its a stroke of genius and when it doesn't it's muck or the manager gets the blame.

I just don't subscribe to that train of though.

Plan A so far hasn't been too hot this season either!

hoping that we see wholesale changes in tactics etc for the championship game v down , like what happened last year.
this year hopefully it works!

don't think anyone wants plan b - if that's what was on show on sat night!
but a tweaked plan B (with some attempt to attack) might be ok

You're right Plan A this year hasnt worked either.
The point I was making was a more general one to cover the last number of years where we only had a plan A and no plan B (our plan A wasnt working then either), and at least now we are trying a plan B.
All I'm trying to say, is that its good to be able to adapt your style of play for different opposition, IMO.
I do think we would have executed Plan A (and Plan B) better if we had more of our first choice players available through the league, though whether or not that would have meant avoiding relegation I'm not so sure.
My biggest concerns now is how many of our first choice players will be fit for selection for the championship, can the team bed together in such a short timescale, do they have enough time to adapt to Plan A/B before then and probably most importantly what will the confidence levels be like coming into the championship given we dont have a single league win under the belt.

[JoG2]

The spine was missing, I count three players who will improve us, Mc kaigue, Doherty and skinner, that's it. None of the rest are any better footballers than whats already playing

I don't really agree, but the point still stands anyway in that if you believe the best chance of some kind of result against a team like Dublin is to play the ultra defensive style then why would you not do it?
Should you just decide beforehand that you're just not good enough but you'll play with gay abandon and enjoy it OR do you try to adapt to a gameplan than might be more effective given the quality of opposition you are playing?

For years in Derry we've been trying to play an attacking gameplan with no apparent Plan B (to the lament of Derry supporters now for what seems like an age), when our attack doesn't work against certain teams. Now, it seems we use a Plan B against a side with probably the most potent attack in the country and we get lambasted for it. I'd imagine if we'd went out and played an all out attacking style of game, and got thumped like the league final last year, we'd have equally vocal criticism stating we learned nothing from last year and asking why do we not play more defensively.
No it's not pretty, and its not entertaining but it's also not entertaining or pretty to get hammered out the gate. I think every team in the country tries to play to a game plan to get the most out of the players available against the particular opposition on any given day. The good managers/players adapt accordingly...when it works out its a stroke of genius and when it doesn't it's muck or the manager gets the blame.

I just don't subscribe to that train of though.

Plan A so far hasn't been too hot this season either!

hoping that we see wholesale changes in tactics etc for the championship game v down , like what happened last year.
this year hopefully it works!

don't think anyone wants plan b - if that's what was on show on sat night!
but a tweaked plan B (with some attempt to attack) might be ok

You're right Plan A this year hasnt worked either.
The point I was making was a more general one to cover the last number of years where we only had a plan A and no plan B (our plan A wasnt working then either), and at least now we are trying a plan B.
All I'm trying to say, is that its good to be able to adapt your style of play for different opposition, IMO.
I do think we would have executed Plan A (and Plan B) better if we had more of our first choice players available through the league, though whether or not that would have meant avoiding relegation I'm not so sure.
My biggest concerns now is how many of our first choice players will be fit for selection for the championship, can the team bed together in such a short timescale, do they have enough time to adapt to Plan A/B before then and probably most importantly what will the confidence levels be like coming into the championship given we dont have a single league win under the belt.

big problem right there...there's alot of club football to be played during the next 8 weeks !