DERRY V DUBLIN - ALLIANZ FOOTBALL LEAGUE FINAL

[Hill16 Blues]

Somehow you've managed to combine graciousness in losing, realism, whishfull thinking, blinkered vision topped off by the nonsense about Dublin cynism & fouling. Interesting post!

whatever about the rest- that's down to your own perspective.
however a lot of Dublin play today was somewhat cynical (Derry guilty of some too but way less than the dubs)

holding for brief moments in the tackle (and off the ball) , checking runs and some wrestling with Derry players off the ball - Lynch, Lynn and McFaul were on the receiving end in the first half from McCarthy, cooper and deveraux

I don't always watch the lay where the ball is- so I saw it.

it didn't and wouldn't have made a difference to the result imo - but a different ref would (an should) have black carded these incidents (for both teams).

so I am not making excuses for Derry.  I certainly thought Dublin was way way ahead and deserved a 30+ point win.
Only G OKane and at times F Doherty and C OBoyle acquitted themselves today.

my post, as with anything is subjective , but are my observations from todays game. like it or lump it.


As for OCarroll, a great full back, didn't have a great season last year, but was the best in the country the prev season.
was given a torrid 20 mins v cork until they fell asunder. looks like ocarroll on the way back to his best.

Opinions or whatever you need to read up on the rules re black cards. You very obviously don't know what is / isn't a black card.

Anyway best of luck in Ulster championship. Hope you put an end to JMCG once and for all.

[babarino]

...I don't get this 'Derry didn't turn up' nonsense! We were a division below last year, massively overachieved to get into the League Final and are only interested in winning Ulster! We are not near Dublin (and I suspect Kerry, Mayo et al will suffer similar fates this year) and do not expect to be. If we beat Donegal and get to an Ulster Final AIQF I'd be happy. Another 2 years. On current form would have us top 4!

Realistic summation of where Derry are at and where they should be aiming to go. While, from an Ulster perspective, disappointed that they didn't perform today, Dublin are by far the best squad in Ireland at the moment.

[lynchbhoy]

Somehow you've managed to combine graciousness in losing, realism, whishfull thinking, blinkered vision topped off by the nonsense about Dublin cynism & fouling. Interesting post!

whatever about the rest- that's down to your own perspective.
however a lot of Dublin play today was somewhat cynical (Derry guilty of some too but way less than the dubs)

holding for brief moments in the tackle (and off the ball) , checking runs and some wrestling with Derry players off the ball - Lynch, Lynn and McFaul were on the receiving end in the first half from McCarthy, cooper and deveraux

I don't always watch the lay where the ball is- so I saw it.

it didn't and wouldn't have made a difference to the result imo - but a different ref would (an should) have black carded these incidents (for both teams).

so I am not making excuses for Derry.  I certainly thought Dublin was way way ahead and deserved a 30+ point win.
Only G OKane and at times F Doherty and C OBoyle acquitted themselves today.

my post, as with anything is subjective , but are my observations from todays game. like it or lump it.


As for OCarroll, a great full back, didn't have a great season last year, but was the best in the country the prev season.
was given a torrid 20 mins v cork until they fell asunder. looks like ocarroll on the way back to his best.

Opinions or whatever you need to read up on the rules re black cards. You very obviously don't know what is / isn't a black card.

Anyway best of luck in Ulster championship. Hope you put an end to JMCG once and for all.

I'm a Qualified Dublin ref .....

Chill out man! The examples I gave mightn't have been great but don't go on the offensive if you encounter something you don't like! They may actually be correct!

Anyhow thanks and best of luck in championship to Dublin too!

I'd not be wishing ill on McGuinness or anyone though!  All good Gaa people with great passion and input into our great game!

[INDIANA]

I don't think O'Carroll is close to being the best FB in the country. A few I'd rate above him and more still I wouldn't be willing to rate any lower than him. Last year's All-Star was pretty clearly undeserving because he had a pretty poor year by his own standards.

You don't have anyone he'll be worrying about anyway come championship time. Rory is a class act and doesn't have anything to prove at this juncture.



Derry never turned up and I can't understand why.

A hell of a lot of players worry Rory.

He's a player who I've never understood why he's continually rated above other FBs when there's been too many occasions where he's looked shakey in defence for me to rate him that highly. High ball has unnerved him time after time in recent years, last year he was run ragged as many times as he played well.

He's fine on the front foot but I'd take a Caffrekey or a Shields every single time before him. It's the Barcalona syndrome. The backs are good footballers but average to above-average defenders and that is not what you want from someone people are lauding as the best FB in the country. When you can score as much as Dublin do it makes teams desperate and O'Carroll's errors rarely end up finding as much attention as they otherwise would.

Rory has never been roasted by anybody because he's a top class defender.

Its really that simple. When you mark Bernard Brogan every night in training the actual matches must be a doddle.

Rory was never shown in any system.

[Wildweasel74]

No matter how good Dublin were today Derry i honestly thought were pathetic, 3 or 4 players aside, the Derry supporters showed more fight with the the Monaghan crowd at the bar at the top of Jones road than Derry players did on the field. we conceded the short kick out the entire game, while our own short kickouts were overturned and lead to a number of Dublin score. Dublin were always coming strong in the first 15mins and Derry didnt slow it down or break the game pace by slowing the game. Tyrone wouldn't be creamed by 15 today. Some Derry fans find the score and result acceptable i don't, we gave away 3.17, Dublin kicked alot of wides and didn't break out of 2nd gear in all honestly. Thats the worst hammering we took sinceTyrone in the championship 2004

[imtommygunn]

I don't think O'Carroll is close to being the best FB in the country. A few I'd rate above him and more still I wouldn't be willing to rate any lower than him. Last year's All-Star was pretty clearly undeserving because he had a pretty poor year by his own standards.

You don't have anyone he'll be worrying about anyway come championship time. Rory is a class act and doesn't have anything to prove at this juncture.



Derry never turned up and I can't understand why.

A hell of a lot of players worry Rory.

He's a player who I've never understood why he's continually rated above other FBs when there's been too many occasions where he's looked shakey in defence for me to rate him that highly. High ball has unnerved him time after time in recent years, last year he was run ragged as many times as he played well.

He's fine on the front foot but I'd take a Caffrekey or a Shields every single time before him. It's the Barcalona syndrome. The backs are good footballers but average to above-average defenders and that is not what you want from someone people are lauding as the best FB in the country. When you can score as much as Dublin do it makes teams desperate and O'Carroll's errors rarely end up finding as much attention as they otherwise would.

Rory has never been roasted by anybody because he's a top class defender.

Its really that simple. When you mark Bernard Brogan every night in training the actual matches must be a doddle.

Rory was never shown in any system.

Hurley?

[babarino]

...the Derry supporters showed more fight with the the Monaghan crowd at the bar at the top of Jones road than Derry players did on the field....

Shite... I hate to miss a good row with the Derry wans.

[Wildweasel74]

well if u stopping shouting we dont take the queens pound you wouldnt have a problem, its funny your the only crowd to come out with this

[theticklemister]

Derry never stifled Dublins momentum whatsoever in opening half. Why did someone not go down and feign an injury and break up play? Why did the keeper not take longer with kickouts?

The speed the Dubs play is frightening. I would love to find out with speed endurance drills they do at training.

[Wildweasel74]

the keeper kept taking quick kickouts after a dubs point before the derry pair have even go out to midfield from tracking bck. it actually benefited Dublin  has they won these qucik kickouts and didnt slow down the game which we needed to do. Too much inexperience was shown there.

[ck]

I was at the games today. Dublin were excellent but up against a truly pathetic Derry side who hadn't an ounce of fight in them. It was one of the tamest performances I have ever seen, it was like they expected to to loose.
Monaghan out smarted a poor Donegal side, but unlike Derry at least they looked as if they card about loosing. Donegal can go on all the fancy foreign trips they like but their parked bus today had a fair few holes in it and is in bad need of repair. That's two bad cork park outings in a row for Donegal.
Monaghan were impressive.

[Crete Boom]

I don't think O'Carroll is close to being the best FB in the country. A few I'd rate above him and more still I wouldn't be willing to rate any lower than him. Last year's All-Star was pretty clearly undeserving because he had a pretty poor year by his own standards.

You don't have anyone he'll be worrying about anyway come championship time. Rory is a class act and doesn't have anything to prove at this juncture.



Derry never turned up and I can't understand why.

A hell of a lot of players worry Rory.

He's a player who I've never understood why he's continually rated above other FBs when there's been so many occasions where he's looked shakey in defence too often for me to rate him that highly. High ball has unnerved him time after time in recent years, last year he was run ragged as many times as he played well.

He's fine on the front foot but I'd take a Caffrekey or a Shields every single time before him. It's the Barcalona syndrome. The backs are good footballers but average to above-average defenders and that is not what you want from someone people are lauding as the best Full-Back in the country. When you can score as much as Dublin do it makes teams desperate and O'Carroll's errors rarely end up finding as much attention as they otherwise would.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I just find the above as bizarre. Particularly the high ball stuff - was it not a month ago when people were berating Mayo for throwing high ball in on top of him as it was meat and drink to him - as it is. The best full back I've seen since Darren Fay to break ball to his corner backs, always willing to link from defence and very sticky. Not flashy at all but that's why I like him.

As for Cafferky in comparison!! Jaysis lads, he's a good footballer but clearly a converted midfielder, and not just because Berno cleaned him last year. He's Mayo's Ross McConnell, a square peg forced into a round hole - well able to high field, but when it comes to the dirty, gritty stuff of sticking hand, boot or head in at the last minute, doesn't come close to Rory.

Rory is in a long line of Dub full backs that may not be the absolute greatest of all time, but are solid, dogged and reliable defenders.

I normally find myself agreeing with most that you say easytiger but I think you need to look at Caff play again sometime. His whole game is getting a hand/boot/head at the last minute and the weakest part of his game is high fielding so he tends to try and break the ball away from the player rather than catch it. He is a fellow clubman of mine and I have never seen him play midfield ever( maybe once in a senior hurling match). I have watched him since under 16's and he always played fullback although he filled in at CHB and wing back from time to time but has always been a specialised fullback. ( Don't let Syferus ramblings about football get in your head , he can cloud even a wise man's head at the best of times ).

I don't buy into this O'Carroll got an easy Allstar and I think him , Cluxton and Flynn are irreplaceable for the Dubs from my view looking in from the outside. He is a top class fullback. I do think Caff can be argued to be as good as him.Although obviously I am biased I don't think it's an outlandish argument to say he is as good a fullback as O'Carroll. Also I think it is a bit harsh to say Caff was roasted by Brogan last year as I thought our back six( plus flashes from Andy Moran) were the only thing that kept us in the final last year. It's awful hard to defend against even average forwards let alone the Dubs front six when your midfield( apart from maybe Seami O' Shea) and half forward line were wiped out for the majority of the game!!!

Sorry to hijack the thread with this though and well done today. I think Connolly is finally going to have a full season at 100% of his potential and that's a scary thought for the rest of us. Also fair play to Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin for the job they have done with O'Gara , it just shows what good coaching can do with a raw talent.

[Hound]

I normally find myself agreeing with most that you say easytiger but I think you need to look at Caff play again sometime. His whole game is getting a hand/boot/head at the last minute and the weakest part of his game is high fielding so he tends to try and break the ball away from the player rather than catch it. He is a fellow clubman of mine and I have never seen him play midfield ever( maybe once in a senior hurling match). I have watched him since under 16's and he always played fullback although he filled in at CHB and wing back from time to time but has always been a specialised fullback. ( Don't let Syferus ramblings about football get in your head , he can cloud even a wise man's head at the best of times ).

I don't buy into this O'Carroll got an easy Allstar and I think him , Cluxton and Flynn are irreplaceable for the Dubs from my view looking in from the outside. He is a top class fullback. I do think Caff can be argued to be as good as him.Although obviously I am biased I don't think it's an outlandish argument to say he is as good a fullback as O'Carroll. Also I think it is a bit harsh to say Caff was roasted by Brogan last year as I thought our back six( plus flashes from Andy Moran) were the only thing that kept us in the final last year. It's awful hard to defend against even average forwards let alone the Dubs front six when your midfield( apart from maybe Seami O' Shea) and half forward line were wiped out for the majority of the game!!!

Sorry to hijack the thread with this though and well done today. I think Connolly is finally going to have a full season at 100% of his potential and that's a scary thought for the rest of us. Also fair play to Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin for the job they have done with O'Gara , it just shows what good coaching can do with a raw talent.

Agree with every word of the above.


Dublin seem to be a bit ahead of everyone at the moment. Not sure the standard elsewhere is all that it might be. But even when Kilkenny were the dominant force in hurling, the odd time a Tipp, Cork or Galway would pop up with a big performance to beat them, so I'm sure the Dubs won't have things their own way all the time.

[Walter Cronc]

I was at the games today. Dublin were excellent but up against a truly pathetic Derry side who hadn't an ounce of fight in them. It was one of the tamest performances I have ever seen, it was like they expected to to loose.
Monaghan out smarted a poor Donegal side, but unlike Derry at least they looked as if they card about loosing. Donegal can go on all the fancy foreign trips they like but their parked bus today had a fair few holes in it and is in bad need of repair. That's two bad cork park outings in a row for Donegal.
Monaghan were impressive.

If a Sligo man (laughs) is going to start slagging at least get your grammar right!!

[ck]

I was at the games today. Dublin were excellent but up against a truly pathetic Derry side who hadn't an ounce of fight in them. It was one of the tamest performances I have ever seen, it was like they expected to to loose.
Monaghan out smarted a poor Donegal side, but unlike Derry at least they looked as if they card about loosing. Donegal can go on all the fancy foreign trips they like but their parked bus today had a fair few holes in it and is in bad need of repair. That's two bad cork park outings in a row for Donegal.
Monaghan were impressive.

If a Sligo man (laughs) is going to start slagging at least get your grammar right!!

Your definition of 'slagging' is different to mine. Above was my honest assessment of what I witnessed yesterday at Croker. Slagging would be a cheap loose argument like slagging a man about his grammar!