DERRY V DUBLIN - ALLIANZ FOOTBALL LEAGUE FINAL

[Syferus]

I don't think O'Carroll is close to being the best FB in the country. A few I'd rate above him and more still I wouldn't be willing to rate any lower than him. Last year's All-Star was pretty clearly undeserving because he had a pretty poor year by his own standards.

You don't have anyone he'll be worrying about anyway come championship time. Rory is a class act and doesn't have anything to prove at this juncture.



Derry never turned up and I can't understand why.

A hell of a lot of players worry Rory.

He's a player who I've never understood why he's continually rated above other FBs when there's been so many occasions where he's looked shakey in defence too often for me to rate him that highly. High ball has unnerved him time after time in recent years, last year he was run ragged as many times as he played well.

He's fine on the front foot but I'd take a Caffrekey or a Shields every single time before him. It's the Barcalona syndrome. The backs are good footballers but average to above-average defenders and that is not what you want from someone people are lauding as the best Full-Back in the country. When you can score as much as Dublin do it makes teams desperate and O'Carroll's errors rarely end up finding as much attention as they otherwise would.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I just find the above as bizarre. Particularly the high ball stuff - was it not a month ago when people were berating Mayo for throwing high ball in on top of him as it was meat and drink to him - as it is. The best full back I've seen since Darren Fay to break ball to his corner backs, always willing to link from defence and very sticky. Not flashy at all but that's why I like him.

Yeah, that is weird.  He mopped up all the high balls into Donaghy in  the second half against Kerry in the semi last year.

An U16 could mop up on Star the way he's played the last two and a half years.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

You must know some good u-16's so!

Just curious, can you give us some examples of particular games/opponents where O' Carroll has been dodgy under the high ball?  I can't say I've noticed it as one of his weak spots myself.

[Zulu]

Syferus give it up, O'Carroll is up there with the best and until Hurley in the league semi final I can't recall him being under significant pressure from any full forward. He gets a good deal less protection than many other full backs too so he does remarkably well.

[heffo]

Happy enough with that. Don't think Derry did themselves justice and either weren't interested or just didn't turn up.

[thewobbler]

Syferus give it up, O'Carroll is up there with the best and until Hurley in the league semi final I can't recall him being under significant pressure from any full forward. He gets a good deal less protection than many other full backs too so he does remarkably well.

Such a myth. In fact it's completely the opposite.

Dublin play counter attacking football. They are set with 2/3 forwards at most when  the opposition has the ball, and when they win it back, very rarely are those forwards supported by any more than 3 men. Consequently Dublin almost always have 8+ men in their own half. He's probably the most protected full back in Ireland as a result.

[Jinxy]

You must know some good u-16's so!

Just curious, can you give us some examples of particular games/opponents where O' Carroll has been dodgy under the high ball?  I can't say I've noticed it as one of his weak spots myself.

He's not dodgy under the high ball but he's susceptible to good accurate diagonal passes across the face of the square.
As is pretty much every fullback in the country.

[The Hill is Blue]

Great day to be a Dubs supporter - they were awesome today. However no real football lover would relish the manner of Derry's defeat. Their hammering was painful to watch. They must put this behind them immediately and focus on Ulster.

Well done again Dubs – you are legends in the making.

[lynchbhoy]

im outraged !
That game should have been played at a neutral venue - despite the players wanting to play in croker!
I mean, there was no way Dublin would have won or been as good and been faster to every ball and quicker all round if the game was in breffni, clones or navan !!
also the Dubs getting loads more money has obv affected the minds of the Derry players!
Not sure how I could argue this as it didn't hold true for kerry in the football and Kilkenny in the hurling and their domination for years - but we will have to think of a reason and factor it in somehow!

Dublin magnificent today.
Faster and first to every ball. Derry's young team froze! its what I feared. Players like Enda Lynn and Mark Lynch have been majestic in the entire league and no GAA player or sports player will play that well game after game all season in such a dynamic sport.
Derry will have learned a lot. OK I think Dublin have peaked a bit and got a few breaks today, but even without them they were way above Derry's level.
This will hopefully help bring this new team on.

Derry will now see that in defence they need to be tighter and not afford so much room and give too much respect to opposing forwards. Ways to stop maurading players running from deep must be practices. Drills on hand passing for any pass under 20-25 yards instead of kick passing needs to be done and hit home.
FF line needs to have more dynamic runs looking for the ball. shooting needs practice as there were 5 or six goal chances missed today - though Dublin were not flattered in the scoreline.
Defenders need to be out in front not letting opponents win the ball, then try to disposess them!
and a lot more.
A good lesson to be learned fro today and will stand us in good stead for Donegal game. they are in much the same boat as us and id be quite confident going into this game.
much prefer to have sean leo back as he was badly missed as expected.
Derry can learn a lot from how Dublin played today and if we do, id be very happy.
the venue or money made no difference in todays result. Again playing in a big pressure game, a final against the all Ireland champions was a good test and while we failed, there is a lot to be learned from this exp.
Congrats Dublin. Great side. Still a bit cynical on the tackling and imo fouling, but todays ref was lenient enough to both sides. Other refs might feck Dublin up more than opponents!

[Zulu]

Not a chance wobbler. Admittedly, I haven't see Dublin live but there is no way what you said is true. With 6 backs and 2 midfielders having 7 or 8 players in your own half is not above average but even then Dublin do not have that at all times. I remember in last years league final against Tyrone the camera was looking down the field and all you had in in the Dublin half was 2 Tyrone forwards and 2 Dublin defenders. Saying they have 8+ players in their own half most of the time is not true.

[screenexile]

Did Sheehan not give him a roasting in the last few years or is memory dodgy?

I don't get this 'Derry didn't turn up' nonsense! We were a division below last year, massively overachieved to get into the League Final and are only interested in winning Ulster! We are not near Dublin (and I suspect Kerry, Mayo et al will suffer similar fates this year) and do not expect to be. If we beat Donegal and get to an Ulster Final AIQF I'd be happy. Another 2 years. On current form would have us top 4!

[rodney trotter]

Dennis Glennon gave him a tough time last year in Leinster first round, as did Stephen Bray I think in the Leinster Final

[Hill16 Blues]

im outraged !
That game should have been played at a neutral venue - despite the players wanting to play in croker!
I mean, there was no way Dublin would have won or been as good and been faster to every ball and quicker all round if the game was in breffni, clones or navan !!
also the Dubs getting loads more money has obv affected the minds of the Derry players!
Not sure how I could argue this as it didn't hold true for kerry in the football and Kilkenny in the hurling and their domination for years - but we will have to think of a reason and factor it in somehow!

Dublin magnificent today.
Faster and first to every ball. Derry's young team froze! its what I feared. Players like Enda Lynn and Mark Lynch have been majestic in the entire league and no GAA player or sports player will play that well game after game all season in such a dynamic sport.
Derry will have learned a lot. OK I think Dublin have peaked a bit and got a few breaks today, but even without them they were way above Derry's level.
This will hopefully help bring this new team on.

Derry will now see that in defence they need to be tighter and not afford so much room and give too much respect to opposing forwards. Ways to stop maurading players running from deep must be practices. Drills on hand passing for any pass under 20-25 yards instead of kick passing needs to be done and hit home.
FF line needs to have more dynamic runs looking for the ball. shooting needs practice as there were 5 or six goal chances missed today - though Dublin were not flattered in the scoreline.
Defenders need to be out in front not letting opponents win the ball, then try to disposess them!
and a lot more.
A good lesson to be learned fro today and will stand us in good stead for Donegal game. they are in much the same boat as us and id be quite confident going into this game.
much prefer to have sean leo back as he was badly missed as expected.
Derry can learn a lot from how Dublin played today and if we do, id be very happy.
the venue or money made no difference in todays result. Again playing in a big pressure game, a final against the all Ireland champions was a good test and while we failed, there is a lot to be learned from this exp.
Congrats Dublin. Great side. Still a bit cynical on the tackling and imo fouling, but todays ref was lenient enough to both sides. Other refs might feck Dublin up more than opponents!

Somehow you've managed to combine graciousness in losing, realism, whishfull thinking, blinkered vision topped off by the nonsense about Dublin cynism & fouling. Interesting post!

[lynchbhoy]

Somehow you've managed to combine graciousness in losing, realism, whishfull thinking, blinkered vision topped off by the nonsense about Dublin cynism & fouling. Interesting post!

whatever about the rest- that's down to your own perspective.
however a lot of Dublin play today was somewhat cynical (Derry guilty of some too but way less than the dubs)

holding for brief moments in the tackle (and off the ball) , checking runs and some wrestling with Derry players off the ball - Lynch, Lynn and McFaul were on the receiving end in the first half from McCarthy, cooper and deveraux

I don't always watch the lay where the ball is- so I saw it.

it didn't and wouldn't have made a difference to the result imo - but a different ref would (an should) have black carded these incidents (for both teams).

so I am not making excuses for Derry.  I certainly thought Dublin was way way ahead and deserved a 30+ point win.
Only G OKane and at times F Doherty and C OBoyle acquitted themselves today.

my post, as with anything is subjective , but are my observations from todays game. like it or lump it.


As for OCarroll, a great full back, didn't have a great season last year, but was the best in the country the prev season.
was given a torrid 20 mins v cork until they fell asunder. looks like ocarroll on the way back to his best.

[Pangurban]

Dublin are simply a cut above the rest. Today was a reality check for Derry, but they are developing and heading in the right direction. Cant see them winning Ulster this year, its between Monaghan and Tyrone

[From the Bunker]

im outraged !
That game should have been played at a neutral venue - despite the players wanting to play in croker!
I mean, there was no way Dublin would have won or been as good and been faster to every ball and quicker all round if the game was in breffni, clones or navan !!
also the Dubs getting loads more money has obv affected the minds of the Derry players!
Not sure how I could argue this as it didn't hold true for kerry in the football and Kilkenny in the hurling and their domination for years - but we will have to think of a reason and factor it in somehow!

Dublin magnificent today.
Faster and first to every ball. Derry's young team froze! its what I feared. Players like Enda Lynn and Mark Lynch have been majestic in the entire league and no GAA player or sports player will play that well game after game all season in such a dynamic sport.
Derry will have learned a lot. OK I think Dublin have peaked a bit and got a few breaks today, but even without them they were way above Derry's level.
This will hopefully help bring this new team on.

Derry will now see that in defence they need to be tighter and not afford so much room and give too much respect to opposing forwards. Ways to stop maurading players running from deep must be practices. Drills on hand passing for any pass under 20-25 yards instead of kick passing needs to be done and hit home.
FF line needs to have more dynamic runs looking for the ball. shooting needs practice as there were 5 or six goal chances missed today - though Dublin were not flattered in the scoreline.
Defenders need to be out in front not letting opponents win the ball, then try to disposess them!
and a lot more.
A good lesson to be learned fro today and will stand us in good stead for Donegal game. they are in much the same boat as us and id be quite confident going into this game.
much prefer to have sean leo back as he was badly missed as expected.
Derry can learn a lot from how Dublin played today and if we do, id be very happy.
the venue or money made no difference in todays result. Again playing in a big pressure game, a final against the all Ireland champions was a good test and while we failed, there is a lot to be learned from this exp.
Congrats Dublin. Great side. Still a bit cynical on the tackling and imo fouling, but todays ref was lenient enough to both sides. Other refs might feck Dublin up more than opponents!

So what was the story with your boys back in Celtic Park? Did Dublin send up a 'B' Team that ye beat? I'm not saying ye would have beaten Dublin today if it was played anywhere else. They are a damn good side! Have been for 4 plus years now (they were good before that just did not have the serious silverware)! Its a serious handicap that will be more enhanced over the summer as Dublin have more games at home and the rest of us have to wait until August to have a look at the place if we are lucky enough to get that far! Anyway, at least now ye know how far away you are from the standard bearers and to get closer you have to be in Croker in August be it by front door or back door and get as many games there as you can. Anything less with be failure (as you well know).