Paddy O'Rourke Out!

[DuffleKing]

That is v true actually ck - Donal Murtagh, for example, was rejected outright by the players as a management option and then presented, after weeks of ttawling, as the assistant manager.

[Aoise]

I'm not a big poster but would come on alot to read people's opinion's.  On this issue however I feel I have to post.

There are a few issues that don't sit well with me regarding Armagh football.

1 - We won an All-Ireland in 2002!  This had the potential to create an even broader base for GAA within the county than ever before.  I saw it for myself.  Suddenly, going into town you were met with a sea of orange.  I felt at the time that this would be a great opportunity for our County Board to get into the schools properly, organise and tap into that swell.  It was there for the doing.  But it didn't happen!  Instead I stood back and watched Tyrone fulfill all the discussions I had had with various Armagh people as to what we would love to see happen in Armagh, particularly in our underage structures.  Tyrone showed us how to do it both on a practical and organisational level.  The swell has now dissipated!  Why was this allowed to happen?

2 - We had a debacle over the correct management team to be put in place a few years ago, with a native Armagh man overlooked.  Now I want to state at this juncture that I feel POR to be an honourable gentleman.  I'm not even comfortable with the title of this thread regarding a GAA member.  However, this does not mean that these issues can be ignored!  Someone else on here is defending the CB to the hilt.  And whilst I take your point that it is clubs who nominate CB reps, I still know that this is completely sown up.  How much power does the ordinary club man have when it comes to democratic decisions - not alot.  And I would take a wild guess and say that due to the fact CB decisions are made in private, how in the name of God is a club member supposed to understand how much their club rep has had influence in the decision making process at board level.  Just a question, is there even any list detailing who each clubs reps are and who makes up the CB?  Because bar a few I genuinely don't know who's in it!

3 - The thing I found most upsetting on Saturday was not the defeat, but the manner by which it happened.  Without disrespecting any player it was obvious that there was no passion or fight in that Armagh team.  Now in my opinion, this aspect of a teams psyche emanates directly from the management.  If things aren't right there it shows - and it did.  The main characteristic of of that 2002 team was the willingness to fight to the last second - thats what I took pride in.  Look at Kildare, not blessed with the most gifted footballers but have the mark of our 2002 team, and thats why they are now in a quarter final.  Its nearly 10 years since we won that final.  Are our CB seriously telling us that from that entire panel of players and backroom squad, there's no-one within our county to take the lead or could do a better job than POR?  Have these questions ever been put to them - oh thats right we'll never know!  And they're talking about another year - God help us!  But sure they'll wait a while till the dust settles and then quietly announce in a Tuesday Irish News that POR has decided to stay on and what'll we do? absolutely nothing.  Cause its been done so many times before! 

4 - Does anyone else get the distinct impression that politics and not football is whats motivating our administration?  Let the CB go to its members, right down to club level and get they're opinions - do it the right way or else let the clubs themselves decide.  At least this would give us some transparency.  Or else we'll just keep making hidden decisions like those which settled upon the name for our new county ground!  It all would really make you wonder!!!!!

[Aoise]

Sorry also meant to ask where can club members access the CB minutes of meetings?  Surely these are documented as would be required from any board with membership?  Can someone let us know where these can be accessed?

[tevez]

Aoise best post on here in a long time. Wonder if anyone can answer your questions.

[PAULD123]

Like most people, I presume, I rarely get through long posts (despite writing quite a few myself!!) But I have to say it was a pleasure to read such a well structured and intelligent post as Aoise's.

But I have to say that on the whole the people of any county board do give up a lot of time and are dedicated people. Sometimes they make bad decisions, sometimes they make selfish decisions, they will always enjoy their we spot of wining and dining when times are good. But in general they all are there because they think they can do some good. It is very much a damned if you do and damned if you don't position.

[regal]

I dont know Paddy O'Rourke but he gives me the impression he is an honest, decent gentleman. I feel sorry that it hasn't worked out for him or armagh during the last 2 years. I believe the coaching set up was forced on him and a new manager should at least be allowed to select his own management team. Unlike many of the candidates who were mentioned before and will be mentioned again the next time there is a vacancy, I would doubt Paddy made many financial stipulations on taking the job. There appears to be a lot of mystery over who is pulling the strings in armagh football and Paddy is proabably another victim of this. Hopefully Paddy will offer his resignation and Armagh can move on.

Armagh are no longer a top 8 team but they have a lot of good footballers. With the correct appointment the future could be bright. We need a manager who will instill discipline, determination, a gameplan and committment. I would think the vast majority af armagh supporters would love to see McGeeney take over but I dont think he would work in the environment that POR and PMcD have worked in. I hope I'm wrong. If not McGeeney, there would still be excellent options such as Grimley / McAlinden / McGrane / AO'Rourke / McEntee.

Anyway, possible line up for next years championship:

McKinney
Mallon Donaghy McKeown
McKenna McKeever Dyas
Toner Lavery
O'Rourke McDonnell McParland
Clarke RClarke Forker

[Applesisapples]

Sorry also meant to ask where can club members access the CB minutes of meetings?  Surely these are documented as would be required from any board with membership?  Can someone let us know where these can be accessed?

Aoise,
I take many of the points you are making. I would also concur with other posters that most of the voluteer members of the CB/Executive have the good of the County and Armagh football at heart. They can and do make mistakes. In relation to the make up of the County Board. It is decided at the County AGM. Every club in the County is entitled to two votes at an AGM and as far as I know each member of the outgoing executive also has a vote. Each Club committee should instruct it's delegates how to vote and who to vote for at an AGM. The CB encourages each club to hold its own AGM before the County AGM therefore the Club can take decisions on motions, elections etc... So theoretically each Club member can have a say. But it is democracy and so the majority will win out. Politics do come into play, both internal club politics and interclub/divisional board politics. It is possible for each club member to propose and see through a motion or get someone elected. I would suspect that many of those on here complaining about disenfranchisement don't even pay there full club subs toe entitle them to vote, happy to pay social memberships because its cheaper. To get something over the line can very often involve lobbying which most of us are too lazy to do, so the CB does it for us. This does not take away our rights or ability to effect change.

[Applesisapples]

Should also have said that all minutes are circulated to clubs and any member would be entitled to a copy.

[naka]

.POR has got much criticism on these boards, however the point that is often overlooked is that Paddy had a desperatly poor backroom team.

i felt sorry for paddy an honourable GAA man and  the title tothis thread reflects poorly on the discussion board .
for what its worth I think we are an average side with probably 6 good inter county pros( am, ak, stevie,donaghy cmckand toner), by this i mean guys you can depend on week in week out,
so far charlie, , mor, dyas,etc havent yet arrived and mightnt do so and it is unfair on jamie to place some much pressure on him in his first  full season.
Paddy has said he will do whatever the county board asks of him and I for on think that in itself is an acknowledgement that he is skating on thin ice we should put in a 3 year plan to allow jamie, dyas ,mc kenna, hanratty cumiskey( from silver bridge)mc parland and geough who is playing well for shamrocks to develope.
my choice is an older head to allow us to develop with oisin and mc entee assisting, that older head to beone of--mc shane, mc alinden or peter raffertry

[armaghniac]

i felt sorry for paddy an honourable GAA man and  the title tothis thread reflects poorly on the discussion board .

Indeed. Perhaps tevez might change the title to "Armagh management and strategy" or the like?

In relation to Aoise's points. Armagh has had more underage success since 2002 than it had in the 40 years before that, so the situation is not quite a loss in this respect. And on Saturday I thought there were positives in Armagh's first half performance, they showed a sense of urgency that was often lacking. The soft goal really killed the game and meant that in the second half the gap was going to be too much.

There is talk of McAlinden, but the U-21s went out in the first round in the last 2 years, and with a minor win two years ago you would expect that if there is talent coming through that more progress might have been made.

Should also have said that all minutes are circulated to clubs and any member would be entitled to a copy.

One word. Web.

[Applesisapples]

i felt sorry for paddy an honourable GAA man and  the title tothis thread reflects poorly on the discussion board .

Indeed. Perhaps tevez might change the title to "Armagh management and strategy" or the like?

In relation to Aoise's points. Armagh has had more underage success since 2002 than it had in the 40 years before that, so the situation is not quite a loss in this respect. And on Saturday I thought there were positives in Armagh's first half performance, they showed a sense of urgency that was often lacking. The soft goal really killed the game and meant that in the second half the gap was going to be too much.

There is talk of McAlinden, but the U-21s went out in the first round in the last 2 years, and with a minor win two years ago you would expect that if there is talent coming through that more progress might have been made.

Should also have said that all minutes are circulated to clubs and any member would be entitled to a copy.

One word. Web.

if you are talking about the county website it is crap...but thats another story.

[Aoise]

Apples, thanks for your post, it was very informative!

I think your point regarding those that are willing to criticise but will do nothing themselves is very much justified, however, the point still remains that the workings and the politics of the Armagh CB is still seen by many to be overly covert and very much ignorant of the ordinary GAA members viewpoint.  They could have put in place ways to rectify this if they are confident of they're procedures i.e. Putting minutes on website, putting decisions out to clubs etc...  There as been much criticism of this board in the last number of years yet the status quo remains.  I would like to hear more from the CB in future especially if they are considering continuing this course!

Also regarding membership of the CB - is there a list of executive members anywhere?  Is this on the official website - genuinely don't know this.  I realise that they are volunteers, but volunteers with our football structures in their hands which in relation to whats important to us places quite a bit of power at their door.  More accountability is called for and things should be done and explained more in the open!  I am a member of 2 boards (business and social) on a voluntary basis.  We cannot scratch ourselves without it being documented on and reported upon - even though we are voluntary! so being voluntary does not excuse bad practice in my opinion.  Maybe this is all being unfair on the CB - but as they've never voiced their concern or made their feelings known publicly, we'll never know!

[here comes 6]

When will it be made offical that POR is gone

[naka]

When will it be made offical that POR is gone

there should be no decision  on any footballing or hurling  matters when Armagh are still in with a chance of bringing silverware to the county in both codes, football( minors) hurling ( the u21s)

[crossfire]

I dont know Paddy O'Rourke but he gives me the impression he is an honest, decent gentleman. I feel sorry that it hasn't worked out for him or armagh during the last 2 years. I believe the coaching set up was forced on him and a new manager should at least be allowed to select his own management team. Unlike many of the candidates who were mentioned before and will be mentioned again the next time there is a vacancy, I would doubt Paddy made many financial stipulations on taking the job. There appears to be a lot of mystery over who is pulling the strings in armagh football and Paddy is proabably another victim of this. Hopefully Paddy will offer his resignation and Armagh can move on.

Armagh are no longer a top 8 team but they have a lot of good footballers. With the correct appointment the future could be bright. We need a manager who will instill discipline, determination, a gameplan and committment. I would think the vast majority af armagh supporters would love to see McGeeney take over but I dont think he would work in the environment that POR and PMcD have worked in. I hope I'm wrong. If not McGeeney, there would still be excellent options such as Grimley / McAlinden / McGrane / AO'Rourke / McEntee.

Anyway, possible line up for next years championship:

McKinney
Mallon Donaghy McKeown
McKenna McKeever Dyas
Toner Lavery
O'Rourke McDonnell McParland
Clarke RClarke Forker

I hope that you are not the next Armagh manager.