DUBLIN V ARMAGH sat 17th @ 5.00pm croke park

[Hound]

fecking hell hound - Andrews was on all of 6 minutes !

Indeed. He had one decent chance for a point, and made a poor effort, leaving it short. But on replay I noticed that even in the limited time available he did a couple of other positive things, chasing back and getting a good tackle in, and carried the ball well and drew a free.

[never kickt a ball]

That's the Orangemen over for another year then:

http://bbc.co.uk/i/t2czm/

[nrico2006]

Armagh were only beat by 3 points at the weekend, which would maybe suggest that although they are poor Dublin are not far ahead of them.  Armagh generally seemed to lack the footballers, none of their players apart from Stevie McDonnell seem like they have the confidence or the actual ability to strike a ball accurately over the bar from anywhere inside 40 metres, which was particularly evident towards the end when an Armagh man had the ball maybe 30 yards from goal and instead of shooting he handpassed to a team mate, who did the same and the third fella also did this too.  These 3 short handpasses were unnecessary and on any decent team it would have been stroked over the bar first time.

There seems to be a few cumbersome and slow players in the Armagh team that actually have little ability to be honest, with the wing forward Swift being one of the most limited players I have seen in a long time in an Armagh jersey - what exactly is he there to offer?  He has no speed, kicking ability or creativity, and seems to lack mobility as well.  Brian Mallon does not look like a player up to inter-county football either.  What happened to the fella McKenna from Crossmaglen who played Midfield for them during their last All Ireland success?  He seemed to be a great player in the making, one in the Sean Cavanagh mould with his surging runs from the middle.  As a lot of posters have said already, Armagh need to ditch the type of footballer that is far too frequent in their side at the minute (the Swifts, Mackins and Laverys etc), and bring in natural footballers who have a bit of pace and sharpness.

[BerfArmagh]

what are you drinking??? Swift I thought was one of the better performers on saturday, indeed he has probably been in the top 3 performers for us all season you clown. That said saturdays performance was very disappointing. Armagh were dreadful and should have been beaten by a lot more. For young lads, the lack of pace and pedestrian movement of the ball was unbelievable. They were so labored, and with stevie well marshalled we had no options. I have been very disappointed in armaghs last 3 performances we have reverted fromt he exciting football played int he league final to the negative conservative blanket defense, to play that type pof game you need fellas who can run

1. Why were armagh players so easily dispossessed
2. Why did they keep running the ball into contact
3. why was the finishing so poor
4. Why did they not look fit
5. How did vincie martin stay on the field, he was appaliing

Its time to blood teh like of tasker, mc kenna next year... this can't go on

The only person who came out of yesterdays game with any credit was hearty

[Bensars]

The Dubs done what they had to do. Progression at this stage is the important factor not the manor. Would fancy them to progress against Louth. It will be difficult for Louth to raise it again.

As for Armagh, the glory days of Ulster finals and later stages of the All Ireland series are finished for a while anyway. Mindboggling how far such a team have gone back. The gameplan isnt there and although some scored other than  Mc Donnell they were more as a result of circumstance. They looked lethargic and laboured.

One moment summed it up for me in the first half. Morriarty got the ball on the sideline and the corner back busted a gut to provide the inside support. Instead of playing the ball into the space to the supporting man he  stops, slows the play down, turns inside and plays a ball backwards. 

With the Armagh minors taking a whipping in the Ulster minor final too it was a bad week all around for Armagh

[eireogatron]

slightly off topic, but relevant to an earlier discussion re. Armagh's HF line. People were mentioning that not many counties nowadays have scoring lines outside the FF line - which I disagree with. The top 3 teams in the country have players scoring from HB, MF and HF. Tyrone, Kerry and Cork are blessed with great players but I feel its the attitude of their respective managers that yields the scores and therefore - the results. Yesterday Tyrones FF line registered just 3 points - 2 from frees. The rest of the team contributed 1-11 with all but 1 point coming from play.

This is the NEW blueprint for gaelic football IMO and until the likes of ourselves and Dublin develop a scoring threat from outside the FF line neither will be dining at the top table for a long while yet. If B Brogan has a bad day the Dubs are screwed - just like we were on Saturday when Stevie's radar was on the blink.

More footballers please, less spoilers.

[maddog]

what are you drinking??? Swift I thought was one of the better performers on saturday, indeed he has probably been in the top 3 performers for us all season you clown. That said saturdays performance was very disappointing. Armagh were dreadful and should have been beaten by a lot more. For young lads, the lack of pace and pedestrian movement of the ball was unbelievable. They were so labored, and with stevie well marshalled we had no options. I have been very disappointed in armaghs last 3 performances we have reverted fromt he exciting football played int he league final to the negative conservative blanket defense, to play that type pof game you need fellas who can run

1. Why were armagh players so easily dispossessed
2. Why did they keep running the ball into contact
3. why was the finishing so poor
4. Why did they not look fit
5. How did vincie martin stay on the field, he was appaliing

Its time to blood teh like of tasker, mc kenna next year... this can't go on

The only person who came out of yesterdays game with any credit was hearty

Firstly well done Dublin
I thought McKeever had a good game too in fairness. Nippy did ok and has a future on the team. I said it before and i will say it again, play some guys that play as half forwards for their clubs. Its f**king obvious to me so why not to Armagh management.

[brokencrossbar1]

You have to wonder sometimes what people want from a team?  Armagh beaten by Dublin in Croke Park by 3 would have been acceptable 3 months ago and I think that the season as a whole needs to be accessed rather than just a single match.

Hearty re established himself as reliable keeper, consistent kicking and more assured, defence as a whole ok with duffy and mc keever playing reasonably well and donaghy growing each year, Mallon had an iffy year but form is temporary as the saying goes. Finn mo is a good player but hasn't been great, martin I'm not sure if he is talented enough. Certainly would have Shannon or Paul mc keown in front of him. Dyas still a bit green and should have had a full year at club football before stepping up. 

MF is a worry. Toner and Lavery never established themselves through injury. I also don't think they compliment each other.  Toner is the pick of the two ability wise but would need a different type of player beside him.  Maybe if Titch mc Kenna gets back to himself he could be that player.

In the forwards is where the real problem is.  There is too little fluidity.  As many have said there is too much needless handpassing and too much taking the ball into contact.  Very rugby league style.  Mackin is not the required standard, vernon needs a lot of coaching, I never agreed with AK in the forward line as he is better attacking from deep. Swift has been a positive as has jamie.  Forwards need to score though and there isnot enough from the forward line.  I still think the like of franny and feeney have a part to play but there needs to be a more direct style of football.  Ronan Clarke has to come back and that will provide a greater focal point in the attack.

A few personnel changes, a few positional changes and there could be a strong team.  With the like of tasker, mc verry, grugan coming through and it is not all doom and gloom.

I reckon that this team will develop next year in Div 1 and what should happen is that the younger lads need to be given their head. Also certain more established players like Mallon and vernon need to step up.

Hearty

mallon. Donaghy. Mckeown

AK. Mckeever. Duffy/moriarty

toner. Mc kenna

vernon. B mallon. Swift

stevie. R Clarke. J Clarke   

[regal]

Time to look forward to next year.

1 - hearty or mcevoy
2 - a mallon
3 - b donaghy
4 - p mckeown
5 - p duffy
6 - c mckeever
7 - k dyas
8 - j lavery
9 - k toner
10 - a murnin
11 - r clarke
12 - g swift
13 - j clarke
14 - s mcdonnell
15 - s forker

[imtommygunn]

I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.

Armagh had no ideas and in particular no HF line. Dublin played a man in front of the FB line and all Armagh could do was lump high ball in there. Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8'' - there was no sense to it. The ball was continually carried into tackles because there was no movement - none. Stevie and Jamie were double teamed. I would have little confidence in a manager sending out a team playing like this to be honest.

The thing is Armagh have some strong individuals. How collectively they are so bad is beyond me. I thought Swift did ok in HF but I'd guess he's not a natural half forrward. Kernan should be in half back.

Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.

The biggest thing that struck me in that match, and a few I have watched this year, is that a lot of managers seem to struggle to play against the sweeper system. Stevie and Jamie Clarke were effectively being double teamed. Why could they not go conventional 3 mand FF line to negate the spare man? Dublin's spare defender scored more than the forward he was supposed to be marking which said a lot. Had they negated that spare man Clarke and McDonnell could have made hay.

BC there may have been 3 points in it against a Dublin team but make no mistake about it - this is a bad bad Dublin team. I'd be surprised if there has ever been a worse Dublin team. If they have any say in where Sam goes I'll be very surprised.

[mountainboii]

Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8''

He won't be a kick in the arse off six foot in fairness. Like Colm Cooper, because he's a bit wiry people tend to underestimate his height.

[imtommygunn]

Oh - doesn't look it.

Most of what he got kicked in was aimless high ball and he had to scrap for it.

[ardchieftain]

Have the dark days returned already ? The vibe i got was one akin to the mid 90's when you went to watch Armagh more for the day out, with little or no expectation of victory. It was depressing and now that the dust has settled, it still is depressing.

Many of you here have pointed out the problems.
1/Our style of play
2/several players short in terms of quality
3/the management - and this is not a knee jerk reaction - i don't think they have a clue what they're doing
4/ We lack leaders - many of you don't seem to understand this but the evidence speaks for itself. players fist passing backwards and then breathing a sigh of relief says it all really

It's time to blood the young talent. i know it's risky throwing young lads fresh out of minors in at the deep end but needs must i'm afraid.

[Hound]

I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.

Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.

But bear in mind the quality of the rest of the country. There is going to be at least one relatively poor team in the semis! And even the 3 good teams don't play well all the time.

Griffin is a long term injury casualty, if fit he would have been playing and would have been captain. Barry Cahill was playing (17) - he hasn't reached the heights of previous seasons, although he improved on his earlier performances.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

I watched this game as a neutral and I could not believe what I was watching. It was hard to believe how poor the two teams were.

Armagh had no ideas and in particular no HF line. Dublin played a man in front of the FB line and all Armagh could do was lump high ball in there. Jamie Clarke must be 5'7'' or 5'8'' - there was no sense to it. The ball was continually carried into tackles because there was no movement - none. Stevie and Jamie were double teamed. I would have little confidence in a manager sending out a team playing like this to be honest.

The thing is Armagh have some strong individuals. How collectively they are so bad is beyond me. I thought Swift did ok in HF but I'd guess he's not a natural half forrward. Kernan should be in half back.

Dublin were not much better and their only saving grace was Bernard Brogan. There has to be better footballers in Dublin than some of those boys on that pitch. Keaney, Barry Cahill and Griffin should be on that team. Some of the players on are very mediocre.

The biggest thing that struck me in that match, and a few I have watched this year, is that a lot of managers seem to struggle to play against the sweeper system. Stevie and Jamie Clarke were effectively being double teamed. Why could they not go conventional 3 mand FF line to negate the spare man? Dublin's spare defender scored more than the forward he was supposed to be marking which said a lot. Had they negated that spare man Clarke and McDonnell could have made hay.

BC there may have been 3 points in it against a Dublin team but make no mistake about it - this is a bad bad Dublin team. I'd be surprised if there has ever been a worse Dublin team. If they have any say in where Sam goes I'll be very surprised.

Armagh played a spare man at the back as well which was why they had the 2 man full forward line and can you imagine what Brogan would have done without the spare man being back in front of him???

Barry Cahilll started, Griffen is out with a knee cruciate injury for the year and Keaney I believe had a knock