Antrim Hurling

[Minder]

One of the drills though Skull was the players throwing the ball gently up in the air for his partner to catch from a standing position whereas Galway were sprinting 20 yards to receive a ball before putting the ball over the bar. You would have to ask questions of who is responsible for their preparation

[slow corner back]

Just listening to the game on Galway fm. Twelve minutes into the second half and we are already 17 points down. No disrespect to anyone but are we ever going to "catch on" that we are clearly out of our depth at this level. We have limited resources probably 40 Hurlers to pick from and among them only five have any substantial class.

The fact is this. We can not blame management or the players because our resources are so small. Continuous bickering between club and County could be resolved if we would ever use common sense and not enter the Liam Mc Carthy. Play club Hurling and play it often. Let us enjoy the game again. Excuse my language but f##k this County s##t after 120 years of humiliations when is enough enough. Antrim would be best advised to give Waterford a walk over and leave it at that. How horrable and demorilising these results are for Antrim people.

There are as many hurlers in the county now as there were in the late eighties/ early ninetes when we were a force at national level. There are as many hurlers now as there were in 2002/3 when we came very close in two all ireland quarter finals. If we started off with the forty huirlers you mentioned treated them all equally trained the all up to the physical level required and instilled the appropriate discipline in the squad then we would not be suffering 20-30 point hidings on a regular basis. As recently as 2006 Jingo sent out a team in div 1 of the league who out of five matches won two lost two by less than a goal and only suffered one bad defeat all season. What was Jingos reward? The sack! You reap what you sow, its called Karma as Earl would say.

No harm to you slow corner back but you are clearly delusional and a dreamer if you think Antrim Hurling was ever a force. But I shouldn't accuse you of something that I clearly was myself. After years of being at the wrong side of some horrible thrashings  I would consider myself now more of a "realist". It lets these painful humiliations more acceptable to take. If you want to talk a bout our great team in the late 80's because of a one game win against Offaly, well then we really are scrapping the barrel. If the championship then was the same format as today there would be no way Antrim would have made the final that year. 

The two quarter finals you talk a bout we lost to Tipperary by 10 points. I suppose that in itself is considered a success for us. Better than 20 or 30 points. We should have beaten a weakened Wexford team but for some woeful decisions by the officials. Lets remember though that this was a Wexford team In serious decline.

I do agree with you on jingo and lets not forget humpy that both men were royally shafted.

After coming so close with two good minor teams and instead of aiming for a good run at under 21 level we decided to throw our best youngsters in to the highest grade of Hurling. Where there confidence is being totally destroyed against stronger Senior opposition. Not to mention burn out and injuries.

I really have to put my hands up and be honest and say that after years off thumping's  I can't stomach it anymore. It puts me in very bad form. Especially when you love Hurling so much. I really believe that after today, if people are not convinced a bout Antrim competing in the Liam Mc Carthy then I think there isn't much hope for you.  Just play club Hurling for Christ's sake.

Just on a point of historical note, although I agree with a lot of what you post, 1986 ran Cork to 5 points in an all-ireland semi final,1987 ran Kilkenny to 4 points in an all-ireland semi final, 1988 lost to Tipp in all ireland semi by 7 it was considered a bad result at the time? Also that year gained promotion to an eight team Div1 and kept our place in that Div through to about 1995 reaching national league quarter final twice. 1989 got to an all ireland final 1991 lost by two points to the Cats. Then lost ulster final to a very good down side in 1992, by 1993 the main players, humpy cloot sambo etc were getting on a bit and lost heavily to the cats after leading at half time. Since then it has been generally downhill however we were a decent team in that time period otherwise we would not have survived in an eight team Div 1 for so long. Remember the days when loosing by 7 or 8 points was considered a bad result? If we had lost by eight today we would have been told we had turned the corner...

[Baile an tuaigh]

Just listening to the game on Galway fm. Twelve minutes into the second half and we are already 17 points down. No disrespect to anyone but are we ever going to "catch on" that we are clearly out of our depth at this level. We have limited resources probably 40 Hurlers to pick from and among them only five have any substantial class.

The fact is this. We can not blame management or the players because our resources are so small. Continuous bickering between club and County could be resolved if we would ever use common sense and not enter the Liam Mc Carthy. Play club Hurling and play it often. Let us enjoy the game again. Excuse my language but f##k this County s##t after 120 years of humiliations when is enough enough. Antrim would be best advised to give Waterford a walk over and leave it at that. How horrable and demorilising these results are for Antrim people.

There are as many hurlers in the county now as there were in the late eighties/ early ninetes when we were a force at national level. There are as many hurlers now as there were in 2002/3 when we came very close in two all ireland quarter finals. If we started off with the forty huirlers you mentioned treated them all equally trained the all up to the physical level required and instilled the appropriate discipline in the squad then we would not be suffering 20-30 point hidings on a regular basis. As recently as 2006 Jingo sent out a team in div 1 of the league who out of five matches won two lost two by less than a goal and only suffered one bad defeat all season. What was Jingos reward? The sack! You reap what you sow, its called Karma as Earl would say.

No harm to you slow corner back but you are clearly delusional and a dreamer if you think Antrim Hurling was ever a force. But I shouldn't accuse you of something that I clearly was myself. After years of being at the wrong side of some horrible thrashings  I would consider myself now more of a "realist". It lets these painful humiliations more acceptable to take. If you want to talk a bout our great team in the late 80's because of a one game win against Offaly, well then we really are scrapping the barrel. If the championship then was the same format as today there would be no way Antrim would have made the final that year. 

The two quarter finals you talk a bout we lost to Tipperary by 10 points. I suppose that in itself is considered a success for us. Better than 20 or 30 points. We should have beaten a weakened Wexford team but for some woeful decisions by the officials. Lets remember though that this was a Wexford team In serious decline.

I do agree with you on jingo and lets not forget humpy that both men were royally shafted.

After coming so close with two good minor teams and instead of aiming for a good run at under 21 level we decided to throw our best youngsters in to the highest grade of Hurling. Where there confidence is being totally destroyed against stronger Senior opposition. Not to mention burn out and injuries.

I really have to put my hands up and be honest and say that after years off thumping's  I can't stomach it anymore. It puts me in very bad form. Especially when you love Hurling so much. I really believe that after today, if people are not convinced a bout Antrim competing in the Liam Mc Carthy then I think there isn't much hope for you.  Just play club Hurling for Christ's sake.

Just on a point of historical note, although I agree with a lot of what you post, 1986 ran Cork to 5 points in an all-ireland semi final,1987 ran Kilkenny to 4 points in an all-ireland semi final, 1988 lost to Tipp in all ireland semi by 7 it was considered a bad result at the time? Also that year gained promotion to an eight team Div1 and kept our place in that Div through to about 1995 reaching national league quarter final twice. 1989 got to an all ireland final 1991 lost by two points to the Cats. Then lost ulster final to a very good down side in 1992, by 1993 the main players, humpy cloot sambo etc were getting on a bit and lost heavily to the cats after leading at half time. Since then it has been generally downhill however we were a decent team in that time period otherwise we would not have survived in an eight team Div 1 for so long. Remember the days when loosing by 7 or 8 points was considered a bad result? If we had lost by eight today we would have been told we had turned the corner...

Yes, Antrim did run top class opposition closely. But that was over 20 years ago. Hurling has evolved a lot since then and it is played now at a phenomenal speed. Watch any old tapes of Antrim and you will see the difference in standard.

So going by that logic, anybody under the age of 25 will never have seen Antrim run top teams close. That's a whole generation. The way we are going is two steps forward three steps backwards.

We have all to rack our brains together and devise a solution. What I would propose is: Continuation of the Ulster club league and forget the County league. It will benefit everyone in the province. Keep the nine County Ulster Championship but instead of an Antrim team a North Antrim and a South Antrim team. Beg the GAA to let us enter the Liam Mc Carthy as an Ulster select. It would bring nothing but positives to Hurling.   

[clootfromthe21]

The shylocks in the Antrim Cunty Board wouldn't allow it Baile an tuaigh. I agree totally and have argued the very same case myself. Lets not forget that this is not the first Antrim team to have got this type of pasting. More focus on developing club coaching standards (as are being done in N Antrim) and providing more regular matches at senior with a focus on improving standards all the time.

Have to question the County Board in all of this.......can someone tell me where their voice of leadership is in all of this. The way we do things needs to change....but try telling that to "admin" on the Antrim website and see how you get on

To be fair, Skull, I think you are being a little harsh on the County Board here. Now, first up, I have no brief for the County Board. However, no matter how annoying the administrator who responds to messages posted on the official website can be at times, you can't seriously expect that person to allow a lot of the stuff that gets posted up. Just take a look at some of the stuff we discuss here (and that's highbrow compared to Hoganstand and a few others). There is no way that the official County Board site can or will engage in a discussion about Liam Watson being kicked off the panel for playing soccer the week before Antrim's biggest game of the year. That's just not going to happen.

I know that you (or someone using your name!) has posted a couple of times about coaching on the official website (and I've just about agreed with everything that person has said) and been knocked back by the admin along the lines of "go to your club secretary" or "raise it with your club". To be honest, the responses by admin can be annoying, but on the other hand, this man or woman is typically dealing with people who don't use their own names and are curing all the county's problems behind a key board. But on the other hand, simply writing these things on the County's message board isn't going to sort them out – it has to be done through the clubs by committed people taking the thing on themselves.

To be honest, I'm pretty impressed with the current County Board at one level. Prior to the present, we've had a succession of County Boards with no vision or ambition whatsoever. Traditionally, we have had the most conservative, unimaginative, hidebound county board in Ulster who simply ran off club competitions and sent out county teams to defeat year after year. Now we appear to have a county board that is at least starting to move forward with development squads, coaching officers, the centre of excellence and fund raising. I'm saying this as someone currently based outside the county but on a macro level, there seems to be a bit of forward movement. As for the micro, I'm sure there is usual conflicts, petty dictators etc, but you are going to find those in any organization and in particular in an organization that, by and large, is run by people giving of their own time.

Again, (and I emphasise I hold no brief for the man), but I think McSparran is doing a very good job. To me, his main weaknesses are a.) he seems to be too sensitive to criticism (he's the public face of the GAA admin in Antrim and is always going to get stick from someone – its just part of the job) and b.) in a trait he shares with one half of the dynamic duo that are managing our county, he seems sometimes too ready to talk to the media. Finally we have someone in charge who is prepared to push things forward. The Centre of Excellence is, well, an excellent idea in circumstances where there always seems to be complaints about a lack of training positions. Fundraising has been given a new professionalism. There appears to be much more accountability about what is going on and where money is spent (just think of the way thing were in the past).

So where to now after that thumping from Galway?

Well, I think we have to look inwards at our own standards. At the minute, we have 3 clubs that have a chance to win the Senior Championship. That has been the position (with the exception of Rossa's win a couple of years ago) for nearly 20 years. That can't be allowed to continue. We have to drag other clubs up to the standard of Dunloy, Loughgiel and Cushendall. Belfast, in particular, has to be "exploited" much better than it is now. What about Belfast-only development squads?

More concentration on underage teams, both club and county, has to be the way forward. I nearly cried when I heard that Derry had beaten us in the Ulster under 21 final. Here we were with the product of our two good minor teams and with a great shot of getting to an All-Ireland final with a semi against Dublin and we get bloody ambushed by Derry. Typical friggin arrogance that it was only Derry. Antrim aren't in a position to be arrogant about anybody. Is there a case for splitting the senior and under 21 management?

Proper coaching has to be the answer. But while the County Board has to put in place methods whereby people who want to coach get good training, the coaching has to come from with in the clubs themselves – it can't be imposed from above.

[Minder]

I know we can talk about improving structures, standard of coaching etc but another thing that struck me, not just today, is a lot of our players do not have the physique to play top level inter county hurling. The Galway players were far more athletic, pacey and every time there was a 50/50 challenge the Antrim player was put on his hole. If i hear another player extolling the "great strength and conditioning work Tommy Stevenson is doing" i will cry ! When you go through that Antrim team there is very little pace, midfield in particular was over run today because their midfileders were continually driving forward at pace. In fairness to the two Karls they were not getting much help from the half forward line. Cormac Donnelly looked like the only one that could hold his own in a physical battle and he is far too young.

[Two Hands FFS]

Good post Cloot.

Minder agree with you as regards to the senior team having no pace. It wasnt just midfield...our half line (which is meant to be the most important line on the pitch) was terrible. Yes physically Hippy is strong but he cant hardly move at all. I'm not blaming him as too much pressure is being placed on him at his age. You have to have a bit of pace as well

Good performances from McGarry, Graffin & Karl Stewart...some of the few to give their all.

[bannside]

The Galway warm up at Casement was only a pulse raiser compared to the full on warm up they done earlier at Rossas pitch.

We got about ten minutes of hurling today for our £15, and the second half will go down as the biggest hammering in modern day c`ship hurling. Think we lost the second half alone by twenty points.

Hurling has moved on, and particularly strength and pace. Good hurlers arnt enough any more, you need to be as strong as a bull, with olympic sprint pace, and speed and reflexes of a march hare.

A programme to get you close to this level would take at least two/three years, and thats just the physical side. Tommy Stevenson cant do that in a couple of months. That is a process starting at approx 19/20, and should be completely separate from on the pitch training, skills, tactics etc. Horses for courses as they say.

Without doubt S/W moved too soon. Two or three more years bringing their team through the slow frustrating bulking up process was needed, but only with some sort of guarantee that they could keep their squad together as a development squad, from co board. Too late now for that.

Going forward, no point in nailing the management. They have no control over three bad injuries, a honeymoon, and the antics of Winker. With all that in place we could have got to within ten points and fooled ourselves once again that we arnt a mile away.

Truth is, under the circumstances S/W have faced, WHO could have done any better on the line, when we were asking what amounted to a development squad to face a resurent tribe.

Truth is harder questions have to be asked. Are our development squads good enough? Are we doing enough in schools? Have we enough full time coaches? Where is the response from Belfast. We f**king ridiculed the St Johns management to the core, MJ in particular, and yes he did step over an important line, but Christ I wish there were ten more men like him in Antrim, his mis-demeanour exempt.

Dr John to take note that for all the good things happening,(credit given for that) we MUST look now to underage development, and I say that as a football man mostly who saw a SW u-15 team beat a full Derry team in Maghera last Saturday.

Otherwise his potentially rich legacy will be spoiled by disasterous parallel performances from senior hurlers and footballers during his tenure.

The natives are getting restless, and the Saffron Sweep tickets will be ten times harder to sell next year unles the good Doc can put some kind of positive spin on what has been a truly disasterous month for both codes.

Cross as a bear.

[Trouble Ahead]

Jesus Lads,

We are all talking about warm-ups and the noticeable differences between the two teams. FFS get real it never was and will never be until this county makes massive investment in its team managers. Jody comes cheap, as he has other jobs!!! Sambo and woody are the same. The Docs problem is  simple, he paying for the sins of previous County Chairs and lack of finance!! Where did all the money go? Has anybody asked these questions?

The centre of excellence is a wonderful idea and we should have one, but that is long term. We have the strength at club level in both codes, we are always there or there abouts in all senior club championships! Why does in not follow through?

Because we get CHEAP IDIOTS that cannot make it anywhere else. Take the money from the SSweep for the next 2-3 years and purchase expertise for both Codes, look at  Wicklow, etc etc a fraction of the clubs that we have! Christ it takes investment. With this success the crowds will return, the money in the gates will increase, we will win back support and pride and the SSweep will increase its sales 3 fold, and for once antrim supporters will have something to be proud of! As Clubs, Players, supporters the County Exec needs to be held accountable!! Drop the petty differences and come together to put a stop the embarrassment, your driving kids and supporters to other sports or out of the association!!!!

[bannside]

The centre of excellence plan is going to suck up any possible resources we have for the next 5 years. There wont be any money for  paying managers with succesful pedigrees and proven track records.

After S/W, and Jody, I will bet anything you like our board will turn to ROGY and WHITEY.

[Minder]

So if we had Brian Cody things would be different? Utter bollocks. So the answer is to throw a pile of cash at some sort of Mick O Dywer type evangelist,they then leave after three years and we are back to square one. . . . . . . . Never worry about club structures or league set ups,standard of coaching. Its obvious S & W promised a lot more than they delivered but getting a high paid manager isnt the answer

[orangeman]

im just depressed after that. cant understand how a team can change so much over a 10 half time break.

It's quite simple - Ireland rugby teams ( when they had poor teams ) were always able to get themselves up for about a half of the match - but class always tells in the end ! No shame - Galway are a great side.

[slow corner back]

So if we had Brian Cody things would be different? Utter bollocks. So the answer is to throw a pile of cash at some sort of Mick O Dywer type evangelist,they then leave after three years and we are back to square one. . . . . . . . Never worry about club structures or league set ups,standard of coaching. Its obvious S & W promised a lot more than they delivered but getting a high paid manager isnt the answer

If we had brian cody we would not be winning all - irelands but we would not be suffering 20-30 point hammerings either. A top class manager can get a team fit, organised and with a well thought out gameplan. However without three our four players with the x factor the top prizes wil not come. I do not think we should splash a fortune, if we had it, on an outside manager. However I do not think this allows current management a bye ball for poor preparation, no gameplan and abysmal man management.

[Two Hands FFS]

Things could get worse. Away to Waterford in the qualifiers on Saturday. Anyone running a bus??

[Minder]

Is it away? I thought they were deciding the venue tomorrow. Glenariffe lost today by a point in Corrigan to the dual forces of St Johns and Garrett Duffy. . . . . . I can just about accept an incompetent ref but not a dishonest one.

[Minder]

i think i saw him in cleaning the bogs out after the game . . . .