Antrim Hurling

[theskull1]

[theskull1]

See the Shamrocks vs Johnnies last night in the minor championship hasn't a result against it. I assume there's a reason why 

[Milltown Row2]

See the Shamrocks vs Johnnies last night in the minor championship hasn't a result against it. I assume there's a reason why 

Shit reception in Loughgiel, might be in later .... Who was on duty??

[btdtgtt]

Where did the conveyor belt start?

Schools.....

The approach to hurling in schools north & south is black and white but it's more complex than that.
- parents encourage kids/pupils
- coaches assigned from county not left to teachers
- funding from external sources
- meaningful competitions
The days of hero teachers driving hurling are no longer possible as their hands have been tied - it's a bigger picture now. The dynamic in schools have changed towards sports provision - hurling has not changed to take account of this.

A friend of mine on the board of governors of a North Belfast catchment school constantly laments the lack of interest by teachers in taking hurling and football teams. Most of them former players themselves. As any teacher who has had a job in the real world will tell you, for many of them it's a part time occupation where they manipulate the system to suit themselves. They have no concept of a days work.
Despite encouragement from the principal they simply can't be arsed. If CB bolstered by clubs dont step in, colleges hurling is on the decline,but with already stretched funds how sustainable is that..
Unless there is a dream team coming through of course, they'd all want into that photograph.

I'm afraid you are way off the mark.
This is the difference I alluded to when I look at Waterford schools hurling.
Teachers are exactly that - teachers.
If you want hurling to progress via the schools - then hurling bodies like county boards etc must step in.
This has been realised long ago - especially in urban Dublin.
Expecting teachers have the resources or opportunity to bring schools hurling to a level that promotes the county game is quite frankly nonsense. Those days are gone, and long ago.
If you believe teachers can throw a tracksuit on after a day's work and waltz on to a hurling field with a wealth of resources to produce vibrant teams and competitions - then you are living so far in the past and away from reality - that I'm not surprised the Waterford's and Dublin are miles away from that thinking and hurling!

The Johnnies Loughgiel minor game sounds ominous

[Saffron71]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

[btdtgtt]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

Precisely. We should be grateful teachers give one second on top of their job towards hurling on top of their jobs not deriding them. We praise those for underage effort in clubs - a teacher giving up time is a greater sacrifice.
Would we be expected to stay late in work and clean the office windows?
I agree - the sacrifice of those you mention is fantastic effort.

But the reality is that looking to teachers to fulfill this hurling role is an abdication of the duty of hurling bodies! For too long they've stood aside or run a token blitz. If Antrim want schools to be hurling nurseries they must take it seriously themselves.
This has long been the case in other hurling counties and I'm baffled as to why anyone would think otherwise in Antrim of all places.

What is the anticipated outcome of the johnnies & shamrocks minor game situation?

[Last Man]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

Precisely. We should be grateful teachers give one second on top of their job towards hurling on top of their jobs not deriding them. We praise those for underage effort in clubs - a teacher giving up time is a greater sacrifice.
Would we be expected to stay late in work and clean the office windows?
I agree - the sacrifice of those you mention is fantastic effort.

But the reality is that looking to teachers to fulfill this hurling role is an abdication of the duty of hurling bodies! For too long they've stood aside or run a token blitz. If Antrim want schools to be hurling nurseries they must take it seriously themselves.
This has long been the case in other hurling counties and I'm baffled as to why anyone would think otherwise in Antrim of all places.

What is the anticipated outcome of the johnnies & shamrocks minor game situation?

I'll take a punt that you might be in some way aligned with St.Marys, CPC or possibly even St.Louis but my opinions come from a sub - elite hurling perspective. I see provision of GAA sport, in particular hurling in Co.Antrim catholic schools as part of their pastoral care provision. Why would GAA members within the school not look to promote the aims of the association? I just dont get it.
Lets say 15 weeks out of 40 week(approx) working year GAA men within our schools offered 3 hours a week to promoting hurling. Doesn't feel like much pain in my world especially if your vocation is to make a difference.

[Last Man]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

Spot on. Mickey Dallat was one of the worst teachers in CPC and it was clear that teaching was near the bottom of the priority list, hurling and especially Mageean was top priority. Does anyone really think Herron, Kearney and Cassidy are there for their stellar teaching ability but they'll be good enough for good kids to get decent grades AND pick up some medals along the way.

You are papering over the cracks citing these examples. There are young players who's parents won't send them to these schools if they won't reach their potential academically. A substantial cohort not exposed to structured colleges hurling in their formative years. In reality what is happening now is that there is less chance of a young player with academic strength making it through to elite level.
Maybe that's part of the plan? who knows? a step down the road to professionalism??

[paddyjohn]

See the Shamrocks vs Johnnies last night in the minor championship hasn't a result against it. I assume there's a reason why 

Heard this morning that the game was abandoned. Rumour is that Young McKenna struck out and a free for all started. Game was abandoned.

[theskull1]

I'm sure Mickey Dallat will be chuffed to bits Tony 

Schools GAA offers kids a opportunity to compete along with school mates who play with other clubs. If the talent's there, the kids themselves sense the opportunity and can get a lot from the competitions played especially if the can get down south and compete well there. This is particularly important for talented kids from 'weaker' clubs or who play for weak teams and can be great to part of something positive and sustain their interest. Having a strong senior school team creates a great vibe in a school. It was certainly the case with St Louis and I'm sure effect is not lost on the school management team.

If the talents not there, I don't believe schools in general are particularly good at developing skills/confidence in weak players and make them better as a result of the coaching that takes place there. Thats left very much to the clubs. So a bit like a county team, a school benefits from the quality of coaching delivered by clubs. A committed club coach needs to do 3-4 times as much with a player (most of it improving technique) so its easy to work out, time and effort reaps rewards (if the motivation is there to keep at it)

What last man is talking about is a school that regardless of the talent there will do didily squat with them.

[btdtgtt]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

Precisely. We should be grateful teachers give one second on top of their job towards hurling on top of their jobs not deriding them. We praise those for underage effort in clubs - a teacher giving up time is a greater sacrifice.
Would we be expected to stay late in work and clean the office windows?
I agree - the sacrifice of those you mention is fantastic effort.

But the reality is that looking to teachers to fulfill this hurling role is an abdication of the duty of hurling bodies! For too long they've stood aside or run a token blitz. If Antrim want schools to be hurling nurseries they must take it seriously themselves.
This has long been the case in other hurling counties and I'm baffled as to why anyone would think otherwise in Antrim of all places.

What is the anticipated outcome of the johnnies & shamrocks minor game situation?

I'll take a punt that you might be in some way aligned with St.Marys, CPC or possibly even St.Louis but my opinions come from a sub - elite hurling perspective. I see provision of GAA sport, in particular hurling in Co.Antrim catholic schools as part of their pastoral care provision. Why would GAA members within the school not look to promote the aims of the association? I just dont get it.
Lets say 15 weeks out of 40 week(approx) working year GAA men within our schools offered 3 hours a week to promoting hurling. Doesn't feel like much pain in my world especially if your vocation is to make a difference.

You need to change your thinking on schools hurling - your traditional view (like mine) might be one of the old Christian Brothers or stalwart teacher and hurling promotion etc.
Schools are different organisation nowadays - and teaching is a different job
Personally my nephews are at two different Belfast post-primary schools.
And I compare this to my experience and friends in Waterford.
Look at your points this way;
- don't link the GAA to Catholic schools, it demeans our games.
- GAA members who are teachers may well wish to promote the aims of the association - as I said before it as been taken away from them to a great extent. Not their choice!
- Pastoral care in schools is such a deep legal issue - hurling is not part of it. Sport is extra-curricular.
- 3hours per week you mentioned, my partner teaches and hasn't the time to deliver adequate lessons in many instances. Yet you think 3hours per week is getting plucked out of thin air. What about the time they already spend in their club and their family on top of their job. Suppose someone put 3 hours per week on your job? Just think about it.
- The vocation is to make a difference? Yes, but making a difference in education - not hurling.

But all of this misses the real point.
We are talking about hurling here - not teachers!
We have people in specific roles and responsibilities to promote hurling - hell we have people actually paid to do it!
So by for some baffling reason pushing teachers on it - why don't we get those who are actually paid to do the job to do it!
This is where Waterford and Dublin models (that I know of) differ so much.
Get the County bodies and paid coaches to get into the schools - then you can talk about hurling and time spent and promotion of the aims! I fail to understand what's complicated - other hurling counties have long since went down this road. I took a day off work last year to go watch the Godson hurling. It turned out it was a blitz in Boucher Road where they played the same teams over and over again - no medals, no referees - but a certain individual paid to run this?! This was promoting schools hurling?!
This is the real focus - or should be - of driving hurling development in schools! It's as plain as day!

So when we talk about promoting schools - lets get the focus right.
And on that point - my original post actually referred to primary schools
By after the age of 11 I think the ship has sailed for many!

By the way Tony Baloney - I'm not sure Dallat or Cassidy will be impressed by your evaluation of their teaching ability!

I'm back north for the next fortnight and hoping to see some games - and then back for more championship fixtures.
Things don't look good at Corrigan in either the results or minor & senior discipline front - how's that going to progress PaddyJohn?
It will be interesting to see who is on the pitch come the Dall's defence of the volunteer cup. Where will the biggest challenge come from?

[Last Man]

Teachers can't be arsed taking hurling after school you say? Tell that to the PE staff in CPC and St Mary's.  Winning a mageean means more to some of them than their pupils achieving high A level and GCSE results.  Therefore these teachers devote more of their time into taking hurling sometimes than to their teaching of exam PE.  If you say there is no passion for taking hurling after school then your wrong.

Precisely. We should be grateful teachers give one second on top of their job towards hurling on top of their jobs not deriding them. We praise those for underage effort in clubs - a teacher giving up time is a greater sacrifice.
Would we be expected to stay late in work and clean the office windows?
I agree - the sacrifice of those you mention is fantastic effort.

But the reality is that looking to teachers to fulfill this hurling role is an abdication of the duty of hurling bodies! For too long they've stood aside or run a token blitz. If Antrim want schools to be hurling nurseries they must take it seriously themselves.
This has long been the case in other hurling counties and I'm baffled as to why anyone would think otherwise in Antrim of all places.

What is the anticipated outcome of the johnnies & shamrocks minor game situation?

I'll take a punt that you might be in some way aligned with St.Marys, CPC or possibly even St.Louis but my opinions come from a sub - elite hurling perspective. I see provision of GAA sport, in particular hurling in Co.Antrim catholic schools as part of their pastoral care provision. Why would GAA members within the school not look to promote the aims of the association? I just dont get it.
Lets say 15 weeks out of 40 week(approx) working year GAA men within our schools offered 3 hours a week to promoting hurling. Doesn't feel like much pain in my world especially if your vocation is to make a difference.

You need to change your thinking on schools hurling - your traditional view (like mine) might be one of the old Christian Brothers or stalwart teacher and hurling promotion etc.
Schools are different organisation nowadays - and teaching is a different job
Personally my nephews are at two different Belfast post-primary schools.
And I compare this to my experience and friends in Waterford.
Look at your points this way;
- don't link the GAA to Catholic schools, it demeans our games. I mean this in the loosest possible sense, where the school population is not generally hostile to GAA
- GAA members who are teachers may well wish to promote the aims of the association - as I said before it as been taken away from them to a great extent. Not their choice! I can only reference a local example where a principal has encouraged greater engagement by qualified staff, even incentives but to no avail. I accept this may not be universal
- Pastoral care in schools is such a deep legal issue - hurling is not part of it. Sport is extra-curricular. The ethos of the GAA is not exclusively sporting and should not be promoted as such. how about schools promoting work/life balance, how pupils can use sport to escape the stresses of study in a structured way. Promoting the value of volunteerism, team work, community activism.
- 3hours per week you mentioned, my partner teaches and hasn't the time to deliver adequate lessons in many instances. Yet you think 3hours per week is getting plucked out of thin air. What about the time they already spend in their club and their family on top of their job. Suppose someone put 3 hours per week on your job? Just think about it. Nationally employed Inter county players more often than not work in education, are all the other teachers carrying those guys? I suppose the old adage may still appy."If you want something done ask the busiest man"
- The vocation is to make a difference? Yes, but making a difference in education - not hurling. Have a look at any school web site and how they place so much emphasis on pastoral care, look it up, hurling/GAA can clearly be part of this. However many teachers are not fulfilling their vocation in this area

But all of this misses the real point.
We are talking about hurling here - not teachers! Many teachers could do more, thats my opinion.
We have people in specific roles and responsibilities to promote hurling - hell we have people actually paid to do it!Yes we do but schools dont give a shite nor do Teachers promote it from within, how will any traction be gained otherwise
So by for some baffling reason pushing teachers on it - why don't we get those who are actually paid to do the job to do it!
This is where Waterford and Dublin models (that I know of) differ so much.
Get the County bodies and paid coaches to get into the schools - then you can talk about hurling and time spent and promotion of the aims! I fail to understand what's complicated - other hurling counties have long since went down this road. I took a day off work last year to go watch the Godson hurling. It turned out it was a blitz in Boucher Road where they played the same teams over and over again - no medals, no referees - but a certain individual paid to run this?! This was promoting schools hurling?!
This is the real focus - or should be - of driving hurling development in schools! It's as plain as day!

So when we talk about promoting schools - lets get the focus right.
And on that point - my original post actually referred to primary schools
By after the age of 11 I think the ship has sailed for many!

By the way Tony Baloney - I'm not sure Dallat or Cassidy will be impressed by your evaluation of their teaching ability!

I'm back north for the next fortnight and hoping to see some games - and then back for more championship fixtures.
Things don't look good at Corrigan in either the results or minor & senior discipline front - how's that going to progress PaddyJohn?
It will be interesting to see who is on the pitch come the Dall's defence of the volunteer cup. Where will the biggest challenge come from?

[btdtgtt]

Sounds to me your issue is with teachers
They are a crabbed enough lot with you telling them their job.
Stick to the hurling agenda.

Some radio silence on the johnnies v loughgiel minor game 
Not good from any perspective.

Anyone any thoughts on the senior championship?

[Milltown Row2]

Sounds to me your issue is with teachers
They are a crabbed enough lot with you telling them their job.
Stick to the hurling agenda.

Some radio silence on the johnnies v loughgiel minor game 
Not good from any perspective.

Anyone any thoughts on the senior championship?

Jesus lad, just tell us what happened that you know without dancing round it??

[paddyjohn]

It's amazing what you can hear in the chippy on a Sunday evening. One neutral described it "as a disgrace but sure the johnnies get away with everything now Donnelly is in charge"..

As far as the senior championship goes, I think it's going to run the same last the last few years and it'll be Cushendall or Loughiel. Not sure how Cushendall will cope without McManus, Shane & Graffin. Is Martin Burke fit again? also Karl McKeegan & Natty are 2 big misses off the bench.