Antrim Hurling

[Brocky]

Sometimes we run with the pack and when everyone's saying the same thing its very easy for it to become a truth. When I looked at the game again on TV as honestly as I could, and there's just too many poor decisions that didn't go St Louis way both in terms of not getting frees and being blown for soft/non frees. The balance of poor decisions made by the ref (bad calls either way to be expected) was heavily loaded against them. I'd be fairly sure it was subconscious decision making on the referee part but it was biased refereeing none the less. Just enough to tip the balance whilst not being too obvious. Very easy to get a 4-6 point swing. Actually the semi final referee was as bad only St Louis were just too good to be affected but him that day. Munster Team, Munster Venue, Munster Referee  .  When your out hurling on the biggest day of your life and you can see the ref's against you, I can see how a young mind (and hence performance) can be affected negatively. They had to work so much harder to get their frees. I know they'll harness the hurt in the right way and be stronger for it.

You quote st louis were too good in the semi - that was the problem in the final. They never played to their full potential at all, they couldn't handle the CHB, and didn't get the ball into the danger men enough. It was a close call but I don't think the ref should be blamed. If they had of played to the standard they can then the ref wouldn't have come into it.

[theskull1]

My reference to them being too good was relative to the opposition they played that day. On Monday the opposition was a much sterner test. Tactically and physically they were better equipped than their semi final opponents. A refereeing decision here or there or as I've also mentioned a wide or poor fumble was going to make a difference . All those factors played a part yes, but I for one feel the referee had an undue affect on the outcome. I've watched the game twice and I'm stating what I see. Yes I know sore loser

[north_antrim_hound]

Sometimes we run with the pack and when everyone's saying the same thing its very easy for it to become a truth. When I looked at the game again on TV as honestly as I could, and there's just too many poor decisions that didn't go St Louis way both in terms of not getting frees and being blown for soft/non frees. The balance of poor decisions made by the ref (bad calls either way to be expected) was heavily loaded against them. I'd be fairly sure it was subconscious decision making on the referee part but it was biased refereeing none the less. Just enough to tip the balance whilst not being too obvious. Very easy to get a 4-6 point swing. Actually the semi final referee was as bad only St Louis were just too good to be affected but him that day. Munster Team, Munster Venue, Munster Referee  .  When your out hurling on the biggest day of your life and you can see the ref's against you, I can see how a young mind (and hence performance) can be affected negatively. They had to work so much harder to get their frees. I know they'll harness the hurt in the right way and be stronger for it.

You quote st louis were too good in the semi - that was the problem in the final. They never played to their full potential at all, they couldn't handle the CHB, and didn't get the ball into the danger men enough. It was a close call but I don't think the ref should be blamed. If they had of played to the standard they can then the ref wouldn't have come into it.

We could see saw back and forth for the next year on positional strengths and other factors
For instance I could say to you
That CBS couldn't handle St. Louis corner forwards but that doesn't give them the licence to try and pull their arms of
You could say there no 12 was man of the match and I could say that he scored one point from play in normal time and the rest of his scores where from dubious frees
But no one is going to win that long winded argument
so Imm going to try and put it one sentence for you
St Louis where the better team, CBS where a better team than the semi final opponents hence an impartial ref was paramount for St Louis to come out on top but alas we will never know as that wasn't the case

Intresting first post Brocky are you an Antrim man yourself.

[Brocky]

My point really is, in Antrim we tend to look for some one to blame instead of looking at the real reasons. Not all the time but this match is the perfect example. Why do we not point out the obvious that we didn't perform. It would improve the Hurlers if they had a proper debrief telling them where they went wrong and what they should have done instead of blaming the ref.
It's simple you need to be good enough on the day that the ref can't influence the match. No matter who you're playing

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Im not sure about that. you can play as well as you want but if i ref is going to be petty and blow you up for over carrying in one instance yet allow the opposition to get a few extra secs you start to question whether its going to be your day or not.

St Louis missed the chances, thats true but did the ref beat them? no. did he give frees more handy to the other team at times? maybe.

It doesnt help matters when your playing a munster team, have to travel to a home venue more or less and have a ref from munster as well. 3 factors in their favour before the balls threw in.

I wonder why Eamon hasson from Derry wasnt considered. Why couldnt we have an ulster ref?

[Milltown Row2]

Im not sure about that. you can play as well as you want but if i ref is going to be petty and blow you up for over carrying in one instance yet allow the opposition to get a few extra secs you start to question whether its going to be your day or not.

St Louis missed the chances, thats true but did the ref beat them? no. did he give frees more handy to the other team at times? maybe.

It doesnt help matters when your playing a munster team, have to travel to a home venue more or less and have a ref from munster as well. 3 factors in their favour before the balls threw in.

I wonder why Eamon hasson from Derry wasnt considered. Why couldnt we have an ulster ref?

Jesus a Lienster venue and Ref would have been the obvious choice for all concerned, surely

[north_antrim_hound]

You can understand the venue as it was scheduled there for both finals and tg4
So if a Munster team qualify then that's just good fortune
But a Munster ref to - come on

We are dwelling on the ref in the first match for obvious reasons but the ref in the second final had a great game He even yellowed a player for trying to win a free and was spot on. All the lads round me where remarking how come we didn't get him
Both southern teams I know but still credit where it's due

[Brocky]

Why continually blame the ref, venue etc... Surely the best thing any of us can do is take care and change the things we can control and forget about the things we can't.  Sure even the St louis manager said he wouldn't change the venue.
To me this is one of the things we as a county are bad at. Change the fundamental problems instead of looking for excuses then we might get somewhere.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

i watched the second match and the man of the match full forward actually stuck his knee into the full backs chest and got a yellow for it. I would of thought that was violent play and warranted a red? MR2 you would know better?

I agree that a neutral ref should of been appointed. Very silly that they appointed a munster ref.

[north_antrim_hound]

i watched the second match and the man of the match full forward actually stuck his knee into the full backs chest and got a yellow for it. I would of thought that was violent play and warranted a red? MR2 you would know better?

I agree that a neutral ref should of been appointed. Very silly that they appointed a munster ref.

He had a good game
The number 14 you mentioned ( what a player ) tried to go down when he reached the box but the ref was having none of it
I can't think of one bad call

I forgot to mention one of the linesmen in the first match was a tipp ref- unreal

[theskull1]

Why continually blame the ref, venue etc... Surely the best thing any of us can do is take care and change the things we can control and forget about the things we can't.  Sure even the St louis manager said he wouldn't change the venue.
To me this is one of the things we as a county are bad at. Change the fundamental problems instead of looking for excuses then we might get somewhere.

Yes Yes ... we all know this to be the proper way to behave. You're an impartial observer so its much easier to take this dignified view.
If Antrim played and got beat by a point in All Ireland final after not playing to their potential making unforced errors which ultimately cost them, a biased refereeing performance would also form a large part of the post game discussion if it was considered to be a factor in them losing the game. Are you saying (assuming your a passionate supporter) you would ignore it and make no reference to it?

[Brocky]

I would most likely make reference to it. But why do we not discuss the things that went wrong with the performance rather than what we can't control. For example the lack of performance from the big players. the lack of tactics from the sideline taking care of the CHB.
No doubt a referee can have an effect on the game but from what I see the most successful teams look after their own performance and gear up so that nothing else can stop them from achieving their goal.

[north_antrim_hound]

I would most likely make reference to it. But why do we not discuss the things that went wrong with the performance rather than what we can't control. For example the lack of performance from the big players. the lack of tactics from the sideline taking care of the CHB.
No doubt a referee can have an effect on the game but from what I see the most successful teams look after their own performance and gear up so that nothing else can stop them from achieving their goal.

Agree on some of the performance of our bigger players and the influence of the CHB
And the sideline to a certain extent
There spare man was obviously having a bigger influence than ours
Our no14 should have have been moved out earlier and his shooting was a bit off key for him
I thought SLG biggest problem was the three wides at the start of the 2nd half
All valid points but the biggest influence was the man in the middle
When St Louis tried to get some momentum going he disrupted it and brought CBS back into it
St. Louis looked like a team that if given the protection and right calls where going to get better as the game progressed
When a official is clearly pushing you down then it has an adverse effect on performance and confidence
What's your thoughts on the score deficit for the soft frees  awarded and the lack of frees for SLG and the penalty not given etc
To numerous to mention here
Your asking us not to dwell on the decisions and completely focus on the performance
Sorry I can't do that this time as  CBS made plenty of blunders to

[theskull1]

I would most likely make reference to it. But why do we not discuss the things that went wrong with the performance rather than what we can't control. For example the lack of performance from the big players. the lack of tactics from the sideline taking care of the CHB.
No doubt a referee can have an effect on the game but from what I see the most successful teams look after their own performance and gear up so that nothing else can stop them from achieving their goal.

Are CBS discussing what went wrong with their performance? No. They hit a lot of wides and could have conceded a few more scoreable frees/penalties if they were 'spotted' by the referee but that matters not a jot now to them.
Would they have been discussing what went wrong today if the referee had given a more even handed performance. I believe they would. Not every team that has won big finals have played out of their skins. When you win not a single player or bad decision is to blame.

[paddyjohn]

Jeepers lads.. They got beat, ref was rubbish, they hit wides and made mistakes!