Antrim Hurling

[aontroim abu]

Haven't really had a chance to debate this, but I'm more than fed up with how the 'clubs' change this every time, leagues one year championship the next, two up in the league or two down, round robin championships, playoffs in the leagues, group stages championships ffs!!! I reckon I could go on but it really is daft, never going to please anyone but thats the way it is......

As for changing it this year cause it upset the gate money in the glens, well that just speaks volumes. While it may have been a 'lopsided' draw in the snobs view it was a massive chance for clubs like ourselves, Sarsfields, Gales Cloughmills all actually thought they had a chance to reach a county final, for some that would have been their first time... We achieved that and while we didn't cover ourselves in glory, we (played no worse that the losers of the final the year before btw) got that monkey off our backs.

To continually change it offers nothing in my view.... getting your own house in order seems to be the main chat from the 'establishment' and looking after their own, well after this years Ulster championship final I'd say some teams in Antrim would really need to sort out their own house before telling the minnows to do so.

+1

[btdtgtt]

I hate to point it out to you all but this moving to a cship for an all Ireland run/chsip victory seems to be a city thing....................

Glenarrife?

Does anyone really think there's a system to assign teams to championships which will be to everyone's agreement?
There will always be teams in-between grades and will move over years.
This debate happens in every county!

And like I said - I think we should be more concerned with the future of hurling at Hannahstown as not many up there believe this to be an easy all ireland attempt.

Unless of course you prefer single code clubs - which seems to be a North antrim thing. 

When was that ? 

Can't be exact on the years but your boys have definitely jumped between intermediate & senior in recent years.
I've no problem with that - just making the point it's ridiculous to suggest this is a belfast thing.
The same good now be said of cloughmills.
They could enter senior again if they wished - but chose intermediate as in division 2 - fair enough.

It's no different for the johnnies or rossa or Lamh dearg.
If their ability has them dropping down a league - then they are entitled to drop down a championship - like glenarrife & cloughmills - the point is it's not a city thing.

I could be wrong but last years appearance in the Intermediate championship was our first in close to 10 years maybe. We won IC in 2005, and were in SC that year but that season if you were beaten in preliminary round (St Pauls beat us) you could enter the IC.

In fact we have played SC plenty of years when we shouldn't have been near it.

I don't disagree with a word of that Minder - The Johnnies and Rossa went nearly 10years without winning a match also - my point is not the decision to 'drop-down' it was that it's not a city thing.
Cloughmills also took the (correct) decision. It was just stupid and factually incorrect statement but I'll drop it there.

I think nearly everyone agrees with MR2 - if we keep tinkering this again proves there is no golden chalice of a perfect system. It's because we have so many inconsistent teams. Therefore pick a system and stick with it - at least we all know where we stand then.

[NAG1]

Haven't really had a chance to debate this, but I'm more than fed up with how the 'clubs' change this every time, leagues one year championship the next, two up in the league or two down, round robin championships, playoffs in the leagues, group stages championships ffs!!! I reckon I could go on but it really is daft, never going to please anyone but thats the way it is......

As for changing it this year cause it upset the gate money in the glens, well that just speaks volumes. While it may have been a 'lopsided' draw in the snobs view it was a massive chance for clubs like ourselves, Sarsfields, Gales Cloughmills all actually thought they had a chance to reach a county final, for some that would have been their first time... We achieved that and while we didn't cover ourselves in glory, we (played no worse that the losers of the final the year before btw) got that monkey off our backs.

To continually change it offers nothing in my view.... getting your own house in order seems to be the main chat from the 'establishment' and looking after their own, well after this years Ulster championship final I'd say some teams in Antrim would really need to sort out their own house before telling the minnows to do so.

i'd concur with that.

To be honest MR2 I dont think you have a leg to stand on here with your argument against seeding.

If your club took hurling seriously and put in the effort that is required to compete at the top level then you might well have but that is simply not the case. I accept that it is more difficult in a dual club, however there is a perception rightly or wrongly that hurling is a bit of a joke to you. Not you personally but as a club.

The championship shouldn't be seen as a free ride, looking for a handy draw to get to a final that a club doesn't deserve. Graft, work hard and put the effort in down the ranks, spend time developing skill away from training. All the things that your footballers have done for years, your hurlers simply don't do. You will find that the seeded teams are doing all these things.

Now support should be given to those non seeded teams, county coaches should be in these clubs developing their structures and methods and helping them to improve so that they are not cut adrift but are in a change process which should lead to continual improvement.

[theskull1]

If "your club treats it like a bit of a joke" is a different way of saying
"Your club can find enough interested coaches to develop the game properly" then I'd agree with that 

Every club is reliant on enough people giving the right time to doing all the things you speak about. Its a numbers game

[Sham Man]

If "your club treats it like a bit of a joke" is a different way of saying
"Your club can find enough interested coaches to develop the game properly" then I'd agree with that 

Every club is reliant on enough people giving the right time to doing all the things you speak about. Its a numbers game

Its all to do with the standing of Hurling in both Antrim and Ulster. Dual clubs and city  clubs in particular continue to hold hurling as secondary and a lesser objective in terms of their ambition. Football in the city has always been the dominant code, possibly with the exception of O'DR and St. Johns.

Dropping down to lower grades in hurling championship, provides a means for a predominant football club to possibly pick up a other piece of silverware to enhance and populate the trophy table.

Football, whether you like it or not, is and always has been, will be the predominant code, that's fact! Clubs, County and Ulster Council have created this by choice.

Strong, dominant hurling clubs such as we have in NA, will always be a minority. On the rare occasion when hurling in Rossa or St. Johns is reasonably strong, always makes for an interesting and competitive Antrim SHC. Other than that,  clubs will pick and choose IHC or JHC in pursuit of silverware. Have to agree, Championship grade should be determined by League divisions.

And we in NA will battle on keeping the game alive in the more serious and committed fashion. You SA men need to get your gaff sorted ffs! 

[btdtgtt]

If "your club treats it like a bit of a joke" is a different way of saying
"Your club can find enough interested coaches to develop the game properly" then I'd agree with that 

Every club is reliant on enough people giving the right time to doing all the things you speak about. Its a numbers game

Its all to do with the standing of Hurling in both Antrim and Ulster. Dual clubs and city  clubs in particular continue to hold hurling as secondary and a lesser objective in terms of their ambition. Football in the city has always been the dominant code, possibly with the exception of O'DR and St. Johns.

Dropping down to lower grades in hurling championship, provides a means for a predominant football club to possibly pick up a other piece of silverware to enhance and populate the trophy table.

Football, whether you like it or not, is and always has been, will be the predominant code, that's fact! Clubs, County and Ulster Council have created this by choice.

Strong, dominant hurling clubs such as we have in NA, will always be a minority. On the rare occasion when hurling in Rossa or St. Johns is reasonably strong, always makes for an interesting and competitive Antrim SHC. Other than that,  clubs will pick and choose IHC or JHC in pursuit of silverware. Have to agree, Championship grade should be determined by League divisions.

And we in NA will battle on keeping the game alive in the more serious and committed fashion. You SA men need to get your gaff sorted ffs! 

Oh right. Because nobody in SA is working at hurling at all?
The problem is not getting "our gaff" sorted - be it the dual issue, social issues, too many clubs, whatever - they aren't going away. City clubs are working against and with issues which NA clubs are not. Thtas just a fact. The statement is disrepectful to those who give their efforts both taking teams and playing in them.

I notice not all the NA clubs are keeping gaelic football alive by offering it to their members.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Haven't really had a chance to debate this, but I'm more than fed up with how the 'clubs' change this every time, leagues one year championship the next, two up in the league or two down, round robin championships, playoffs in the leagues, group stages championships ffs!!! I reckon I could go on but it really is daft, never going to please anyone but thats the way it is......

As for changing it this year cause it upset the gate money in the glens, well that just speaks volumes. While it may have been a 'lopsided' draw in the snobs view it was a massive chance for clubs like ourselves, Sarsfields, Gales Cloughmills all actually thought they had a chance to reach a county final, for some that would have been their first time... We achieved that and while we didn't cover ourselves in glory, we (played no worse that the losers of the final the year before btw) got that monkey off our backs.

To continually change it offers nothing in my view.... getting your own house in order seems to be the main chat from the 'establishment' and looking after their own, well after this years Ulster championship final I'd say some teams in Antrim would really need to sort out their own house before telling the minnows to do so.

the gate money in the championship goes to the county, it has nothing to do with the glens.

the cold hard fact is that our county looked at the fixtures from last year and the gate receipts from it and decided they didnt want that again. they seeded it to ensure there wouldn't be happening again. one semi final had a great return, the other didnt. fact.

this was our county doing this, not any clubs within the county. they are the snobs here, more so they are the greedy ones who didnt make enough cash from it.

for the record i dont care for it nor am i against it. if we get st galls so be it, if we got ballycastle so be it. i dont care to be honest. if you want to win the championship your going to have to beat cdall/lgiel/st johns etc at some stage.

[theskull1]

If "your club treats it like a bit of a joke" is a different way of saying
"Your club can't find enough interested coaches to develop the game properly" then I'd agree with that 

Every club is reliant on enough people giving the right time to doing all the things you speak about. Its a numbers game

typo edit ...sorry Minder 

[johnneycool]

Haven't really had a chance to debate this, but I'm more than fed up with how the 'clubs' change this every time, leagues one year championship the next, two up in the league or two down, round robin championships, playoffs in the leagues, group stages championships ffs!!! I reckon I could go on but it really is daft, never going to please anyone but thats the way it is......

As for changing it this year cause it upset the gate money in the glens, well that just speaks volumes. While it may have been a 'lopsided' draw in the snobs view it was a massive chance for clubs like ourselves, Sarsfields, Gales Cloughmills all actually thought they had a chance to reach a county final, for some that would have been their first time... We achieved that and while we didn't cover ourselves in glory, we (played no worse that the losers of the final the year before btw) got that monkey off our backs.

To continually change it offers nothing in my view.... getting your own house in order seems to be the main chat from the 'establishment' and looking after their own, well after this years Ulster championship final I'd say some teams in Antrim would really need to sort out their own house before telling the minnows to do so.

The league last year shouldn't have affected the big games(gate money) in the glens as they all made it into the top half and played each other twice.

I don't know how the gates for championship games are split in Antrim, (Down CD get everything barring 10% for the host club) but unless the clubs get a fair slice of it then Antrim CB lost out more and the greater will would be with them to enter into a seeding arrangement, no?

[Sham Man]

If "your club treats it like a bit of a joke" is a different way of saying
"Your club can find enough interested coaches to develop the game properly" then I'd agree with that 

Every club is reliant on enough people giving the right time to doing all the things you speak about. Its a numbers game

Its all to do with the standing of Hurling in both Antrim and Ulster. Dual clubs and city  clubs in particular continue to hold hurling as secondary and a lesser objective in terms of their ambition. Football in the city has always been the dominant code, possibly with the exception of O'DR and St. Johns.

Dropping down to lower grades in hurling championship, provides a means for a predominant football club to possibly pick up a other piece of silverware to enhance and populate the trophy table.

Football, whether you like it or not, is and always has been, will be the predominant code, that's fact! Clubs, County and Ulster Council have created this by choice.

Strong, dominant hurling clubs such as we have in NA, will always be a minority. On the rare occasion when hurling in Rossa or St. Johns is reasonably strong, always makes for an interesting and competitive Antrim SHC. Other than that,  clubs will pick and choose IHC or JHC in pursuit of silverware. Have to agree, Championship grade should be determined by League divisions.

And we in NA will battle on keeping the game alive in the more serious and committed fashion. You SA men need to get your gaff sorted ffs! 

Oh right. Because nobody in SA is working at hurling at all?
The problem is not getting "our gaff" sorted - be it the dual issue, social issues, too many clubs, whatever - they aren't going away. City clubs are working against and with issues which NA clubs are not. Thtas just a fact. The statement is disrepectful to those who give their efforts both taking teams and playing in them.

I notice not all the NA clubs are keeping gaelic football alive by offering it to their members.

Apologies btdtgtt, no disrespect intended, just stating the obvious scientific fact - NA - Hurling / SA Big ball!

I appreciate the difficulties and obstacles SA and in particular dual clubs face, but its all about choice and preference, nothing wrong with that.  Bear in mind though, other than St. Galls/Johnnies doing well in the football over past years in Antrim, Ulster ans AI series.  Now if you flip that coin, Antrim clubs in all grades of hurling, Senior, Int. Jun. could very well progress through Ulster and to All Ireland series and possibly achieve great things. In recent years, Johnnies, Rossa have dropped down and progressed through Ulster to the bigger stage.  Now LD doing the same!  Pot hunting, mere pot hunting, nothing to do with playing at your level, but amazing what a few pieces of silver may bring to the party.  Creggan, have done it and, jaysus they are a SW dual club!    Less likely for that to happen in football, eh?

So all you big ball/dual clubs, make the decision, its all about choice and preference of course, as in life!!!!!! Still an open draw for me, creates opportunites for serious upsets and potential progress.   Case in point, lets take Limerick, Clare, Tipp, KK etc. do you really think the give a fiddlers fcuk about the big ball?    Nah, see, it all about choice and preference.    In NA, it has always been the sliotar and caman code, although the town, may beg to differ, but I don't think so, do you? 

[Milltown Row2]

Haven't really had a chance to debate this, but I'm more than fed up with how the 'clubs' change this every time, leagues one year championship the next, two up in the league or two down, round robin championships, playoffs in the leagues, group stages championships ffs!!! I reckon I could go on but it really is daft, never going to please anyone but thats the way it is......

As for changing it this year cause it upset the gate money in the glens, well that just speaks volumes. While it may have been a 'lopsided' draw in the snobs view it was a massive chance for clubs like ourselves, Sarsfields, Gales Cloughmills all actually thought they had a chance to reach a county final, for some that would have been their first time... We achieved that and while we didn't cover ourselves in glory, we (played no worse that the losers of the final the year before btw) got that monkey off our backs.

To continually change it offers nothing in my view.... getting your own house in order seems to be the main chat from the 'establishment' and looking after their own, well after this years Ulster championship final I'd say some teams in Antrim would really need to sort out their own house before telling the minnows to do so.

i'd concur with that.

To be honest MR2 I dont think you have a leg to stand on here with your argument against seeding.

If your club took hurling seriously and put in the effort that is required to compete at the top level then you might well have but that is simply not the case. I accept that it is more difficult in a dual club, however there is a perception rightly or wrongly that hurling is a bit of a joke to you. Not you personally but as a club.

The championship shouldn't be seen as a free ride, looking for a handy draw to get to a final that a club doesn't deserve. Graft, work hard and put the effort in down the ranks, spend time developing skill away from training. All the things that your footballers have done for years, your hurlers simply don't do. You will find that the seeded teams are doing all these things.

Now support should be given to those non seeded teams, county coaches should be in these clubs developing their structures and methods and helping them to improve so that they are not cut adrift but are in a change process which should lead to continual improvement.

My gripe with the seeding is because they done it again!! County yes  but clubs guilty of this also in fairness nag cause they were the ones that actually voted it. As I sure you know that's how its done proposals are put up by clubs and voted on, but you'll know that already. Its the constant changing that pisses me off.

As for putting effort in we have and continue to do. Getting to Croke park in both codes in the same year is difficult, your own club is still trying😉. I'm proud of my club be it  football or hurling or ladies football we've achieved a lot, a hell of a lot more than clubs in NA in both codes, but when we as a club became prominent in big ball in the early eighties then that was unfortunately going to hit the hurlers within that side of things.....

But we've been a yoyo club and will continue for a while yet.....

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

MR2 as far as i know it was a county proposal and not one from a club for the seeding. not all the country clubs voted for it and even one of the seeded teams voted against it. i know ourselves and lgiel voted yes, i dont know wat cdall voted. to be honest our club didnt care either way what way the vote went.

i do agree with you that dual clubs put more work into sucess at all codes, more so than hurling/fooball only clubs. i dont think these single code clubs realise how much work goes into a dual club who also have camogie teams to boot. to put it in perspective, we have 21 teams in total training or starting pre-season training this and next week in all codes in our club.

[glensgael]

I was there on Monday and the county chairman stated the seeding proposal for championship were  100% financial driven and was prised by the county not the clubs.

The vote was 20 against and 26 for. With only 44 clubs in Antrim someone behind me asked what was the voting strength and if all clubs were present and how could we have more votes than clubs. The response was that county executive could vote even though not all members were present and some say they didn't even know it was being proposed.

With regard money, clubs that host any championship games are entitled to 10% of the gate on the day but are never told until later date what is collected.

Role on the championship draws this Monday night.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Is it one vote to cover both football & hurling championships?

[glensgael]

It's one vote per club (& executive members), motion was for both codes so only one vote needed.

Maybe some season Antrim will try and leave the formats of championship and league along. Time to get on with it until this years convention when no doubt there be some changes proposed yet again.