Antrim Hurling

[NAG1]

went to game on sunday myself. what a great game for a neutral to watch, I loved every min of it.

I thought cdall got out of jail, they didn't play well but you have to admire them for sticking at it to stay level. I thought sneill had it when they went up by a point near the death but the dall fought back and scored a free again.

sneill were def the better team and will be disappointed at not winning it.

thought the ref was poor, as others have said. personally I didn't think Shane should have walked. the ball was there to be pulled on, is it foul to do so? im not a ref but natty done the same in the first half and got booked and I thought there was nothing wrong with it. Big carson should have walked for the head butt though.

Wasn't at the game but did he connect with the ball when he pulled? All well and good if he connects with the ball but if he hits the player then it's down to whether the referee thinks he was late and in being late could be seen as being dangerous?? Should there be a difference in pulling low on a ball late or when the ball is in the air and pulling late?

Shane has picked up his fair share of cards recently over the years, he can't tackle, great hurler but his tackling is borderline (from a referees view) I like that personally, as a player but some referees look at it differently. Think he came late on against us and picked up a tick or a booking

To me I think this is a really surprising statement for a ref to come out with.

He can still hit the ball and pulling in a dangerous manner, it is not always appropriate or safe to be pulling and I always think this makes the difference between a ref who knows the game and a ref who knows the rules.

If a defender is rushing out to the ball behind a forward and it bounces up say head height, to me a forward turning into the defender and pulling is an act of dangerous play regardless if he strikes the ball, the follow through is always going to hit the defender and this could be anywhere above the waist of the defender. That is dangerous.

Always a sign to me that a forward is slightly lacking bottle when you see them coming out and swinging wildly on a ball like that.

I said I wasn't there so can't comment on that incident, I was only asking if he connected with the ball as in was only looking at the ball and not doing it with intent. Any dipstick will know whether he pulled with intent, and you don't have to have been a player or referee to understand that. Within the rules there is cards for what would be perceived as a dangerous pull.

I've played long enough to know the difference NAG so no need to be playing silly games

Not playing silly games, was just taken a back by your statement. I'm not talking about intent I was talking about the type of shout you hear all the time, sure the ball was there. The initial intent may well be to try and play the ball but in doing so you are endangering an opponent then that is dangerous play IMO.

[NAG1]

went to game on sunday myself. what a great game for a neutral to watch, I loved every min of it.

I thought cdall got out of jail, they didn't play well but you have to admire them for sticking at it to stay level. I thought sneill had it when they went up by a point near the death but the dall fought back and scored a free again.

sneill were def the better team and will be disappointed at not winning it.

thought the ref was poor, as others have said. personally I didn't think Shane should have walked. the ball was there to be pulled on, is it foul to do so? im not a ref but natty done the same in the first half and got booked and I thought there was nothing wrong with it. Big carson should have walked for the head butt though.

Wasn't at the game but did he connect with the ball when he pulled? All well and good if he connects with the ball but if he hits the player then it's down to whether the referee thinks he was late and in being late could be seen as being dangerous?? Should there be a difference in pulling low on a ball late or when the ball is in the air and pulling late?

Shane has picked up his fair share of cards recently over the years, he can't tackle, great hurler but his tackling is borderline (from a referees view) I like that personally, as a player but some referees look at it differently. Think he came late on against us and picked up a tick or a booking

To me I think this is a really surprising statement for a ref to come out with.

He can still hit the ball and pulling in a dangerous manner, it is not always appropriate or safe to be pulling and I always think this makes the difference between a ref who knows the game and a ref who knows the rules.

If a defender is rushing out to the ball behind a forward and it bounces up say head height, to me a forward turning into the defender and pulling is an act of dangerous play regardless if he strikes the ball, the follow through is always going to hit the defender and this could be anywhere above the waist of the defender. That is dangerous.

Always a sign to me that a forward is slightly lacking bottle when you see them coming out and swinging wildly on a ball like that.

So you'd be concerned that the follow through may connect with the defender irrespective if the ball is struck by the attacker or not?

Has your opponent not got a responsibility to protect themselves?

TBH, I've advocated to some of our smaller forwards who get pulled to pieces by defenders to fake the lift and double on the ball first time every once in a while to get them a bit more space the next time.

I am not as concerned by the forward stepping to the side with the fake lift and pulling on a ball below the knee as the defender should always be able to get themselves protected or out of the way of that.

I am talking specifically about the ball bouncing up higher and the forward stepping to the side pulling on a ball between waist and head height knowing that the defender wont be able to avoid. Follow through going to hit the defender giving him no opportunity to protect himself. To me that is an instance of dangerous play.

[Milltown Row2]

went to game on sunday myself. what a great game for a neutral to watch, I loved every min of it.

I thought cdall got out of jail, they didn't play well but you have to admire them for sticking at it to stay level. I thought sneill had it when they went up by a point near the death but the dall fought back and scored a free again.

sneill were def the better team and will be disappointed at not winning it.

thought the ref was poor, as others have said. personally I didn't think Shane should have walked. the ball was there to be pulled on, is it foul to do so? im not a ref but natty done the same in the first half and got booked and I thought there was nothing wrong with it. Big carson should have walked for the head butt though.

Wasn't at the game but did he connect with the ball when he pulled? All well and good if he connects with the ball but if he hits the player then it's down to whether the referee thinks he was late and in being late could be seen as being dangerous?? Should there be a difference in pulling low on a ball late or when the ball is in the air and pulling late?

Shane has picked up his fair share of cards recently over the years, he can't tackle, great hurler but his tackling is borderline (from a referees view) I like that personally, as a player but some referees look at it differently. Think he came late on against us and picked up a tick or a booking

To me I think this is a really surprising statement for a ref to come out with.

He can still hit the ball and pulling in a dangerous manner, it is not always appropriate or safe to be pulling and I always think this makes the difference between a ref who knows the game and a ref who knows the rules.

If a defender is rushing out to the ball behind a forward and it bounces up say head height, to me a forward turning into the defender and pulling is an act of dangerous play regardless if he strikes the ball, the follow through is always going to hit the defender and this could be anywhere above the waist of the defender. That is dangerous.

Always a sign to me that a forward is slightly lacking bottle when you see them coming out and swinging wildly on a ball like that.

I said I wasn't there so can't comment on that incident, I was only asking if he connected with the ball as in was only looking at the ball and not doing it with intent. Any dipstick will know whether he pulled with intent, and you don't have to have been a player or referee to understand that. Within the rules there is cards for what would be perceived as a dangerous pull.

I've played long enough to know the difference NAG so no need to be playing silly games

Not playing silly games, was just taken a back by your statement. I'm not talking about intent I was talking about the type of shout you hear all the time, sure the ball was there. The initial intent may well be to try and play the ball but in doing so you are endangering an opponent then that is dangerous play IMO.

I've always blew for wild pulling, and I doubt you could find a game that I didn't. differentiating from the intent and the accidental (which is still a foul btw) is simple enough, generally you could blow the whistle before he strikes the ball (or attempts to)

I see you never took issues with the last part regarding Shanes tackling?

[NAG1]

went to game on sunday myself. what a great game for a neutral to watch, I loved every min of it.

I thought cdall got out of jail, they didn't play well but you have to admire them for sticking at it to stay level. I thought sneill had it when they went up by a point near the death but the dall fought back and scored a free again.

sneill were def the better team and will be disappointed at not winning it.

thought the ref was poor, as others have said. personally I didn't think Shane should have walked. the ball was there to be pulled on, is it foul to do so? im not a ref but natty done the same in the first half and got booked and I thought there was nothing wrong with it. Big carson should have walked for the head butt though.

Wasn't at the game but did he connect with the ball when he pulled? All well and good if he connects with the ball but if he hits the player then it's down to whether the referee thinks he was late and in being late could be seen as being dangerous?? Should there be a difference in pulling low on a ball late or when the ball is in the air and pulling late?

Shane has picked up his fair share of cards recently over the years, he can't tackle, great hurler but his tackling is borderline (from a referees view) I like that personally, as a player but some referees look at it differently. Think he came late on against us and picked up a tick or a booking

To me I think this is a really surprising statement for a ref to come out with.

He can still hit the ball and pulling in a dangerous manner, it is not always appropriate or safe to be pulling and I always think this makes the difference between a ref who knows the game and a ref who knows the rules.

If a defender is rushing out to the ball behind a forward and it bounces up say head height, to me a forward turning into the defender and pulling is an act of dangerous play regardless if he strikes the ball, the follow through is always going to hit the defender and this could be anywhere above the waist of the defender. That is dangerous.

Always a sign to me that a forward is slightly lacking bottle when you see them coming out and swinging wildly on a ball like that.

I said I wasn't there so can't comment on that incident, I was only asking if he connected with the ball as in was only looking at the ball and not doing it with intent. Any dipstick will know whether he pulled with intent, and you don't have to have been a player or referee to understand that. Within the rules there is cards for what would be perceived as a dangerous pull.

I've played long enough to know the difference NAG so no need to be playing silly games

Not playing silly games, was just taken a back by your statement. I'm not talking about intent I was talking about the type of shout you hear all the time, sure the ball was there. The initial intent may well be to try and play the ball but in doing so you are endangering an opponent then that is dangerous play IMO.

I've always blew for wild pulling, and I doubt you could find a game that I didn't. differentiating from the intent and the accidental (which is still a foul btw) is simple enough, generally you could blow the whistle before he strikes the ball (or attempts to)

I see you never took issues with the last part regarding Shanes tackling?

I wasnt overly taking issue with you as a ref MR2, i know that it is a tough job, it was just that comment that has grated on me for a while. Sure the ball was there!

To me anyone pulling above the waist coming onto a ball knowing they will hit the defender on the follow (starting with that intent or not) is dangerous play.

No have no issue with the other element on SMcN tackling, he must take that from the aul boy. 

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

The two incidents happened on the terrace side, I was in the stand so it was hard to say if either time the ball was hit. the crowd were roaring like hell each time for a foul/card/sending off which I think influenced the desission each time.

to me if the balls coming knee height at pace and the attacker pulls on it then its fair game. if the defender gets caught with the follow through by accident its tough love time. I was a defender and its happened a few times, I accepted the slap, maybe moaned about it but you accepted that its a tough game.

the ref gave sneill serious amount of fouls during the game, a lot were very very soft IMO. cdall did get some soft ones as well, Neil mc manus tries to buy fouls now it seems by throwing his arms in the air in a tackle.

[theskull1]

So the referee kept the balloobas in the game? Reading between the lines Cushendall will win handy the next day out.

[johnneycool]

The two incidents happened on the terrace side, I was in the stand so it was hard to say if either time the ball was hit. the crowd were roaring like hell each time for a foul/card/sending off which I think influenced the desission each time.

to me if the balls coming knee height at pace and the attacker pulls on it then its fair game. if the defender gets caught with the follow through by accident its tough love time. I was a defender and its happened a few times, I accepted the slap, maybe moaned about it but you accepted that its a tough game.

the ref gave sneill serious amount of fouls during the game, a lot were very very soft IMO. cdall did get some soft ones as well, Neil mc manus tries to buy fouls now it seems by throwing his arms in the air in a tackle.

That's becoming all too common now, defender stands his ground, attacker can't run straight through him, so throws both arms up in the air in a 'look at me, I'm being impeded' type thing..

[Seamroga in exile]

So the referee kept the balloobas in the game? Reading between the lines Cushendall will win handy the next day out.

They'd have to be big favourites alright.

[Last Man]

went to game on sunday myself. what a great game for a neutral to watch, I loved every min of it.

I thought cdall got out of jail, they didn't play well but you have to admire them for sticking at it to stay level. I thought sneill had it when they went up by a point near the death but the dall fought back and scored a free again.

sneill were def the better team and will be disappointed at not winning it.

thought the ref was poor, as others have said. personally I didn't think Shane should have walked. the ball was there to be pulled on, is it foul to do so? im not a ref but natty done the same in the first half and got booked and I thought there was nothing wrong with it. Big carson should have walked for the head butt though.

Wasn't at the game but did he connect with the ball when he pulled? All well and good if he connects with the ball but if he hits the player then it's down to whether the referee thinks he was late and in being late could be seen as being dangerous?? Should there be a difference in pulling low on a ball late or when the ball is in the air and pulling late?

Shane has picked up his fair share of cards recently over the years, he can't tackle, great hurler but his tackling is borderline (from a referees view) I like that personally, as a player but some referees look at it differently. Think he came late on against us and picked up a tick or a booking

To me I think this is a really surprising statement for a ref to come out with.

He can still hit the ball and pulling in a dangerous manner, it is not always appropriate or safe to be pulling and I always think this makes the difference between a ref who knows the game and a ref who knows the rules.

If a defender is rushing out to the ball behind a forward and it bounces up say head height, to me a forward turning into the defender and pulling is an act of dangerous play regardless if he strikes the ball, the follow through is always going to hit the defender and this could be anywhere above the waist of the defender. That is dangerous.

Always a sign to me that a forward is slightly lacking bottle when you see them coming out and swinging wildly on a ball like that.

I said I wasn't there so can't comment on that incident, I was only asking if he connected with the ball as in was only looking at the ball and not doing it with intent. Any dipstick will know whether he pulled with intent, and you don't have to have been a player or referee to understand that. Within the rules there is cards for what would be perceived as a dangerous pull.

I've played long enough to know the difference NAG so no need to be playing silly games

Not playing silly games, was just taken a back by your statement. I'm not talking about intent I was talking about the type of shout you hear all the time, sure the ball was there. The initial intent may well be to try and play the ball but in doing so you are endangering an opponent then that is dangerous play IMO.

I've always blew for wild pulling, and I doubt you could find a game that I didn't. differentiating from the intent and the accidental (which is still a foul btw) is simple enough, generally you could blow the whistle before he strikes the ball (or attempts to)

I see you never took issues with the last part regarding Shanes tackling?

I wasnt overly taking issue with you as a ref MR2, i know that it is a tough job, it was just that comment that has grated on me for a while. Sure the ball was there!

To me anyone pulling above the waist coming onto a ball knowing they will hit the defender on the follow (starting with that intent or not) is dangerous play.

No have no issue with the other element on SMcN tackling, he must take that from the aul boy. 

Shane and young C use this move a couple of times in most games, I reckon its intended to put manners on their markers primarily but no doubt its on the edge and C got a yellow for one of his if my memory serves me right. They have a few other moves but I'll leave you to catch them out yourself.

[btdtgtt]

Don't think we can generalise about when a pull can be deemed dangerous / deliberate. Think each incident must be looked at on its own merit.
I also hate refs taking things I. The context of the game or the player concerned - each incident should be viewed as it is. Refs putting their own slant on things can lead to frustration and games getting away from the hurling.

But I must say I agree fully with the increasing trend in buying frees. McNanus thinks he's cute enough to do this - I think refs put a marker down that they aren't buying it. Granted that's easier said than done and can again lead to a breakdown.

For me the key thing is consistency on all calls - it eliminates the issue - players understand the calls.

Although as a caveat I fully appreciate this is easy said from a keyboard!
Wouldn't be a ref no matter what Derry paid me in expenses!

[Milltown Row2]

Don't think we can generalise about when a pull can be deemed dangerous / deliberate. Think each incident must be looked at on its own merit.
I also hate refs taking things I. The context of the game or the player concerned - each incident should be viewed as it is. Refs putting their own slant on things can lead to frustration and games getting away from the hurling.

But I must say I agree fully with the increasing trend in buying frees. McNanus thinks he's cute enough to do this - I think refs put a marker down that they aren't buying it. Granted that's easier said than done and can again lead to a breakdown.

For me the key thing is consistency on all calls - it eliminates the issue - players understand the calls.

Although as a caveat I fully appreciate this is easy said from a keyboard!
Wouldn't be a ref no matter what Derry paid me in expenses!

Slight contradiction from you

[getevennotcross]

Late is late, early is early, intent is intent -  should a  ball be lose and available ankle to knee high, knee to hip, hip to head, it is there to be played.  Any referee worth his salt (well most referees anyway) would explicitly know the difference between a dirty intentional strike, a wild pull or careless use of the stick.  Bottom line, rules is rules and are not open to interpretation, herein lies the problem with referees.

You may then argue that common sense would prevail, but most savvy refs know the fundamental difference between a late or early pull, and where there is intent to injure or inflict serious damage.  Is that not common sense?

Anyway, Sniel by 2.

[Jeepers Creepers]

Ahh the ol' ball was there cry. The ultimate cowards way out.

[Last Man]

Ahh the ol' ball was there cry. The ultimate cowards way out.

Very true.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

if the balls there to be played then its fair game, if and mean if you aren't going to hurt someone to do so. if the defender gets out in front and the attacker pulls on it and hits the defender then yes its a foul but in a 50/50 situation the balls there for both players to have a go.