Antrim Hurling

[wino]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

We have been weak at minor the last few years, but unfortunately for these lads the numbers in their group have always been low. We still seem to be getting lads out of it coming into the senior ranks. Some of our current minors now have a senior championship medal in their collection.
Moving down the age groups we are fairly strong and will mix it with anyone. I've no problems with our underage structures, but as you know it's always a work in progress and we constantly have to look at it as there is always room for improvement.

[wino]

I would like to know what the thinking is from the group who put the suggested league formats together, as to how it improves hurling in the county. I don't want to knock it too much until I hear what the thoughts are. I think everyone (including me) should listen to both sides before totally dismissing it. They have spent a bit of time on it so there should be some reasoned arguments for it.

[optimus cheese]

I'm sure some agreement could be reached where the clubs keep revenue from round robin and county takes the gate from knockout games.
As for the 3 Down teams, obviously poses a problem and reduces the number to 9, but could the Intermediate winner (Cloughmills) not be allowed to compete at senior, bringing the number to 10 and 2 Groups of 5 instead?

[theskull1]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

OK milltown ..I'll rephrase

the only way it will work if all clubs give full commitment to improve their senior teams and just as important their underage structures so that on a long term basis more clubs become more competitive. Maybe that's the long term aim but i remain very dubious.

[Milltown Row2]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

We have been weak at minor the last few years, but unfortunately for these lads the numbers in their group have always been low. We still seem to be getting lads out of it coming into the senior ranks. Some of our current minors now have a senior championship medal in their collection.Moving down the age groups we are fairly strong and will mix it with anyone. I've no problems with our underage structures, but as you know it's always a work in progress and we constantly have to look at it as there is always room for improvement.

And so do we at minor, and the amount of minor players we have lost over the years that have 2 minor championship medals, 3/4 under 21 and senior is crazy, it doesn't mean anything.

I was just wondering why you and Skull talked about underage teams without actually remembering that you have struggled a bit at those age levels.

I can't say that we would be able to ensure we have full squads available for the league campaign but there will certainly be a train of thought to target home games and make sure the strongest team is out. Away games a different tactic would need to be employed. Will the reserves get a game? I might get another run out 

[Milltown Row2]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

OK milltown ..I'll rephrase

the only way it will work if all clubs give full commitment to improve their senior teams and just as important their underage structures so that on a long term basis more clubs become more competitive. Maybe that's the long term aim but i remain very dubious.

Be a wee bit optimistic Skull, as I stated before we have a few lads that are playing senior only, they are out of minor and less exams to worry about, football is still big of course and while we are winning this fooking game it's hard for lads who play both. But we have been doing ok at juvenile with committed lads looking after them.

At under 12 in the next year or 2 we have a great wee squad of kids and a lot of effort has been put into them. Seriously think that wee team will be competing for underage titles

[theskull1]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

OK milltown ..I'll rephrase

the only way it will work if all clubs give full commitment to improve their senior teams and just as important their underage structures so that on a long term basis more clubs become more competitive. Maybe that's the long term aim but i remain very dubious.

Be a wee bit optimistic Skull, as I stated before we have a few lads that are playing senior only, they are out of minor and less exams to worry about, football is still big of course and while we are winning this fooking game it's hard for lads who play both. But we have been doing ok at juvenile with committed lads looking after them.

At under 12 in the next year or 2 we have a great wee squad of kids and a lot of effort has been put into them. Seriously think that wee team will be competing for underage titles

I was making a general point

I think you know what I mean.

[wino]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

We have been weak at minor the last few years, but unfortunately for these lads the numbers in their group have always been low. We still seem to be getting lads out of it coming into the senior ranks. Some of our current minors now have a senior championship medal in their collection.Moving down the age groups we are fairly strong and will mix it with anyone. I've no problems with our underage structures, but as you know it's always a work in progress and we constantly have to look at it as there is always room for improvement.

And so do we at minor, and the amount of minor players we have lost over the years that have 2 minor championship medals, 3/4 under 21 and senior is crazy, it doesn't mean anything.

I was just wondering why you and Skull talked about underage teams without actually remembering that you have struggled a bit at those age levels.

I can't say that we would be able to ensure we have full squads available for the league campaign but there will certainly be a train of thought to target home games and make sure the strongest team is out. Away games a different tactic would need to be employed. Will the reserves get a game? I might get another run out 

Here's a reason why it won't work. Taking your reserves to a strong away team. Doesn't make sense but no doubt this will happen in some cases

[Last Man]

Iknow I ignored you the last time Skull, distracted with other things that week, but my concern is clearly the little leaguers and providing an improved chance for progressive clubs to emerge from the whirlpool. I know this has an impact at the top end and the bit that pisses me off is that nobody gives a fcuk what happens as long as div 1 is ok. And so it probably shall remain

[Fairhead]

But it sort of kills the reasoning behind Wino's post

OK milltown ..I'll rephrase

the only way it will work if all clubs give full commitment to improve their senior teams and just as important their underage structures so that on a long term basis more clubs become more competitive. Maybe that's the long term aim but i remain very dubious.

Sorted that for you there Skull!!! Did anybody hear what Brian Cody said at the homecoming in Kilkenny last Monday week? He said the key reason why Kilkenny have been so successful is down to the great work being done at underage level by all the clubs in Kilkenny. Should hurling people in other counties not listen to that man? Is rearranging the leagues going to help underage development in the clubs in Antrim?

[theskull1]

Iknow I ignored you the last time Skull, distracted with other things that week, but my concern is clearly the little leaguers and providing an improved chance for progressive clubs to emerge from the whirlpool. I know this has an impact at the top end and the bit that pisses me off is that nobody gives a fcuk what happens as long as div 1 is ok. And so it probably shall remain

If the clubs (and their players) coming up into Division 1 feel they are good enough to enjoy learning to compete at that level and have an interest in looking after/respecting the competition properly by at least playing with their strongest squad week in week out, then I wouldnt be griping as much. I just remember what a big 1 way league was like. Would love a Sarsfields man to comment on their last foray in Div1. St Galls on the road were just as bad. Devalues the game IMO

We're all taking perspectives here. For now St Endas are little leaguers but are doing good work low down. How is what I'm whinging about or indeed these proposals affecting youse? Are you saying these proposals are the answer to little leaguers prayers or wha?

And by the way ...I have said I'd like the proposals explained

[btdtgtt]

So to collate a few points;

1) If St galls attitude to promotion would be to target certain games and effectively award walk-overs in difficult away games then they should not be in Div1. I can see the stratgey here from a selfish point of view but it completely de-values the leage and the purpose of the competition. Also it hardly develops the game either in Milltown or the county. Especially given the wealth of hurlers there.

2) I have still therefore to hear anything that argues a viable alternative to at most 2teams warranting going up - but plenty of good suggestions on linking league & championship which I think is a must to increase the importance of the league. With the added benefit that it increases the balance of the championship draw.

2) Cody's emphahsis on underage development hits the nail on the head - yes we need our leagues to be competitive etc but if the work is not done before then it's too late to think that effort at senior is going to make up for years of neglect. From this point of view I do remember slating our own development squads - they are a joke. For me development squads are clubs! I know they work in other counties but the fact is that everything I have heard about them here is not exactly positive in terms of improving standards. "Here lads we'll enter this blitz down south and you can keep the rig" I am sorry but I would rather as Cody says they were nurtured by clubs with meaningful competition at home.

3) Last Man is also right we seem to be pre-occupied with making Div1 the be all & end all with little consideration of lower leagues (apologies for that term of being PC!)

[Last Man]

On the face of it the league structures proposed do elevate us to div3 which is what we want, however just recently word has it hurling is finished in Ardoyne and Ballymena so ourselves and Glenravel may well be left behind. Stuff of nightmares tbh. That is my frustration albeit selfish.
When I look back at our season this is the first season in many many years that we have introduced minors to the senior panel who know how to hurl properly. We had 4 starting players on the county, not that this is much to crow about this year but that distraction cost us at both minor and senior this year. We as a club have always promoted the development squads/ county etc providing players and coaching but its getting us nowhere.  We are at long last playing with close to a full deck and enjoying a great run in the championship atm but i'm getting slightly bitter about what might have been in the league had we for example followed St.Johns and looked after ourselves first.
All things considered that's probably what we need to do.
Thats my rant over about life down here.

[Milltown Row2]

So to collate a few points;

1) If St galls attitude to promotion would be to target certain games and effectively award walk-overs in difficult away games then they should not be in Div1. I can see the stratgey here from a selfish point of view but it completely de-values the leage and the purpose of the competition. Also it hardly develops the game either in Milltown or the county. Especially given the wealth of hurlers there.

2) I have still therefore to hear anything that argues a viable alternative to at most 2teams warranting going up - but plenty of good suggestions on linking league & championship which I think is a must to increase the importance of the league. With the added benefit that it increases the balance of the championship draw.

2) Cody's emphahsis on underage development hits the nail on the head - yes we need our leagues to be competitive etc but if the work is not done before then it's too late to think that effort at senior is going to make up for years of neglect. From this point of view I do remember slating our own development squads - they are a joke. For me development squads are clubs! I know they work in other counties but the fact is that everything I have heard about them here is not exactly positive in terms of improving standards. "Here lads we'll enter this blitz down south and you can keep the rig" I am sorry but I would rather as Cody says they were nurtured by clubs with meaningful competition at home.

3) Last Man is also right we seem to be pre-occupied with making Div1 the be all & end all with little consideration of lower leagues (apologies for that term of being PC!)

By your own words you have repeatedly said that Rossa aren't great travellers, do they also de-value the league?

Concentrating of home games is what all teams do, if you can win the away games then grand, we won more away games this year in div 2 by the way

Dunloy won 2 games away from home this year, a 1 point win away to St Johns and beat the team that was relegated. What's that say about their performances away from home, did they put any effort in? I could look at other teams but you get my point

[Milltown Row2]

So to collate a few points;

1) If St galls attitude to promotion would be to target certain games and effectively award walk-overs in difficult away games then they should not be in Div1. I can see the stratgey here from a selfish point of view but it completely de-values the leage and the purpose of the competition. Also it hardly develops the game either in Milltown or the county. Especially given the wealth of hurlers there.

2) I have still therefore to hear anything that argues a viable alternative to at most 2teams warranting going up - but plenty of good suggestions on linking league & championship which I think is a must to increase the importance of the league. With the added benefit that it increases the balance of the championship draw.

2) Cody's emphahsis on underage development hits the nail on the head - yes we need our leagues to be competitive etc but if the work is not done before then it's too late to think that effort at senior is going to make up for years of neglect. From this point of view I do remember slating our own development squads - they are a joke. For me development squads are clubs! I know they work in other counties but the fact is that everything I have heard about them here is not exactly positive in terms of improving standards. "Here lads we'll enter this blitz down south and you can keep the rig" I am sorry but I would rather as Cody says they were nurtured by clubs with meaningful competition at home.

3) Last Man is also right we seem to be pre-occupied with making Div1 the be all & end all with little consideration of lower leagues (apologies for that term of being PC!)

By your own words you have repeatedly said that Rossa aren't great travellers, do they also de-value the league?

Yeah, we lost one away game this year. That journey to Sarsfields is a right balax though.

Not your words HS, your fellow Rossa man