The OFFICIAL Liverpool FC thread - #DankeJürgen

[Bensars]

Dont think anything has gone wrong, more a case of reality setting in.

Liverpool had been thought of to be  outside the top 5 teams by most observers other than actual liverpool fans. Thats where they are, a second tier premiership side.

Thought Dalglish had started well, more in terms of his handling of press and more or less the message that things will be dealt with in house akin to the old days. His relationship with the press has since nosedived where he has become an almost pantomine interview, where they know he will react given certain questions.

In regards to performances and the fact that from 1st jan they are the second worst team in the league, the silence is deafening. The amount of Liverpools fans who called out for RH to be sacked have suddenly gone quiet.

Although Dalglish may have been a brilliant player, he certainly is'nt  up to it in contrast to others  in the premier league. All the excuses of give him time, more signings in summer etc are excuses by some who dont want to tarnish the reputation of a former playing idol, understandably.

Second tier team ( for some considerable time now), and league placing at the minute is about right.

The problem is that Liverpools supporters expectations are from the 1970's and early 80's and they have no given right to be a top 4 side. They are quite a distance from it.

[Hound]

One clear difference between Dalglish and Hodgson is style of football.
The style of football under Hodgson was diabolical. That combined with poor results put the fans against him. Liverpool fans are generally patient with managers, but Hodgson was a clear exception because of his tactics.

Liverpool at least try to play football properly under Dalglish. At times they've looked very good, but cutting edge is what's often lacking. And its a lot more to do with not creating chances than missing chances. Suarez and Carroll have been living off scraps, and when chances are scarce there's a higher liklihood of them being snatched.

Some strange games too recently since the cup win. Played super against Arsenal, dominated the enitre game, but the ball wouldnt go in, and van Persie hit two superb finishes out of nothing. Played well against QPR but completely inexplicably went to pieces in the last 10 minutes, and played really well when hammering Everton. But then no excuses for the rubbish produced v Sunderland and Wigan.

Agger's been a huge loss as at least they were very solid at the back when he was there alongside Skrtel. Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez all missed plenty of games too, which has been costly.

[screenexile]

One clear difference between Dalglish and Hodgson is style of football.
The style of football under Hodgson was diabolical. That combined with poor results put the fans against him. Liverpool fans are generally patient with managers, but Hodgson was a clear exception because of his tactics.

Liverpool at least try to play football properly under Dalglish. At times they've looked very good, but cutting edge is what's often lacking. And its a lot more to do with not creating chances than missing chances. Suarez and Carroll have been living off scraps, and when chances are scarce there's a higher liklihood of them being snatched.

Some strange games too recently since the cup win. Played super against Arsenal, dominated the enitre game, but the ball wouldnt go in, and van Persie hit two superb finishes out of nothing. Played well against QPR but completely inexplicably went to pieces in the last 10 minutes, and played really well when hammering Everton. But then no excuses for the rubbish produced v Sunderland and Wigan.

Agger's been a huge loss as at least they were very solid at the back when he was there alongside Skrtel. Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez all missed plenty of games too, which has been costly.

Plus lads like Shelvey, Spearing and Henderson are clearly not up to the level required!

[AZOffaly]

One clear difference between Dalglish and Hodgson is style of football.
The style of football under Hodgson was diabolical. That combined with poor results put the fans against him. Liverpool fans are generally patient with managers, but Hodgson was a clear exception because of his tactics.

Liverpool at least try to play football properly under Dalglish. At times they've looked very good, but cutting edge is what's often lacking. And its a lot more to do with not creating chances than missing chances. Suarez and Carroll have been living off scraps, and when chances are scarce there's a higher liklihood of them being snatched.

Some strange games too recently since the cup win. Played super against Arsenal, dominated the enitre game, but the ball wouldnt go in, and van Persie hit two superb finishes out of nothing. Played well against QPR but completely inexplicably went to pieces in the last 10 minutes, and played really well when hammering Everton. But then no excuses for the rubbish produced v Sunderland and Wigan.

Agger's been a huge loss as at least they were very solid at the back when he was there alongside Skrtel. Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez all missed plenty of games too, which has been costly.

I agree with all of this, apart from exonerating the strikers from blame. The main difference between Hodgson and KK's reigns is that Hodgson's style of play, and his general demeanour in press conferences etc, were just cat. He was defeatist in everything he did.

Kenny has at least turned the style of play around, and a few more goals from our alleged strikers would have made a huge difference. As it is this season started peetering out as soon as we lost to Arsenal.

There is no doubt that Liverpool are a long way from where they need to be (as we've said numerous times this season), but I do believe Dalglish is capable of bringing them much further along the line, patience is a rare virtue in soccer fans these days, but changing for change's sake is no good. I would only like to see one or two more signings this summer, and see if the likes of Carroll, Downing, Henderson etc can do the job next season.

Do you persist with Dalglish's ideals for Liverpool, despite a horrendous run of form, or do you get rid of him because you think Liverpool should be winning the league every year? To me it's a no brainer. To borrow from Harry Enfield 'Calm down eh, Calm down'.

[ludermor]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/02/liverpool-dismal-league-campaign?fb=native
Ten facts to put Liverpool's dismal league campaign into contextIf the Premier League had started on New Year's Day, Liverpool would be 19th in the table – and that's only for starters
1 If the Premier League had started on New Year's Day, Liverpool, with eight points from 12 games, would be 19th in the table, with only Wolverhampton Wanderers below

Top six

1 Man Utd 28pts

2 Man City 26pts

3 Newcastle 23pts

4 Sunderland 23pts

5 Arsenal 22pts

6 Everton 22pts

Bottom six

15 Wigan 13pts

16 Stoke 12pts

17 QPR 11pts

18 Aston Villa 10pts

19 Liverpool 8pts

20 Wolves 5pts


2 Liverpool are 16 points off fourth place and entry into next season's Champions League qualifiers, their stated aim at the start of this campaign. They are closer to the relegation zone, being only 14 points ahead of 18th-placed Queens Park Rangers

4 Tottenham 58pts

8 Liverpool 42pts

18 QPR 28pts


3 Liverpool have lost six of their last seven league games. The last time they endured such a poor run of form was in 1953-54, when they were relegated


4 1953-54 was also the last time Liverpool had such a poor points per game ratio in the top flight (correcting the discrepancy of the old two-points-for-a-win system). Liverpool's current points per game ratio is a lowly 1.35, 42 points in 31 games


5 Liverpool's goals per game ratio is 1.16, 36 goals in 31 games, making this Liverpool team the least frequent scorers since the 1991-92 season under Graeme Souness


6 Liverpool have never had a season in which both their points and goal per game ratios were so low. The closest is 1923-24, when they recorded 41 points in 42 games (0.98) and 49 goals (1.17)


7 Liverpool's home form has been particularly poor, winning only five of their 15 games at Anfield, or 33%. Again we need to go back to 1953-54 for the last time when they won so few, seven of 21 in the relegation season


8 Liverpool's goal difference is +3. Liverpool have not had such a low goal difference at the end of a season since 1964-65, when it stood at -6


9 Liverpool's top scorer in the league is Luis Suárez, with seven goals in 26 games. Only once in the Premier League era have Liverpool gone through a season without one of their players reaching double figures in league goals, 2004-05 when Milan Baros scored nine times


10 2004-05 was also the only Premier League season in which Liverpool finished below Everton in the table. But Everton, in seventh, currently sit one place and one point above Liverpool

[EagleLord]

God that makes for depressing reading.

[magpie seanie]

Just seen the highlights. Shocking stuff. Unlucky with the pen call for handball but very poor attitude from players. All is not well. Reina hardly touched him but still threw the head so had to go. Big loss for the semi. 2 league wins in 2012 says it all.

Should have been a red card too. Another example of the top teams getting all the calls at home against the weaker ones.....

[Agent Orange]

Andy Carrol has apologised to Dalglish for walking down the tunnel after being subbed yesterday, he said he was aiming for the bench.

[Armamike]

One clear difference between Dalglish and Hodgson is style of football.
The style of football under Hodgson was diabolical. That combined with poor results put the fans against him. Liverpool fans are generally patient with managers, but Hodgson was a clear exception because of his tactics.

Liverpool at least try to play football properly under Dalglish. At times they've looked very good, but cutting edge is what's often lacking. And its a lot more to do with not creating chances than missing chances. Suarez and Carroll have been living off scraps, and when chances are scarce there's a higher liklihood of them being snatched.

Some strange games too recently since the cup win. Played super against Arsenal, dominated the enitre game, but the ball wouldnt go in, and van Persie hit two superb finishes out of nothing. Played well against QPR but completely inexplicably went to pieces in the last 10 minutes, and played really well when hammering Everton. But then no excuses for the rubbish produced v Sunderland and Wigan.

Agger's been a huge loss as at least they were very solid at the back when he was there alongside Skrtel. Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez all missed plenty of games too, which has been costly.

I agree with all of this, apart from exonerating the strikers from blame. The main difference between Hodgson and KK's reigns is that Hodgson's style of play, and his general demeanour in press conferences etc, were just cat. He was defeatist in everything he did.

Kenny has at least turned the style of play around, and a few more goals from our alleged strikers would have made a huge difference. As it is this season started peetering out as soon as we lost to Arsenal.

There is no doubt that Liverpool are a long way from where they need to be (as we've said numerous times this season), but I do believe Dalglish is capable of bringing them much further along the line, patience is a rare virtue in soccer fans these days, but changing for change's sake is no good. I would only like to see one or two more signings this summer, and see if the likes of Carroll, Downing, Henderson etc can do the job next season.

Do you persist with Dalglish's ideals for Liverpool, despite a horrendous run of form, or do you get rid of him because you think Liverpool should be winning the league every year? To me it's a no brainer. To borrow from Harry Enfield 'Calm down eh, Calm down'.

Why do you believe that?  A bit of blind faith or based on something Kenny did many moons ago with lots of cash at his disposal? I really hoped Kenny would bring the club on after a very promising start last year, but his signings haven't been anywhere near good enough and it's extreme optimism/delusion to think they're going to come good next year.  They've had a full season to acclimatise - how long does it take?   

[supersub]

One thing you have to ask is if it is really the fact that the players aren't up to it? For example, Carroll was looking a real player at Newcastle, Adam was a master at Blackpool, Henderson stood out at Sunderland, Downing was a real threat at Villa - surely with this talent they don't turn into average players over the course of 6 months. Similarly if Liverpool had the xi newcastle have and weren't doing well it would be because tiote is a clown, collocini can't defend, the bench lacks depth etc, but the fact is these players are playing out of their skin at the moment for their club, there is a togetherness and passion about how they are performing. The same as Sunderland, Swansea and Norwich this season. They are all players who are arguably lesser than the talent Liverpool have at their disposal but are playing twice as well player for player in most cases. I don't think the problem lies within footballin ability of the personnel available, but the motivation, passion and consistency that comes with being part of a winning set up. This may be down to management and other off field influences but whatever it is needs sorted ASAP. The player available should be able to play to a level expectant of them at LFC end of story.

[EagleLord]

Well said supersub, spot on. Them boys just dont turn dung overnight. Just need to get the best out of them.

[Minus15]

How do you sum up the situation at the moment? 6 defeats in 7 league games and only 2 League wins since the turn of the year.

As a Liverpool fan, things aren't great are they? I was at the Carling Cup Semi 2nd Leg against Man City and Anfield was electric that night. I was delighted as anyone to see us win the Final. We may yet win the FA Cup too but I feel that the lack of a challenge for the Champions League places will ultimately see Kenny Dalglish replaced this summer.

So how can Liverpool finish the season with 2 trophies having not won a trophy at all in 6 years and still think about replacing their manager? Quite simply, there have been failings this season that won't be overlooked by our American Owners. The truth is we do not know enough about them yet. We have never seen them make big decisions. The romanticism associated with Dalglish's return last season undoubtedly gave everyone a great lift. It was refreshing to have a maanger who understood every aspect of the Football Club. The simplicity of his approach appeared to trasnspire to the players who performed admirably in the latter third of the season, finishing the season as one of the form teams in the league. We had brought in Luiz Suarez, who had some great performances and settled so quickly and we had Andy Carroll who after some injury frustrations at first had shown glimpses of his ability and had provided plenty of hope for the future. Throw in Fernando Torres' failures and it seemed business had been good and Liverpool were looking forward to life after El Nino. Youth were being given a chance too. If the new owners had have decided not to give Kenny the job following the end to last season they would have been the subject of abuse from Reds fans. And rightly so. Kenny had got a 2-year contract along with Steve Clarke. Everyone was happy.

So there we were primed for a summer where new additions would be made to take us back in the right direction once again. A trophy would be nice. Qualification for The Champions League would show real progress. Between Kenny and Damien Commoli, new players were acquired in the form of Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson, Stewart Downing, Craig Bellamy and Jose Enrique. Areas of the team that had looked weak in recent seasons had been improved. We had finally got a Left Back who has had a decent season but has struggled the last couple of months when the team has too.

Bellamy has a great attitude, will to win and outlook on the game and he has been a success. The other 3 have been disappointing. Downing and Adam have had good days and bad days. Both have ability but remain inconsitent. Henderson I think has had far too much game time. I believe he will be a good player in time but is not quite ready. He seems to want to pass on responsiibility too much. He passes the ball to the nearest team mate too often and should shoot more often. However, he has been played out of position mostly on the right ahead of Dirk Kuyt, who after arguably being the standout player of the second half of last season alongside Maxi Rodriguez has falling out of favour most of the time.

As this season has gone on, Kenny's interviews have become more and more exasperating, boring and paranoid. Sometimes his defending of the actions of some has been tiresome. The whole Suarez affair has been disappointing. Hindsight has shown that it was all handled so poorly. For me, the silence of the owners tells a story. None of us know what they make of it all. I would not be at all surprised if they are already searching and sounding out possible candidates.

Would anyone take Benitez back? There is a man who also knows what it means to be Liverpool manager and what is expected from the team by the fans. Perhaps guilty of playing politics too often in the past, we know the guy was in a difficult situation last time round. Towards the end of his reign there was talk of player unrest / lack of faith. Big players wanted to leave. There was the Torres substitution when Gerrard was shocked that had begun to show that the players weren't really behind him. However, I think that things started to go wrong for Benitez whenever he had no more support from above. He took his eye off his day to day battles in my opinion in an attempt to win the War and that proved his and the team's undoing in the long run. I know that if he had full support of the new owners to build a team once again and make the key decisions within an agreed strategy them he would walk back in tomorrow. Rafa has the character and the ability to do that.

One thing that is really beginning to annoy me is the conduct of the Liverpool players on the pitch at times. Suarez's actions for me are defended too quickly. Every time he loses the ball he is hitting the deck or giving out to the linesman or sreaming at the Referee. Get up Suarez, play fair and quit yapping. I heard Kenny on the radio this morning saying that the disallowed goal against Wigan hit Suarez on the chest and should have stood. There was a clear push on the defender anyway.  Pepe Reina is clearly frustrated at this season's collapse and we could find oursleves without him should we go another season like this.

You can really see that the quality of the team isn't what it used to be. A couple of years ago we were worrying about the departures of players like Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano and Reina should the team continue to underachieve. Right now, we are hardly saying we are worrying that their replacements Carroll, Spearing and Adam may leave too. For those players, and Downing and Henderson, they are in dreamland playing for a club like Liverpool. You just don't see Barcelona or Real Madrid touching these guys.

Maybe we are all deluded expecting that things should be better. But things can be better. For me, tactically, Kenny and co are not at the level required. Someone mentioned giving him to Christmas. Liverpool do not need another mid season change. Then that is another season wasted.

If the owners are going to act this summer, and I think they will, they need to get a proven manager at the top level with the ability to build a team to bring Liverpool back to challenge for the top four. I would give the new man a license to clear out and start afresh. I reckon Benitez could surely bring Liverpool back to that level again. Given the right backing he could just be the man.

[J70]

The Suarez issue and the very poor way it was handled, along with the chronic lack of goals all year and resulting dropping of stupid points, have been the sources of everything else that has gone wrong. The more recent awful displays are simply a product of confidence in the team and each other disappearing in the wake of those other issues.

[Dinny Breen]

[Denn Forever]

Very good but who is the girl?