Author Topic: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)  (Read 286792 times)

The Subbie

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4725 on: May 23, 2017, 09:54:04 PM »
Seanie might be a bollix, but he is entitled to due process.
There is a need for investigation of the regulators, who don't seem to know what they are at, first letting the likes of Anglo do what they liked and then coaching witnesses afterwards.

He's entitled to due process alright. But I don't believe it wasn't. I think it was a farce. A get out of jail for one of the boys. You can believe that it was incompetency. I believe it is just corruption.

I wish we had a like button,I'd wear it out for this.
Well said, nail on head.

magpie seanie

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4726 on: May 24, 2017, 12:31:07 AM »
Seanie might be a bollix, but he is entitled to due process.
There is a need for investigation of the regulators, who don't seem to know what they are at, first letting the likes of Anglo do what they liked and then coaching witnesses afterwards.

He's entitled to due process alright. But I don't believe it wasn't. I think it was a farce. A get out of jail for one of the boys. You can believe that it was incompetency. I believe it is just corruption.

I wish we had a like button,I'd wear it out for this.
Well said, nail on head.

I agree. I'd say they're all drinking champagne in some gold club somewhere now.

armaghniac

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4727 on: May 24, 2017, 12:48:36 AM »
Seanie might be a bollix, but he is entitled to due process.
There is a need for investigation of the regulators, who don't seem to know what they are at, first letting the likes of Anglo do what they liked and then coaching witnesses afterwards.

He's entitled to due process alright. But I don't believe it wasn't. I think it was a farce. A get out of jail for one of the boys. You can believe that it was incompetency. I believe it is just corruption.

Once again you are choosing to "believe" without knowing the facts, that approach is where the problem lies.

Having watched RTÉ on the matter, I suspect that they just didn't fork out for a lawyer used to running a heavyweight criminal trial and the desk lawyers on the staff simply weren't used to it. Criminal work must be beyond reasonable doubt and you need to be clear what you are at.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Declan

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4728 on: May 24, 2017, 07:58:53 AM »
Quote
I suspect that they just didn't fork out for a lawyer used to running a heavyweight criminal trial and the desk lawyers on the staff simply weren't used to it. Criminal work must be beyond reasonable doubt and you need to be clear what you are at.

Spot on so questions to be asked should include:
How could the ODCE leave a lawyer with no criminal law experience in charge of one of the most high profile banking cases in State history?
ODCE claims it reformed in 2012 after shambolic Sean Fitzpatrick inquiry. Really? It had ZERO forensic accountants employed between 2015-16
Central Bank set up hotline for whistleblowers in 2014. This yr, Indo revealed it had no one assigned to answer calls & no answering machine

The conspiracy theorist in me says the answers are obvious - there was never any intention or will to prosecute Seanie - the lead investigator shredded evidence and then went sick on stress related leave -
Coaching witnesses -writing statements for them and copying sections from one to another - all sounds very familiar MO for our ruling classes

trueblue1234

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4729 on: May 24, 2017, 09:00:25 AM »
Seanie might be a bollix, but he is entitled to due process.
There is a need for investigation of the regulators, who don't seem to know what they are at, first letting the likes of Anglo do what they liked and then coaching witnesses afterwards.

He's entitled to due process alright. But I don't believe it wasn't. I think it was a farce. A get out of jail for one of the boys. You can believe that it was incompetency. I believe it is just corruption.

Once again you are choosing to "believe" without knowing the facts, that approach is where the problem lies.

Having watched RTÉ on the matter, I suspect that they just didn't fork out for a lawyer used to running a heavyweight criminal trial and the desk lawyers on the staff simply weren't used to it. Criminal work must be beyond reasonable doubt and you need to be clear what you are at.

I agree I am choosing to believe. It's a judgement call. Just the same as you believe that they "Didn't fork out for a lawyer used to running a heavyweight criminal trial". I actually find that option less believable. I said at the start of this trial that they would end up getting him off on a technicality (I actually thought they would have the decency to convict him of some of the lower end charges!!) and low and behold the judge stops it going to a jury.  It's corruption, and I think most people will see it for that. We knew the politics of the country were  corrupt as f&8k, but you would hope the courts would be unaffected.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

armaghniac

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4730 on: May 24, 2017, 11:57:24 AM »
Well of course if Seanie had been brought down other stories about the regulator over the years might have emerged as well, we couldn't have that, could we?
But the point is that we live in a place where nobody will hold anyone responsible for this and if they had hired a team of crack lawyers this would have led to just as much complaint about spending money and where if a forensic accountant earns more than the "average industrial wage" then there are many on the left and right of politics who would prevent the State hiring him.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

trueblue1234

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4731 on: May 24, 2017, 12:19:39 PM »
We had an opportunity to hold someone responsible. But as you say focus on Fitzpatrick would have resulted in even more corruption by the regulator coming to light. So I believe, as Declan says, there was a deal cut to get Fitz off on all charges and a big brush to sweep it under the carpet.
I would rather there was people crying about the cost of the trial than on the honesty and integrity of the state/courts. It's made a joke out of the whole thing. But there's not be a thing done or said about it cause realistically what can be done. Just accept that we're in a corrupt state with no backbone.   
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Avondhu star

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4732 on: May 24, 2017, 12:32:48 PM »
If you want the best prosecution lawyer who can prepare a case that will nail someone then you must be prepared to pay them top fees. You wont get that on the average industrial wage. That applies to every profession. This country begrudges anyone who makes good money and as a result you get tuppence halpenny performances. You can bet Seanies legal team were on good fees and bonuses.
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grounded

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4733 on: May 24, 2017, 01:51:24 PM »
Whitewash pure and simple. Is anyone even in the slightest surprised that he got off?

Declan

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4734 on: May 24, 2017, 02:27:33 PM »
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You can bet Seanies legal team were on good fees and bonuses.
with all costs to the taxpayer

Smokin Joe

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4735 on: May 24, 2017, 06:43:36 PM »
I heard on Matt Cooper tonight that they eventually hired a few forensic accountants in about 2015.  Have we any idea what the salary would have been; and how that would compare to what they would earn in PWC or the likes?

The irony that the State is picking up the tab for Seanie's expensive legal team as a result of them failing to pay market rate to ensure they got the smart and capable individuals working on behalf of the State

Rois

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4736 on: May 24, 2017, 07:30:15 PM »
I heard on Matt Cooper tonight that they eventually hired a few forensic accountants in about 2015.  Have we any idea what the salary would have been; and how that would compare to what they would earn in PWC or the likes?

The irony that the State is picking up the tab for Seanie's expensive legal team as a result of them failing to pay market rate to ensure they got the smart and capable individuals working on behalf of the State
Probably seconded them in from Big 4.

Main Street

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4737 on: May 25, 2017, 08:25:06 PM »
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I presume the thing wasn't proved beyond reasonable doubt??

Didn't even get to a jury decision

AFTER THE LONGEST-running criminal trial in the history of the State, Seán Fitzpatrick has been acquitted of all charges.
.......
Judge Aylmer also pointed to the extraordinary circumstances in which the ODCE lead investigator, Kevin O’Connell had admitted destroyed potentially relevant documentary evidence. This happened during legal argument in the first trial in May 2015 and emerged during that process.
That trial was then stopped and the retrial of FitzPatrick began last September. It was scheduled to last three months but quickly became bogged down in weeks of legal argument in the absence of the jury.
What are the chances of a solicitor having a panic attack just at the time he was close to reams of valuable evidence, then rushing to the shredder in a mad frenzied panic, destroying all that evidence, in one of the country's greatest banking fraud cases?
Not even Hitchcock could have dreamed up that episode.

The Subbie

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Re: The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)
« Reply #4738 on: May 26, 2017, 01:36:00 AM »
If you want the best prosecution lawyer who can prepare a case that will nail someone then you must be prepared to pay them top fees. You wont get that on the average industrial wage. That applies to every profession. This country begrudges anyone who makes good money and as a result you get tuppence halpenny performances. You can bet Seanies legal team were on good fees and bonuses.

 Correct

What I am curious about though is , was the decision to go with the budget option made purely for budgetary reasons or for more nefarious reasons ?
My head tells me the latter