The Southern "Irish"

[Maguire01]

I worked in Dublin for  a year between 2004 - 2005 and I was shocked by the lack of knowledge the people I worked with had of "The North"

Well I worked in Dublin from 2002-2006 & I was equally shocked about their lack of knowledge of "The West"

And I have worked in Dublin since 1984, and am still shocked that they don't even know where Longford is (except for the few Jackeens who came down to see us in 2007).

I think it's a 'people from cities' thing, rather than a southern ignorance regarding the North. I'd bet that a good few people from Belfast would know little about the South and in cases, little about the rest of the North outside of Belfast.
GAA people are probably better up on these things than others, due to the inter-county competitions.

[Rav67]

I worked in Dublin for  a year between 2004 - 2005 and I was shocked by the lack of knowledge the people I worked with had of "The North"

Well I worked in Dublin from 2002-2006 & I was equally shocked about their lack of knowledge of "The West"

And I have worked in Dublin since 1984, and am still shocked that they don't even know where Longford is (except for the few Jackeens who came down to see us in 2007).

I think it's a 'people from cities' thing, rather than a southern ignorance regarding the North. I'd bet that a good few people from Belfast would know little about the South and in cases, little about the rest of the North outside of Belfast.
GAA people are probably better up on these things than others, due to the inter-county competitions.

I agree.  Talking to a friend from Dublin recently who thought there was a County Athlone.  The worst of it is she has cousins from there and goes to visit them a couple of times a year!

[Roger]

So again , you are incorrect that republicans targets were solely protestant/religious motivated.

You are changing your argument.  You said they "never" targeted people based on religion.  They did.  You now agree but subsequently say I'm incorrect, but add it is "hardly surprising".  Bizarre reasoning. 

Now, please confirm to me that the targetting of nationalists was religiously motivated by the perportrating unionist/loyalist/crown forces/b specials etc factions before/at the beginning/after 1968 periods - and that was the reason that caused nationalists/catholics to retaliate !

I have claimed no such thing that there were sectarian murders.  Each of the groups you list above would contend, like you do for republicans, that it has never their mantra to kill people based on their religion.  It is a sad fact that actions contradict mantras.  Take your blinkers off and you might see that.

[Roger]

I think it's a 'people from cities' thing, rather than a southern ignorance regarding the North. I'd bet that a good few people from Belfast would know little about the South and in cases, little about the rest of the North outside of Belfast.
GAA people are probably better up on these things than others, due to the inter-county competitions.

I think that's about right.  I would be pretty knowledgable about Northern Ireland but when it comes to counties in the Republic I wouldn't be good at all especially with areas like Roscommon or Longford. Counties are an outdated British administrative carve-up anyway 

[his holiness nb]

Roger, he said religion wasnt a reason for the republicans targetting people.
You pointed out 2 incidents which contradict this.

We get it.

Lynchboys general gist is correct though, with the few exceptions which you kindly pointed out for us.

[saffron sam2]

I think it's a 'people from cities' thing, rather than a southern ignorance regarding the North. I'd bet that a good few people from Belfast would know little about the South and in cases, little about the rest of the North outside of Belfast.
GAA people are probably better up on these things than others, due to the inter-county competitions.

I think that's about right.  I would be pretty knowledgable about Northern Ireland but when it comes to counties in the Republic I wouldn't be good at all especially with areas like Roscommon or Longford. Counties are an outdated British administrative carve-up anyway 

And for that you should be eternally grateful.

[Zapatista]

I think that's about right.  I would be pretty knowledgable about Northern Ireland but when it comes to counties in the Republic I wouldn't be good at all especially with areas like Roscommon or Longford. Counties are an outdated British administrative carve-up anyway 

As is half of Asia.

[lynchbhoy]

Whereas from your posts, you are an expert not just on Republican thinking, but on Unionist thinking as well...
In which case, would you like to provide me with what my answer should be to what was originally a rhetorical question of mine, namely:

"Or would you claim that you are more threatened by seeing e.g. "Taigs Out" scrawled on one gable end than I am by seeing "Brits Out" on another wall a few streets away?"
blah
blah
blah

nope, the 'question' or more accurately, the assertion was that republican ethos was to target protestants on a religion basis only.
thats just lies.
You could however make the case of unionist/loyalist death gangs for doing that though..
It was obv that without brit enforcement the same problems wouldnt exist, as we see today as the brits slowly (but surely) pull out !

as for your taigs/brits out - I'd say that proves the whole point - it was all equal in killing but the mantra for republicans was to get rid of the british enforcement and let the nationalist/unionist/loyalists all come to the same conclusion as we now have.

[lynchbhoy]

Roger, he said religion wasnt a reason for the republicans targetting people.
You pointed out 2 incidents which contradict this.

We get it.

Lynchboys general gist is correct though, with the few exceptions which you kindly pointed out for us.

Thanks HH
I was starting to think I was being unclear 

now we know what the problem is ...same old same old - the ostrich game!

[lynchbhoy]

Being 'proper' Irish in this dynamic has meant being Gaelic and Catholic.

you really are out of touch with reality yet again with incorrect self assumed presumptions on the rest of society.

Try telling that highlighted bit in bold to the hundreds of thousands of protestants south of the border !

Eh? Just noticed this! Hundreds of thousands of Protestants south of the border?

Population classified by religion and nationality 2006

Church of Ireland (incl. Protestant)  86,990
Other Christian Religion  16,327
Presbyterian 13,628
Methodist 5,077
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm

And surely you do know that the Protestant population in the south was much bigger? I think it's definitely a valid argument that in the past at least, being Irish meant "being Gaelic and Catholic". Much less so now, due to the diminishing role of the Church, but i don't think you can dismiss the perception that Protestants in the north may have.

ok hundred thousand then
the point still stands though...

[Maguire01]

What point?

[lynchbhoy]

What point?

go read BEFORE the part you posted 

[Maguire01]

What point?

go read BEFORE the part you posted 

I have tried.

I gathered that your point was that Protestants in the South had no issues with living in what was essentially a Catholic state. Indeed there are hundreds of thousands of them. Only there aren't. And the fact that their numbers have depleted so significantly since partition surely counters your argument, rather than making your point.

But do feel free to clarify. Or you could just roll your eyes again.

[lynchbhoy]

What point?

go read BEFORE the part you posted 

I have tried.

I gathered that your point was that Protestants in the South had no issues with living in what was essentially a Catholic state. Indeed there are hundreds of thousands of them. Only there aren't. And the fact that their numbers have depleted so significantly since partition surely counters your argument, rather than making your point.

But do feel free to clarify. Or you could just roll your eyes again.

have they really  !
well thats news to them and the pockets of non catholics that live fully integrated with the rest of Ireland (that add up to over 100,000 - and that survey didnt inc the recent immigrants from baltic states etc)
check out any GAA or rugby club if you like...thats always a good start.

but youd know I'm sure having lived down here for so long 

[Evil Genius]

as for your taigs/brits out - I'd say that proves the whole point - it was all equal in killing but the mantra for republicans was to get rid of the british enforcement and let the nationalist/unionist/loyalists all come to the same conclusion as we now have.

Ah right, Republican killers were actually the enlightened ones, merely creating the conditions which would help the rest of us reach the (correct?) conclusion which we have now. I must say, I never saw it that way: should I be thanking you/them for that?

Except that there are just a couple of wee things which don't quite fit with that analysis. Let's leave aside e.g. the Kingsmill/Darkley/Stronge/Deering murders, since doubtless you've an "explanation" for why those weren't fundamentally sectarian in nature (even if the likes of Roger and me are so bigoted/deluded/brainwashed etc as not be able to comprehend it).

What I don't get is how the "conclusion" which we now enjoy courtesy of the Republican Armed Struggle, represents the achievement of "Brits Out", which was the mantra behind a campaign which directly killed over 2,000 people, the majority of whom were not in the British Armed Forces. I note your careful use of the phrase "get rid of british enforcement", but cannot see how that differs from "Brits Out".

For it seems to me that the Brits are still basically in charge of NI, whether that be demonstrated by the activities of those Brits in Government in Westminster, or in Stormont*, or in the Courts, or the PSNI, or HM Revenue & Customs, or even in the shape of the local Postie who empties our (red) Pillar Boxes on behalf of the (ahem) Royal Mail. And that's before we get to the sight of the Royal Irish Regiment marching proudly along Royal Avenue last year, being welcomed home undefeated by thousands of cheering "Brits"...

It wouldn't be that SF/IRA are re-writing History to try to conceal the guilt they feel over having killed thousands of their fellow Irishmen, women and children, in the name of a cause that they did not, indeed could not, ever achieve?  


* - And their SF collaborators