The Southern "Irish"

[magickingdom]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

[pintsofguinness]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

[Our Nail Loney]

I had to laugh at some stupid little f**ker from Wexford in Croke Park last year when we were playing them telling us 'loyalists' to go back up where we came from to our UVF and LVF friends!!

[Myles Na G.]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

[Myles Na G.]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

[pintsofguinness]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

So had they IRA an Irish out policy as well?
If you cant keep it sensible dont bother.

[magickingdom]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

why dont you answer the question. what size majority would suit you?

[Farrandeelin]

I had to laugh at some stupid little f**ker from Wexford in Croke Park last year when we were playing them telling us 'loyalists' to go back up where we came from to our UVF and LVF friends!!

He must be really young. Or else he hasn't much grey matter between his ears. What a shocking thing to say.

[mountainboii]

I had to laugh at some stupid little f**ker from Wexford in Croke Park last year when we were playing them telling us 'loyalists' to go back up where we came from to our UVF and LVF friends!!

He must be really young. Or else he hasn't much grey matter between his ears. What a shocking thing to say.

I've heard that type of stuff a few times at matches. "Go home yis British Bastards, etc., etc."

Not very nice. Dunno which is more disappointing: the content of the taunts, or the fact that you're being taunted by fellow Gaels in the first place

[Rossfan]

I had to laugh at some stupid little f**ker from Wexford in Croke Park last year when we were playing them telling us 'loyalists' to go back up where we came from to our UVF and LVF friends!!

He must be really young. Or else he hasn't much grey matter between his ears. What a shocking thing to say.

I've heard that type of stuff a few times at matches. "Go home yis British b**tards, etc., etc."

Not very nice. Dunno which is more disappointing: the content of the taunts, or the fact that you're being taunted by fellow Gaels in the first place

Is dóca nach féidir leo Gaeilge a labhairt ach ' oiread. plaidhceanna iad go léir.

Anyway why do people need to taunt other supporters or use foul language at them....isnt that what the officials are there for? 

[Myles Na G.]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

So had they IRA an Irish out policy as well?
If you cant keep it sensible dont bother.

Sorry, but I don't understand that comment. You'll have to say a a bit more.

[Myles Na G.]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

why dont you answer the question. what size majority would suit you?

The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.

[fred the red]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

why dont you answer the question. what size majority would suit you?

The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.

I would say if 2/3s of the island are in support of unification, then so be it. Let the people speak.

[Canalman]

By calling us "Free Staters" you are leaving yourselves wide open to the obvious retort.The inevitable squeals of indignation when some lowlife/drunk responds is sadly par for the course. I read recently of the death on old anti treaty  IRA man (from Kerry I think) who may have been the last IRA survivor of the War of Independence who seemingly refused the Irish pension on the basis of what he saw as the illegitimacy of the Southern state.While you may or may not have agreed with him I think he could safely be in a position to call someone a "Free Stater" without being a hypocrite.

As for a UI there are imo c40% of the "nationalist population" up North  who are Castle Catholics and if push came to shove wouldn't vote for an UI.This is the elephant in the parlour taboo topic which will imo have to be adressed before an UI can even be contemplated.

Now, if the British Govt pulled the massive subsidy and cut the Govt "jobs" so widespread up the North then and maybe then there might be an enforced swing towards an UI.

[lynchbhoy]

If I can take your first and last statements - I would argue that the Protestant / British aren't regarded, and never have been regarded, as properly Irish by the greater number of nationalists on the island. There are the obvious historical reasons, whereby Planter and Gael, Catholic and Protestant have been traditional enemies. In more modern times, this has translated itself into a more subtle form of in - group / out-group dynamic. Being 'proper' Irish in this dynamic has meant being Gaelic and Catholic. The early free state government formalised this by giving special place in the constitution to both the Irish language and the Catholic religion. The Catholic Church played its own role in marginalising protestants by, in the first place, teaching that anyone who wasn't a Catholic worshipped a lesser kind of God ('outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation' was part of the catechism for my parents' generation). Secondly, through the ne temere decree, it ensured that any children of mixed marrages had to be brought up as Catholics. This had the two fold effect of reducing protestant numbers on the island, as well as reinforcing the message that prods were somehow a group of our society less worthy of respect. The insistence of protestants in the north east of the island in retaining their sense of Britishness has also contributed to nationalists viewing them as second class Irish. In the minds of most nationalists, Irish and British are incompatible, therefore anyone who says they are British cannot be Irish at the same time.

I accept completely that a majority of the people on this island don't want the six counties to remain a part of the UK. The question is, how do we change it? I don't believe you can force nearly 20% of the island into an arrangement with which they are unhappy. A united Ireland only makes sense if the people within the borders of the new state are united. The consent of a sizeable majority of the population in both states is therefore necessary. Does that give unionists a veto over change? I believe the veto already exists, and has always existed, simply as a direct result of the size of the pro union population and its concentration in a handful of neighbouring counties. We could always try bombing and shooting them to see if that changes...oh, no, hang on. That's already been tried. Didn't work.

I also accept that there are some unionists who wouldn't class themselves as Irish at all. They are citizens of this island, nonetheless, and have every right to define themselves as they see fit.

you really are out of touch with reality yet again with incorrect self assumed presumptions on the rest of society.

Try telling that highlighted bit in bold to the hundreds of thousands of protestants south of the border !

the problem protestants north of the border have with any problem of 'being Irish' is with themselves.
Most people on this island call everyone born/raised etc Irish.
sure we 'allow' millions of yanks to be 'Irish' while most of them have never even been here !
How more inclusive can you get !

are you deliberately being dumb?