The Southern "Irish"

[lynchbhoy]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

think you are going to need a different source for your info than wikipedia, as its letting you down in a big way.
people were killed - no sh*t !
was it all one way , I've said to you before that there is a longer story back in the day as to who were the aggressors etc and why the whole unionist/loyalist apartheid regime and its genocidal-esque beginnings caused the nationalists to take arms and fight BACK.
Thankfully this has ceased and a normal civilisation can try to get a foothold but with idiotic mindsets like yours it will be a while yet!

[Myles Na G.]

By calling us "Free Staters" you are leaving yourselves wide open to the obvious retort.The inevitable squeals of indignation when some lowlife/drunk responds is sadly par for the course. I read recently of the death on old anti treaty  IRA man (from Kerry I think) who may have been the last IRA survivor of the War of Independence who seemingly refused the Irish pension on the basis of what he saw as the illegitimacy of the Southern state.While you may or may not have agreed with him I think he could safely be in a position to call someone a "Free Stater" without being a hypocrite.

As for a UI there are imo c40% of the "nationalist population" up North  who are Castle Catholics and if push came to shove wouldn't vote for an UI.This is the elephant in the parlour taboo topic which will imo have to be adressed before an UI can even be contemplated.

Now, if the British Govt pulled the massive subsidy and cut the Govt "jobs" so widespread up the North then and maybe then there might be an enforced swing towards an UI.

Castle Catholics (or west Brits, or Stoops) is just Shinner speak for anyone who doesn't share their unswerving commitment to building a 32 county republic over a pile of corpses. While I wouldn't try and put a figure on it, I'd agree with you that a sizeable percentage of the north's Catholics would possibly vote against a united Ireland if a vote was held tomorrow. I wouldn't stop at the north, though. I would say there'd be a good number in the south who'd also vote no once they had looked at the small print. By that I mean, when they had digested exactly what a united Ireland would mean for them financilally and culturally. If they were told that they'd be paying a couple of hundred euros extra in taxes per month, would they still be keen? When it was explained to them that they'd have to give up the tricolour and The Soldiers Song for new symbols, would they still be keen? When they realised that politicians from the 'black north' would probably hold the balance of power in any new Dail assembly and would therefore be making decisions over their lives, would they still vote yes? Answers on a postcard, please.

[cavan4ever]

Castle Catholics (or west Brits, or Stoops) is just Shinner speak for anyone who doesn't share their unswerving commitment to building a 32 county republic over a pile of corpses. While I wouldn't try and put a figure on it, I'd agree with you that a sizeable percentage of the north's Catholics would possibly vote against a united Ireland if a vote was held tomorrow. I wouldn't stop at the north, though. I would say there'd be a good number in the south who'd also vote no once they had looked at the small print. By that I mean, when they had digested exactly what a united Ireland would mean for them financilally and culturally. If they were told that they'd be paying a couple of hundred euros extra in taxes per month, would they still be keen? When it was explained to them that they'd have to give up the tricolour and The Soldiers Song for new symbols, would they still be keen? When they realised that politicians from the 'black north' would probably hold the balance of power in any new Dail assembly and would therefore be making decisions over their lives, would they still vote yes? Answers on a postcard, please.

Whats ur address?

[Our Nail Loney]

I had to laugh at some stupid little f**ker from Wexford in Croke Park last year when we were playing them telling us 'loyalists' to go back up where we came from to our UVF and LVF friends!!

He must be really young. Or else he hasn't much grey matter between his ears. What a shocking thing to say.

ye to be fair he looked about 17/18... And seemed to have some drink in him but still, what a stupid thing to say...

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

By calling us "Free Staters" you are leaving yourselves wide open to the obvious retort.The inevitable squeals of indignation when some lowlife/drunk responds is sadly par for the course. I read recently of the death on old anti treaty  IRA man (from Kerry I think) who may have been the last IRA survivor of the War of Independence who seemingly refused the Irish pension on the basis of what he saw as the illegitimacy of the Southern state.While you may or may not have agreed with him I think he could safely be in a position to call someone a "Free Stater" without being a hypocrite.

As for a UI there are imo c40% of the "nationalist population" up North  who are Castle Catholics and if push came to shove wouldn't vote for an UI.This is the elephant in the parlour taboo topic which will imo have to be adressed before an UI can even be contemplated.
Now, if the British Govt pulled the massive subsidy and cut the Govt "jobs" so widespread up the North then and maybe then there might be an enforced swing towards an UI.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that this is true and indeed I think its way way out. And I'm not sure it can be "addressed" as you're right to say that we simply won't know until "push comes to shove".

[pintsofguinness]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

So had they IRA an Irish out policy as well?
If you cant keep it sensible dont bother.

Sorry, but I don't understand that comment. You'll have to say a a bit more.

You're going on about a Brit's out policy and I pointed out that that policy was not aimed at protestants or unionists.  You countered that point by talking about protestant and unionists the IRA killed, since the IRA also killed catholics I'm asking you had they also a Catholic out policy.  We were having a sensibe discussion up until this point hence my comment about keeping it sensible.

Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

[Myles Na G.]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

So had they IRA an Irish out policy as well?
If you cant keep it sensible dont bother.

Sorry, but I don't understand that comment. You'll have to say a a bit more.

You're going on about a Brit's out policy and I pointed out that that policy was not aimed at protestants or unionists.  You countered that point by talking about protestant and unionists the IRA killed, since the IRA also killed catholics I'm asking you had they also a Catholic out policy.  We were having a sensibe discussion up until this point hence my comment about keeping it sensible.

Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

No link, I'm afraid. I'm fairly sure the interview was in The Guardian and would've been some time in the 80's (as he was in prison from 1990), but the online archive for that paper only goes back to 1991. 

The IRA killed Catholics as part of their campaign against the British, either by way of 'collateral damage' (if you were caught up in one of their mistakes, which were many), or by way of an intentional act aimed at Catholics working as part of the British 'war machine'. (police, udr, contractors working for security forces, so called informers, etc). That in no way diminishes the fact that this was the outworkings of a 'Brits Out' policy.

[magickingdom]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

why dont you answer the question. what size majority would suit you?

The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.

3rd time of asking, what size majority would suit you? (course you cant answer it and i only ask to highlight the nonsense your talking)

[Myles Na G.]

it is not a requirement to have the consent of a majority of Unionist voters for a United Ireland.
There is little or no prospect of swinging a majority of Unionists as they are vehemently opposed to Irish unification and determined to continue with the Union.
Afaia the constitution requirement is just for a simple majority of voters in the 6 counties to consent to end membership of the UK.
Only a relatively small % of Unionist voters are required for this consent.

Bertie Ahern recently spoke out against change on the basis of a narrow majority. I'm with Bertie.

really? do you want to think about that statement again. all your lip for the last few pages and then you come out with this. any particular size of majority suit you? or is it that your just not a democrat? what shite...

ps bertie said alot of things that might or might not or did or didnt depending on the day

That's a fair summary of your post. Come back when you've a few manners on you.

why dont you answer the question. what size majority would suit you?

The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.

3rd time of asking, what size majority would suit you? (course you cant answer it and i only ask to highlight the nonsense your talking)

2nd time of answering: The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.
If you still have problems with that let me know and I'll post it again. 

[magickingdom]

2nd time of answering: The kind of majority that would make a new all Ireland state viable, rather than a larger version of the 6 county state with all the same problems.
If you still have problems with that let me know and I'll post it again. 

i still have a problem but dont bother posting again. 55%, 60% 75% why not 45% (because its already there?!) i'll hazzard a guess that nothing would actually satisfy you

[Son_of_Sam]

I worked in Dublin for  a year between 2004 - 2005 and I was shocked by the lack of knowledge the people I worked with had of "The North"

Well I worked in Dublin from 2002-2006 & I was equally shocked about their lack of knowledge of "The West"

[Roger]

When it was explained to them that they'd have to give up the tricolour and The Soldiers Song for new symbols, would they still be keen?

Why do you say this?  There appears no evidence to suggest the nationalists or republicans have ever or would ever consider changing the trickler or SS is even under circumstances envisaged in your hypothetical situation. 

[lynchbhoy]

Myles

If you notice, I said 'properly Irish', not 'Irish like Gerry Adams'. Many unionists consider themselves both Irish and British, which I'd imagine Gerry doesn't. The 'Brits Out' policy operated by Gerry's party is as good a way of saying to one section of the population that they're not really Irish and they're not really welcome. I once read an interview with Danny Morrison when he was publicity director for the Shinners. He showed his deep knowledge and understanding of the unionist community by suggesting that their rights would be protected in a united Ireland by making sure they had access to contraception. He then went on to say that if they were really, really unhappy, they could always consider 'repatriation' to GB. How can you repatriate someone who belongs here?

The Brits out policy was not about removing protestants or unionists but about removing the British governments rule and interference in our affairs and their army. 
Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

and shock horror religions are trying to get people to follow them 

The Brits Out policy removed quite a few protestants / unionists, not just from Ireland, but from the planet. Try telling their families that this wasn't a war against them.

So had they IRA an Irish out policy as well?
If you cant keep it sensible dont bother.

Sorry, but I don't understand that comment. You'll have to say a a bit more.

You're going on about a Brit's out policy and I pointed out that that policy was not aimed at protestants or unionists.  You countered that point by talking about protestant and unionists the IRA killed, since the IRA also killed catholics I'm asking you had they also a Catholic out policy.  We were having a sensibe discussion up until this point hence my comment about keeping it sensible.

Have you got a link for that Morrison interview?

No link, I'm afraid. I'm fairly sure the interview was in The Guardian and would've been some time in the 80's (as he was in prison from 1990), but the online archive for that paper only goes back to 1991. 

The IRA killed Catholics as part of their campaign against the British, either by way of 'collateral damage' (if you were caught up in one of their mistakes, which were many), or by way of an intentional act aimed at Catholics working as part of the British 'war machine'. (police, udr, contractors working for security forces, so called informers, etc). That in no way diminishes the fact that this was the outworkings of a 'Brits Out' policy.

you obv dont want to acknowledge that the 'policy' was initially to protect the victimised oppressed and under seige nationalists.
Then once the pogams etc were stiffled and the outside world was now watching so the same treatment couldnt be metted out any furthe, the source of the problem was the target - ie british enforcement (ok it might not have been the source , but was the empowerment of unionist/loyalist apartheid rule).
Brits out was to get rid of the iron fist that backed up the unionist/loyalist muder death squads.
Would it have suited you better it nationalists took their beating, lives ruined and subsequent mass deaths and said/did nothing?
The targets were never protestant or catholic for their religion (unlike the unionist/loyalist/crown forces targets)

[Roger]

The targets were never protestant or catholic for their religion (unlike the unionist/loyalist/crown forces targets)

There was so much spin and propaganda in that post it sounded like it was straight out of Danny Morrison's mouth. 

However, the above line is a bare-faced lie.

[lynchbhoy]

The targets were never protestant or catholic for their religion (unlike the unionist/loyalist/crown forces targets)

There was so much spin and propaganda in that post it sounded like it was straight out of Danny Morrison's mouth. 

However, the above line is a bare-faced lie.

nope yer 100% incorrect