Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[armaghniac]

Draw was early October. Season tickets were late October. About a 2.5 week difference.

This is why I imagine the GAA may be scared of a claim for fraudulent misselling.

Thanks David. So any H&S issues would've been avoided had all the knowledge to hand been considered (ie. "we can only sell a small number of Armagh season tickets because one of the venues they're playing in is quite small").

They've opted to sell more tickets than the already known home venue can hold. That's nothing to do with H&S and you'd have to be naive to think they didn't consider that at the time. I'd guess they thought they could get Antrim to rollover

No, they established a policy that grounds would be reviewed for suitability and sold tickets on that basis. Some Antrim players are attempting to overthrow the decision of the association in that regard. The principle of grounds having to be suitable existed before either draw was made or the tickets were sold.

Do you have the actual text of the rule to hand? I saw it somewhere earlier but can't remember where

I can't see the rule but I see this from a news article. The H&S issue is a self made one due to too many tickets being sold after the venue was known. Had they sold fewer tickets to stay within the capacity of the venue (which they knew) then there's no issue.

That's nothing to do with Antrim.

However, in a statement to RTÉ Sport, Ulster GAA said Corrigan Park's capacity does not meet the "required health and safety standard" to stage the match and that discussions remain ongoing with Antrim GAA.

"Home venues for senior inter-county championship games are subject to the approval of the relevant CCC, and they must be in compliance with health and safety standards," a spokesperson for Ulster GAA said.

"Corrigan Park has a certified capacity of 4,000. The minimum number of tickets required to accommodate this fixture (including players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc) will exceed the venue capacity. Therefore, Corrigan Park does not meet the required health and safety standard to accommodate this fixture.

The wording of the rule (6.12 part J) is this:

Note: Home Venues for all Senior Inter County Championship games shall be subject to
approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set
down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee

Add this rule to what the Ulster Council are saying and that's really the matter closed.

I would like Antrim to get this home tie, I really would. But I fail to see how.

So why over sell tickets knowing they could not meet this criteria?

They can meet the criteria, there are a dozen suitable grounds in Ulster, just not any in Antrim.

[Milltown Row2]

Draw was early October. Season tickets were late October. About a 2.5 week difference.

This is why I imagine the GAA may be scared of a claim for fraudulent misselling.

Thanks David. So any H&S issues would've been avoided had all the knowledge to hand been considered (ie. "we can only sell a small number of Armagh season tickets because one of the venues they're playing in is quite small").

They've opted to sell more tickets than the already known home venue can hold. That's nothing to do with H&S and you'd have to be naive to think they didn't consider that at the time. I'd guess they thought they could get Antrim to rollover

No, they established a policy that grounds would be reviewed for suitability and sold tickets on that basis. Some Antrim players are attempting to overthrow the decision of the association in that regard. The principle of grounds having to be suitable existed before either draw was made or the tickets were sold.

Do you have the actual text of the rule to hand? I saw it somewhere earlier but can't remember where

I can't see the rule but I see this from a news article. The H&S issue is a self made one due to too many tickets being sold after the venue was known. Had they sold fewer tickets to stay within the capacity of the venue (which they knew) then there's no issue.

That's nothing to do with Antrim.

However, in a statement to RTÉ Sport, Ulster GAA said Corrigan Park's capacity does not meet the "required health and safety standard" to stage the match and that discussions remain ongoing with Antrim GAA.

"Home venues for senior inter-county championship games are subject to the approval of the relevant CCC, and they must be in compliance with health and safety standards," a spokesperson for Ulster GAA said.

"Corrigan Park has a certified capacity of 4,000. The minimum number of tickets required to accommodate this fixture (including players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc) will exceed the venue capacity. Therefore, Corrigan Park does not meet the required health and safety standard to accommodate this fixture.

The wording of the rule (6.12 part J) is this:

Note: Home Venues for all Senior Inter County Championship games shall be subject to
approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set
down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee

Add this rule to what the Ulster Council are saying and that's really the matter closed.

I would like Antrim to get this home tie, I really would. But I fail to see how.

So why over sell tickets knowing they could not meet this criteria?

They can meet the criteria, there are a dozen suitable grounds in Ulster, just not any in Antrim.

Can Ballycastle meet that criteria?

[Spiderlegs]

So why over sell tickets knowing they could not meet this criteria?

Now think about what youre saying here:

"Armagh fans, we're cutting the amount of season tickets your county can get this year because you went and done the dreaded drawing Antrim at Corrigan Park thing... We're gonna go ahead and sell Dublin and Mayo their full allocation, we'll do the same for Cork, Clare and Limerick hurlers... But for you, well maybe better luck next year"

[Milltown Row2]

So why over sell tickets knowing they could not meet this criteria?

Now think about what youre saying here:

"Armagh fans, we're cutting the amount of season tickets your county can get this year because you went and done the dreaded drawing Antrim at Corrigan Park thing... We're gonna go ahead and sell Dublin and Mayo their full allocation, we'll do the same for Cork, Clare and Limerick hurlers... But for you, well maybe better luck next year"

Nope, they are cutting them for the game against Antrim, if they are drawn out first. The rule that has been put up is for HS, not capacity.

Ballycastle holds 4,900 maybe best to move it to the second County ground, would that facility be ok?

Armagh not playing the match the supporters will lose out anyways. 

[bannside]

Some people here are under the assumption Antrim will only use a couple of hundred tickets as they have no support. If so, then do the Maths. Is there really likely to be many Armagh season ticket holders missing out?

David McKeowns fear of £.5m possible litigation has just suddenly vanished into thin air!

The season ticket fiasco is a smokescreen for the bigger picture of provincial council cashflow. Then for Ulster Council to wheel out the H&S line just added fuel to the fire.

Come out and say what the real reason is, and make the case on purely financial grounds, and imo Ulster Council would have more support on the issue. But expecting Antrim to roll over on a load of BS....really!

[SaffronSports]

If it doesn't go ahead, they should sue the Antrim players.

Drama queens.

Take it out of their wages.

[Spiderlegs]

So why over sell tickets knowing they could not meet this criteria?

Now think about what youre saying here:

"Armagh fans, we're cutting the amount of season tickets your county can get this year because you went and done the dreaded drawing Antrim at Corrigan Park thing... We're gonna go ahead and sell Dublin and Mayo their full allocation, we'll do the same for Cork, Clare and Limerick hurlers... But for you, well maybe better luck next year"

Nope, they are cutting them for the game against Antrim, if they are drawn out first. The rule that has been put up is for HS, not capacity.

Ballycastle holds 4,900 maybe best to move it to the second County ground, would that facility be ok?

Armagh not playing the match the supporters will lose out anyways. 

This thread is going round in circles and the same things are being said many times but again..

As far as the Ulster Council is concerned there is a minimum number of tickets they MUST sell for this game.
They describe it as "players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc".

When they sell these tickets the capacity is exceeded and H&S factors in.

Let's say Armagh fans only bought up 1k season tickets then the issue goes away, it doesn't matter that another 7 or 8 thousand might want to go, the Ulster Council will first of all sell the minimum, then determine if there are any remaining tickets for general sale or through the clubs.

[armaghniac]

Let's say Armagh fans only bought up 1k season tickets then the issue goes away, it doesn't matter that another 7 or 8 thousand might want to go, the Ulster Council will first of all sell the minimum, then determine if there are any remaining tickets for general sale or through the clubs.

However, the Ulster council should care that many more want to go, otherwise they are sending a suicide pass to the clubs by sending tickets for a fraction of the working members of those clubs. Quite simply, the GAA should encourage, not discourage, people who want to come.

[Spiderlegs]

Let's say Armagh fans only bought up 1k season tickets then the issue goes away, it doesn't matter that another 7 or 8 thousand might want to go, the Ulster Council will first of all sell the minimum, then determine if there are any remaining tickets for general sale or through the clubs.

However, the Ulster council should care that many more want to go, otherwise they are sending a suicide pass to the clubs by sending tickets for a fraction of the working members of those clubs. Quite simply, the GAA should encourage, not discourage, people who want to come.

Opinion is very much torn on it as is evident over the last dozen pages here and elsewhere.

I think everyone would be happy to see Antrim get a home tie for themselves, that much is clear.
But should it come at the expense of 7 or 8 thousand supporters who would ordinarily go when an alternative is available?
Should it come at the expense of undermining the GAA season ticket scheme?
Should it come at the expense of Antrim possibly only having a couple of hundred people in the ground for their own home game?

I'm a season ticket holder and if it comes to it I'll watch it on TV, kick up no fuss and won't be getting involved in any legal action. I'd fully expect though that I would be awarded the "loyalty points" so to speak and that would count as one of the 6 games needed to qualify for an AI final ticket (should Armagh somehow manage to get that far again!!).

Money probably is a factor for the Ulster Council. But as far as I can see they are standing on solid ground and Antrim are not. The rulebook is clear and was in place BEFORE the draw was made. The H&S concerns are based on the minimum number of tickets that MUST be sold exceeding the capacity of the ground.
The only thing the Ulster Council need to consider here is will the Antrim players/managers ACTUALLY refuse to play if it is moved elsewhere. And so it's a game of bluff between the two parties. Armagh will just show to up wherever it is.
One other alternative is Corrigan is somehow improved in that time and a bit more capacity developed. Not even sure if that's possible.

[Milltown Row2]

Let's say Armagh fans only bought up 1k season tickets then the issue goes away, it doesn't matter that another 7 or 8 thousand might want to go, the Ulster Council will first of all sell the minimum, then determine if there are any remaining tickets for general sale or through the clubs.

However, the Ulster council should care that many more want to go, otherwise they are sending a suicide pass to the clubs by sending tickets for a fraction of the working members of those clubs. Quite simply, the GAA should encourage, not discourage, people who want to come.

Opinion is very much torn on it as is evident over the last dozen pages here and elsewhere.

I think everyone would be happy to see Antrim get a home tie for themselves, that much is clear.
But should it come at the expense of 7 or 8 thousand supporters who would ordinarily go when an alternative is available?
Should it come at the expense of undermining the GAA season ticket scheme?
Should it come at the expense of Antrim possibly only having a couple of hundred people in the ground for their own home game?

I'm a season ticket holder and if it comes to it I'll watch it on TV, kick up no fuss and won't be getting involved in any legal action. I'd fully expect though that I would be awarded the "loyalty points" so to speak and that would count as one of the 6 games needed to qualify for an AI final ticket (should Armagh somehow manage to get that far again!!).

Money probably is a factor for the Ulster Council. But as far as I can see they are standing on solid ground and Antrim are not. The rulebook is clear and was in place BEFORE the draw was made. The H&S concerns are based on the minimum number of tickets that MUST be sold exceeding the capacity of the ground.
The only thing the Ulster Council need to consider here is will the Antrim players/managers ACTUALLY refuse to play if it is moved elsewhere. And so it's a game of bluff between the two parties. Armagh will just show to up wherever it is.
One other alternative is Corrigan is somehow improved in that time and a bit more capacity developed. Not even sure if that's possible.

I'd doubt very much that temp seating would still get the required numbers or even approval form the city council that will carry out HS assessments, just by the very nature of the ground and space available

All joking aside I don't think Armagh supporters are not being unreasonable either in wanting to see the game live and while we have never had great support (bar the Ulster final lol) it would be a great run out for the lads at home v the All Ireland holders at Corrigan.

Bit messy and hopefully there is a happy ending for everyone

[Armamike]

Have a fan zone on the Boucher Road. All sorted!

[RadioGAAGAA]

The below is a complete lie.

The ground was known before ticket sales. Therefore the error lies not with the ground, but with the organisation that distributed the tickets.
Guess who that is?

However, in a statement to RTÉ Sport, Ulster GAA said Corrigan Park's capacity does not meet the "required health and safety standard" to stage the match and that discussions remain ongoing with Antrim GAA.

"Home venues for senior inter-county championship games are subject to the approval of the relevant CCC, and they must be in compliance with health and safety standards," a spokesperson for Ulster GAA said.

"Corrigan Park has a certified capacity of 4,000. The minimum number of tickets required to accommodate this fixture (including players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc) will exceed the venue capacity. Therefore, Corrigan Park does not meet the required health and safety standard to accommodate this fixture.

It might be interesting to see if counties nominated a county ground prior to the competition draw; if they did and Corrigan was accepted, then the Ulster Council have made (yet) another f88k up.

The wording of the rule (6.12 part J) is this:

Note: Home Venues for all Senior Inter County Championship games shall be subject to
approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set
down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee

If I were in the Antrim CB, I'd probably use this to force a definitive timeline onto Casement.

Either you (Ulster Council) get Casement fit to host matches with minimum 10k capacity by 2027 championship, or you surrender back to us (Antrim Board) all rights to the ground along with the remaining grant monies to develop a stadium.  Sign that onto legal paper and we'll move this years match. Don't and we won't.

[Saffron_sam20]

Let's say Armagh fans only bought up 1k season tickets then the issue goes away, it doesn't matter that another 7 or 8 thousand might want to go, the Ulster Council will first of all sell the minimum, then determine if there are any remaining tickets for general sale or through the clubs.

However, the Ulster council should care that many more want to go, otherwise they are sending a suicide pass to the clubs by sending tickets for a fraction of the working members of those clubs. Quite simply, the GAA should encourage, not discourage, people who want to come.

Opinion is very much torn on it as is evident over the last dozen pages here and elsewhere.

I think everyone would be happy to see Antrim get a home tie for themselves, that much is clear.
But should it come at the expense of 7 or 8 thousand supporters who would ordinarily go when an alternative is available?
Should it come at the expense of undermining the GAA season ticket scheme?
Should it come at the expense of Antrim possibly only having a couple of hundred people in the ground for their own home game?

I'm a season ticket holder and if it comes to it I'll watch it on TV, kick up no fuss and won't be getting involved in any legal action. I'd fully expect though that I would be awarded the "loyalty points" so to speak and that would count as one of the 6 games needed to qualify for an AI final ticket (should Armagh somehow manage to get that far again!!).

Money probably is a factor for the Ulster Council. But as far as I can see they are standing on solid ground and Antrim are not. The rulebook is clear and was in place BEFORE the draw was made. The H&S concerns are based on the minimum number of tickets that MUST be sold exceeding the capacity of the ground.
The only thing the Ulster Council need to consider here is will the Antrim players/managers ACTUALLY refuse to play if it is moved elsewhere. And so it's a game of bluff between the two parties. Armagh will just show to up wherever it is.
One other alternative is Corrigan is somehow improved in that time and a bit more capacity developed. Not even sure if that's possible.

I'd doubt very much that temp seating would still get the required numbers or even approval form the city council that will carry out HS assessments, just by the very nature of the ground and space available

All joking aside I don't think Armagh supporters are not being unreasonable either in wanting to see the game live and while we have never had great support (bar the Ulster final lol) it would be a great run out for the lads at home v the All Ireland holders at Corrigan.

Bit messy and hopefully there is a happy ending for everyone

Simple solution, Ulster GAA pay for load of busses for Antrim supporters to Armagh, wed have a more support there than Corrigan, one thing us Antrim supporters love is a good bus run and carry out for championship lol

[Spiderlegs]

The below is a complete lie.

The ground was known before ticket sales. Therefore the error lies not with the ground, but with the organisation that distributed the tickets.
Guess who that is?

However, in a statement to RTÉ Sport, Ulster GAA said Corrigan Park's capacity does not meet the "required health and safety standard" to stage the match and that discussions remain ongoing with Antrim GAA.

"Home venues for senior inter-county championship games are subject to the approval of the relevant CCC, and they must be in compliance with health and safety standards," a spokesperson for Ulster GAA said.

"Corrigan Park has a certified capacity of 4,000. The minimum number of tickets required to accommodate this fixture (including players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc) will exceed the venue capacity. Therefore, Corrigan Park does not meet the required health and safety standard to accommodate this fixture.

It might be interesting to see if counties nominated a county ground prior to the competition draw; if they did and Corrigan was accepted, then the Ulster Council have made (yet) another f88k up.

The wording of the rule (6.12 part J) is this:

Note: Home Venues for all Senior Inter County Championship games shall be subject to
approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set
down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee

If I were in the Antrim CB, I'd probably use this to force a definitive timeline onto Casement.

Either you (Ulster Council) get Casement fit to host matches with minimum 10k capacity by 2027 championship, or you surrender back to us (Antrim Board) all rights to the ground along with the remaining grant monies to develop a stadium.  Sign that onto legal paper and we'll move this years match. Don't and we won't.

What's the complete lie?

Season ticket sales are capped per county, no-one seems to know exactly what the upper limit is but lets say 3000. Armagh fans, just like all other county fans are entitled to buy up every single one of these season tickets (which they did). Season ticket sales aren't based on whether you have to travel to Corrigan Park or not. Season tickets are bought and sold for the league campaign, for the potential of a league final, for guaranteeing first refusal on high demand championship games and for All-Ireland finals if lucky enough to get there.

Is there some sort of suggestion here that season tickets for Armagh should have been capped lower than everyone else because they were drawn away to Antrim?

Corrigan Park was/is accepted as a county ground, prior to the competition draw, for Championship football Subject to Rule 6.12 Part J of the rulebook...and therefore an open draw for the Ulster Championship can reasonably take place because the vast majority of outcomes from the result of the draw have no need for that rule being referred to.
i.e if Antrim are drawn away from home, then the other 8 counties can host, and if Antrim are drawn at home to teams like Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan the likelihood is that the minimum tickets that MUST be sold (for "players charter, match officials, multi-sponsors, media, season tickets etc") will be lower than the capacity of the ground and therefore no H&S issues.

[RadioGAAGAA]

What's the complete lie?

That the ground cannot hold the match due to Health and Safety.

Is there some sort of suggestion here that season tickets for Armagh should have been capped lower than everyone else because they were drawn away to Antrim?

Yes. For the slow learners - that is exactly what should have happened - or they were sold with the clear proviso that tickets for an away game against Antrim could not be guaranteed.

Corrigan Park was/is accepted as a county ground, prior to the competition draw, for Championship football Subject to Rule 6.12 Part J of the rulebook

When it was accepted as the nominated county ground for the championship draw did it pass through the 6.12 gate at that point?

If it didn't, why were Antrim told at the outset they would never have a home draw and would always be playing at best at a neutral venue?

Ulster Council as usual utterly hapless.

I do get that many are volunteers doing a difficult job. But there are nearly 60 paid employees of the Ulster Council - and it seems its high time they employed someone reasonably competent to give counsel to the decision makers within the Council.