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Its just a matter of time, players downed tools on Saturday and clearly have no faith in him. Got to wonder if the board had real faith in him this summer, Sesko wasn't his choice and we all knew United were desperate for a midfielder and had no player who resembled a top class wing back.

Its early enough in the season too salvage and a change of the system clearly isn't going to be a problem as it will obviously help. Still a lot of good players in that squad although the squad is thin and there's no way its strong enough too play twice a week but thankfully they won't have that problem.

Finishing in the CL places won't require any more then 65 points and possibly even less, its there for anyone who can put a run together. United's talent is certainly a lot better then results suggest.

Did they really down tools? They went 2-0 down got it back to 2-1, miss a penalty which if it goes in and official makes the right call and sends Collins off they probably win the game. They then get hit on counter attack for third goal trying get equaliser.

Is the formation really the problem? There was lots of players who looked bang average under ETH playing in a 4-2-3-1.

Don' t understand why Amorin brought a new keeper and continue with a goalkeeper who played second fiddle to Onana in the main. City get in a new keeper play him from get go and he makes immediate impact.

United finished 3rd on 75 points in Ten Hags first season so the players weren't that bad. City went out and gave a keeper over £400k a week after buying a new keeper in the summer, United not in a position to throw that kind of money around in current climate.

Even against City I felt they kept trying and it just didn't work but there was no fight there against a team who'll be lucky to stay up.

Agree on certain players like Dalot, Maguire & Shaw with injuries catching up with the later but De Ligt, Yoro & Mazroui have looked good since they came in and mix that in with Mainoo, Bruno, Amad, Cunha & Mbeumo there's the makings of a very good side. Clearly we have no ides how good the new keeper is as its clear by now that Bayandir is not a premier league keeper and ultimately that could be the reason under a new manager why United not make a CL spot. Squad is nowhere near good enough in depth but given lack of games they might get away with that.

Outside of the top 3 nobody looks nailed onto for a CL spot.

Its just a matter of time, players downed tools on Saturday and clearly have no faith in him. Got to wonder if the board had real faith in him this summer, Sesko wasn't his choice and we all knew United were desperate for a midfielder and had no player who resembled a top class wing back.

Its early enough in the season too salvage and a change of the system clearly isn't going to be a problem as it will obviously help. Still a lot of good players in that squad although the squad is thin and there's no way its strong enough too play twice a week but thankfully they won't have that problem.

Finishing in the CL places won't require any more then 65 points and possibly even less, its there for anyone who can put a run together. United's talent is certainly a lot better then results suggest.

Did Conaty miss many games? I watched a fair bit of Mulroy this year, he'd be winning one as a reward for Louth and not reaching the level of the likes of Conaty.

He was exceptional in every game I saw him but there's always so called big name players in every sport that always seem to get awards despite not deserving them.

Sean O'Shea likely to win a 4th All Star for performance which was outstanding but thats not enough to win an All Star.

Stating the obvious the say yesterday's result was disappointing. As usual with United the reactions are massively exaggerated. In my view United were not that bad yesterday overall but playing against good teams you get punished for weakness/mistakes and so it was again yesterday.

The goalkeeping soap opera has masked the fact that Luke Shaw has been playing terribly for some time now. He's slow and ponderous on the ball, defensively very poor and looks slow. He basically looks completely disinterested. I struggle to understand ow he has conned manager after manager but there are guys like that who can make all the right noises but in truth are phoning it in. You have to do your job and he was badly at fault for all 3 goals. The goalkeeper is miles off as well (thought he was in the totally wrong position for Haaland's first and very lucky to get away with dreadful control in first half).

United have played some good opponents and lets be honest - are not a top 6 team in this league. Are steps being taken to improve things? This is where I'm getting concerned. I like a manager to be stubborn because at times you need to stick to your guns for things to bed in. Unfortunately I see a few fundamental areas that look easy fixes and it appears Amorim is not going to do the obvious thing.

1) Goalkeeper. The new lad is only in the door but why buy him if you're not going to play him? Bsyindir is only marginally better than Onana and destabilises the back line. Play Lammens.
2) Centre of midfield. Fernandes cannot play this position. He loses his man and doesn't have the positional mind in a defensive sense to protect the defense. I thought when Mainoo came on it was again abundantly clear that he is the best centre midfielder at the club by a distance. I also thought Ugarte had a decent game yesterday in difficult circumstances. These two are the partnership he has to run with.
3) "Number 9". I thought the decision to start Sesko yesterday was a mistake. I'll give him time but I'm very worried already he's not up to it. That aside yesterday was the day to play Bruno as deep lying or false 9. Amad and Mbuemo more than capable of getting in behind as the latter did and Bruno has in the past shown an ability to drift in there. Regarding Sesko - whether he's not good enough or the team don't know how to feed a number 9 he has not looked good. Prioritise this guy in lesser games or else he's going to be another flop before he gets a chance.
4) Shaw. He has to go. His performances are dreadful. I'd prefer Maguire to get more game time in the centre and play Yoro or DeLigt at LCB until Martinez comes back (not sure how far away he is but a fully fit Martinez is badly needed).

Less obviously fixable are the wing backs. Mazraoui good defensively but not dynamic enough. Perhaps with a few games he'll be better....maybe he can do better. Dorgu - great athlete but not as good as you'd like defensively and end product substandard. Dalot is a poor defender. Decent athlete and decent going forward. Amad - wasted as a wing back and due to his size will be a target. Probably has been the best of them though. In the system he uses (which I think is overstated) these are key players. I think all these options are pretty flawed.

Hard to see Amorim lasting unless there's a huge improvement, every game is laced with errors and ridiculous decsioon making from players. 4 league games in and we've seen huge errors from Bayindir, Shaw, De Ligt, Dalot, Maguire & Ugarte leading too goals. Ironically enough the keeper has had very little to do apart from pick the ball out of the net although City were content to protect what we had so who knows what the score would have been if they'd gone after us. There's signs we've improvement in terms of possession but in the only metric that matters we're conceded too many goals and aren't scoring enough.

I don't think its any surprise Dorgu gets so much of the ball around the opponents box and he's shown he has very little attacking quality so far and opponents clearly don't rate him. He's still only 20 and he looks a better player in other aspects of his game then last season but its got to happen soon for him and for Amorim.

Amad has to play wingback, just very little attacking quality in Dalot, Dorgu & Mazroui and Mainoo had to be given a run in the team; Ugarte is a major let down, don't think he can work with a back 3 but maybe partnering Mainoo would suit him but far from convinced. He had some brilliant moments on Sunday but mixed it with the ridiculous. Huge fan of Cunha but didn't understand signing him when we had Fernandes unless the club though he'd leave.

I hope Amorim can turn it round and he still has time but don't see it happening, this team seem incapable of keeping clean sheets.

Thought one of Mogan or Roarty would be there. Ó Beaglaoich has been very good all year and was exceptional yesterday.

Did Sean O'Shea do much outside the Armagh game?

Perhaps he deserves one for his exceptional performance against one Armagh but if he won one and the likes of Conaty misses out then its laughable.

Conaty was outstanding anytime he was on the pitch all summer.
 

Galway, Armagh & Dublin all looked lifeless. Group of death took its toil, will be glad to see the back of the group stage. You'd wonder if McGeeney regrets putting that much effort into the Galway game, as for Galway the manners of the games didn't help and eventually caught up with them.

I was happy enough at half time as thought it looked like a deliberate tactic in the first half to slow the game down and conserve energy but apart from a crazy 4 minutes in the 2nd half Galway never looked comfortable. Meath fully deserving winners.

Imagine we'll hear in the next few weeks if Joyce will stay on, I hope he does.

If there's one thing you have to hand to Galway it's the confidence they bring and respect they have from all n sundry whilst doing absolutely nothing .  Scrapped by a very average (general feeling not mine ) mayo team in Connacht final
Beaten by the beaten docket of the dubs (again the general feeling )

Scrapped a draw against again not a fancied Derry team .
All this on top of bottling an all Ireland final last year (bottling it , is losing a final when odds on to win it )

Yet they still strut their stuff as if they've won 3 in a row , it's admirable if nothing else . Media never stop fawning over them , it's quite incredible the amount of superlatives have been used to describe each and every Galway player .

It's an awful shame the dubs didn't have their shooting boots on the last day and Con missing was massive too cause Armagh would be all out next day if they needed a result . Find it hard to believe Armagh would be foolish enough to go all out to win a dead rubber now the way it's panned out
. Galway win in that one , Dubs / Derry hard to call .

Donegal and Tyrone victories in our group will see our bucks bow out for the year im afraid . Mayo won't cope with the counter attack speed of Donegal , they'll cut us right open down the centre for 3-18 id guess (4 two pointers ) . Murphy will have a tussle with mcbrien, Murphy will complain to man in black and mcbrien will then receive a red card . Its Murphy's rules out there his receding hairline brings an aura of authority like an old school inspector.

Tyrone were lethargic against Mayo , that one week turnaround is an awful hindrance , they'll easily account for Cavan .

Galway are one lucky devil's of a team. Poxed how they avoided defeat at the weekend which would have knocked them out of the championship and now face Armagh who are already into the last 8.  Galway also lucky to win the last two Connacht finals against your lot and All-Ireland series games against Donegal,Dublin last year. Given their luck one can't rule them out in the All-Ireland series, as they say better to born lucky than rich.

As for Mayo,  you comfortably beat Tyrone in Omagh can be no excuses not to get at least a draw against Donegal in your home from home venue in Hyde Park.

Aye really lucky, 3 years in a row their reward for winning Connacht was to be drawn in the toughest group. Lost Finnerty 10 minutes into last years final with Walsh & Comer already a shadow of themselves due too injury and their captain Sean Kelly nowhere near fit enough either, so exceptionally lucky!!

TBH
your comments are generally thoughtful and articulate,
IMO last years all Ireland final was a massive screw up by Galway management, starting three players not fully fit and bringing on another who was in similar shape.

I can see why people might think that but I wouldn't be as harsh, Walsh had scored 2 frees against Donegal as had Finnerty and prior to coming off injured Finnerty had scored a free in the final.

Finnerty getting injured was a bigger issue then playing Walsh & Comer. Thompson has come in this year and made a huge impact and Cooke has returned but still think Galway are a bit short in the forwards. Culhane is another player who can't keep fit, plenty in Galway would have hoped he'd have made the same impact Thompson has had but he's has had so many injuries.

On Down its clearly the draw Galway hoped for but lets see what Galway turns up first, Galway have had long periods in the last 2 matches where they've been exceptionally wasteful. Walsh hit 9 points but when they look back at his performance he'll be disappointed it wasn't 12. 3 of the 5 chances he missed were well within his range.

If there's one thing you have to hand to Galway it's the confidence they bring and respect they have from all n sundry whilst doing absolutely nothing .  Scrapped by a very average (general feeling not mine ) mayo team in Connacht final
Beaten by the beaten docket of the dubs (again the general feeling )

Scrapped a draw against again not a fancied Derry team .
All this on top of bottling an all Ireland final last year (bottling it , is losing a final when odds on to win it )

Yet they still strut their stuff as if they've won 3 in a row , it's admirable if nothing else . Media never stop fawning over them , it's quite incredible the amount of superlatives have been used to describe each and every Galway player .

It's an awful shame the dubs didn't have their shooting boots on the last day and Con missing was massive too cause Armagh would be all out next day if they needed a result . Find it hard to believe Armagh would be foolish enough to go all out to win a dead rubber now the way it's panned out
. Galway win in that one , Dubs / Derry hard to call .

Donegal and Tyrone victories in our group will see our bucks bow out for the year im afraid . Mayo won't cope with the counter attack speed of Donegal , they'll cut us right open down the centre for 3-18 id guess (4 two pointers ) . Murphy will have a tussle with mcbrien, Murphy will complain to man in black and mcbrien will then receive a red card . Its Murphy's rules out there his receding hairline brings an aura of authority like an old school inspector.

Tyrone were lethargic against Mayo , that one week turnaround is an awful hindrance , they'll easily account for Cavan .

Galway are one lucky devil's of a team. Poxed how they avoided defeat at the weekend which would have knocked them out of the championship and now face Armagh who are already into the last 8.  Galway also lucky to win the last two Connacht finals against your lot and All-Ireland series games against Donegal,Dublin last year. Given their luck one can't rule them out in the All-Ireland series, as they say better to born lucky than rich.

As for Mayo,  you comfortably beat Tyrone in Omagh can be no excuses not to get at least a draw against Donegal in your home from home venue in Hyde Park.

Aye really lucky, 3 years in a row their reward for winning Connacht was to be drawn in the toughest group. Lost Finnerty 10 minutes into last years final with Walsh & Comer already a shadow of themselves due too injury and their captain Sean Kelly nowhere near fit enough either, so exceptionally lucky!!

Galway will beat Armagh handy enough, Armagh will be playing a lot of lads that need game time and haven't got much football. They will be trying to win the game but a lot of changes plus not needing a result usually ends one way. The Tribesmen to win by 4-5pts in the end after an Armagh rally late on to bring the score line down a bit and put some respectability on the scoreboard.

How likely are Armagh to rest first choice players if they'll be idle for 4 weeks in total before the 1/4 finals?

Padraig Joyce's big dilemma is what team to pick. Has to change it significantly from 5 - 9 at least. Unlikely he'll change goalie at this stage but it maybe in his mind.

I like Daly at 6 but don't think he's fit enough too start, like the idea of him and Comer coming on together. Think he found Comer with 2 long balls against Derry.

McHugh & Silke not hit last years levels of form, would have assumed we'd see more of O'Flaherty since he had a good league but we've not. Hernon who's always impressed was poor against the Dubs and Molloy certainly hasn't done well in his few cameo's. Just can't see any changes in 5-9, D'Arcy will certainly start instead of O'Neill who apart from a decent score had a really poor start to the game and was deservedly hooked. Would like to have seen Sweeney get more time at wing back in recent years but Joyce just doesn't see him there although thats what I think is his best position.

Just can't see him dropping Conroy or McDaid either, what to do with Walsh is another issue. He just doesn't look fit, a case could be made for him coming off the bench with 20/25 mins too go with Sean Kelly playing further forward.

That Galway performance nowhere near as bad as many have made out, Derry excellent and practically scored everytime they went forward; Only 2 wides and 1 shot dropped short throughout the match.

Galway had 9 wides and 7 shots dropped short and thats not taking into account Molloys pathetic attempt that ended up going for a 45. Galway won 18 kickouts in the 2nd half whilst Derry won 7, they destroyed Derrys kickout winning 11 out of 16; D'Arcy was outstanding winning so many again, makes his non performance against Dublin harder to understand.

Galway's issue was their decision making & kicking was so poor in that 2nd half with 12 missed attempts. Conroy, Walsh, Tierney & Cooke responsible for 7 of those misses, I didn't think any of them were crazy attempts either although Tierney opting for a 2 pointer attempt when Galway had the chance to hit a 21 metre free to close the gap to a point with around 7 minutes remaining was daft after missing so many.

It was a far better performance then in every aspect apart from the shooting then against the Dubs. I thought Thompson again was outstanding, still only 20 but he's had a huge impact.

If 3 teams end up at the top of a group on 4 points will they use scoring difference from all games in the group or just the games between the 3 teams at the top?

Galway probably didn't too bad when in possession but just didn't have enough of it in the first half.

O'Callaghan, Kilkenny, O'Cofaigh Byrne and O'Dell were superb whereas Conroy & D'Arcy were very poor and had no impact on the game. Some of the matchup didn't work, McGrath struggled on O'Callaghan as did Hernon. I suspect they would have both done better if they'd swapped.

I know its not easy but Tierney had a relatively simple pass to Kelly when he scored the equalising point.

Culhane found very wanting for Dublins last 2 scores, not a great cameo from him.

Thompson excellent again, for a 20 year old he looks more then as ease at this level; His goal was brilliant.

Huge game in 2 weeks against Derry, hope to see a reaction. If Armagh & Galway beat Derry and the Dubs beat Armagh it would leave the last round of fixtures as a dead rubber.

Just watched the game back there. One thing I didn't notice live was that Matthew Thompson had a hand in a lot of Galway scores. For a young lad he seems to be a very intelligent player with his movement and link up play. And is very comfortable on the ball.

I watched it back too, he was excellent. Along with Conroy, McDaid And McGrath who I thought were all Galways best players. McGrath wasn't on O'Donoghue when he licked his points either, Mayo's tactic of bringing out O'Donoghue in that first half backfired as it showed that McGrath has more to his game then defending.

Thompson so calm on the ball, really looks the part in all departments.

Lots of talk about the ref, have a look at that free count; A lot of decisions went again Galway too.

Mixed impact from the bench, Molloy made some crazy decisions on the ball and Sweeney had no impact. Great to see Cooke back but he didn't much of an impact whereas Hernon was excellent when he came on, surprised Flaherty didn't come on; His ball carrying would have been a huge help during the 2nd half.

[do you not think the CB's look all at sea last night because of who was playing in front of them?]

Just baffled by what I'm watching as I am by the pundits who claim Ten Hag doesn't have a style of play, there's a clear style of play its just not working and amazed he continues with it.

Even Martinez who's been a revelation since he joined was dreadful last night, whole back 4 like against Spurs were made too look crap and thats down to the system. We are way too easy to play against, there's space everywhere and doesn't help when you've the likes of Rashford who makes half arsed attempts at closing down. I've heard countless pundit comment Rashford was brilliant last night and completely ignore his defending in both goals.

Play the same way against Villa Sunday and he's likely to be sacked on Monday, I was delighted he got the chance this season but the excesses have run out now as everyone bar Shaw is available. Thats a good squad, nowhere near as bad as made out by some and looks like he's incapable of getting the best out of them.

Go to Villa and replicate what he did in the cup final and work on tightening up his system over the international break, wishful thinking on my behalf though!

MM do you not think the CB's look all at sea last night because of who was playing in front of them?

Casimero is not capable of playing a holding midfield role on his own any more. Combine that with Dalot seemingly having a free role, meant that there was gaps every where in front of them and to the sides of them.
I would say they were glad to get off in the end.

He has to rotate the squad its just that when he does the depth isnt there. I do think with a system change there is more solidity within the squad but he seems reluctant to change.

To a degree yes and also the positioning of the fullbacks, the while setup has gaps everywhere and making good players look incompetent. Martinez now getting a slating from Keown, the lad has been brilliant since his first game and that level hasn't dropped. De Ligt had a good season at Bayern and fans were gutted to see him leave, seen enough of our new right back in the first few games to knows he's a good player and Dalot was brilliant from xmas onwards at right back. Players are been hung out too dry by this crazy system, looks like the players have lost faith in him too.

Not having this is a poor group of players, its the best squad since Fergie left. I think the depth is better then people are making out, we'll know in time. He either changes this system (won't happen) or he won't last the month.

Just baffled by what I'm watching as I am by the pundits who claim Ten Hag doesn't have a style of play, there's a clear style of play its just not working and amazed he continues with it.

Even Martinez who's been a revelation since he joined was dreadful last night, whole back 4 like against Spurs were made too look crap and thats down to the system. We are way too easy to play against, there's space everywhere and doesn't help when you've the likes of Rashford who makes half arsed attempts at closing down. I've heard countless pundit comment Rashford was brilliant last night and completely ignore his defending in both goals.

Play the same way against Villa Sunday and he's likely to be sacked on Monday, I was delighted he got the chance this season but the excesses have run out now as everyone bar Shaw is available. Thats a good squad, nowhere near as bad as made out by some and looks like he's incapable of getting the best out of them.

Go to Villa and replicate what he did in the cup final and work on tightening up his system over the international break, wishful thinking on my behalf though!