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This year's Tyrone team conceded 5-24 against Cavan this summer. Cillian O Connor,Aidan O Shea,Andy Moran and Lee Keegan all got either loads of time or space on the ball before converting their points from play. That is not something you see from a much more defensive Tyrone team.

Mayo would have got more joy and scores against that Tyrone defence last Sunday if they didn't go into their defensive shell a tactic if you look at match stats on don't foul could easily have backfired.

I wouldn't agree, I think Mayo adopted the game they needed to just like Donegal did to frustrate Tyrone in the Ulster final.

Donegal were actually quite adventurous by their standards in the two games with Monaghan.

I don't think it was any tactical masterclass from Mayo because Tyrone still had the opportunities to win that game. However it was a gameplan that Mayo adopted to thwart Tyrone and it worked, they made it hard to penetrate them and a lot of players made some really poor decisions when they were turned back and rushed shots from long distance. Mayo were much smarter and much more patient in working the openings and that's why they won.

A potential forward line for next year doesn't look too bad, assuming Sean isn't around or could be used as an impact sub...
10. Richie Donnelly
11 Niall Sludden
12. Conor Meyler
13. Lee Brennan
14. Cathal McShane
15. Mark Bradley (I think he could do more damage inside and is more accurate than he has shown so far)

I'd have McCurry inside over Bradley, I think he is much more accurate and capable of taking scores, I think in the modern game Bradley works better out the pitch - he didn't get too many opportunities this year.

In that situation who would you envisage on the right footed frees?

I also think McShane's decision making when bottled up is very poor, how many times have we seen him taking shots on from ridiculous angles and sending them miles wide when he should be patient and looking to probe for the opportunity.

I think the problem with McCurry and O'Neill is that they are finishers and they are being required to win their own ball too much which doesn't allow them to get the time and space to have shots off. If we had a guy in their who we could knock it in direct every so often and be able to get him to feed those two I think we would get a lot more out of them.

What options have we here? McShane, Donnelly, Cavanagh are all much better further out the field and are not natural full forwards.

We have guys like Niall McKenna, Danny McNulty and Patrick Quinn but there would be question marks over them at this level. Personally I'd like to see us give one of these guys a good run in the league and see if they can make an impression. We need that other dimension to our game right now.

One day someone will tell all and you lot will be shown for what you have engaged in. A f**king disgrace to decency . Saint mickey just your stereotypical devout catholic , full of shite and hypocrisy.

Someone will tell all?

There didn't seem to be any animosity between the two sets of players at the end, it was the usual harmless trash talk that happend.

Maybe  you can get a few more supporters on the pitch this year to threaten match officials?

Are tyrone sick in the head? Do they take sledging to a different level?

Mayo certainly take whinging and trying to put undue pressure on the referee to a new level.

Also took scoring to a level beyond Tyrone the last day 

Well done.

Great chance to end the hoodoo this year for ye.

Are tyrone sick in the head? Do they take sledging to a different level?

Mayo certainly take whinging and trying to put undue pressure on the referee to a new level.

[Philly McMahon]

Pulling, dragging, checking runs, wrestling Cavanagh to the ground. None of those are in the rules and Keegan has a long history of this.

The problem here is it is imaginary stuff made up to suit an agenda.
Even the incident that the linesman saw in the first half is in your mind Keegans fault. All that happened was the 2 of them were shoving one another after the ball had gone from their vicinity. However, one of Cavanaghs shoves was strong enough to land Keegan on his arse (fair enough) but Keegan caught Cavanaghs leg rather than falling and then wouldn't let it go. Again, all handbags-at-dawn but you have concluded that Keegan was the devious, sinister one.
Having watched Keegan closely for years, the only time he reverted to the devious arts was v Kerry draw in '14 when he stupidly kicked and got sent off (having been provoked)... fair enough.
Even the Connolly incident last year where he put his hand back in Connollys direction twice is hardly in the devious arts territory.


Anyway, the more we talk about Keegan and Cavanagh the more we are following Dublins narrative of 'poor Dermo, more sinned against then sinner.'
What do i mean ?? Dublin want the Keegan/Cavanagh debate to sew the seed in the publics mind and the referees  body that Keegan is a master of the devious arts and the good players like Connolly need protection.
Alan Brogan is at it on Twitter, Jim Gavin is at it, back page of the Herald has it today about Dublin fearing the unfair attention Dermo' will get v Kerry..... and of course the whinging from Mickey H and Cavanagh have focused heavily, albeit indirectly, on Keegan
It is sickening BS. I would have sympathy for Connolly if he didn't consistently react like a thug when the opposing player doesn't geneflect in front of him.
The irony of it is that the true master of the black arts, the most devious & cunning of them all - Philly McMahon - isn't even getting mentioned. In my 'spaced-out' state after the Mayo/Tyrone game, i focused a lot on Murphy/Philly in the Donegal/Dublin game. INCREDIBLE is the only word to describe the patience the Murhpy showed not to wallop McMahon. He must have come close to single-handidly done more verbal sledging to Murphy than the entire Tyrone team done in the season (sorry, thats insulting to Tyrone). To cap it all off, he got away scott free when he threw a punch during the incident where Connolly got his black/red card. A really great footballer but it is him, and most definitely NOT Keegan, that the focus needs to be on.

Anyway, enough of this for me, we have Tipperary to beat.


PS .... Whitey .... on your question of who saw the incident at the start of the second half.... 'yes' as described. I don't think Canavaghs was trying to get any reaction out of Keegan to be honest. It was, i would say, more a case of Cavanagh being syc'd up after half time speech and trying to tell Keegan who was boss

You're the one with the fabricated version of events.

Much like how Aidan O'Shea claims he didn't dive against Fermanagh.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

I agree with you here. Just have a look back at your posts after the Keegan - Connolly incident last year and how your interpretation of the incident has changed when it comes to blackening the name of Keegan today.

I'm saying that if a Tyrone player did what Keegan did and had the track record of doing what Keegan did then the focus would have firmly been on a different light of Keegan's performance and not the good side of it.

You see that's what you get! You happily came on here last year and applauded the way the under 21's went about their work! You took great offence at being reprimanded for it. When the shoe is on the other foot. You go crying to mammy!

The reality for the last decade plus or so, is that Tyrone have been the market leaders in Sledging, bad gamesmanship, and cheating. All the rest are no angels. But have held back more than Tyrone. Tyrone have the name now and nothing can be done other than to change focus and in time they may be seen a 'nicer' crowd. But would this be worth it?  Many of their victories have come from this and they could return to mediocrity.

As for the Game. Told you so! Tyrone this and Tyrone that. Uncle Peter telling Ireland they were the second best in Ireland! Feck sake they could just beat a declined Donegal team and were beaten by a running on empty Mayo outfit. The rubbish on here about under 21 titles, second Division titles and McKenna Cup. No to mention a very poor Ulster Championship. Where did all this hype come from?

As for Mayo. They as I expected had one more kick. They always do at this stage. They in turn struggled to beat a poor Westmeath and Average Tyrone. They will make the final. But it won't be as easy as everybody thinks! The final will be the usual last chance saloon story that Mayo have retold over the last 20+ years now. 13/14 was their chance. It's gone thanks to an amazing Dublin team and Cormac O'Reilly who handed us the game in Limerick. Sad really, as they are the best bunch of players that I've ever seen not to do it - way better than the Kildare 98-2000 vintage.

My problem is not what is done, it is that if the foot was on the other foot and Aidan O'Shea was given a second yellow card then it would all be about the dark arts employed from Tyrone to get him sent off. There has been little said about Keegan, a guy who has a track record in using these tactics. Every team has these players but the coverage over these tactics is not dished out on an even basis and it exposes the naked agenda of the free state media and how disengenuous their outrage about these tactics are.

Ciaran Whelan acting like a defender of the virtues of the game after Tyrone's clash in Monaghan last year before turning into an apologist for dark arts a few weeks later when Dublin clashed with Mayo is another prime example.

You can delude yourself all you want but blatant double standards exist. You can't expect one team to abide by the rules while turning a blind eye to the rest.

You Tyrone men are not wise. Sort out the systematic sledging, diving etc etc that has been going on for well over a decade and you'll be grand. Couldn't be anymore simple

And what about Kerry, Dublin, Mayo?

Why don't they have requirements to sort out the darker side of their game?

McNamee was excellent last year but he's been very poor this year.

Don't get some of the flak going McCarron's way, thought he had a good game and was one of the players who really tried to push us over the line near the end.

The weaknesses now are obvious, we lack a target man in the full forward line, Cavanagh is more comfortable out the pitch and does his best work there. I'd really like to Niall McKenna given an extended run there or Danny McNulty get a go.

The free taking issue is a serious on, teams know where they can foul us and get away lightly. Sadly I don't really see much of a solution here.

I can't think of many players who will add to the team now that aren't there. I'd imagine Joe McMahon is done now, would hope Justy and Sean Cavanagh give it another year.

Mark Kavanagh is a very classy player, think he will get a chance next year. How is Conan Grugan going for Omagh these days, would he warrant a recall?

I like Kavanagh. I think he's a class act. However is he not a bit more of what we have.

I think we've a lot of players that are same ish.

We do but he I think he is worth a try and might prove himself to have a bit more about him than some of them.

Sorry. Worded badly by me.

What I meant was, I'm sure he could take a place in the 15 but us he the scoring foward we crave. That man that can hit 1-3 or so every game. I think Lee Brennan can do this, Kavanagh can help but do we need another.

We need 2 men who reliably can hit 0-4/0-5 EVERY game, same two players hit free kicks and be 95% hit rate - other teams have it. We don't !!!

When was the last time we had 2 men hitting free kicks that we could totally rely on - from inside 50 yards !!! Mayo have O Connor, Kerry have Sheehan and Keaney/Gooch/oDonoghue, Dubs have Rock/Cluxton - we have zilch .....

The free taking is a major issue, agreed.

The top forward one I don't know if it is that much an issue for us. I think what we could do is with a bit of variety in the full forward line, don't think Cavanagh is at home on the edge of the square and we certainly lack a big physical presence in there so we can mix it up and go long and direct from time to time with a natural ball winner.

I'd like to see us try some options in here during the league and I think it would benefit the likes of McAliskey, McCurry, O'Neill, Brennan etc.

Whether we have a player good enough in the county to carry out this role is a bigger question but I'd like us to look at our options here.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

I agree with you here. Just have a look back at your posts after the Keegan - Connolly incident last year and how your interpretation of the incident has changed when it comes to blackening the name of Keegan today.

I'm saying that if a Tyrone player did what Keegan did and had the track record of doing what Keegan did then the focus would have firmly been on a different light of Keegan's performance and not the good side of it.

So enlighten us. What did Keegan do that has you Mickey and Sean so much up in arms

I'm not up in arms about what Keegan did.

I'm up in arms about the fact when a Tyrone player bends to rules to take a player out of a game it is brought about as an endemic problem that is Tyrone's alone in the game, when a player like Keegan does the same and has a track record in doing this to a number of players, it does not get the same coverage and spotlight as it would if it was a Tyrone or Donegal player.

Tyrone are held to higher moral standards than other counties when it comes to media coverage and that is where the anger stems from. There were two sets of players at it on Saturday.

Ok so. You saying he bent the rules to get Kavanagh out if the game. Go on. Explain how

Pulling, dragging, checking runs, wrestling Cavanagh to the ground. None of those are in the rules and Keegan has a long history of this.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

I agree with you here. Just have a look back at your posts after the Keegan - Connolly incident last year and how your interpretation of the incident has changed when it comes to blackening the name of Keegan today.

I'm saying that if a Tyrone player did what Keegan did and had the track record of doing what Keegan did then the focus would have firmly been on a different light of Keegan's performance and not the good side of it.

You see that's what you get! You happily came on here last year and applauded the way the under 21's went about their work! You took great offence at being reprimanded for it. When the shoe is on the other foot. You go crying to mammy!

The reality for the last decade plus or so, is that Tyrone have been the market leaders in Sledging, bad gamesmanship, and cheating. All the rest are no angels. But have held back more than Tyrone. Tyrone have the name now and nothing can be done other than to change focus and in time they may be seen a 'nicer' crowd. But would this be worth it?  Many of their victories have come from this and they could return to mediocrity.

As for the Game. Told you so! Tyrone this and Tyrone that. Uncle Peter telling Ireland they were the second best in Ireland! Feck sake they could just beat a declined Donegal team and were beaten by a running on empty Mayo outfit. The rubbish on here about under 21 titles, second Division titles and McKenna Cup. No to mention a very poor Ulster Championship. Where did all this hype come from?

As for Mayo. They as I expected had one more kick. They always do at this stage. They in turn struggled to beat a poor Westmeath and Average Tyrone. They will make the final. But it won't be as easy as everybody thinks! The final will be the usual last chance saloon story that Mayo have retold over the last 20+ years now. 13/14 was their chance. It's gone thanks to an amazing Dublin team and Cormac O'Reilly who handed us the game in Limerick. Sad really, as they are the best bunch of players that I've ever seen not to do it - way better than the Kildare 98-2000 vintage.

My problem is not what is done, it is that if the foot was on the other foot and Aidan O'Shea was given a second yellow card then it would all be about the dark arts employed from Tyrone to get him sent off. There has been little said about Keegan, a guy who has a track record in using these tactics. Every team has these players but the coverage over these tactics is not dished out on an even basis and it exposes the naked agenda of the free state media and how disengenuous their outrage about these tactics are.

Ciaran Whelan acting like a defender of the virtues of the game after Tyrone's clash in Monaghan last year before turning into an apologist for dark arts a few weeks later when Dublin clashed with Mayo is another prime example.

You can delude yourself all you want but blatant double standards exist. You can't expect one team to abide by the rules while turning a blind eye to the rest.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

I agree with you here. Just have a look back at your posts after the Keegan - Connolly incident last year and how your interpretation of the incident has changed when it comes to blackening the name of Keegan today.

I'm saying that if a Tyrone player did what Keegan did and had the track record of doing what Keegan did then the focus would have firmly been on a different light of Keegan's performance and not the good side of it.

So enlighten us. What did Keegan do that has you Mickey and Sean so much up in arms

I'm not up in arms about what Keegan did.

I'm up in arms about the fact when a Tyrone player bends to rules to take a player out of a game it is brought about as an endemic problem that is Tyrone's alone in the game, when a player like Keegan does the same and has a track record in doing this to a number of players, it does not get the same coverage and spotlight as it would if it was a Tyrone or Donegal player.

Tyrone are held to higher moral standards than other counties when it comes to media coverage and that is where the anger stems from. There were two sets of players at it on Saturday.

McNamee was excellent last year but he's been very poor this year.

Don't get some of the flak going McCarron's way, thought he had a good game and was one of the players who really tried to push us over the line near the end.

The weaknesses now are obvious, we lack a target man in the full forward line, Cavanagh is more comfortable out the pitch and does his best work there. I'd really like to Niall McKenna given an extended run there or Danny McNulty get a go.

The free taking issue is a serious on, teams know where they can foul us and get away lightly. Sadly I don't really see much of a solution here.

I can't think of many players who will add to the team now that aren't there. I'd imagine Joe McMahon is done now, would hope Justy and Sean Cavanagh give it another year.

Mark Kavanagh is a very classy player, think he will get a chance next year. How is Conan Grugan going for Omagh these days, would he warrant a recall?

I like Kavanagh. I think he's a class act. However is he not a bit more of what we have.

I think we've a lot of players that are same ish.

We do but he I think he is worth a try and might prove himself to have a bit more about him than some of them.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

I agree with you here. Just have a look back at your posts after the Keegan - Connolly incident last year and how your interpretation of the incident has changed when it comes to blackening the name of Keegan today.

I'm saying that if a Tyrone player did what Keegan did and had the track record of doing what Keegan did then the focus would have firmly been on a different light of Keegan's performance and not the good side of it.

Lad sour grapes. All beaten teams engage in it including ourselves when Kerry beat us in Limerick. A bit embarrassing really! Cop on lads. All teams sledge. All teams provoke. Just stop complaining about it when it happens against you. Expected more of Tyrone manager and Sean C. Tyrone fans I met after the game agreed that Mayo were the best team and wished us well. Mickey H and Sean C are just trying to promote a siege mentality - tactics really.

My only issue is with how the incident is relayed differently depending on the parties involved.

[If anyone should feel hard done by here its Keegan. He gets on with the job in hand playing to the limit without mouthing or slobbering but has now finding himself a target of opposing teams as a result of whinging managers and lazy journalists.]

I always had great time for Sean Kavanagh as a footballer despite all his sneaky antics over the years. He has the all stars and All Ireland's to back it up but the facts of the matter are Lee Keegan absolutely cleaned him out the last day.

Whether Keegan could have done this during Kavanaghs hay day I seriously doubt but unfortunately for Sean his best days are well behind him.

The whinging from him in the Irish Independent article is a bit embarrassing. In fairness to Mickey when he made his comments it was straight after the game and he probably didn't have time to compose himself but Kavanagh has had a couple of days to settle and he come's out with this shite.

I get the impression that after watching Mayo v Westmeath, Sean reckoned he was going to have a field day against Mayo as he dragged Kevin Keane around the field picking up handing frees as he hit the deck with the slightest touch but unfortunately for him the wrong Westport man picked him up. That's when plan B came into operation. Advice at half time seems to have been take a yellow with Keegan and he'll have to watch hi,self. Not a bad plan lads and has worked wonders for Sean in the past but unfortunately he was dealing with a different animal on Saturday and the plan totally backfired when Kavanagh couldn't resist the temptation of taking O'Shea out of it.

If anyone should feel hard done by here its Keegan. He gets on with the job in hand playing to the limit without mouthing or slobbering but has now finding himself a target of opposing teams as a result of whinging managers and lazy journalists.

What was Keegan meant to do on Saturday. Stand back and admire this once great player in the twilight of his career or mark him like every other defender is expected to do.

Give me strength 

Keegan had a fantastic game on saturday, and fair play to him for it.
Many before him have tried and failed to curtail Cavanagh.
But lets not pretend that he didnt play the game right on the edge and maybe over it (as he tends to do)
That I have no problem with, It just galls me when tyrone players are then called out for the exact same thing.( see justy mcmahons performance v Michael Murphy last year)

Well then it seems you fully agree with me so.
Only difference is McMahon was called out by the lazy journalist and a bunch of an anonymous internet warriors whereas as Keegan has been called out by the manager of the opposing team and the player he marked out of it.
Just out of interest, what is this dastardly deed Keegan is meant to have done to Kavanagh that has himself and Mickey up in arms

Whereas last year one of your managers was pre-empting Aidan O'Shea being targetted in the press before a match even began.