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Messages - Il Bomber Destro

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1
General discussion / Re: Mary Boyle Case
« on: Today at 11:30:52 AM »
This is a deeply disturbing tragedy. Another disappeared person in Ireland. Seems to have many of the problems associated with old Ireland. Has there been much progress from the Donegal Gardai. Justice needs done here. Has there been any digging since the Sunday world identified an area in 2013?

The Irish State don't wish to investigate it as one of the main political parties is heavily compromised. There was also that wedding down in the midlands where the priest was killed that was hushed up.


At the Dutch Gold again?

Sweep, sweep.

2
Sean Og O hAilpin didn't even arrive in Ireland until he was ready for secondary school and went on to success with Cork. Says it all about hurling too.

It does, an amateur sport taken seriously by about 8  counties in a very small country.

3
Would Rob Heffernan's World Championship win in 2013 not be as good an achievement as O'Sullivan's?

Maybe walking isn't a real sport. Loads of people just watch the walking for the party afterwards and most of them have never walked in their life. ;)

Walking is a sport but itíd bore a monk to tears.

Anyone trying to discredit sports as sports needs to get their ego in check.

Some sports are better than others, some "sports" aren't even really sports, they merely require a lot of dedication and hard work and pretty much zero in the way of natural skill or ability
My goodness, is that a climb down? Some sports aren't really sports?

Is it a climbdown? No

Is it a recognition that some people deem events that should not be considered as sports, as sports? Yes.

The likes of weightlifting, rugby, etc require things like size, a lot of gym work and a considerable amount of steroids.

Events like walking just involve taking a form of exercise very seriously.

They are absent of skill.

Quite a high number of soccer players are totally devoid of skill including most Irish players. They are just physically strong and hard working. They canít trap a ball, pass the ball or use their weaker foot.

I doubt they are devoid of skill. To make it as a professional in football is very tough to do. It's easier to make it to the highest level of international rugby than it is to make it in non-league football.

Who was the Irish Rugby international who took up Rugby when he was around 18? Says it all really.

What does it say?

That you don't need any skill to make it in rugby. Just brute strength and size.

4
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 10, 2017, 02:41:18 PM »
Would Rob Heffernan's World Championship win in 2013 not be as good an achievement as O'Sullivan's?

Maybe walking isn't a real sport. Loads of people just watch the walking for the party afterwards and most of them have never walked in their life. ;)

Walking is a sport but itíd bore a monk to tears.

Anyone trying to discredit sports as sports needs to get their ego in check.

Some sports are better than others, some "sports" aren't even really sports, they merely require a lot of dedication and hard work and pretty much zero in the way of natural skill or ability
My goodness, is that a climb down? Some sports aren't really sports?

Is it a climbdown? No

Is it a recognition that some people deem events that should not be considered as sports, as sports? Yes.

The likes of weightlifting, rugby, etc require things like size, a lot of gym work and a considerable amount of steroids.

Events like walking just involve taking a form of exercise very seriously.

They are absent of skill.

Quite a high number of soccer players are totally devoid of skill including most Irish players. They are just physically strong and hard working. They canít trap a ball, pass the ball or use their weaker foot.

I doubt they are devoid of skill. To make it as a professional in football is very tough to do. It's easier to make it to the highest level of international rugby than it is to make it in non-league football.

Who was the Irish Rugby international who took up Rugby when he was around 18? Says it all really.

5
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 10, 2017, 01:45:27 PM »
Would Rob Heffernan's World Championship win in 2013 not be as good an achievement as O'Sullivan's?

Maybe walking isn't a real sport. Loads of people just watch the walking for the party afterwards and most of them have never walked in their life. ;)

Walking is a sport but itíd bore a monk to tears.

Anyone trying to discredit sports as sports needs to get their ego in check.

Some sports are better than others, some "sports" aren't even really sports, they merely require a lot of dedication and hard work and pretty much zero in the way of natural skill or ability
My goodness, is that a climb down? Some sports aren't really sports?

Is it a climbdown? No

Is it a recognition that some people deem events that should not be considered as sports, as sports? Yes.

The likes of weightlifting, rugby, etc require things like size, a lot of gym work and a considerable amount of steroids.

Events like walking just involve taking a form of exercise very seriously.

They are absent of skill.

6
General discussion / Re: Mary Boyle Case
« on: December 10, 2017, 01:41:24 PM »
This is a deeply disturbing tragedy. Another disappeared person in Ireland. Seems to have many of the problems associated with old Ireland. Has there been much progress from the Donegal Gardai. Justice needs done here. Has there been any digging since the Sunday world identified an area in 2013?

The Irish State don't wish to investigate it as one of the main political parties is heavily compromised. There was also that wedding down in the midlands where the priest was killed that was hushed up.

7
General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: December 09, 2017, 10:55:57 PM »
Try and argue the point anyway to see how you get on.

When you set out a position as I have done, how can you begin to have any form of logical argument with person who posts this type of slur and nonsense:

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro
You sound like a chap who was in the UDR or had relatives in the UDR.

and

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro
Your view doesn't seem objective at all. It seems very subjective and contrary to factual events and incidents. In short, you're talking bollocks.

As a wise poster on this Board used to have as his signature, a variation on a quotation from Mark Twain who took it from the Bible:

"Do not argue with a fool, he will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience"

I think I will follow his advice when dealing with Il Bomber Destro.

It's bemusing how you expect people to have logical debates with you when you put forward illogical, baseless nonsense.

8
General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: December 09, 2017, 10:00:20 PM »
Life experiences in N.Ireland across the Catholic community varied in the period up to 1967 just as you would find in most societies.  In terms of discrimination against the Catholic community it is important to realise that it was institutional, i.e. the democratic deficit in N.Ireland was produced by gerrymandering over a long period of time to ensure that the absolute minimum number of Catholic representatives could be returned to Stormont and the district councils.  Within government institutions those at the higher levels were from the Protestant community and ensured that new employees came from their own community, so most civil service and similar jobs were given to Protestants regardless of their merit compared to Catholic applicants.  In businesses, there was segregation of the communities, Protestant firms employed Protestants and Catholic firms employed Catholics.  There were some instances of crossover but Catholics could never attain jobs in Protestant firms at anything other than in menial jobs that Protestants wouldn't do, not dissimilar to today's situation where migrants take the jobs that the locals don't want to do.

The one good thing that came from the Unionist parliament was the 1947 Education Act which provided free and universal education for everyone at secondary level.  This meant that the Catholic population was able to access secondary level education and have the opportunity to reach university education (at that stage only 5% of the population attended third level education).  However, this provision did not mean that everyone could afford to have their children at secondary school.  If Catholic parents had low paid work which was the norm then they needed their children to become earners as soon as possible and to leave school and get a job.  Therefore, the Catholic population remained largely poorly education at secondary level for many years after 1947.  However, some families became determined to provide their children with an education and made major sacrifices to keep their children at school.  This provided an increasing educated Catholic cohort, some managing to get to university education.  Their education did not improve their opportunities of work in government institutions.

The democratic deficit at district council level applied to both Catholic and Protestants because as well as discriminating against catholics the unionist establishment wanted to keep their own people in subjection with governments which were conservative/right wing in political position.  Councils provided votes only to rates payers, so if you didn't own property you couldn't vote in council elections.  However, business owners got multiple votes because they paid high levels of rates.  This led to councils that were business owner supporters and ignoring working classes particularly the Catholics but councils ran public housing and education so Catholics and poor Protestants were discriminated against by councils in housing matters but with Catholics at the bottom of the pile.

Then from 1968 on the Catholic population mobilised in protest, working class Protestants were largely paid off by having access to jobs usually low paid and kept in fear by being told the Catholics were uprising for a united Ireland.  The state reacted badly to being confronted.

However, the McCrory Report in 1970 signalled the end of the institutionalised discrimination by providing all with votes in local government and dismantling the apparatus of the state away from discriminating unionist dominated councils. In 1971 the N.Ireland Housing Executive was formed, taking public housing away from discriminating councils. The Local Government (Boundaries) Act (Northern Ireland) 1971 and the Local Government Act (Northern Ireland) 1972 replaced the previous system established by the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898. This replaced the 6 county councils and two borough councils with 26 local councils and ended much of the gerrymandering.

So, from 1972, all citizens of N.Ireland had equal rights in housing, education and local government. By 1976, the Fair Employment Act prohibited discrimination in the workplace on the grounds of religion and established a Fair Employment Agency.

So, from the early 70s discrimination had been removed from institutions and democratic bodies but the same people were still in most civil service and local government jobs and catholics had to resort to legal routes to work their way to top in these areas.

Therefore, all talk of discrimination by the state after the early 70s is largely inaccurate, it still existed with some individuals unless challenged using the agencies that had been created by the UK government.  The problem from early 70s lies with the greater segregation and polarisation of the population caused by the on-going violence of the IRA and UVF/UDA.  From early 70s anyone can get a job or a house or an education anywhere but they will not feel comfortable in the segregated society that has formed.  Polarisation of the communities has become much sharper over the last 40 years and whole populations have moved to make new small towns and some people have been moved in the ethnic cleansing (N.Ireland style) that occurred in the 30 year conflict.

Are you having a laugh??

If you read what I have written you will see that the institutions to remove discrimination as provided from the McCrory Report removed the main elements of state which were in place to allow discrimination.  As I have stated the issue of discrimination remaining was down to the people in state organisation and businesses who continued to discriminate and break the law in doing so. 

Up until the NIHE, ELBs, Fair Employment act and the local government act, all from earlier 70s, it was not illegal for state bodies and business to discriminate in the fields of housing, education and employment. 

The safeguards that ensure discrimination on a religious basis as had happened from the beginning of N.Ireland are no longer acceptable or legal in 2017 were in place from early 70s.  That is a fact.  Did discrimination still occur, yes, but it could be contested, beaten and compensated for thanks to the new institutions and parliamentary acts put in place from early 70s.

Does discrimination still occur in 2017, yes it does but by both sides of the community and those affected have the legal right of challenge and recompense thanks to the laws enacted in 1970's and amended on occasions since then to make them broader and more effective.

There is nothing introduced since the early 1970s that has suddenly made discrimination disappear apart from amendments and improvements to the existing legislation.

You sound like a chap who was in the UDR or had relatives in the UDR.

Neither.  Just someone who has lived through the worst of times in this country and someone able to take an objective view of the factual account of what happened during the last 50 years and not absorbing the alternative narratives now being peddled by both sides to justify their actions.

Your view doesn't seem objective at all. It seems very subjective and contrary to factual events and incidents. In short, you're talking bollocks.

When I get that type of reply from you, I always know I am on the right lines. You are unable to provide any logical argument or repudiation of the facts I have presented instead preferring to slur my name and character as I have highlighted above and then to dismiss anything that argues against your viewpoint.

Your whole viewpoint is based on an illogical argument and nothing of substance so I don't have make an argument as such, which is why I've just alluded to it being the type of apologist nonsense a UDR member would make. This seems to have touched a nerve with you, unsurprisingly.


9
General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: December 09, 2017, 09:20:05 PM »
Life experiences in N.Ireland across the Catholic community varied in the period up to 1967 just as you would find in most societies.  In terms of discrimination against the Catholic community it is important to realise that it was institutional, i.e. the democratic deficit in N.Ireland was produced by gerrymandering over a long period of time to ensure that the absolute minimum number of Catholic representatives could be returned to Stormont and the district councils.  Within government institutions those at the higher levels were from the Protestant community and ensured that new employees came from their own community, so most civil service and similar jobs were given to Protestants regardless of their merit compared to Catholic applicants.  In businesses, there was segregation of the communities, Protestant firms employed Protestants and Catholic firms employed Catholics.  There were some instances of crossover but Catholics could never attain jobs in Protestant firms at anything other than in menial jobs that Protestants wouldn't do, not dissimilar to today's situation where migrants take the jobs that the locals don't want to do.

The one good thing that came from the Unionist parliament was the 1947 Education Act which provided free and universal education for everyone at secondary level.  This meant that the Catholic population was able to access secondary level education and have the opportunity to reach university education (at that stage only 5% of the population attended third level education).  However, this provision did not mean that everyone could afford to have their children at secondary school.  If Catholic parents had low paid work which was the norm then they needed their children to become earners as soon as possible and to leave school and get a job.  Therefore, the Catholic population remained largely poorly education at secondary level for many years after 1947.  However, some families became determined to provide their children with an education and made major sacrifices to keep their children at school.  This provided an increasing educated Catholic cohort, some managing to get to university education.  Their education did not improve their opportunities of work in government institutions.

The democratic deficit at district council level applied to both Catholic and Protestants because as well as discriminating against catholics the unionist establishment wanted to keep their own people in subjection with governments which were conservative/right wing in political position.  Councils provided votes only to rates payers, so if you didn't own property you couldn't vote in council elections.  However, business owners got multiple votes because they paid high levels of rates.  This led to councils that were business owner supporters and ignoring working classes particularly the Catholics but councils ran public housing and education so Catholics and poor Protestants were discriminated against by councils in housing matters but with Catholics at the bottom of the pile.

Then from 1968 on the Catholic population mobilised in protest, working class Protestants were largely paid off by having access to jobs usually low paid and kept in fear by being told the Catholics were uprising for a united Ireland.  The state reacted badly to being confronted.

However, the McCrory Report in 1970 signalled the end of the institutionalised discrimination by providing all with votes in local government and dismantling the apparatus of the state away from discriminating unionist dominated councils. In 1971 the N.Ireland Housing Executive was formed, taking public housing away from discriminating councils. The Local Government (Boundaries) Act (Northern Ireland) 1971 and the Local Government Act (Northern Ireland) 1972 replaced the previous system established by the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898. This replaced the 6 county councils and two borough councils with 26 local councils and ended much of the gerrymandering.

So, from 1972, all citizens of N.Ireland had equal rights in housing, education and local government. By 1976, the Fair Employment Act prohibited discrimination in the workplace on the grounds of religion and established a Fair Employment Agency.

So, from the early 70s discrimination had been removed from institutions and democratic bodies but the same people were still in most civil service and local government jobs and catholics had to resort to legal routes to work their way to top in these areas.

Therefore, all talk of discrimination by the state after the early 70s is largely inaccurate, it still existed with some individuals unless challenged using the agencies that had been created by the UK government.  The problem from early 70s lies with the greater segregation and polarisation of the population caused by the on-going violence of the IRA and UVF/UDA.  From early 70s anyone can get a job or a house or an education anywhere but they will not feel comfortable in the segregated society that has formed.  Polarisation of the communities has become much sharper over the last 40 years and whole populations have moved to make new small towns and some people have been moved in the ethnic cleansing (N.Ireland style) that occurred in the 30 year conflict.

Are you having a laugh??

If you read what I have written you will see that the institutions to remove discrimination as provided from the McCrory Report removed the main elements of state which were in place to allow discrimination.  As I have stated the issue of discrimination remaining was down to the people in state organisation and businesses who continued to discriminate and break the law in doing so. 

Up until the NIHE, ELBs, Fair Employment act and the local government act, all from earlier 70s, it was not illegal for state bodies and business to discriminate in the fields of housing, education and employment. 

The safeguards that ensure discrimination on a religious basis as had happened from the beginning of N.Ireland are no longer acceptable or legal in 2017 were in place from early 70s.  That is a fact.  Did discrimination still occur, yes, but it could be contested, beaten and compensated for thanks to the new institutions and parliamentary acts put in place from early 70s.

Does discrimination still occur in 2017, yes it does but by both sides of the community and those affected have the legal right of challenge and recompense thanks to the laws enacted in 1970's and amended on occasions since then to make them broader and more effective.

There is nothing introduced since the early 1970s that has suddenly made discrimination disappear apart from amendments and improvements to the existing legislation.

You sound like a chap who was in the UDR or had relatives in the UDR.

Neither.  Just someone who has lived through the worst of times in this country and someone able to take an objective view of the factual account of what happened during the last 50 years and not absorbing the alternative narratives now being peddled by both sides to justify their actions.

Your view doesn't seem objective at all. It seems very subjective and contrary to factual events and incidents. In short, you're talking bollocks.

10
General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: December 09, 2017, 08:40:05 PM »
Branching off a bit here, but with Fair Employment introduced which enabled more Catholics to get certain jobs. Now that's in place, has even those Catholics been forced down the list and LBGT's taken priority for jobs? Just a thought.

A terrible, regressive thought that ignores the very basic laws of recruitment. Do you think a gay person has their sexuality tattooed on their forehead or something?

If you're going to try to vaguely target a minority group at least spell it right.

It's an acronym. You cant "spell" an acronym.

Well, if a gay thought by declaring they were gay on a form (which I presume is an option these days), they might declare it if they thought it would increase their chances.
You are an offensive moron.

What's offensive about that?

He won't answer you. He taps out when there's a little bit of pressure applied to him.

He's a windy wee soul.

11
General discussion / Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: December 09, 2017, 08:37:10 PM »
Life experiences in N.Ireland across the Catholic community varied in the period up to 1967 just as you would find in most societies.  In terms of discrimination against the Catholic community it is important to realise that it was institutional, i.e. the democratic deficit in N.Ireland was produced by gerrymandering over a long period of time to ensure that the absolute minimum number of Catholic representatives could be returned to Stormont and the district councils.  Within government institutions those at the higher levels were from the Protestant community and ensured that new employees came from their own community, so most civil service and similar jobs were given to Protestants regardless of their merit compared to Catholic applicants.  In businesses, there was segregation of the communities, Protestant firms employed Protestants and Catholic firms employed Catholics.  There were some instances of crossover but Catholics could never attain jobs in Protestant firms at anything other than in menial jobs that Protestants wouldn't do, not dissimilar to today's situation where migrants take the jobs that the locals don't want to do.

The one good thing that came from the Unionist parliament was the 1947 Education Act which provided free and universal education for everyone at secondary level.  This meant that the Catholic population was able to access secondary level education and have the opportunity to reach university education (at that stage only 5% of the population attended third level education).  However, this provision did not mean that everyone could afford to have their children at secondary school.  If Catholic parents had low paid work which was the norm then they needed their children to become earners as soon as possible and to leave school and get a job.  Therefore, the Catholic population remained largely poorly education at secondary level for many years after 1947.  However, some families became determined to provide their children with an education and made major sacrifices to keep their children at school.  This provided an increasing educated Catholic cohort, some managing to get to university education.  Their education did not improve their opportunities of work in government institutions.

The democratic deficit at district council level applied to both Catholic and Protestants because as well as discriminating against catholics the unionist establishment wanted to keep their own people in subjection with governments which were conservative/right wing in political position.  Councils provided votes only to rates payers, so if you didn't own property you couldn't vote in council elections.  However, business owners got multiple votes because they paid high levels of rates.  This led to councils that were business owner supporters and ignoring working classes particularly the Catholics but councils ran public housing and education so Catholics and poor Protestants were discriminated against by councils in housing matters but with Catholics at the bottom of the pile.

Then from 1968 on the Catholic population mobilised in protest, working class Protestants were largely paid off by having access to jobs usually low paid and kept in fear by being told the Catholics were uprising for a united Ireland.  The state reacted badly to being confronted.

However, the McCrory Report in 1970 signalled the end of the institutionalised discrimination by providing all with votes in local government and dismantling the apparatus of the state away from discriminating unionist dominated councils. In 1971 the N.Ireland Housing Executive was formed, taking public housing away from discriminating councils. The Local Government (Boundaries) Act (Northern Ireland) 1971 and the Local Government Act (Northern Ireland) 1972 replaced the previous system established by the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898. This replaced the 6 county councils and two borough councils with 26 local councils and ended much of the gerrymandering.

So, from 1972, all citizens of N.Ireland had equal rights in housing, education and local government. By 1976, the Fair Employment Act prohibited discrimination in the workplace on the grounds of religion and established a Fair Employment Agency.

So, from the early 70s discrimination had been removed from institutions and democratic bodies but the same people were still in most civil service and local government jobs and catholics had to resort to legal routes to work their way to top in these areas.

Therefore, all talk of discrimination by the state after the early 70s is largely inaccurate, it still existed with some individuals unless challenged using the agencies that had been created by the UK government.  The problem from early 70s lies with the greater segregation and polarisation of the population caused by the on-going violence of the IRA and UVF/UDA.  From early 70s anyone can get a job or a house or an education anywhere but they will not feel comfortable in the segregated society that has formed.  Polarisation of the communities has become much sharper over the last 40 years and whole populations have moved to make new small towns and some people have been moved in the ethnic cleansing (N.Ireland style) that occurred in the 30 year conflict.

Are you having a laugh??

If you read what I have written you will see that the institutions to remove discrimination as provided from the McCrory Report removed the main elements of state which were in place to allow discrimination.  As I have stated the issue of discrimination remaining was down to the people in state organisation and businesses who continued to discriminate and break the law in doing so. 

Up until the NIHE, ELBs, Fair Employment act and the local government act, all from earlier 70s, it was not illegal for state bodies and business to discriminate in the fields of housing, education and employment. 

The safeguards that ensure discrimination on a religious basis as had happened from the beginning of N.Ireland are no longer acceptable or legal in 2017 were in place from early 70s.  That is a fact.  Did discrimination still occur, yes, but it could be contested, beaten and compensated for thanks to the new institutions and parliamentary acts put in place from early 70s.

Does discrimination still occur in 2017, yes it does but by both sides of the community and those affected have the legal right of challenge and recompense thanks to the laws enacted in 1970's and amended on occasions since then to make them broader and more effective.

There is nothing introduced since the early 1970s that has suddenly made discrimination disappear apart from amendments and improvements to the existing legislation.

You sound like a chap who was in the UDR or had relatives in the UDR.

12
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 09, 2017, 08:30:22 PM »
Would Rob Heffernan's World Championship win in 2013 not be as good an achievement as O'Sullivan's?

Maybe walking isn't a real sport. Loads of people just watch the walking for the party afterwards and most of them have never walked in their life. ;)

Walking is a sport but itíd bore a monk to tears.

Anyone trying to discredit sports as sports needs to get their ego in check.

Some sports are better than others, some "sports" aren't even really sports, they merely require a lot of dedication and hard work and pretty much zero in the way of natural skill or ability

13
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 08, 2017, 05:51:58 PM »
Donald, powerlifting (squat, bench, deadlift) isn't done at the Olympics. Weightlifting (Clean&Jerk and Snatch) is. Theyre not the same sport


They not sports at all. They are forms of exercise/bodybuilding.

Theyre sports, as is bodybuilding itself

What about bicep curls?

Lifting objects is not s sport.

14
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 08, 2017, 05:14:26 PM »
Donald, powerlifting (squat, bench, deadlift) isn't done at the Olympics. Weightlifting (Clean&Jerk and Snatch) is. Theyre not the same sport


They not sports at all. They are forms of exercise/bodybuilding.

15
General discussion / Re: Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment RTE 2
« on: December 08, 2017, 04:21:50 PM »
Il Bomber Destro, "I would say sports fans dislike Rugby while weightlifting fans   and strong man fans might enjoy it." Are you suggesting that all the people that watch Ireland playing in the Six Nations aren't sports fans? Are you suggesting that these people also follow weightlifting and/or strong man competitions? Everyone that I know personally that follows rugby also follows G.A.A. and soccer. None of them follow weightlifting or strong man competitions, to the best of my knowledge. Could you clarify your statement?

"Winning in a shit sport with virtually no competition". If the Six Nations had virtually no competition then surely Ireland would have won the grand slam many times? As for calling it a shit sport.......well there's not much to say to that.

"International football is the be all and end all of football. Club football does not compare and never will." What is this based on? The quality on show? Have you been watching Ireland recently? Players are entitled to their view, but from a spectator point of view, do you think the international competitions are or a higher quality than the top club leagues.

Finally, "I don't know where you are getting your completely incorrect viewpoint from." I think this line deserves an award and I don't think there'd be any debate that it should win  ;D


A

I missed this. Bomber, are you saying weightlifting and strongman aren't sports? Whatabout powerlifting? Crossfit?

Yes I am, they are forms of exercise and bodybuilding.


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