The Dubs are goosed, peaked too early. Mayo have no forwards, Donegal are over the hill and Tyrone will be next year before see the best of them. We looking the part and will be peaking for semi final with Jamsie, Moran and Gouch to come back. Who can stop Kerry?
Clare will beat them at the 2nd attempt.
Welcome to gaaboard Cormac Reilly! ;)
Sorry, it's a Tyrone Dublin Final - Have you not seen the thread?
I particularly like the "Dublin have peaked too early" comment. He's bang on the money as everyone knows the Dubs must reach full tilt by July if they are to stand any chance in Leinster.
Gravity will stop Kerry, otherwise time.
I think it is very open this year. Dubs are overrated. Tyrone are not the finished article. Mayo might pull it off.
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on July 18, 2016, 08:20:52 PM
The Dubs are goosed, peaked too early. Mayo have no forwards, Donegal are over the hill and Tyrone will be next year before see the best of them. We looking the part and will be peaking for semi final with Jamsie, Moran and Gouch to come back. Who can stop Kerry?
Anno Domini - pure and simple.
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on July 18, 2016, 08:20:52 PM
The Dubs are goosed, peaked too early. Mayo have no forwards, Donegal are over the hill and Tyrone will be next year before see the best of them. We looking the part and will be peaking for semi final with Jamsie, Moran and Gouch to come back. Who can stop Kerry?
Kerry and Dublin are a good bet for 1 of them to make the final. Heard today Dubs away to la manga for 2 weeks, so expect them to come back fresh.
Quote from: rrhf on July 18, 2016, 10:15:12 PM
Kerry and Dublin are a good bet for 1 of them to make the final. Heard today Dubs away to la manga for 2 weeks, so expect them to come back fresh.
They'd need the heat; it isn't as if you'd get a warm day in Dublin.
Dubz are not on holiday.
Quote from: rrhf on July 18, 2016, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on July 18, 2016, 08:20:52 PM
The Dubs are goosed, peaked too early. Mayo have no forwards, Donegal are over the hill and Tyrone will be next year before see the best of them. We looking the part and will be peaking for semi final with Jamsie, Moran and Gouch to come back. Who can stop Kerry?
Kerry and Dublin are a good bet for 1 of them to make the final. Heard today Dubs away to la manga for 2 weeks, so expect them to come back fresh.
Dubs not going away.
We are there to be taken this year if some team has the cajones to come out and play . O'Carroll, McCaffrey and McCarthy (probably) far too big a loss for any team to overcome. Poor form of MDMA a worry also and a fullback line everyone is saying is too weak.
Galway the real danger to Kerry this year imo.
Quote from: rrhf on July 18, 2016, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on July 18, 2016, 08:20:52 PM
The Dubs are goosed, peaked too early. Mayo have no forwards, Donegal are over the hill and Tyrone will be next year before see the best of them. We looking the part and will be peaking for semi final with Jamsie, Moran and Gouch to come back. Who can stop Kerry?
Heard today Dubs away to la manga for 2 weeks
Dubs don't do warm weather foreign training - that's for the weasel-worded cash rich counties
Im seeing this all over the place about Galway, are people for real ? Oh please gaelic football gods let mayo beat both westmeath and tyrone we will do the rest ourselves.
A Kerry teams go, this current one isn't that great and I'd be doubtful if they'll reach the final. Tyrone or Donegal could topple them. whereas if they meet Dublin before the final they'll get beat fairly comfortably.
Fitz has been working on the blanket defense leaving Geaney and ODonoghue in side in 2 man full forward line. Gouch and Donaghy will be as impact subs for last 20 minutes. They will be peaking for semi
Quote from: thejuice on July 19, 2016, 08:58:55 PM
A Kerry teams go, this current one isn't that great and I'd be doubtful if they'll reach the final. Tyrone or Donegal could topple them. whereas if they meet Dublin before the final they'll get beat fairly comfortably.
They'll play Dublin in the semi and be trounced just like they have been in the last three or four meetings between the sides. That is if they make the semis..
Quote from: Syferus on July 20, 2016, 12:20:19 AM
They'll play Dublin in the semi and be trounced just like they have been in the last three or four meetings between the sides. That is if they make the semis..
That's Kerry into another All Ireland Final so ;D ::)
Lancashire will stop Kerry this weekend......
All-Ireland Junior Semi-Final
Saturday 2:00pm
Lancashire v Kerry
Old Bedians
Manchester
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-dublin-could-pay-dear-for-weakened-defence-1.2727538
"The pecking order, as I see it, remains: Dublin out in front, Kerry next, followed closely by Tyrone, with Galway and Mayo together."
I think Galway or Mayo will win Sam
J. K. Galbraith
"The conventional wisdom"gives way not so much to new ideas as to "the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBALg4xBWXQ
I backed Tyrone at the start of the year, and I think they or Mayo have the best chance of dethroning Dublin. I don't think Kerry have the legs for Dublin. Kerry's forward movement will always give them a chance, it's pretty brilliant in the inside line, but I cannot see the athleticism required to live with Dublin for 70 minutes.
Tyrone and Mayo have that, and I think that if Mayo beat Westmeath, the winners of the Tyrone - Mayo quarter final may be the winners in September.
Who said Kerry always get an easy run to the AI final?
This year it's possible for them to get to a semi final having played Clare, Tipperary and Clare again whereas poor aul Donegal had to play Fermanagh, Monaghan (twice), Tyrone and maybe the Dubs to get to the same stage.
Even the Dubs could have a tough draw this year with Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone all possible opponents.
a bit shooting practice on sunday against Clare. We'll win by about 15-20 points. Looking forward to the semi final now.
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on July 26, 2016, 01:13:02 PM
a bit shooting practice on sunday against Clare. We'll win by about 15-20 points. Looking forward to the semi final now.
You clearly missed those Kerry cute hoor lessons during your formative years. That is it you're actually from Kerry.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 21, 2016, 05:12:06 PM
Who said Kerry always get an easy run to the AI final?
This year it's possible for them to get to a semi final having played Clare, Tipperary and Clare again whereas poor aul Donegal had to play Fermanagh, Monaghan (twice), Tyrone and maybe the Dubs to get to the same stage.
Even the Dubs could have a tough draw this year with Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone all possible opponents.
Fermangh are no better than tipp or clare, monaghan were beaten by longford, this weekend will tell alot about where donegal are. If these teams are being compared to the likes of soft touches tipp and clare theyd still be in the championship. (I do think donegal still have a big say in things). Dublin last year played what? Leinster teams who have been shown up to be certainly no better than any other province, probably touch lower as it is and then fermanagh in the 1/4 final, i wouldnt put that run to an ai semi as being any tougher than kerrys this year
Tipp have a great chance of making the semifinal but they will find Galway a big step up from Derry. Will it be the first time for a lot of these lads from both teams to be playing in Croker? That can always be daunting no matter how much you play it down but at least both teams are in the same boat.
I see McGuinness is back talking about systems and how he has it Dublin at 1, Kerry at 2 and Tyrone next as being most settled into their system of play. You would imagine this Mayo team are further down the experience line than Tyrone are but maybe he means Tyrone stick rigidly to their system no matter what.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258)
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 26, 2016, 03:20:37 PM
Tipp have a great chance of making the semifinal but they will find Galway a big step up from Derry. Will it be the first time for a lot of these lads from both teams to be playing in Croker? That can always be daunting no matter how much you play it down but at least both teams are in the same boat.
I see McGuinness is back talking about systems and how he has it Dublin at 1, Kerry at 2 and Tyrone next as being most settled into their system of play. You would imagine this Mayo team are further down the experience line than Tyrone are but maybe he means Tyrone stick rigidly to their system no matter what.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258)
Mayo have had 3 different managers in the past 2 years though . . .
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 26, 2016, 03:20:37 PM
Tipp have a great chance of making the semifinal but they will find Galway a big step up from Derry. Will it be the first time for a lot of these lads from both teams to be playing in Croker? That can always be daunting no matter how much you play it down but at least both teams are in the same boat.
I see McGuinness is back talking about systems and how he has it Dublin at 1, Kerry at 2 and Tyrone next as being most settled into their system of play. You would imagine this Mayo team are further down the experience line than Tyrone are but maybe he means Tyrone stick rigidly to their system no matter what.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258 (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-why-dublin-and-kerry-lead-the-chasing-pack-1.2734258)
Id say theres very few of them who havent played in croke park, different circumstances though. We won div 4 final there 2 years ago and most of the team played there minor in both hurling and football, few survivers also from our 2010? Qualifier there against the dubs. Id imagine wed have as much if not more experience than galway there. I do agree that galway might be that bit too far ahead of us though. Still whereas dublin, kerry, tyrone, donegal could humiliate us there youd have to fancy we'll give galway a good game at the very least.
Kerry's only two matches this year have come against other quarter finalists. Does that mean that statistically they've had the hardest run of any the quarter finalists given they are the only county to have already played two other of the last 8 teams.
Fitzmaurice building up Clare!!! All the while not believing a word of what he is actually saying!
Eamonn Fitzmaurice says Clare have been disrespected ahead of their All-Ireland quarter-final date with his Kerry side.
The general consensus is that the Kingdom have been granted an easy passage to the last four as they won the Munster title by beating Clare and Tipperary and are now due to take on the Banner County for a second time, but Fitzmaurice points out that Clare - and Tipp - are in the last eight on merit:
"Both teams have gone on to show the quality they have," the Kerry boss is quoted in The Irish News. "I was thinking about it this morning actually. Of the teams that played in Division One this year, only two haven't been beaten by a team from a lower division - ourselves and Dublin.
"The other six have all been beaten by teams in lower divisions. I think that shows the work that is going in by some counties, particularly in Clare and Tipperary, the progress they have made and the wins they have had.
"There was a reaction after the weekend results, when it was confirmed that we were playing Clare, words like 'farcical' were being used and that we were inside in an All-Ireland semi-final without having played the game. Again, I found that disrespectful to Clare, in particular, given they had got to an All-Ireland quarter-final on merit, having played three tough games."
Kerry dont fear Croke Park and they dont fear anyone so they are always dangerous
Sorry I forgot they fear Dublin
Quote from: Kurtz on July 27, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
Kerry dont fear Croke Park and they dont fear anyone so they are always dangerous
Sorry I forgot they fear Dublin
.....and Tyrone!
Quote from: Kurtz on July 27, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
Kerry dont fear Croke Park and they dont fear anyone so they are always dangerous
Sorry I forgot they fear Dublin
And they have a thing about Tyrone. On the other side they don't fear Cork, Mayo or Galway.
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 27, 2016, 03:38:18 PM
Quote from: Kurtz on July 27, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
Kerry dont fear Croke Park and they dont fear anyone so they are always dangerous
Sorry I forgot they fear Dublin
.....and Tyrone!
and Down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di2Qm75vp08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMAdpTuSRk8
Bomber calling a spade a spade.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/eoin-liston-clare-are-a-means-to-an-end-as-kerry-eye-dublin-revenge-34918346.html
On the other hand you then have Fitzmaurice building up Clare as being a tough match etc etc. Sometimes I don't know how he keeps a straight face he talks that much guff building up mediocre opposition at times and surely he can't honestly believe a word that comes out of his own mouth.
Straight from page 1 of the Co manager's Training manual. ;D
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 27, 2016, 03:38:18 PM
Quote from: Kurtz on July 27, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
Kerry dont fear Croke Park and they dont fear anyone so they are always dangerous
Sorry I forgot they fear Dublin
.....and Tyrone!
Had, the last two Championship meetings have ended with Kerry wins.
Wouldn't mind a Kerry Tyrone final this year!
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Is that you Eamon?
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Do you really believe that Kerry's path to the semi final is equitable to others? Seriously? It's not a criticism of Kerry, or Tipp or Clare but for gods sake nobody could look at the way the draw has panned out and think each team has had to overcome similar challenges. They will win the quarter final by over 10 points. It does no favours to Kerry either and they will be at a disadvantage heading into the last four.
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Do you really believe that Kerry's path to the semi final is equitable to others? Seriously? It's not a criticism of Kerry, or Tipp or Clare but for gods sake nobody could look at the way the draw has panned out and think each team has had to overcome similar challenges. They will win the quarter final by over 10 points. It does no favours to Kerry either and they will be at a disadvantage heading into the last four.
That argument is trotted out year after year that Kerry have it easy. Once again the stats don't back that up in my opinion. Their only two games this year have been against quarter finalists. No other county can say that. Bizarrely it's often also claimed that these 'easy runs' do Kerry no good. Once again the stats don't back that up and really we can't have it both ways. Since the qualifiers were introduced in 2001 Kerry have won 5 all Ireland's and played in 5 other finals. More than any other county. This despite the fact that they come from a province that has another county to have appeared in 3 finals in the same period. In a system where there is a back door for me the myth that Kerry have it easy is exactly that a myth. For Kerry will have to beat 2 other quarter finalists ( one of them twice), a semi finalist (possibly Dublin if I've remembered the draw properly) and then a finalist. I don't buy that's an easy all Ireland for them
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Do you really believe that Kerry's path to the semi final is equitable to others? Seriously? It's not a criticism of Kerry, or Tipp or Clare but for gods sake nobody could look at the way the draw has panned out and think each team has had to overcome similar challenges. They will win the quarter final by over 10 points. It does no favours to Kerry either and they will be at a disadvantage heading into the last four.
That argument is trotted out year after year that Kerry have it easy. Once again the stats don't back that up in my opinion. Their only two games this year have been against quarter finalists. No other county can say that. Bizarrely it's often also claimed that these 'easy runs' do Kerry no good. Once again the stats don't back that up and really we can't have it both ways. Since the qualifiers were introduced in 2001 Kerry have won 5 all Ireland's and played in 5 other finals. More than any other county. This despite the fact that they come from a province that has another county to have appeared in 3 finals in the same period. In a system where there is a back door for me the myth that Kerry have it easy is exactly that a myth. For Kerry will have to beat 2 other quarter finalists ( one of them twice), a semi finalist (possibly Dublin if I've remembered the draw properly) and then a finalist. I don't buy that's an easy all Ireland for them
It's trotted out every year because it happens every year. Tipp and Clare did well to get to the qtr finals but that is a very liberal use of "statistics" to justify your point. Any team can achieve that with a reasonable draw. Did you watch the Munster final and think Tipp gave Kerry a proper test and would be serious quarter final opponents to any of the top teams? Did you think the same when they played Clare? Do you think Kerry came off the field that day thinking, that they need to be on top of their game if they meet Clare again in the quarters?
Even since the back door came in Kerry have never had to go from round 1. An easy Munster path always left them either straight into the quarters or one round away. So I don't buy the guff about the qualifiers equalizing the system.
What about these stats, Kerry must best Tipp (div 3) and Clare x2 (div 3) to get to the semi final. Is this equal to playing Derry (div 2) Cavan (div 2), Donegal (div 1) and potentially Mayo (div 1) to get to the same stage? Do you think Tyrone will approach Mayo in the same way Kerry will approach Clare? Kerry have benefited from easy draws for years, it's not their fault and they have made hay, fair play to them. But the structures are wrong and no amount of "stats" will change that!
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Do you really believe that Kerry's path to the semi final is equitable to others? Seriously? It's not a criticism of Kerry, or Tipp or Clare but for gods sake nobody could look at the way the draw has panned out and think each team has had to overcome similar challenges. They will win the quarter final by over 10 points. It does no favours to Kerry either and they will be at a disadvantage heading into the last four.
That argument is trotted out year after year that Kerry have it easy. Once again the stats don't back that up in my opinion. Their only two games this year have been against quarter finalists. No other county can say that. Bizarrely it's often also claimed that these 'easy runs' do Kerry no good. Once again the stats don't back that up and really we can't have it both ways. Since the qualifiers were introduced in 2001 Kerry have won 5 all Ireland's and played in 5 other finals. More than any other county. This despite the fact that they come from a province that has another county to have appeared in 3 finals in the same period. In a system where there is a back door for me the myth that Kerry have it easy is exactly that a myth. For Kerry will have to beat 2 other quarter finalists ( one of them twice), a semi finalist (possibly Dublin if I've remembered the draw properly) and then a finalist. I don't buy that's an easy all Ireland for them
It's trotted out every year because it happens every year. Tipp and Clare did well to get to the qtr finals but that is a very liberal use of "statistics" to justify your point. Any team can achieve that with a reasonable draw. Did you watch the Munster final and think Tipp gave Kerry a proper test and would be serious quarter final opponents to any of the top teams? Did you think the same when they played Clare? Do you think Kerry came off the field that day thinking, that they need to be on top of their game if they meet Clare again in the quarters?
What about these stats, Kerry must best Tipp (div 3) and Clare x2 (div 3) to get to the semi final. Is this equal to playing Derry (div 2) Cavan (div 2), Donegal (div 1) and potentially Mayo (div 1) to get to the same stage? Do you think Tyrone will approach Mayo in the same way Kerry will approach Clare? Kerry have benefited from easy draws for years, it's not their fault and they have made hay, fair play to them. But the structures are wrong and no amount of "stats" will change that!
Are you in favour of scrapping the provincials? Also, Clare and Tipp are probably as good or better than Derry or Cavan. I think Clare will prove to be a genuine division 2 team next year.
Quote from: Zulu on July 28, 2016, 05:07:26 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 04:13:04 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on July 28, 2016, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2016, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 28, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
QuoteWho can stop Kerry?
The only way to stop Kerry is to put them into a competitive championship where they will get tested from the first match onwards, as opposed to the sham-championship we have at present.
They've had the most competitive run to where they are. Munster makes up at least 3/8 of the quarter finalists this year and potentially 1/2 of them should Cork beat Donegal. I don't buy this guff that Kerry have it easy. I do have a problem with them getting a bye through the first round of the qualifiers and I think that's highly unfair but they are where they are on merit.
Do you really believe that Kerry's path to the semi final is equitable to others? Seriously? It's not a criticism of Kerry, or Tipp or Clare but for gods sake nobody could look at the way the draw has panned out and think each team has had to overcome similar challenges. They will win the quarter final by over 10 points. It does no favours to Kerry either and they will be at a disadvantage heading into the last four.
That argument is trotted out year after year that Kerry have it easy. Once again the stats don't back that up in my opinion. Their only two games this year have been against quarter finalists. No other county can say that. Bizarrely it's often also claimed that these 'easy runs' do Kerry no good. Once again the stats don't back that up and really we can't have it both ways. Since the qualifiers were introduced in 2001 Kerry have won 5 all Ireland's and played in 5 other finals. More than any other county. This despite the fact that they come from a province that has another county to have appeared in 3 finals in the same period. In a system where there is a back door for me the myth that Kerry have it easy is exactly that a myth. For Kerry will have to beat 2 other quarter finalists ( one of them twice), a semi finalist (possibly Dublin if I've remembered the draw properly) and then a finalist. I don't buy that's an easy all Ireland for them
It's trotted out every year because it happens every year. Tipp and Clare did well to get to the qtr finals but that is a very liberal use of "statistics" to justify your point. Any team can achieve that with a reasonable draw. Did you watch the Munster final and think Tipp gave Kerry a proper test and would be serious quarter final opponents to any of the top teams? Did you think the same when they played Clare? Do you think Kerry came off the field that day thinking, that they need to be on top of their game if they meet Clare again in the quarters?
What about these stats, Kerry must best Tipp (div 3) and Clare x2 (div 3) to get to the semi final. Is this equal to playing Derry (div 2) Cavan (div 2), Donegal (div 1) and potentially Mayo (div 1) to get to the same stage? Do you think Tyrone will approach Mayo in the same way Kerry will approach Clare? Kerry have benefited from easy draws for years, it's not their fault and they have made hay, fair play to them. But the structures are wrong and no amount of "stats" will change that!
Are you in favour of scrapping the provincials? Also, Clare and Tipp are probably as good or better than Derry or Cavan. I think Clare will prove to be a genuine division 2 team next year.
I would definitely think that the provincials have had their day. I agree that Derry and Cavan are no world beaters and its probably touch and go between them and Tipp or Clare on any given day. But I've said before, I'd be making the same point if Tyrone had to beat Derry, then Cavan and then Derry again to make it to the AI semi final. That would be an equivalent draw. But throw in games v Donegal and Mayo and it highlights the lop sidedness of the draw.
Oh I agree. I'm not saying it isn't lopsided but until we scrap the four set groups of uneven number (better known as the provinces!!) then we are doomed to the nonsense competition we see each year.
I've just posted in another thread that the most dispiriting thing about this whole thing is that we have teams and players that would provide the best sports entertainment in the world week in week out if they played each other in big games where the attitude was to go and win as opposed to not lose.
We currently have a system where there is a provincial competition played twice during the season. The provincial championships and the pre-season McKenna/O'Byrne cups etc etc. The pre-season competition could be retained for use as the provincial championship and then have an open draw All Ireland series.
I think the point I was trying to make in a very bad way is that I don't think Kerry's championship is any easier than any of the other quarter finalists. Not suggesting it's much harder either though. That's probably more to do with the fact that at present there seems to be three teams on the top shelf in terms of quality (Tyrone, Kerry and Dublin). 2/3 on the next level (Donegal, Mayo and Galway). After that it's a big drop in quality in my opinion.
To get the quarterfinals you don't have to beat any of them because of the back door.
Kerry have already played 2 of the other quarter finalists who arguably make up the best of the rest.
Tyrone have played an average Derry side, an average Cavan side and a good Donegal side. Even had they lost to Donegal they would only have had to beat an Average Cork side to make the quarters.
Similar comparisons can be made for other counties (bar Dublin as Leinster seems to be a shambles). So I don't buy this myth that Kerry have it easy. Their route to the quarter finals has been harder than Dublins and comparable to Tyrones in my opinion. Certainly not far easier than Tyrone or Galways path.
That said I do find it very unfair that two Munster teams have already received a bye through the first round of next years qualifiers.
Tommy Carr on commentary here in the Kerry, Clare game, why god why??
Donaghy the worst man in the country for hitting wee men on the sneak with borderline yellow card tackles
Pass of the championship? (For the goal)
Kerry think they're in the Semi already, real lack of intensity
Some of these drag down tackles look like the reason the black card was brought in for, cant understand why the ref gives yellow, they look fairly deliberate drag downs to me.
Kerry block man off ball. No action taken. Donaghy fouls at will. No action taken. The deference shown to the Kerry team is still unbelievable.
As Joe Brolly said, Roscommon really are useless to be beaten by Clare, Clare have no forwards, kerry will win this pulling up
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2016, 02:33:20 PM
As Joe Brolly said, Roscommon really are useless to be beaten by Clare, Clare have no forwards, kerry will win this pulling up
Clare aren't useless either. It's just that Kerry have a psychological advantage over them. They'd put up a better effort against Dublin.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
Donaghy the worst man in the country for hitting wee men on the sneak with borderline yellow card tackles
The box on the head he gave to the Clare lad was more a borderline red card to be honest.
Podge Collins is very selfish.
Only gives the pass when he absolutely has to, which is usually a second too late.
That annual procession went as inexorably as expected, though Championship fare it surely ain't!
The fact that an All Ireland quarter final didn't even merit a thread of its own tells you all you need to know about this match.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 31, 2016, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
Donaghy the worst man in the country for hitting wee men on the sneak with borderline yellow card tackles
The box on the head he gave to the Clare lad was more a borderline red card to be honest.
It was over the borderline, a straight red,
for deliberately striking a grounded opponent on the face with a hard slap.
A yellow at most.
With what's happening in the Galway v Tipp match, Kerry's run to the semi looks slightly more impressive.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 31, 2016, 05:32:21 PM
With what's happening in the Galway v Tipp match, Kerry's run to the semi looks slightly more impressive.
And what about what happened in the Kerry v Clare game? The team they had to play twice?
I still don't see Clare as any worse than the likes of Derry, Cavan, Fermanagh etc. So I don't see Kerry's run to the QF as any more difficult than Tyrone or Dublin or Galway.
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Quote from: David McKeown on July 31, 2016, 07:15:56 PM
I still don't see Clare as any worse than the likes of Derry, Cavan, Fermanagh etc. So I don't see Kerry's run to the QF as any more difficult than Tyrone or Dublin or Galway.
But do you not see that if Tyrone had to beat Derry then Cavan then Derry again to get to a semi final then that would be equivalent to Kerry's run. The huge elephant in the room that you can't seem to grasp is that in the case of Tyrone for example they also have to beat two further Div 1 teams in Donegal and Mayo to get to the stage that Kerry are now at. If you and others like you are of the immovable mindset that this is still equitable them no wonder change is so hard to come by in the GAA.
Isn't beating teams that beat Div 1 teams better than beating those same Div 1 teams?
I'd like to change my answer to the Kerry midfield - Donaghy and Moran were no great shakes but Maher and Sheehan when they came on were woeful. Maher I suppose at least has the excuse that he was out injured for a year, the other 3 were shocking imo.
wouldn't hurt Kerry to put Paul Murphy in midfield, he offering nothing from 11, and give Kerry some mobility to go along side Moran in the middle
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 31, 2016, 08:21:36 PM
I'd like to change my answer to the Kerry midfield - Donaghy and Moran were no great shakes but Maher and Sheehan when they came on were woeful. Maher I suppose at least has the excuse that he was out injured for a year, the other 3 were shocking imo.
Johnny Buckley would give them a bit of mobility at midfield when he gets fits.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 31, 2016, 08:21:36 PM
I'd like to change my answer to the Kerry midfield - Donaghy and Moran were no great shakes but Maher and Sheehan when they came on were woeful. Maher I suppose at least has the excuse that he was out injured for a year, the other 3 were shocking imo.
the best two are clearly Maher and Moran, in my opinion. But they get less support from their half forwards / half backs than any of the other top teams. That's what they need to fix.
The Kerry forward line is the one best equipped to topple Dublin, but their backline is questionable. Don't think Fitz has ever got on top of what his best team is.
I know there was a lot of talk about Kerry being in transition in 2014 but I reckon this year is the end of the road for a lot of them. There are just so many of the players that just don't look anyway near mobile enough.
Sheehan, O'Mahony and O'Se all looked woeful when they came on - I think a lot of the Clare goal chances came when they were all on the pitch - O'Mahony was very poor initially for the Clare chance that he deflected off the line - his positioning was an utter mess. I think within 5 minutes of Sheehan coming on he gave up on a footchase of a Clare player and looked out of puff. O'Se had a very easy chance for a tap over point but he looked out of puff after getting in that position. Clare players ran away from Maher on a couple of occasions (although he does have the being out injured for a year as an excuse but that's going to count for zero in a competitive game)
These were 4 out of the 6 subs -if they are coming on and not looking to be able to for the pace in a game seriously lacking in intensity I cna't see them doing anything in a game where there is any sort of intensity - BJK did look lively but that was against a Clare side who had thrown in the towel at that stage and I think 2 if not 3 of the starting Clare backs had been called ashore at that stage. The young Brosnan lad didn't really feature but was only on for a handful of minutes and was making his first senior appearance. I think the notion of Kerry having a strong squad is rubbish - I think their only hope is that Donegal take out Dublin somehow.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
Kerry have no right to be in an all Ireland semi final this year at this point. The entire championship is bordering on appearing as an engineering mechanism to return certain teams to the top table each year.
Kerry's training for the season can begin in earnest now.
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 31, 2016, 10:16:35 PM
Kerry's training for the season can begin in earnest now.
Their training started today. Nice run-out before the semi final.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 31, 2016, 03:00:03 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 31, 2016, 02:19:46 PM
Donaghy the worst man in the country for hitting wee men on the sneak with borderline yellow card tackles
The box on the head he gave to the Clare lad was more a borderline red card to be honest.
Never a red card
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Quote from: themac_23 on August 01, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Exactly, changing the structure of the championship without doing something to raise the standards in underperforming counties will change nothing.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 01, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on August 01, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Exactly, changing the structure of the championship without doing something to raise the standards in underperforming counties will change nothing.
Yes but at each team will have equitable routes to the semi finals.
Not the thread for it but changing the format can have a massive impact upon the season. Yes, the strongest teams will still most likely make the last 8 but most of us could probably predict the top 4 in the premiership, la liga and the Bundesliga, the winner of the Olympic 100m, the semi finalists in the next rugby world cup, the semi finalists in the next soccer world cup, the playoff teams in the NFL etc. (not saying we'd get all of those right of course but you have a lot of usual suspects who tend to be at the business end of their sport). The likes of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo will be there or thereabouts most years and that's fine but we can make the journey there more interesting for all involved.
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 01, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on August 01, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Exactly, changing the structure of the championship without doing something to raise the standards in underperforming counties will change nothing.
No no no no no no stop talking nonsense. Sure a champions league format with a backdoor option for the top 4 teams will ensure scintillating balling all summer long, all games will go to the wire [if a draw can be avoided it can only be done so by a last minute sideline wonderscore], there won't be a handpass in sight and every game will be all ticket. Easypeasy.
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 01, 2016, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 01, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on August 01, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Exactly, changing the structure of the championship without doing something to raise the standards in underperforming counties will change nothing.
Yes but at each team will have equitable routes to the semi finals.
More than currently?
You could have a group that's
Kerry
Armagh
Offaly
London
And another group of
Dublin
Tyrone
Tipperary
Louth
Hardly any more equitable than the current system.
Quote from: David McKeown on August 01, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 01, 2016, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on August 01, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on August 01, 2016, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 01, 2016, 08:58:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 31, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
If we're being honest with ourselves, there was absolutely no way of a Clare win today, just not possible. Is that what we want as a Quarter-Final, as a 'spectacle'?
The Provincial system proves yet again that it has no place in 2016, listen to f**k up GAA suits!
Tá an ceart agat. There is too much psychological history left in the provincial championships. Clare and Roscommon would benefit from a more open system.
This and the media which is dominated by experts from the "top" counties fuel it even more. It's all just a cycle of teams been told they are beaten before they even step on the pitch.
People think by changing the system and format mean it will change, no chance. all that will change will be the names of the counties, in fact it would probably become more of a closed shop. for example if they go for the 8 groups of 4, it will simply be seeded by division so each group will have a div 1 team, div 2 team, div 3 team and div 4 team. the last 16 will then be a case of the teams finishing top playing teams that finish 2nd. again the big teams will be kept apart. so we will still be ending up with the situation we are in now with the same teams at our 1/4 final stage and if anything it will be with less competitive games. people think the gaa are going to go for an open draw, not a chance.
Exactly, changing the structure of the championship without doing something to raise the standards in underperforming counties will change nothing.
Yes but at each team will have equitable routes to the semi finals.
More than currently?
You could have a group that's
Kerry
Armagh
Offaly
London
And another group of
Dublin
Tyrone
Tipperary
Louth
Hardly any more equitable than the current system.
At least that will be the same number of games against teams who are at a level because of their results. I.e. Tipp have emerged from div 3 this year but it's more of an anomaly, the rest of div 3 are much of a muchness. At least any favourable draw can be in the hands of the county themselves. I.e get promoted and you'll get a better seed and not based on geography. Also the odds on one county like Kerry getting a favourable draw EVERY year is much reduced.
another thing they could do to make those group of four games interesting, (practicalities aside) would be to make them all double headers. So not only do you see your own team on the day but you could watch the other group opponents. could really stoke things up a bit.
i was approaching Croke Park just after half time in the Kerry V Clare match, i saw a Kerry reg bus go by, there seemed to be a team onboard, would it of been the Kerry minor team? did they not stay around for the Kerry/Clare match ?
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
Quote from: thebackbar1 on August 02, 2016, 09:48:10 AM
i was approaching Croke Park just after half time in the Kerry V Clare match, i saw a Kerry reg bus go by, there seemed to be a team onboard, would it of been the Kerry minor team? did they not stay around for the Kerry/Clare match ?
Could have been the Kerry senior team on the bus tbf...
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
The problem is money rules! The Munster championship is set-up to have a Cork/Kerry Munster final. That is where the money is. Cork and Kerry might not travel in their droves to Croker, but they will travel to large numbers to Killarney or pairc ui chaoimh when they are playing each other. Tipperary and Clare have poor following in football. The Munster final would have been seen as a huge loss to without Cork in it! You see provincial games still offer the bigger crowds at games. Back-door or open draw, would not come near.
Kerry
Armagh
Offaly
London
Can you imagine the poor crowds at some of the games? To make things interesting you'd have to make finishing third as a backdoor route to cut down on dead rubber games in the final round of games.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.
There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.
About €9m to be found somewhere else.
Yes, but I don't think it proves one is working and the other is not - neither are working IMO. I actually believe a proper competition format would generate multiple millions more through TV, advertising, attendances and sponsorship.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.
About €9m to be found somewhere else.
Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.
There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?
I see the one man band is still on the go.
One man band, are you having a laugh???? Colm Collins, manager of Clare, wants them scrapped and Darren O'Sullivan says he prefers the league, not to mention all the posters questioning the format here and on other GAA boards or the numerous newspaper articles and radio TV debates on the fact the current format doesn't work.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong?
Quote from: Syferus on August 02, 2016, 11:15:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair. Anyway the debate isn't provincials v qualifiers it's about the format overall and I just see how you can have a fair sensible format if it's based on 4 groups of differing size (6, 7, 9 and 11) who remain the same year in year out where the same one or two teams will dominate in each group for 80-90% of the time.
There were 15,000 at the Connacht replay between two counties who hadn't won a Connacht final for years and we have Galway posters readily admitting the Connacht win has been seriously undermined by the Tipp result. Even the Munster hurling championship, the poster boy for the provincials, has seen very poor crowds so it's clear their day is up. The only question is how long will keep a daft competition format just so we can retain them?
I see the one man band is still on the go.
Could you take your head out of the sand. System is broken.Needs to be tweaked big time.
I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 03, 2016, 12:57:29 AM
I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.
Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 03, 2016, 01:33:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 03, 2016, 12:57:29 AM
I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.
Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.
I think we have to get rid of the provincials but perhaps they can be played on their own. They can't, however, be linked to the All Ireland IMO. I've suggested seeding teams from the league which I think solves most problems but I've seen other formats that look good too.
I'd not be in favour of groups as I think it's pointless putting Leitrim in with a Dublin or Kerry but I don't think the provincials are necessary to ensure we get local rivalries and a lot more people will go to see Dublin v Tyrone or Mayo v Kerry than Antrim v Derry or Galway v Sligo for example so I think 9 million euros could be easily replaced and improved on.
The system isn't just about money or competitive games it's also about promotion. We currently have one that has Dublin footballers and Kilkenny hurlers on TV in important games against teams that can genuinely compete with them about 6 times a year between the two! Christ, even if you went to every game they played you'd only see them play genuine opponents maybe 6 times a year each. What sport would have two of it's best ever teams on TV 3 times a year in important games??
And all the while Waterford and Carlow etc. get a few games that they might win on shite pitches in February and then get one or two (largely) unwinnable games in the summer before packing in IC football for the bones of 7 months. That's a format only an anti-GAA man could support but for some reason many genuine GAA people still do.
Quote from: Zulu on August 03, 2016, 01:54:12 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 03, 2016, 01:33:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 03, 2016, 12:57:29 AM
I'm not claiming the present system is perfect, far from it but I don't see a series of group games replacing the at least €9m the Provincials generate.
Also the local rivalries, tradition etc.
For every possible Tyrone v Kerry you'll have a lot of bald men fighting over combs games. Yet the bald men want to be in the "Best hair" competition .
Maybe play Provincials on round robin basis and have a separate open draw all Ireland with Provincial Champions seeded.
No matter what system about 20 teams won't have a hope anyway.
Wouldn't object to that idea, run them off in May and June and go from there. Not against altering the system but don't want to see the provincial championships lost to history in the process.
I think we have to get rid of the provincials but perhaps they can be played on their own. They can't, however, be linked to the All Ireland IMO. I've suggested seeding teams from the league which I think solves most problems but I've seen other formats that look good too.
I'd not be in favour of groups as I think it's pointless putting Leitrim in with a Dublin or Kerry but I don't think the provincials are necessary to ensure we get local rivalries and a lot more people will go to see Dublin v Tyrone or Mayo v Kerry than Antrim v Derry or Galway v Sligo for example so I think 9 million euros could be easily replaced and improved on.
The system isn't just about money or competitive games it's also about promotion. We currently have one that has Dublin footballers and Kilkenny hurlers on TV in important games against teams that can genuinely compete with them about 6 times a year between the two! Christ, even if you went to every game they played you'd only see them play genuine opponents maybe 6 times a year each. What sport would have two of it's best ever teams on TV 3 times a year in important games??
And all the while Waterford and Carlow etc. get a few games that they might win on shite pitches in February and then get one or two (largely) unwinnable games in the summer before packing in IC football for the bones of 7 months. That's a format only an anti-GAA man could support but for some reason many genuine GAA people still do.
I think that the main opposition to a reform of the provincial system comes from the hurling confraternity as the snobbish "elite" would buck at any notion to amend/alter/change the present system in any way.
Ask any Tipp or Cork hurling fan if he'd like to see the end of the Munster Final as we know it and you'll get your answer into words, that last of them being "off!"
For some reason, Wexford supporters come across, to me at any rate, as the most intransigent bunch of the lot. I don't recall ever coming across a hurling supporter from any of the so-called traditional counties who said he or she was in favour of a change in the present format.
Granted, there well be be some but I just haven't met one yet.
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 02, 2016, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.
About €9m to be found somewhere else.
Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!
Kerry play Tyrone a bit already in Omagh. How many Kerry fans attend these league games? Dressing it up as some kind of championship still wont get Kerry fans to travel either.
last weekend's games in CP were decent pairings between teams going into the business end of things. But f**k all bothered to actually go to the games. And they wouldn t have bothered if the games were anywhere else either. CP relatively accessible from most parts of the country. Omagh and Killarney are not.
Quote from: moysider on August 04, 2016, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on August 02, 2016, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on August 02, 2016, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2016, 12:47:51 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 02, 2016, 12:29:40 PM
On the provincial championships the fact that someone like the Clare manager has come out so strongly against them should be noted.
The fact that a manager such as Collins who has walked the walk in terms of improving his team thinks they are a waste of time is a big signal for me that they are past their sell-by date.
If attendances at games are any indication the Provincials are here to stay while the Qualifiers seem past their sell by date.
25 games in Qualifiers attracted around 110,000 with about half that at the 3 Mayowestros games.
32 Provincial games =425,000 approx.
I know there were Replays in the Provincials but the equivalent for 2015 was approx 115k and 450k.
Don't think those figures prove much to be fair.
About €9m to be found somewhere else.
Every team would have at least 4 games. Currently a significant number of counties only have 2. Surely this would offset any substantial loss. Some big games such as Tyrone v Kerry in Omagh or Dublin v Derry at Celtic park would attract big crowds. If teams get on a bit of a run, attendances will improve. Yes, there'll be a few dead rubbers but there will also be a lot of potential big games at regional grounds which could be very attractive!
Kerry play Tyrone a bit already in Omagh. How many Kerry fans attend these league games? Dressing it up as some kind of championship still wont get Kerry fans to travel either.
last weekend's games in CP were decent pairings between teams going into the business end of things. But f**k all bothered to actually go to the games. And they wouldn t have bothered if the games were anywhere else either. CP relatively accessible from most parts of the country. Omagh and Killarney are not.
What was the crowd like when Tyrone played Kerry in Killarney a few years ago in the championship?
Edit: over 24,000 - build it and they will come!
I wonder why Kerry don't try Bryan Sheehan in goals. He's a big man, has a very accurate and long kickout, could come out for the frees a lá Cluxton or Galligan from Cavan, and he has experience of playing in goals, albeit as a minor. He's not able for midfield, especially against a Dublin, so it might be a way to keep him on the field and actually add something on the kickouts.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 04, 2016, 10:50:07 AM
I wonder why Kerry don't try Bryan Sheehan in goals. He's a big man, has a very accurate and long kickout, could come out for the frees a lá Cluxton or Galligan from Cavan, and he has experience of playing in goals, albeit as a minor. He's not able for midfield, especially against a Dublin, so it might be a way to keep him on the field and actually add something on the kickouts.
In a high intensity game I do think Sheehan is a weak link. Very gifted ball player but doesn't have the mobility or physicality to last 70 minutes. He is arguably the purest dead ball striker of a ball in the country and its certainly not a bad idea but it is something that would need to be worked on from the start of the season. Also his method of striking a free kick on goals and drawing the ball in would have to change for taking kick outs, though I am fairly sure he would have the ability to adapt.
Yeah. I'm not suggesting they do it now, but I would suspect his inter county career is drawing to a close, and he's always going to have that asterix over him. Great freetaker but...... It's probably/definitely cost him his place on Kerry teams in the past, and he's going to be outside the top 15 again v Donegal or Dublin I bet.
Maybe for 2017, if he wants to extend his career and become a more guaranteed starter, maybe it's something he/Fitzmaurice would look at.
I'd say his performance versus Clare would have left major question marks for Fitzmaurice. That's an interesting idea, AZ. Certainly has paid dividends for the likes of Cavan with Giligan.
And he *has* played in goals as a minor. I remember him coming along as a young lad, and he was a Kerry minor goalkeeper.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 04, 2016, 11:20:25 AM
And he *has* played in goals as a minor. I remember him coming along as a young lad, and he was a Kerry minor goalkeeper.
For a team like Kerry, surely there is better goal keepers in the county than trying to convert Sheehan at this stage of his career? What message does that send to the goalkeepers on the squad/county?
It tells them they better get better at their kickouts :)
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 04, 2016, 12:15:17 PM
It tells them they better get better at their kickouts :)
True! 😀 Kerry haven't played enough meaningful games this year for me to be aware but is this a major problem for them at the minute?
Distance free taking and kick outs are definitely major issues for Kerry.
Looking forward to final against mayo
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on August 06, 2016, 10:48:03 PM
Looking forward to final against mayo
The Junior final? That was played yesterday! :-\
Kerry i feel will have little chance against Dublin, play to open, and no pace in the defence against a serious set of forwards, The Dublin team needs abit of change, A long ball option in O`Gara would bring a big difference to the dubs as brogan can play of him (His red card be rescinded, there was nothing in it) with Connolly out round the half forward line. I move Flynn to midfield, MacCauley hasn't the legs for it any more by the look of it.
Quote from: kerryforsam16 on August 06, 2016, 10:48:03 PM
Looking forward to final against mayo
You must have bought tickets from Pat Hickey? ;D
A lot of talk about this Kerry team being old and finished but with the exception of O'Mahoney, Mark O'Shea (who both have been replaced for most of the year anyway), Kieran Donaghy and maybe Gooch who haven't played a lot of games the last 2 years anyway.
Most of their defence seem to be quite young now and with Geaney and James O'Donoghue their new star forwards.
Bryan Sheehan will be a big loss of course as such a reliable free taker is so important in todays game. Look how Dublin have replaced Cluxton with Dean Rock and most games he plays he scores 10-12 points quite often.
You would not be too surprised to see them back in the top 3 again next year.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 03:39:28 PM
You would not be too surprised to see them back in the top 3 again next year.
Probably says more about the state of the other supposed good sides. In that there aren't very many.
2017 All Ireland semi-finals:
Mayo v Kerry
Dublin v Tyrone
Take it to the bank.
Tyrone might mess that up by taking the scenic route, but I don't think so.
I would have said Mayo would be a cert to lose in Connacht the year after an AI final win, but I think losing to Galway once was enough. So even if they win Sam, they'll just take the league off and come back and win Connacht. Albeit they might be vulnerable in the quarter-finals if they draw an Ulster team.
But if Mayo lose this year's final, I'd be very confident they'll be back in the final in 2017. Where they'll finally get over the line by beating a Tyrone team, who would have celebrated too much after taking the Dubs down in the semis!
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 30, 2016, 03:39:28 PM
A lot of talk about this Kerry team being old and finished but with the exception of O'Mahoney, Mark O'Shea (who both have been replaced for most of the year anyway), Kieran Donaghy and maybe Gooch who haven't played a lot of games the last 2 years anyway.
Most of their defence seem to be quite young now and with Geaney and James O'Donoghue their new star forwards.
Bryan Sheehan will be a big loss of course as such a reliable free taker is so important in todays game. Look how Dublin have replaced Cluxton with Dean Rock and most games he plays he scores 10-12 points quite often.
You would not be too surprised to see them back in the top 3 again next year.
Kerry have transitioned well and players like O'Mahoney, O'Se and Donaghy are past their best now anyway and will not leave that big of a hole behind if they retire. I'd imagine Sheehan and the Gooch will be others considering their positions. All of these players are no longer automatic first choice players though and this is where Fitzmaurice has done well. He has introduced a lot of new players who whilst not individually as talented as the Kerry team of the 00's, they still have a lot of decent players. Add in a conveyor belt of 18/19/20 year olds and it won't be long before they are back winning AI titles again. Their short term aim should be to win an U-21 title next year and introduce one or two more. Now would not be the right time for Fitzmaurice to go imo.
Quote from: Hound on August 30, 2016, 04:36:59 PM
2017 All Ireland semi-finals:
Mayo v Kerry
Dublin v Tyrone
Take it to the bank.
Tyrone might mess that up by taking the scenic route, but I don't think so.
I would have said Mayo would be a cert to lose in Connacht the year after an AI final win, but I think losing to Galway once was enough. So even if they win Sam, they'll just take the league off and come back and win Connacht. Albeit they might be vulnerable in the quarter-finals if they draw an Ulster team.
But if Mayo lose this year's final, I'd be very confident they'll be back in the final in 2017. Where they'll finally get over the line by beating a Tyrone team, who would have celebrated too much after taking the Dubs down in the semis!
Excellent.
I'm off for a cryogenic sleep for a year so. If I am not back before this day next year, send someone to wake me up.
Goodnight!
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShpVNj0LmpWMg2zd38R_GG_L-2Gw7Zl3O_uIC_W6ztbm-8MMRR4A)
I can't say I'm feeling too sorry for Kerry, Cork are a shambles and will probably continue to do so and I'm not convinced Tipp will continue to improve. That with Kerry's ability to always find a soft opponent in a quarter final will probably lead them back to a semi final next year.
I'd imagine the Gooch will carry on and if I was in charge I'd be trying to persuade Donaghy to stay on too. Kerry's minors are going for 3 in a row and their juniors have just won back to back All Irelands hammering everyone who got in their way. It won't be too long before their bringing Sam Maguire back to Kerry.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on August 30, 2016, 07:41:45 PM
I can't say I'm feeling too sorry for Kerry, Cork are a shambles and will probably continue to do so and I'm not convinced Tipp will continue to improve. That with Kerry's ability to always find a soft opponent in a quarter final will probably lead them back to a semi final next year.
I'd imagine the Gooch will carry on and if I was in charge I'd be trying to persuade Donaghy to stay on too. Kerry's minors are going for 3 in a row and their juniors have just won back to back All Irelands hammering everyone who got in their way. It won't be too long before their bringing Sam Maguire back to Kerry.
Kerry minor panel of last 2 years decimated by injuries. Had to laugh when I read Jack O Connor lamenting his u21 injury list this year...he should know why.
Mark O Connor minor winning captain x 2 has hardly kicked a ball all year...