just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
Quote from: johnpower on September 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
Tyrone won 5 Ulster titles, 3 AI's and 2 league titles over a 10 year period. 2001-2010
Dublin won 5 Leinster titles, 3 AI's and 3 league titles over a 5 year period. 2011-2015
This thread will only go one way.
Basically..........
That group of Tyrone players are the greatest sportsmen the world has ever seen.
Give them all hurls an they would have beaten any Kilkenny team from any era. Put 11 of them on a soccer pitch and they would haven beaten any Brazil team,same with the All Blacks if you put them on a Rugby pitch.
Brian Dooher would have won the F1 Championship blindfolded and Owen Mulligan would have won the snooker world championship with one arm tied behind his back.
Ali wouldn't have had a chance against any of them.
They were and still are the greatest ever and Tyrone is the centre of the known universe.
Why not compare them to the Kerry team of that era, John?
They both brought puke football to new depths
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 08:07:53 PM
Quote from: johnpower on September 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
Tyrone won 5 Ulster titles, 3 AI's and 2 league titles over a 10 year period. 2001-2010
Dublin won 5 Leinster titles, 3 AI's and 3 league titles over a 5 year period. 2011-2015
Kerry won 6 Munster titles, 5 AI's and 3 league titles over a 10 year period. 2000-2009
Quote from: T Fearon on September 22, 2015, 08:56:14 PM
They both brought puke football to new depths
Someone's up to divilment ;D
Ye can talk about titles and this and that, but when it all boils down to it, if the two teams lined up against each other both on their best day, Tyrone woulda beat them out the gate.
Can anywhere in the world ( apart from Cork) compare to Tymoan for non stop self praise?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 09:07:50 PM
Ye can talk about titles and this and that, but when it all boils down to it, if the two teams lined up against each other both on their best day, Tyrone woulda beat them out the gate.
You know what, why don't they go at it hell for leather in 25 years time. Winner then is the best team etc... ::)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 22, 2015, 09:29:48 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 09:07:50 PM
Ye can talk about titles and this and that, but when it all boils down to it, if the two teams lined up against each other both on their best day, Tyrone woulda beat them out the gate.
You know what, why don't they go at it hell for leather in 25 years time. Winner then is the best team etc... ::)
They couldn't bate Laois in 2006 ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on September 22, 2015, 09:28:24 PM
Can anywhere in the world ( apart from Cork) compare to Tymoan for non stop self praise?
I think the Rossies did a good job of this earlier in the year, that U21 team were world beaters and sure, your seniors were all Ireland contenders. Imagine if you did actually win something!
Quote from: johnpower on September 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
[/quote
Similar but dublins should get round to retaining an all Ireland.
Quote from: laoislad on September 22, 2015, 09:32:33 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 22, 2015, 09:29:48 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 09:07:50 PM
Ye can talk about titles and this and that, but when it all boils down to it, if the two teams lined up against each other both on their best day, Tyrone woulda beat them out the gate.
You know what, why don't they go at it hell for leather in 25 years time. Winner then is the best team etc... ::)
They couldn't bate Laois in 2006 ;D
And Mayo (GHU) in 2004!
Is this a serious thread?
Tyrone.
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
How can you compare a side that won 3 All Ireland's (getting beat twice en route to 2 of them) in 5 years to a side that have already won 3 with the likelihood of more to follow. Dublin have been consistently thereabouts in each of the last 5 years and could go on to become the most dominant side since the Kerry golden team. Comparisons with Tyrone are silly as Dublin have already surpassed them.
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
How does that prove Tyrone were better ???
None of the factors you listed lessen dublin as a team and they can not be used in comparing both teams. It is hard to say but I think dublin due to their phenomenal pace and power. Tyrone might have had some better footbAllers and dublin have no one in the class of Sean Cavanagh in 2008.
Has to be Tyrone, them lads would've won the Fifa World Cup and rugby World Cup if they had entered. In fact if all them lads came out of retirement tomorrow and played Dublin with no training I doubt Dublin would get out of their own half. Plus that team invented football and tactics, what did Dublin ever invent.
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 08:07:53 PM
Quote from: johnpower on September 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
Tyrone won 5 Ulster titles, 3 AI's and 2 league titles over a 10 year period. 2001-2010
Dublin won 5 Leinster titles, 3 AI's and 3 league titles over a 5 year period. 2011-2015
I doubt if the Provincial titles are any help in this analysis. Tyrone were in a reputable province where another team from the province won an AI in that period and another team played in the AI final and where they were playing most of the team that win the 2012 AI.
Also Tyrone weren't playing at home.
Well if Leinster Council actually voted them out of CP, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. Sadly though for them money talks.
Quote from: Itchy on September 22, 2015, 10:15:39 PM
Has to be Tyrone, them lads would've won the Fifa World Cup and rugby World Cup if they had entered. In fact if all them lads came out of retirement tomorrow and played Dublin with no training I doubt Dublin would get out of their own half. Plus that team invented football and tactics, what did Dublin ever invent.
::) I wonder how many variations of this sort of hilarious comment will we get in this thread? We've got a couple already.
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Tyrone beat a lot of crap teams too and struggled to beat teams this Dublin team would have blown out of the water.
You can't call some of the Ulster championship games a high standard. They can be intense and tight but quite often the standard of football is utterly abject
2 very good teams but I think Dublin shade it
Is it fair to say the levels of finessed spiralled mid-00s like never before? I think Kerry 75-86, well to 84, could have coped with any AI winner til 2005/6, including Down, Derry, Donegal, Dubs 95, the Meath, Kerry and Galway sides til 01. Maybe even Tyrone and Armagh 02 and 03.
Now, fitness levels are at such a high it would be hard to see that older generation competing after 50 mins at their prime today.
Dublin today may have been physically too professional for Tyrone 03-08. And it's only going one direction until peak physical condition an athlete can reach...if we're not already there.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 22, 2015, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Tyrone beat a lot of crap teams too and struggled to beat teams this Dublin team would have blown out of the water.
You can't call some of the Ulster championship games a high standard. They can be intense and tight but quite often the standard of football is utterly abject
A bit like Sunday
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
Ah ffs : we all know dublin have advantages but to say the Croker factor v KERRY is absurd.
Quote from: ashman on September 22, 2015, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
Ah ffs : we all know dublin have advantages but to say the Croker factor v KERRY is absurd.
Why?
Quote from: johnpower on September 22, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
just wondering what's the view on relative merits of both teams?
Tyrone were easily the better team. Kerry and Armagh in that period were also better than this Dublin team. The standard of footballers at the moment is as low as its been in quite a while. None of Dublin's 3 wins produced a high quality game. Only a handful of the current Dublin team would have been good enough to get on either of the Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry teams of 2005
That's not even close to being true.
Tyrone could have played super football in the rain and sun.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 22, 2015, 10:30:04 PM
You can't call some of the Ulster championship games a high standard. They can be intense and tight but quite often the standard of football is utterly abject
There is a difference between a Ulster championship with some bad games and a Leinster championship only composed of bad games.
QuoteI have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
Perhaps, perhaps not. But if Dublin weren't playing all their games at home they might not be in the All Ireland final.
Tyrone won 3 in 6 years, Kerry 5 in 8/9 yr period. By the time this Team finished they win 6/7 and will probably be better than either team of the previous decade.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
You left out Brian McGuigan and Jordan.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 22, 2015, 11:04:52 PM
Tyrone won 3 in 6 years, Kerry 5 in 8/9 yr period. By the time this Team finished they win 6/7 and will probably be better than either team of the previous decade.
Jez, you are running away with yourself. Take a deep breath. I know the adrenaline is still flowing from Sunday. Nothing is sure!
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
So no Phillip Jordan, your having a laugh.
Quote from: ONeill on September 22, 2015, 11:08:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
You left out Brian McGuigan and Jordan.
There are 15 players on a team, not 17.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
Quote from: Rodman on September 22, 2015, 11:08:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
So no Phillip Jordan, your having a laugh.
Plus, you made a typo on the no.4, should be a J, not a P.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:10:36 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 22, 2015, 11:08:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
You left out Brian McGuigan and Jordan.
There are 15 players on a team, not 17.
McCaffrey would have to turn in 8 seasons like this year and he might compare. Watch the 05 final again. McGuigan was majestic - comparable to Cooper against Mayo.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Stick to the darts, Sid!
Being really mischievous : who were more blaggarded kerry in 2011 or Tyrone in 1995.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
No that i care but i have Mcguigan, Jordan, maybe J McMahon on there
Quote from: ONeill on September 22, 2015, 11:13:27 PM
McCaffrey would have to turn in 8 seasons like this year and he might compare. Watch the 05 final again. McGuigan was majestic - comparable to Cooper against Mayo.
By your own logic, then, Alan Brogan would comfortably beat McGuigan. McGuigan had maybe 3/4 good seasons, and it was only really 2005 that he had a great season. Brogan carried poor Dublin teams on his back for years and now has his reward for it.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.[/b]
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
O'Carroll isn't even the current best full back in his province
is your criteria based on future achievements?
Likewise, with your entire posts to date.
I like A. Brogan TBF and Conor Gormley is a big tough fella. I'd be crying off as well after a few minutes against him, but then Im not in consideration for this XV
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/6903882
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
This is more a reflection of the quality of players performances in the respective eras than of Jordan. McCafferys displays this year wouldn't have gotten him within an asses roar of the likes of Stevie O'Neill, Thomas O'Se, Sean Cavanagh etc in the years they won POTY. Have a look at the 05 and 08 finals and tell me Jordan's performance those days were inferior to what Jack produced this year.
Plus, if we are going on potential (like you are with Jack) then Cormac McAnallen was a more talented full back than O'Connell and also a better midfielder than MDmcA.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
O'Carroll isn't even the current best full back in his province
;D
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
is your criteria based on future achievements?
Current achievements, mate.
Player of the Year awards: McCaffrey 1 Jordan 0.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
Likewise, with your entire posts to date.
I like A. Brogan TBF and Conor Gormley is a big tough fella. I'd be crying off as well after a few minutes against him, but then Im not in consideration for this XV
Tyrone would know all about crying off against big tough opponents, now. Was it three of them cried off in 1996? I seem to remember Peter Canavan crying off in 2003 when faced with Seamus Moynihan too.
McCaffrey won player of the year?
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment
which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
Rory Carroll is the most admirable footballer in the country. He can get away with persistent fouling because he smiles away and has no snarl.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
Well, in the NFL Dublin played 5 games at home and lost none. They played 4 away and lost 2.
Quote from: ONeill on September 23, 2015, 12:34:33 AM
Well, in the NFL Dublin played 5 games at home and lost none. They played 4 away and lost 2.
Lies, damn lies and statistics. In the 2015 League Dublin beat Managhan by 11 points in Clones and by 1 point in Croke Park. Discuss.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
Quote from: ashman on September 22, 2015, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
How does that prove Tyrone were better ???
None of the factors you listed lessen dublin as a team and they can not be used in comparing both teams. It is hard to say but I think dublin due to their phenomenal pace and power. Tyrone might have had some better footbAllers and dublin have no one in the class of Sean Cavanagh in 2008.
Prove? This is not maths or physics. It's sport. There is no proof. There isn't even a theory. It's just opinion and ultimately a waste of time. It's a silly but distracting exercise. Like comparing Louis to Ali. Or Coppi to Merckx. Federer/Djokovic/ Nadal to Sampras, Fangio and Senna. Ring and Mackey. Mick O Connell and Jacko. Canavan and Cooper. Serena and Graf. Nicklaus and Tiger. Pelé and Maradonna, Messi and Ronaldo. It's just opinion and most opinion is biased.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 22, 2015, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Tyrone beat a lot of crap teams too and struggled to beat teams this Dublin team would have blown out of the water.
You can't call some of the Ulster championship games a high standard. They can be intense and tight but quite often the standard of football is utterly abject
True but ........ Dublin would be playing those teams in cabbage patches and not in the wide open spaces they are used to. They would have to do so from May onwards as well. Ulster games may be intense and tight and the standard might be abject but Leinster football is just abject and don't have intensity or tightness. Not blaming Dublin for that. It's ridiculous Meath in particular have fallen away so bad. Offaly haven t the population.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
You're havin a laugh. Jordan for a start. McGuigan one of the great 11s. Up there with Thomkins and Greg Blaney since Purcell's time. Lets be realistic here. Justin McMahon (or Joe) better full back - in fact both in there. I d have Enda McGinley before another Tyrone man in there actually.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
O'Carroll isn't even the current best full back in his province
;D
::) You probably dont even know another FB in Leinster
Quote
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
is your criteria based on future achievements?
Current achievements, mate.
Player of the Year awards: McCaffrey 1 0 Jordan 0.
Fixed that for ye, maybe you'll reconsider that now based on facts?
Quote
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:25:37 PM
Likewise, with your entire posts to date.
I like A. Brogan TBF and Conor Gormley is a big tough fella. I'd be crying off as well after a few minutes against him, but then Im not in consideration for this XV
Tyrone would know all about crying off against big tough opponents, now. Was it three of them cried off in 1996? I seem to remember Peter Canavan crying off in 2003 when faced with Seamus Moynihan too.
No one actually cried off in 96, just rather naively took a kicking, not sure of the relevance of 96 with Alan Brogan anyway?.
And you do realise there is a difference in getting an injury (which helped PTG miss a healthy chunk of the final?) and being shit scared?
No mc anallan?
Why use Utd in a Dublin argument anyway? A London based club would be better surely...
I think taking the Dubs out of Croke Park would provide a badly needed lift to the Leinster Championship. Imagine the Dubs having to play in Navan in June or indeed Wicklow but only if the draw comes out this way. Yes it would not provide the same amount of income as Croke Park but these smaller provincial towns would receive a real financial lift. I think for the benefit of the Leinster Championship it should be given serious consideration. Some Dubs might actually agree with it?
QuoteImagine the Dubs having to play in Navan in June
Pairc Tailteann is a kip and isn't fit to host a junior championship match never mind a Senior Inter county game
The real question is imagine you pumped 4 million a year into that tyrone team what would they be like!
Stupid topic just set up to rise an argument whilst the Dubs are on a high a liable to say a few over the top statements!
Well done the dubs and all this philly mc mahon crap should be put to bed, games over, get ready for next year and go at them!
If Dublin win the AI next year, will it be time to start comparing them to the Kerry team of the noughties??
Haven't read the whole thread as I'm not sure about it!
BUT
It would be some game if you put those two teams up against each other!
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Is this not the rationale Galway had for *not* winning All Irelands in the hurling?
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
So many other factors involved you dope! Love posters to embarrassed even to state where they are from with these expert opinions.
As Is aid stupid topic, allows idiots to say stupid things
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
What I am saying is that the red herring of the so-called "home advantage" has no bearing on the success of this very talented Dublin team. They would be equally successful no matter where they played.
The great Dublin team of the 70s won six Leinster titles in a row and reached six All Ireland finals (winning three of them) while playing most of their Leinster games outside Dublin. I have no doubt that today's team would be equally successful if the same conditions applied.
Now that Dublin are once again AI champions I expect this rubbish argument to ignite every month or so - however I'm a little disappointed that the team and their supporters haven't been allowed to finish their victory celebrations before it has started again.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
What I am saying is that the red herring of the so-called "home advantage" has no bearing on the success of this very talented Dublin team. They would be equally successful no matter where they played.
The great Dublin team of the 70s won six Leinster titles in a row and reached six All Ireland finals (winning three of them) while playing most of their Leinster games outside Dublin. I have no doubt that today's team would be equally successful if the same conditions applied.
Now that Dublin are once again AI champions I expect this rubbish argument to ignite every month or so - however I'm a little disappointed that the team and their supporters haven't been allowed to finish their victory celebrations before it has started again.
I agree with you that Dublin are worthy champions. I wanted them to win the AI once they beat Mayo. But, I ask you again, Would you say Dublin hold an advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? A Yes - No answer will suffice.
Quote from: redhandefender on September 23, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
So many other factors involved you dope! Love posters to embarrassed even to state where they are from with these expert opinions.
As Is aid stupid topic, allows idiots to say stupid things
"You dope"
This is great. Tyrone people are fierce easy to wind up with facts.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 01:18:54 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
What I am saying is that the red herring of the so-called "home advantage" has no bearing on the success of this very talented Dublin team. They would be equally successful no matter where they played.
The great Dublin team of the 70s won six Leinster titles in a row and reached six All Ireland finals (winning three of them) while playing most of their Leinster games outside Dublin. I have no doubt that today's team would be equally successful if the same conditions applied.
Now that Dublin are once again AI champions I expect this rubbish argument to ignite every month or so - however I'm a little disappointed that the team and their supporters haven't been allowed to finish their victory celebrations before it has started again.
I agree with you that Dublin are worthy champions. I wanted them to win the AI once they beat Mayo. But, I ask you again, Would you say Dublin hold an advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? A Yes - No answer will suffice.
My answer to your direct question is No.
Indeed, I believe if the present Dublin team played more of its games outside Croker they would be even stronger - just like the team of the 70s.
When Dublin football is weak the Croke Park "advantage" doesn't seem to help. In the not too distant past Dublin have been beaten by the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Meath, Armagh and Kildare in Croker (not to mention hammerings by Kerry and Tyrone) and inevitably this will happen again.
You pays your money and you takes your choice on this matter and I guess that opinions will remain irreconcilable.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 01:56:49 PM
Quote from: redhandefender on September 23, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
So many other factors involved you dope! Love posters to embarrassed even to state where they are from with these expert opinions.
As Is aid stupid topic, allows idiots to say stupid things
"You dope"
This is great. Tyrone people are fierce easy to wind up with facts.
Nearly as great as yourself for making up facts
McCaffery POTY ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
I have only seen the title of this thread so am commenting on that only.
Comparing Tyrone 03-08 to the current Dublin team is a nonsense. Dublin are miles ahead on every level. Tyrone were well organised and pushed the boundaries but also had a few special players, Canavan, Dooher, Jordan, but Dublin have 12 or 13 special players and have brought the game to a new level.
IMO if the current Dublin team played the best of Tyrone 03-08 Dublin would win by 10 points. There is no real comparison, the current Dublin crop are arguably the best group of players ever representing a county, in any era!
Tyrone are no better than Kerry or Armagh from similar years. Dublin would beat the pick of the lot of them.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
No actually you are delusional, what was the follow up on that injury? did he miss club games?
Listen I actually thought nothing off it at the time, but was talking to Dubs after the match and thats what they reckoned, I had a look at the whole thing again and sure enough there was nothing to it, he never pulled up, limped off, nothing.
Also 08 Gormley still had pace and agility and was considered the best man marker in the country at that time. Its no slight to come off 2nd best, but to cry off like he did? Well thats a different story.
He roasted Gormley somewhat in 2011 so he somewhat redeemed himself IMO but Gormley was fairly well spent (certainly no comparison to his 08 version) and the younger lads (Brogan and Connolly mainly) had already done the damage that day.
But that's the thing, tge resurgence in his career coincides with this current crop of players, he has reinvented himself as well to an extent but he is mostly piggy backing on their talent, fair play.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 01:18:54 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
What I am saying is that the red herring of the so-called "home advantage" has no bearing on the success of this very talented Dublin team. They would be equally successful no matter where they played.
The great Dublin team of the 70s won six Leinster titles in a row and reached six All Ireland finals (winning three of them) while playing most of their Leinster games outside Dublin. I have no doubt that today's team would be equally successful if the same conditions applied.
Now that Dublin are once again AI champions I expect this rubbish argument to ignite every month or so - however I'm a little disappointed that the team and their supporters haven't been allowed to finish their victory celebrations before it has started again.
I agree with you that Dublin are worthy champions. I wanted them to win the AI once they beat Mayo. But, I ask you again, Would you say Dublin hold an advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? A Yes - No answer will suffice.
My answer to your direct question is No.
Indeed, I believe if the present Dublin team played more of its games outside Croker they would be even stronger - just like the team of the 70s.
When Dublin football is weak the Croke Park "advantage" doesn't seem to help. In the not too distant past Dublin have been beaten by the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Meath, Armagh and Kildare in Croker (not to mention hammerings by Kerry and Tyrone) and inevitably this will happen again.
You pays your money and you takes your choice on this matter and I guess that opinions will remain irreconcilable.
It's not our money that keeps the Dubs in Croker. It's the Dubs fans money. Look, I'm not really trying to devalue Dublins Achievements, it's just the power that ye possess in the game is scary! Everything seems to be on Dublins terms when it comes to the Business side of the GAA season. If you can't see that well and good! But I'm not blind to this. Home fixtures are home fixtures no matter how you try to gross over it. In any sport home fixtures hold weight, look at where most teams in the premiership get most points - at home! There will come a time where the chasing crowd (hopefully) catch up with Dublin, then you won't have the
well we would have beaten you no matter where we played line you presently have, which is an understandable argument at present. Listen enjoy the week.Everyone knows ye are the best team in the country. We'll get back to this argument at a more appropriate time.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 01:56:49 PM
Quote from: redhandefender on September 23, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
So many other factors involved you dope! Love posters to embarrassed even to state where they are from with these expert opinions.
As Is aid stupid topic, allows idiots to say stupid things
"You dope"
This is great. Tyrone people are fierce easy to wind up with facts.
Nearly as great as yourself for making up facts
McCaffery POTY ;D ;D ;D ;D
He said was named Sunday game player of the year
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 07:18:38 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 01:18:54 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 23, 2015, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 23, 2015, 12:26:26 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 11:17:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:54:20 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on September 22, 2015, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 22, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: moysider on September 22, 2015, 09:58:21 PM
Tyrone for me. Tyrone had opposition from May - Sept.
Because the standard in Leinster is so abject for years now Dublin can bank on being in semi every year. This year they only got 2 decent games to win Sam - the 2 semi-finals v Mayo. The CP factor will always taint Dublin's achievements.
Croke Park factor is such a crazy advantage!
Dublins Games in Croker this year
Dublin Donegal
Dublin Tyrone
Dublin Derry
Dublin Monaghan
Dublin Cork
Dublin Longford
Dublin Kildare
Dublin Westmeath
Dublin Fermanagh
Dublin Mayo
Dublin Mayo
Kerrys games in Croker
Kerry Kildare
Kerry Tyrone
I have absolutely no doubt that this Dublin would beat Mayo in an AI Final no matter where the game were to be played.
I have no doubt either! The problem is Dublin get home advantage for all their important games! ALL!
Your list is disingenuous. As you know, league games are a combination of home and away games so your inclusion of league games is misleading (remember Dublin travelled to Castlebar this year and you know the result).
In the case of Leinster championship games, which of your listed games would Dublin have lost if they were played outside Croke Park?
God man! You played NO games away from home when the League became knockout! You played NO games away from home in the championship. You might have played teams you would have beaten away from home in the Leinster Championship, But you were still getting games in a ground you call home (for your league campaign) and getting more used to playing on it!
As for the Mayo example of beating (hammering) us in the league. If you are going to use that analogy then how did ye get on away from home against Kerry (or even Cork)?
Can you imagine if Man Utd had all Cup finals, semi finals and Quarter finals played in Old Trafford? All Champions league games played there! Would you say they held no advantage?
Check mate!
What's your point - that this Dublin team would not be as successful as they are if they had to play outside Croke Park?
I ask you again, Would you say they held no advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? If you ignore the question again, I'll take it you agree and want to avoid answering?
What I am saying is that the red herring of the so-called "home advantage" has no bearing on the success of this very talented Dublin team. They would be equally successful no matter where they played.
The great Dublin team of the 70s won six Leinster titles in a row and reached six All Ireland finals (winning three of them) while playing most of their Leinster games outside Dublin. I have no doubt that today's team would be equally successful if the same conditions applied.
Now that Dublin are once again AI champions I expect this rubbish argument to ignite every month or so - however I'm a little disappointed that the team and their supporters haven't been allowed to finish their victory celebrations before it has started again.
I agree with you that Dublin are worthy champions. I wanted them to win the AI once they beat Mayo. But, I ask you again, Would you say Dublin hold an advantage playing all their knock out games in Croker? A Yes - No answer will suffice.
My answer to your direct question is No.
Indeed, I believe if the present Dublin team played more of its games outside Croker they would be even stronger - just like the team of the 70s.
When Dublin football is weak the Croke Park "advantage" doesn't seem to help. In the not too distant past Dublin have been beaten by the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Meath, Armagh and Kildare in Croker (not to mention hammerings by Kerry and Tyrone) and inevitably this will happen again.
You pays your money and you takes your choice on this matter and I guess that opinions will remain irreconcilable.
It's not our money that keeps the Dubs in Croker. It's the Dubs fans money. Look, I'm not really trying to devalue Dublins Achievements, it's just the power that ye possess in the game is scary! Everything seems to be on Dublins terms when it comes to the Business side of the GAA season. If you can't see that well and good! But I'm not blind to this. Home fixtures are home fixtures no matter how you try to gross over it. In any sport home fixtures hold weight, look at where most teams in the premiership get most points - at home! There will come a time where the chasing crowd (hopefully) catch up with Dublin, then you won't have the well we would have beaten you no matter where we played line you presently have, which is an understandable argument at present. Listen enjoy the week.Everyone knows ye are the best team in the country. We'll get back to this argument at a more appropriate time.
;)
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Jebus!
With McMenamin, McMahon and Gormley, there would be casualties before the team even left the dressing room. Half of them forwards wouldn't live beyond spring training.
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 23, 2015, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 01:56:49 PM
Quote from: redhandefender on September 23, 2015, 11:17:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 11:02:28 AM
Tyrone lost to poor Mayo, Derry, Laois, Meath and Down teams, and took two goes to beat a poor Cavan team. That doesn't sound like greatness to me.
Dublin would have put all of those teams away by at least 15 points.
So many other factors involved you dope! Love posters to embarrassed even to state where they are from with these expert opinions.
As Is aid stupid topic, allows idiots to say stupid things
"You dope"
This is great. Tyrone people are fierce easy to wind up with facts.
Nearly as great as yourself for making up facts
McCaffery POTY ;D ;D ;D ;D
He said was named Sunday game player of the year
Well if thats the case, ye may tell them boys who are discussing who its gonna be, on the POTY thread, that it has already been decided.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 06:07:20 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
No actually you are delusional, what was the follow up on that injury? did he miss club games?
Listen I actually thought nothing off it at the time, but was talking to Dubs after the match and thats what they reckoned, I had a look at the whole thing again and sure enough there was nothing to it, he never pulled up, limped off, nothing.
Also 08 Gormley still had pace and agility and was considered the best man marker in the country at that time. Its no slight to come off 2nd best, but to cry off like he did? Well thats a different story.
He roasted Gormley somewhat in 2011 so he somewhat redeemed himself IMO but Gormley was fairly well spent (certainly no comparison to his 08 version) and the younger lads (Brogan and Connolly mainly) had already done the damage that day.
But that's the thing, tge resurgence in his career coincides with this current crop of players, he has reinvented himself as well to an extent but he is mostly piggy backing on their talent, fair play.
Alan was far far superior to Brian. Brian had a lot of help from a very good team. Alan didn't get that till 2010. Mc Guigan was a very good old style centre forward but teams like Armagh had his number.
On a composite team I'd have Joe Mc Mahon for his versatility, Jordan, O Neill, Dooher, Cavanagh and Canavan
Cluxton
Cian O sullivan
Rory O Carroll
Johnny Cooper
Mc Carthy
Joe Mc Mahon
Philip Jordan
Cavanagh
MDMA
Dooher
Connolly
Flynn
Alan Brogan
O Neill
Canavan
No toerags allowed so Mc Mahon and Ricey miss out
I have my standards. There is nobody beating the above team any day of the week.
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
....And that Jack McCaffery is POTY ;)
Quote from: INDIANA on September 23, 2015, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 06:07:20 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
No actually you are delusional, what was the follow up on that injury? did he miss club games?
Listen I actually thought nothing off it at the time, but was talking to Dubs after the match and thats what they reckoned, I had a look at the whole thing again and sure enough there was nothing to it, he never pulled up, limped off, nothing.
Also 08 Gormley still had pace and agility and was considered the best man marker in the country at that time. Its no slight to come off 2nd best, but to cry off like he did? Well thats a different story.
He roasted Gormley somewhat in 2011 so he somewhat redeemed himself IMO but Gormley was fairly well spent (certainly no comparison to his 08 version) and the younger lads (Brogan and Connolly mainly) had already done the damage that day.
But that's the thing, tge resurgence in his career coincides with this current crop of players, he has reinvented himself as well to an extent but he is mostly piggy backing on their talent, fair play.
Alan was far far superior to Brian. Brian had a lot of help from a very good team. Alan didn't get that till 2010. Mc Guigan was a very good old style centre forward but teams like Armagh had his number.
On a composite team I'd have Joe Mc Mahon for his versatility, Jordan, O Neill, Dooher, Cavanagh and Canavan
Cluxton
Cian O sullivan
Rory O Carroll
Johnny Cooper
Mc Carthy
Joe Mc Mahon
Philip Jordan
Cavanagh
MDMA
Dooher
Connolly
Flynn
Alan Brogan
O Neill
Canavan
No toerags allowed so Mc Mahon and Ricey miss out
I have my standards. There is nobody beating the above team any day of the week.
Cooper, Not a chance, shouldn't even be on the Dublin team as Fitzsimons is better. This Dublin team are a great bunch of athletes, Tyrone were a great bunch of footballers. No comparison in my opinion.
Quote from: Rodman on September 23, 2015, 09:33:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 23, 2015, 09:06:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 06:07:20 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
What do you mean by this? Brogan went off with a hamstring injury after a few minutes. Are you suggesting he feigned the injury?
McGuigan was arguably as talented as Brogan but through no fault of his own only had a couple of really good years. This year was Alan Brogans 13th year playing County Football and he was close to being Dublins top player in about 10 of them. Therefore I'd have him ahead of Brian.
Hamstring ::) Right
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
No actually you are delusional, what was the follow up on that injury? did he miss club games?
Listen I actually thought nothing off it at the time, but was talking to Dubs after the match and thats what they reckoned, I had a look at the whole thing again and sure enough there was nothing to it, he never pulled up, limped off, nothing.
Also 08 Gormley still had pace and agility and was considered the best man marker in the country at that time. Its no slight to come off 2nd best, but to cry off like he did? Well thats a different story.
He roasted Gormley somewhat in 2011 so he somewhat redeemed himself IMO but Gormley was fairly well spent (certainly no comparison to his 08 version) and the younger lads (Brogan and Connolly mainly) had already done the damage that day.
But that's the thing, tge resurgence in his career coincides with this current crop of players, he has reinvented himself as well to an extent but he is mostly piggy backing on their talent, fair play.
Alan was far far superior to Brian. Brian had a lot of help from a very good team. Alan didn't get that till 2010. Mc Guigan was a very good old style centre forward but teams like Armagh had his number.
On a composite team I'd have Joe Mc Mahon for his versatility, Jordan, O Neill, Dooher, Cavanagh and Canavan
Cluxton
Cian O sullivan
Rory O Carroll
Johnny Cooper
Mc Carthy
Joe Mc Mahon
Philip Jordan
Cavanagh
MDMA
Dooher
Connolly
Flynn
Alan Brogan
O Neill
Canavan
No toerags allowed so Mc Mahon and Ricey miss out
I have my standards. There is nobody beating the above team any day of the week.
Cooper, Not a chance, shouldn't even be on the Dublin team as Fitzsimons is better. This Dublin team are a great bunch of athletes, Tyrone were a great bunch of footballers. No comparison in my opinion.
At least Steven O'Neill has made Indiana's team. It must have been his performance in the rain against the Dubs in 2008 that swung it for him. ;D
Indie
The best teams brought the best outta McGuigan actually because that's where the space was tightest. He had manys a good day against Armagh as he had McGeeney's no.
Brogan on the other hand romped around against the crap teams and went missing (or cried off) against the good ones.
Your FB line is hilarious BTW, dont even think any of them would make my no.2 FB line.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 09:20:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
....And that Jack McCaffery is POTY ;)
You really are slow aren't you? He didn't say McCarthy was player of the year. He said that the Sunday game named said he was their player of the year. But sure don't let the truth get in the way if your slagging people off
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 10:05:22 PM
Indie
The best teams brought the best outta McGuigan actually because that's where the space was tightest. He had manys a good day against Armagh as he had McGeeney's no.
Brogan on the other hand romped around against the crap teams and went missing (or cried off) against the good ones.
Your FB line is hilarious BTW, dont even think any of them would make my no.2 FB line.
I pick footballers not toerags so that elimantes Ricey. Gormley wasn't even a good toerag so he misses out as well.
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 23, 2015, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 09:20:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
....And that Jack McCaffery is POTY ;)
You really are slow aren't you? He didn't say McCarthy was player of the year. He said that the Sunday game named said he was their player of the year. But sure don't let the truth get in the way if your slagging people off
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
Player of the Year awards: McCaffrey 1 Jordan 0.
Here's a wee tip, if you are gonna get embroiled in other people's arguments get YOUR facts straight b4 you start with the personal insults
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 23, 2015, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 09:20:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
....And that Jack McCaffery is POTY ;)
You really are slow aren't you? He didn't say McCarthy was player of the year. He said that the Sunday game named said he was their player of the year. But sure don't let the truth get in the way if your slagging people off
Quote from: sid waddell link=topic=26274.msg1517287#msg1517287
Player of the Year awards: McCaffrey 1 Jordan 0.
Here's a wee tip, if you are gonna get embroiled in other people's arguments get YOUR facts straight b4 you start with the personal insults
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/david-brent.gif?w=615&h=342)
1. Pascal McConnell - Cluxton loses the head too often and McConnell's a better shot-stopper. If Cluxton was taller I'd change my mind though.
2. Ryan McMenamin
3. Cormac McAnallen
4. Cian O'Sullivan
5. James McCarthy
6. Conor Gormley
7. Philip Jordan
8. Enda McGinley
9. Sean Cavanagh
10. Brian Dooher
11. Brian McGuigan
12. Paul Flynn
13. Bernard Brogan
14. Peter Canavan
15. Stephen O'Neill
Current Dublin crop might still beat the Tyrone's noughties team due to advances in S&C, who the hell knows. I mean Brian McGuigan hates vegetables.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 11:30:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 23, 2015, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 23, 2015, 09:20:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 23, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on September 23, 2015, 05:26:10 PM
Your actually delusional if you think Brogan feigned injury.
He marked far harder and better defenders than Gormley over the years and never took a backward step. He's also still winning All Ireland medals while Gormley is nothing more than a distant memory with a touch of a lingering odour off it.
Let him at it, mate. He'll be telling us the moon landings were faked, the US Government was behind September 11th, and Dublin winning three All-Irelands is a GAA/CIA false flag operation next.
....And that Jack McCaffery is POTY ;)
You really are slow aren't you? He didn't say McCarthy was player of the year. He said that the Sunday game named said he was their player of the year. But sure don't let the truth get in the way if your slagging people off
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
Player of the Year awards: McCaffrey 1 Jordan 0.
Here's a wee tip, if you are gonna get embroiled in other people's arguments get YOUR facts straight b4 you start with the personal insults
Here's a wee tip for you. Have a look at the original post and see what he said regarding the player of the year, eh?
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
For omaghjoe
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:02:39 PM
A composite Dublin 2011-2015/Tyrone 2003-2008 team would probably look something like as follows:
1. Cluxton
2. McMenamin
3. O'Carroll
4. P. McMahon
5. McCarthy
6. Gormley
7. McCaffrey
8. McAuley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. A. Brogan
12. Connolly
13. Canavan
14. O'Neill
15. B. Brogan
9 Dublin 6 Tyrone
Dublin have it.
I like this team but I think Cian O'Sullivan has to be centre half back. Gormley has to be in and his best position was corner back. Its really 50/50 between mcmahon and mcmenamin for the othe corner back but I would go for mcmahon vecause he is stronger and has shown this year he is a good footballer. I also wouldnt have Alan Brogan at 11. Paul Flynn is a must so he comes in at 12 with Connolly at 11. Mcguigan misses out but connolly can do everything that mcguigan can but with the added bonus of being much more potent in the scoring stakes.
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 24, 2015, 06:51:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
For omaghjoe
Exactly, glad you can see what he was at now, he was trying to equate POTY to be the Sunday Game POTY (which it aint).
BTW, thanks for backing me up, I knew you would come around to see things sensibly when you had all the facts .
1. Cluxton
2. Ricey
3. McAnallen
4. Philly McMahon
5. Gormley
6. Joe McMahon
7. Jordan
8. McGinley
9. Cavanagh
10. Dooher
11. McGuigan
12. Connolly
13. A Brogan
14. O'Neill
15. Canavan
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 24, 2015, 08:04:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 24, 2015, 06:51:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
For omaghjoe
Exactly, glad you can see what he was at now, he was trying to equate POTY to be the Sunday Game POTY (which it aint).
BTW, thanks for backing me up, I knew you would come around to see things sensibly when you had all the facts .
8:04 - I see the creche is open early...
Stephen Cluxton
Conor Gormley
Rory O'Carroll
Ryan McMenamin/Philly McMahon - neither cover themselves in glory
Jack Mc'Caffrey
Joe McMahon/Cian O'Sullivan - tight between these two
Philip Jordan
Sean Cavanagh
Cormac McAnallen
Brian Dooher
Diarmuid Connolly ( Only just from Brian McGuigan - tough tough call)
Paul Flynn
Bernard Brogan
Peter Canavan
Stephen O'Neill
From a neutral point of view.
Cluxton
McMenamin
O'Carroll
P McMahon
McCaffrey
Gormley
Jordan
Cavanagh
McAuley
Dooher
McGuigan
Flynn
Connolly
Brogan
Canavan
- - -
The hardest done by is Steven O'Neill, but if I had to pick 6 from 7 a hundred times, it would be those 6 every single time. It's probably as perfect a forward line as you could devise. O'Neill, for all his many undoubted talents would not actually be an improvement in any given position on those six.
Joe McMahon and Ross O'Carroll is coin toss.
Goals isn't a difficult choice.
Corner backs are a lock, as is the entire half back line. Lenny's idea was just bizarre. Moving Gormley to make room for Cian O'Sullivan would be like playing Franz Beckenbauer at full back so that Per Mertesecker gets a game.
If you were actually picking a team to win a match against Kerry or Mayo, instead of pure ability, I'd imagine that MDMA would be dropped for Hub Hughes.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 09:23:38 AM
From a neutral point of view.
Cluxton
McMenamin
O'Carroll
P McMahon
McCaffrey
Gormley
Jordan
Cavanagh
McAuley
Dooher
McGuigan
Flynn
Connolly
Brogan
Canavan
- - -
The hardest done by is Steven O'Neill, but if I had to pick 6 from 7 a hundred times, it would be those 6 every single time. It's probably as perfect a forward line as you could devise. O'Neill, for all his many undoubted talents would not actually be an improvement in any given position on those six.
Joe McMahon and Ross O'Carroll is coin toss.
Goals isn't a difficult choice.
Corner backs are a lock, as is the entire half back line. Lenny's idea was just bizarre. Moving Gormley to make room for Cian O'Sullivan would be like playing Franz Beckenbauer at full back so that Per Mertesecker gets a game.
If you were actually picking a team to win a match against Kerry or Mayo, instead of pure ability, I'd imagine that MDMA would be dropped for Hub Hughes.
Well you did move Connolly to make room for Flynn.
I didn't. Flynn is the most natural wing-forward in the modern game.
Connolly played in the full-forward line in 2011, and in that team he'd be given a licence to roam wherever he liked.
But seeing as we are nit picking, just how often did Joe McMahon play Championship football in the half back line for Tyrone between 2003 and 2008?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 24, 2015, 08:04:16 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 24, 2015, 06:51:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 22, 2015, 11:16:54 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
Wud have both J McMahons ahead of O'Carrol
McCaffery ahead of Jordan ;D
Brogan ahead of McGuigan? 08 was the best year Brogan was ever having, the Tyrone match told me everything I needed to know about him on a pitch.
i) O'Carroll is comfortably the best full back of this century so far.
ii) McCaffrey has just been named Sunday Game POTY and will go on to become an all-time great. Jordan never came remotely close to being POTY.
iii) A comment which tells me everything I need to know about your football knowledge, ie, there isn't much of it.
For omaghjoe
Exactly, glad you can see what he was at now, he was trying to equate POTY to be the Sunday Game POTY (which it aint).
BTW, thanks for backing me up, I knew you would come around to see things sensibly when you had all the facts .
And you still fail to understand even when things are quite clearly pointed out to you, seems to be a common theme with you. Ah well, you can take a horse to water and all that.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 09:38:25 AM
I didn't. Flynn is the most natural wing-forward in the modern game.
Connolly played in the full-forward line in 2011, and in that team he'd be given a licence to roam wherever he liked.
But seeing as we are nit picking, just how often did Joe McMahon play Championship football in the half back line for Tyrone between 2003 and 2008?
Joe McMahon played wherever Tyrone needed him to play be it full back, corner back, wing back, centre back, midfield, half forward or full forward. For me his best position was at 6 we had Gormley there who was a master in that position and two very good attacking wing backs so we utilised McMahon's versatility to play wherever we had a weakness.
Connolly has played his best football since moving to the half forward line.
Flynn is the poor man's Enda McGinley.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 09:55:18 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 09:38:25 AM
I didn't. Flynn is the most natural wing-forward in the modern game.
Connolly played in the full-forward line in 2011, and in that team he'd be given a licence to roam wherever he liked.
But seeing as we are nit picking, just how often did Joe McMahon play Championship football in the half back line for Tyrone between 2003 and 2008?
Joe McMahon played wherever Tyrone needed him to play be it full back, corner back, wing back, centre back, midfield, half forward or full forward. For me his best position was at 6 we had Gormley there who was a master in that position and two very good attacking wing backs so we utilised McMahon's versatility to play wherever we had a weakness.
Connolly has played his best football since moving to the half forward line.
Flynn is the poor man's Enda McGinley.
Jesus Christ it didn't take long for this thread to descend into farce!!
Here lads it's a ridiculous question which matters to nobody and will only throw up each counties blinkers and cause stupid rows about players who were all good but can't really be compared as they haven't played against eachother. Can we lock the thread and move on at all?
My neutral amalgamation would be...
Cluxton
McMenamin
O'Carroll (I had to exclude Cormac, RIP, because we only, sadly, saw him for one year as a full back. )
McMahon
McCaffrey
Gormley
Jordan
Cavanagh
McCauley
Connolly
McGuigan
Dooher
O'Neill
Canavan
Brogan
The hardest call for me was Dooher over Flynn.
This is maybe the fourth or fifth thread over the past month where I've encountered Bomber Destro's player analysis.
A quick summary:
- If he played for Tyrone during the noughties, he is a demi God. No other group of players in the history of the game comes close in terms of talent and application. These ARE the all time greats.
- If he currently plays for Tyrone, he's the best player in Ireland in his position, and it's only a media conspiracy that prevents this being accepted as common knowledge.
- If he plays/played for anyone else except Kerry, it's just ambivalence.
- If he plays/played for Kerry, he is the most overrated player in the history of the game, and Kerry only win All Irelands because the media build them up as invincible and other counties (apart from Tyrone) fall into this trap.
It's comical.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 24, 2015, 10:06:49 AM
This is maybe the fourth or fifth thread over the past month where I've encountered Bomber Destro's player analysis.
A quick summary:
- If he played for Tyrone during the noughties, he is a demi God. No other group of players in the history of the game comes close in terms of talent and application. These ARE the all time greats.
- If he currently plays for Tyrone, he's the best player in Ireland in his position, and it's only a media conspiracy that prevents this being accepted as common knowledge.
- If he plays/played for anyone else except Kerry, it's just ambivalence.
- If he plays/played for Kerry, he is the most overrated player in the history of the game, and Kerry only win All Irelands because the media build them up as invincible and other counties (apart from Tyrone) fall into this trap.
It's comical.
Wrong again.
Unfair to compare the two teams. You shouldn't be trying to take away from the great team that Tyrone team were but even in the small space of time, its two different era's, the game has changed. The current Dublin team on fitness alone and the speed of which they play would beat that Tyrone team.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 10:05:41 AM
My neutral amalgamation would be...
Cluxton
McMenamin
O'Carroll (I had to exclude Cormac, RIP, because we only, sadly, saw him for one year as a full back. )
McMahon
McCaffrey
Gormley
Jordan
Cavanagh
McCauley
Connolly
McGuigan
Dooher
O'Neill
Canavan
Brogan
The hardest call for me was Dooher over Flynn.
Stick Flynn in no.12 and move Connolly CHF and its hard to argue with the rest of that side. Flynn has won 4 all stars in a row, how many other players on the side have won as many? McGuigan at his best would get onto the team but his best was for about 2 seasons and most of the rest of the time he was below par, injured or in and out of the side.
I just think McGuigan made that team tick in the forwards. He was an exceptional passer of the ball, and I love that sort of centre forward. Connolly has to be there, so it really came down to Dooher v Flynn, and it was very tight. Allstars won, especially in different eras, wouldn't be a big factor in my assessment. (Especially since the Brian Whelehan debacle)
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
This has probably been done earlier in the thread (apologies if it has) and my stats may not be quite 100% accurate.
Between 2003 and 2008, Tyrone played 40 championship matches, winning 27, drawing 6 and losing 7 - a win rate of 67.5%
Between 2011 and 2015, Dublin played 29 championship matches, winning 26, drawing 1 and losing 2 - a win rate of 89.6%
In the years where they won their All-Irelands -
Tyrone P 25 W 18 D 5 L 2 - a win rate of 72%
Dublin P 19 W 18 D 1 L 0 - a win rate of 94.7%
In the years where they didn't -
Tyrone P 15 W 9 D 1 L 5 - a win rate of 60%
Dublin P 10 W 8 D 0 L 2 - a win rate of 80%
The 2011-15 Dublin is clearly the better team.
Lies, damn lies and statistics. I don't like comparing teams from different eras, it's hard enough to compare players, but the standard of competition Tyrone face in racking up that percentage has to be far stiffer than what Dublin have faced in the last 5 years, provincially at least. And I say that as a Leinster man.
Both great teams, as were the Kerry team for most of the noughties.
Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on September 24, 2015, 01:56:37 PM
This has probably been done earlier in the thread (apologies if it has) and my stats may not be quite 100% accurate.
Between 2003 and 2008, Tyrone played 40 championship matches, winning 27, drawing 6 and losing 7 - a win rate of 67.5%
Between 2011 and 2015, Dublin played 29 championship matches, winning 26, drawing 1 and losing 2 - a win rate of 89.6%
In the years where they won their All-Irelands -
Tyrone P 25 W 18 D 5 L 2 - a win rate of 72%
Dublin P 19 W 18 D 1 L 0 - a win rate of 94.7%
In the years where they didn't -
Tyrone P 15 W 9 D 1 L 5 - a win rate of 60%
Dublin P 10 W 8 D 0 L 2 - a win rate of 80%
The 2011-15 Dublin is clearly the better team.
But these stats mean nothing, the same with the craic around a 'great' team being one who retains an All Ireland. You can't say that because a team wins more games than a team from a previous era that they are better, simply due to the fact that the standard of opposition is not the same at any given time. Nobody can sit and conclusively say that the standard of opposition from ten years ago is not as good as now, and vice versa.
P.S. - Brian Dooher was a better wing forward than Flynn.
The Dublin team from the Pillar Caffrey era probably has a better win percentage in the championship than that Tyrone team. Tyrone weren't the same after 2005. Their performances in the 2005 final and latter stages of the 2008 championship were as good as you'll get though.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
If was a Tyrone player you'd have him as the greatest footballer, rock start, actor and destroyer of worlds. To say he isn't the best wing forward on his own team is a nonsense comment. Connolly is the better footballer but Flynn is right up there as a player. The Barcelona players aren't all rubbish just because Messi is their best player.
No Leinster team had beaten Dublin in 2011-2015. Two beat Tyrone, Laois and Meath, both of whom had lost to Dublin earlier in the championship.
Only two teams have beaten Dublin, both at AI SEMI-final stage; Tyrone have lost seven times. Tyrone didn't score for an entire first half again Derry.
Dublin have performed consistently throughout their era - Tyrone didn't.
Having said that my merged team would contain more Tyrone men than Dubs. McMenamin, Gormley, Jordan, Cavanagh, Dooher, McGuigan, O'Neill and Canavan would all definitely start.
Tyrone better individuals, Dublin better team.
The fact that Flynn doesn't throw himself to the ground like a big jessie swings it for me. Superb player, though not anywhere near his best this year post operation
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 01:59:24 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics. I don't like comparing teams from different eras, it's hard enough to compare players, but the standard of competition Tyrone face in racking up that percentage has to be far stiffer than what Dublin have faced in the last 5 years, provincially at least. And I say that as a Leinster man.
Both great teams, as were the Kerry team for most of the noughties.
I disagree, tyrone had their golden era at a time when ulster was very weak and only Armagh provided decent opposition. Even then they had to rely on the back door to win 2 of their all Irelands. This Dublin team have won 3 at this stge and are likely to end up with at the very least 5 which will elevate them way above tyrone. It is for that reason that I would have at least 9 dubs in a composite team ie Cluxton, O'Carroll, McMahon, McCaffrey, O'Sullivan, McAuley, Flynn, Connolly and B Brogan. James McCarthy would only just lose out to Jordan,
Quote from: lenny on September 24, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 01:59:24 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics. I don't like comparing teams from different eras, it's hard enough to compare players, but the standard of competition Tyrone face in racking up that percentage has to be far stiffer than what Dublin have faced in the last 5 years, provincially at least. And I say that as a Leinster man.
Both great teams, as were the Kerry team for most of the noughties.
I disagree, tyrone had their golden era at a time when ulster was very weak and only Armagh provided decent opposition. Even then they had to rely on the back door to win 2 of their all Irelands. This Dublin team have won 3 at this stge and are likely to end up with at the very least 5 which will elevate them way above tyrone. It is for that reason that I would have at least 9 dubs in a composite team ie Cluxton, O'Carroll, McMahon, McCaffrey, O'Sullivan, McAuley, Flynn, Connolly and B Brogan. James McCarthy would only just lose out to Jordan,
McMenamin, Gormley, McAnallen, Jordan, Cavanagh, Dooher, McGuigan, a McMahon, O'Neill, McGinley, Mulligan and Canavan would all have very strong claims to get on a composite team to be honest.
As for Ulster being weak then, you had Cavan, Derry, Donegal and Tyrone in that period who all reached or won the league. Armagh and Donegal regularly featured in the latter stages of the championship also, as did Derry on occasion. How many Leinster teams are even competing in Division 1? A lot easier to sail through an easy province and peak for the right time.
I wouldn't be so sure about Dublin winning 5 All Irelands either, they are going to lose their two key men pretty soon (Brogan and Cluxton) and they have no obvious replacements for either. They are also not head and shoulders above the rest of the country and this team has been on the go for 5/6 years now so its also arguable that they are past their peak.
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
If was a Tyrone player you'd have him as the greatest footballer, rock start, actor and destroyer of worlds. To say he isn't the best wing forward on his own team is a nonsense comment. Connolly is the better footballer but Flynn is right up there as a player. The Barcelona players aren't all rubbish just because Messi is their best player.
I wouldn't. Flynn is not in the same league as Dooher, not as good as McGinley either.
Quote from: lenny on September 24, 2015, 03:12:39 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 24, 2015, 01:59:24 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics. I don't like comparing teams from different eras, it's hard enough to compare players, but the standard of competition Tyrone face in racking up that percentage has to be far stiffer than what Dublin have faced in the last 5 years, provincially at least. And I say that as a Leinster man.
Both great teams, as were the Kerry team for most of the noughties.
I disagree, tyrone had their golden era at a time when ulster was very weak and only Armagh provided decent opposition. Even then they had to rely on the back door to win 2 of their all Irelands. This Dublin team have won 3 at this stge and are likely to end up with at the very least 5 which will elevate them way above tyrone. It is for that reason that I would have at least 9 dubs in a composite team ie Cluxton, O'Carroll, McMahon, McCaffrey, O'Sullivan, McAuley, Flynn, Connolly and B Brogan. James McCarthy would only just lose out to Jordan,
I take it you're a bit dim as Fermanagh, Donegal and Derry competed in AI semi finals in the 03-08 period and Monaghan and Down had very decent teams around that time as well.
Without wading through the previous posts I'd say both teams on a par at the moment.
Think the 3d win for us this year is the bare minimum Dublin should have won with this once in a lifetime batch of players we have. Beating kerry three times the icing on the cake.
Quote from: Canalman on September 24, 2015, 11:51:26 PM
Without wading through the previous posts I'd say both teams on a par at the moment.
Think the 3d win for us this year is the bare minimum Dublin should have won with this once in a lifetime batch of players we have. Beating kerry three times the icing on the cake.
Dubs have a bit more style than Throne had. Beating Kerry of course goes with the 2.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 07:19:29 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
If was a Tyrone player you'd have him as the greatest footballer, rock start, actor and destroyer of worlds. To say he isn't the best wing forward on his own team is a nonsense comment. Connolly is the better footballer but Flynn is right up there as a player. The Barcelona players aren't all rubbish just because Messi is their best player.
I wouldn't. Flynn is not in the same league as Dooher, not as good as McGinley either.
You may not but your team shows how completely one eyed you are. Most neutrals would see Dublin as the better team simply because they will certainly end up with several more titles than tyrone. That said I would put dooher up alongside Flynn as among the best wing half forwards of the modern generation. They would both have to be part of a composite team. Gormley, Cavanagh, Dooher, Canavan and O'Neill would be the only tyrone definites. Jordan is a possible but probably about 50/50 with McCarthy. McCaffrey has to be on the team, he's probably the most destructive player from deep in the current era. I would have at least 9 Dubs in a composite team in recognition of the fact they have won 3 and will certainly win at least 2 or 3 more with the talent they have at the moment.
Quote from: lenny on September 25, 2015, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 07:19:29 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
If was a Tyrone player you'd have him as the greatest footballer, rock start, actor and destroyer of worlds. To say he isn't the best wing forward on his own team is a nonsense comment. Connolly is the better footballer but Flynn is right up there as a player. The Barcelona players aren't all rubbish just because Messi is their best player.
I wouldn't. Flynn is not in the same league as Dooher, not as good as McGinley either.
You may not but your team shows how completely one eyed you are. Most neutrals would see Dublin as the better team simply because they will certainly end up with several more titles than tyrone. That said I would put dooher up alongside Flynn as among the best wing half forwards of the modern generation. They would both have to be part of a composite team. Gormley, Cavanagh, Dooher, Canavan and O'Neill would be the only tyrone definites. Jordan is a possible but probably about 50/50 with McCarthy. McCaffrey has to be on the team, he's probably the most destructive player from deep in the current era. I would have at least 9 Dubs in a composite team in recognition of the fact they have won 3 and will certainly win at least 2 or 3 more with the talent they have at the moment.
Keegan is better attacking and defending than young Jack. I'd have him No. 2/3 at HB depending on how well Harte is playing. Doesn't suit CHB either, where as the other two can at least do a good job there.
Quote from: lenny on September 25, 2015, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 07:19:29 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 02:55:51 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 24, 2015, 01:53:32 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 24, 2015, 12:46:57 PM
Can't see how Flynn can be left out by anyone. He has a strong claim to be the best footballer in Ireland over the pact number of years and although not as classy a footballer as Connolly or Cooper etc. he is probably the prototype Gaelic footballer - good in the air & on the breaks, tremendous kick passer, good score taker, brilliant athlete and has put more men on their arse with a shoulder than most current footballers. A better wing forward than Galvin or Dooher IMO.
The fact you may actually believe that is risible.
Flynn isn't even the best wing forward on his team.
If was a Tyrone player you'd have him as the greatest footballer, rock start, actor and destroyer of worlds. To say he isn't the best wing forward on his own team is a nonsense comment. Connolly is the better footballer but Flynn is right up there as a player. The Barcelona players aren't all rubbish just because Messi is their best player.
I wouldn't. Flynn is not in the same league as Dooher, not as good as McGinley either.
You may not but your team shows how completely one eyed you are. Most neutrals would see Dublin as the better team simply because they will certainly end up with several more titles than tyrone. That said I would put dooher up alongside Flynn as among the best wing half forwards of the modern generation. They would both have to be part of a composite team. Gormley, Cavanagh, Dooher, Canavan and O'Neill would be the only tyrone definites. Jordan is a possible but probably about 50/50 with McCarthy. McCaffrey has to be on the team, he's probably the most destructive player from deep in the current era. I would have at least 9 Dubs in a composite team in recognition of the fact they have won 3 and will certainly win at least 2 or 3 more with the talent they have at the moment.
Since when has a Derry man become neutral about their better in every way more successful neighbours! You are as neutral as ballbag brolly!
Absolutely pointless thread. You can't compare the 2 counties given the change in culture, preparation and the finances and luxury that the current Dublin crop have compared to that tyrone team. Obviously far better prepared and massive advantage of correct amount of rest and preparation.
Also Dublin are expected to win, hold all the aces with the Gaa whereas Tyrone came from nowhere.
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
0 AIs b4 03
But All Ireland finalists before, regular enough contenders for Ulster and had enjoyed significant underage success in the years in and around 2003 - hardly nowhere.
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:34:59 PM
But All Ireland finalists before, regular enough contenders for Ulster and had enjoyed significant underage success in the years in and around 2003 - hardly nowhere.
Relative to Dublin tho they did come from nowhere. Dublin are perennial contenders
On the one hand it shouldn't count as a factor as its not actually on the pitch stuff we are talking about. On the other hand there is a huge psychological barrier to be overcome, which is significant, you only have to look at Mayo.
To be fair Dublin had their own psychological barriers to overcome. They had been beaten in Croke Park by the likes of Tyrone and Kerry in big games and hadn't won an All Ireland in over a decade. I'm not saying Dublin and Tyrone had the same journey but Dublin are winning All Irelands because they have got their house in order and have brilliant players. Tyrone were winning All Irelands when they had the same combination. They are still doing great work I'm sure but don't have (as) great players anymore.
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Tyrone had millions of pounds of sterling invested by the British Govt as well. They have as much access to finance as Dublin have.
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Tyrone came from nowhere. Just the recent success has masked where Tyrone were in the football landscape. Tyrones Ulster titles reads as follows 1956, 1957, 1973, 1984, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1996, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010. Experience and tradition carry huge advantages in GAA. It is really had to eat at the top table.
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 05:03:17 PM
To be fair Dublin had their own psychological barriers to overcome. They had been beaten in Croke Park by the likes of Tyrone and Kerry in big games and hadn't won an All Ireland in over a decade. I'm not saying Dublin and Tyrone had the same journey but Dublin are winning All Irelands because they have got their house in order and have brilliant players. Tyrone were winning All Irelands when they had the same combination. They are still doing great work I'm sure but don't have (as) great players anymore.
Yeah they had obstacles but they were nothing in comparison to Tyrone's barriers. Dublin are rarely out of contender status and almost never out of top 5 so they were not coming from the same place as Tyrone.
For me the question is whether or not you include this when comparing the teams. But since it says something about character I would include it. So I think Tyrone are superior in this area, but Dublin havent faced the same type of mental barriers so who is to say that they wouldnt have overcome them as well...?
Then again since we are comparing 2 different teams from 2 different eras the whole thing is subjective anyway. Its all down to opinion.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 25, 2015, 06:34:12 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Tyrone had millions of pounds of sterling invested by the British Govt as well. They have as much access to finance as Dublin have.
Plus the laundered supporters club money from the bag men and the centre of excellence.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 25, 2015, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Tyrone came from nowhere. Just the recent success has masked where Tyrone were in the football landscape. Tyrones Ulster titles reads as follows 1956, 1957, 1973, 1984, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1996, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010. Experience and tradition carry huge advantages in GAA. It is really had to eat at the top table.
A number of Ulster teams have a similar title distribution. Cavan were ridiculously dominant and had 38 titles by the late sixties (one since ). Donegal had none until 1972. Didn't even reach a final until 1963.
Quote from: J70 on September 25, 2015, 08:25:50 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 25, 2015, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 25, 2015, 04:11:36 PM
How did Tyrone come from nowhere? I find it odd that Dublin are deemed to have all these advantages when Tyrone, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal (to name a few) also have major advantages over the likes of Limerick, Clare, Carlow, Leitrim etc. It's the GAA way.
Tyrone came from nowhere. Just the recent success has masked where Tyrone were in the football landscape. Tyrones Ulster titles reads as follows 1956, 1957, 1973, 1984, 1986, 1989, 1995, 1996, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010. Experience and tradition carry huge advantages in GAA. It is really had to eat at the top table.
A number of Ulster teams have a similar title distribution. Cavan were ridiculously dominant and had 38 titles by the late sixties (one since ). Donegal had none until 1972. Didn't even reach a final until 1963.
Agreed on Donegal, 1972, 1974, 1983, 1990, 1992, 2011, 2012, 2014 hard to build up a Croke park tradition on that! Cavan were the kings of Ulster up to the late 60's and thing just collapsed after that.
Although Mayo have had moderate success of late. A lot of damage to Mayo football happened between 1955 and 1981 where we won only 2 Connacht titles. Two days in Croke Park in that period. Hard to imagine for present supporters.
2012 was Dublins first minor All Ireland title won since 1984
2003 was the only U-21 All Ireland Dublin had won however they have now won three U-21 All Irelands in the last six years.
2011 was not only Dublins first Senior All Ireland win but also their All Ireland final appearance since 1995. Three Senior All Irelands won now in the last five years with many more to come.
In fairness whatever the reason for it thats some turn around and how many here seen it coming in 2009?
Ah hell why forget about Kerry in the mix
1 Stephen Cluxton
2 Marc O`Se
3 Rory O`Carroll
4 Conor Gormley
5 Tomas O`Se
6 Joe McMahon
7 Philip Jordan
8 Dara O`Se
9 Sean Cavanagh
10 Paul Flynn
11 Dermot Connolly
12 Brian Dooher
13 Colin Cooper
14 Stephen O`Neill
15 Bernard Brogan
Theres a neutral point of view, some close calls with T O`Sullivan, M McCarthy, C O`Sullivan, D O`Sullivan, J McCarthy, B McGuigan, P Gavlin, K Donaghy, A Brogan (done over the past 5 yrs) P Canavan (Also done over the time period Tyrone were going well), now close the thread, its well worn thin
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:25:43 PM
Ah hell why forget about Kerry in the mix
1 Stephen Cluxton
2 Marc O`Se
3 Rory O`Carroll
4 Conor Gormley
5 Tomas O`Se
6 Joe McMahon
7 Philip Jordan
8 Dara O`Se
9 Sean Cavanagh
10 Paul Flynn
11 Dermot Connolly
12 Brian Dooher
13 Colin Cooper
14 Stephen O`Neill
15 Bernard Brogan
Theres a neutral point of view, some close calls with T O`Sullivan, M McCarthy, J McCarthy, B McGuigan, P Gavlin, K Donaghy, A Brogan (done over the past 5 yrs) P Canavan (Also done over the time period Tyrone were going well), now close the thread, its well worn thin
;D This made me laugh. Cheers, Weasel.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:25:43 PM
Ah hell why forget about Kerry in the mix
1 Stephen Cluxton
2 Marc O`Se
3 Rory O`Carroll
4 Conor Gormley
5 Tomas O`Se
6 Joe McMahon
7 Philip Jordan
8 Dara O`Se
9 Sean Cavanagh
10 Paul Flynn
11 Dermot Connolly
12 Brian Dooher
13 Colin Cooper
14 Stephen O`Neill
15 Bernard Brogan
Theres a neutral point of view, some close calls with T O`Sullivan, M McCarthy, J McCarthy, B McGuigan, P Gavlin, K Donaghy, A Brogan (done over the past 5 yrs) P Canavan (Also done over the time period Tyrone were going well), now close the thread, its well worn thin
The former Nottingham Forest and Middlesbrough centre half has done very well to get into that team at corner forward. Juninho could have done a job at 11, I think.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 25, 2015, 10:34:11 PM
2012 was Dublins first minor All Ireland title won since 1984
2003 was the only U-21 All Ireland Dublin had won however they have now won three U-21 All Irelands in the last six years.
2011 was not only Dublins first Senior All Ireland win but also their All Ireland final appearance since 1995. Three Senior All Irelands won now in the last five years with many more to come.
In fairness whatever the reason for it thats some turn around and how many here seen it coming in 2009?
Dublin had form in the 70's, 80's and the 90's. Titles all won in those decades. They had a base, a legacy. To say Dublin 2011 (no more than Kerry last year) where coming from nowhere is very short sighted. You really are short sighted if you think so.
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
Flesh that one out.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 26, 2015, 10:18:07 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 25, 2015, 10:34:11 PM
2012 was Dublins first minor All Ireland title won since 1984
2003 was the only U-21 All Ireland Dublin had won however they have now won three U-21 All Irelands in the last six years.
2011 was not only Dublins first Senior All Ireland win but also their All Ireland final appearance since 1995. Three Senior All Irelands won now in the last five years with many more to come.
In fairness whatever the reason for it thats some turn around and how many here seen it coming in 2009?
Dublin had form in the 70's, 80's and the 90's. Titles all won in those decades. They had a base, a legacy. To say Dublin 2011 (no more than Kerry last year) where coming from nowhere is very short sighted. You really are short sighted if you think so.
Bunker it is all relative - for instance Omagh Joe suggested that Tyrone had a bigger mental obstacle to overcome, given their lack of a legacy. I'd counter that Dublin's legacy was a huge thing to overcome for the current crop, certainly it was a massive albatross round the neck of the team in the noughties. Expectation can be as big a disadvantage as inexperience.
All subjective of course, but let's actually look at the Dubs performances since 2000 -
2001 - beaten by Meath in the Leinster Final, beaten by Kerry in AI QF after a replay - nowhere near Top 4 nationally
2002 - Leinster champions, beaten by Armagh in AI SF - Top 4 definitely
2003 - beaten by Laois in Leinster, beaten by Armagh in AI qualifers - nowhere near Top 4 nationally
2004 - beaten by Westmeath in Leinster, hammered by Kerry in AI QF - nowhere near Top 4 nationally
2005 - Leinster champions, beaten by Tyrone after a replay in AI QF - perhaps Top 6
2006 - Leinster champions, beaten by Mayo in AI SF - Top 4
2007 - Leinster champions, beaten by Kerry in AI SF - Top 4
2008 - Leinster champions, hammered by Tyrone in AI QF - nowhere near Top 4 nationally
2009 - Leinster champions, hammered by Kerry in AI QF - nowhere near Top 4 nationally
2010 - beaten by Meath in Leinster, beaten by Cork in AI SF - Top 4
For Dublin, it was a record of underachievement only surpassed by the late sixties, early seventies - bearing in mind we were relegated to Division 2 for a year as well in the middle of the decade - throw in 96 to 2000 when were beaten in Leinster every year, and for a county with all our supposed advantages and we were listing very badly. The turnaround in our fortunes has been amazing, and mentally i think it matches the achievements of Armagh and Tyrone in coming through.
IMHO, of course.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 26, 2015, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
Flesh that one out.
It's been fleshed out numerous times by me including links to sources - doesn't fit the agenda of 'fior gaels' around here though.
I'm too busy celebrating the start of a great dynasty, do your own homework.
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 26, 2015, 10:18:07 AM
Dublin had form in the 70's, 80's and the 90's. Titles all won in those decades. They had a base, a legacy. To say Dublin 2011 (no more than Kerry last year) where coming from nowhere is very short sighted. You really are short sighted if you think so.
Where did i say this? i was talking about the turnaround Dublin have made since 2009. For example no senior All Ireland final appearance for sixteen years and now have won three senior All Irelands in five years.
Kerry not the same as they had won the All Ireland in 2009 and reached the final in 2011.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 26, 2015, 05:44:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on September 26, 2015, 10:18:07 AM
Dublin had form in the 70's, 80's and the 90's. Titles all won in those decades. They had a base, a legacy. To say Dublin 2011 (no more than Kerry last year) where coming from nowhere is very short sighted. You really are short sighted if you think so.
Where did i say this? i was talking about the turnaround Dublin have made since 2009. For example no senior All Ireland final appearance for sixteen years and now have won three senior All Irelands in five years.
Kerry not the same as they had won the All Ireland in 2009 and reached the final in 2011.
Sorry, reading back i could see how my last post could sound aggressive and belittling. It was not meant to be. Just Dublin are always near the top the it's hard to describe them as coming from nowhere.
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
And the rest Indiana, sure how can we compete with that. At least the Dubs generate most of their own revenue.
Can't believe Brian McGuigan doesnt make every team - in my opinion he is the greatest 11 of all time. Far more important to Tyrone than B Dooher IMO.
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 26, 2015, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
Flesh that one out.
It's been fleshed out numerous times by me including links to sources - doesn't fit the agenda of 'fior gaels' around here though.
I'm too busy celebrating the start of a great dynasty, do your own homework.
I'll take your reluctance to do so as an admission that you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on September 26, 2015, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: heffo on September 26, 2015, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on September 25, 2015, 11:31:26 PM
A good point has been made here about funding, a large major of counties and especially clubs in the 6 counties has enjoyed lotto funding (It helped us build our football pitch and club house) where down south, they have never enjoyed the benefit of the same type of funding. I know a team in swords and a team in Gorey which basically had to self fund to build there facilities. You don't hear that side of the argument when bitching about Dublin's funding
I've mentioned it several times but it always brushed under the mat.
The Ulster council received £120m in funding from the British govt - puts Dublins primary school funding in the halfpenny place.
Flesh that one out.
It's been fleshed out numerous times by me including links to sources - doesn't fit the agenda of 'fior gaels' around here though.
I'm too busy celebrating the start of a great dynasty, do your own homework.
Yes £120m in funding for 9 Counties including funding of a number of Clubs' capital projects. . . Compared to what Dublin yes 1 County are getting ::) ::)
Yes Dublin are the best team in the Country and rightly so but let's not pretend they haven't a huge competitive advantage over other counties in terms of numbers, facilities, profile, sponsorship, support and add in the fact that they play all their matches on the same pitch it's pretty formidable.
I think any County that has won an All Ireland other than Dublin should be extra proud of the fact. Also it's a fairly damning indictment of the failure of Dublin that they've only won 4 All Ireland's in thirty odd years and went a whole 16 without one!!!
Quote from: WT4E on September 28, 2015, 11:10:29 AM
Can't believe Brian McGuigan doesnt make every team - in my opinion he is the greatest 11 of all time. Far more important to Tyrone than B Dooher IMO.
Flynn over Dooher.
McDonald over McGuigan as he had far less to work with. Imagine blondie picking passes to Canavan and O'Neill?
It looks as if I am picking on Tyrone but I'm not. Ricey gets the nod over Philly the terrible.
I'd rate McGuigan the most skilful player on that Tyrone side.
I see that in Ballinascreen's competition where you pick your best 15 since 2000,Peter Canavan has picked 2 Dubs,Cluxton and Connolly with only 1 Tyrone man,Brian McGuigan.
Oisin cConville has Cluxton and Connolly also but has 3 Tyrone men.McMenamin,Jordan and Canavan.
Well if God said it, then it is so