There is some thing rotten in the state of Denmark NI. An inflamatory statement from from the PNSI. It all sounds like someone saying we know (well we think) that a murder was santioned by the provisional IRA (well maybe but it sure looks like something they'd do). Is this a strom in a teacup or is the Sh%t going to hit the fan
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34013141
How many falls has it taken now? Stormont is full of shit, I'd rather the money be saved and given to improving this place instead of constant fecking bickering and money being wasted
Good oul "Political policing" ???
Denmark? Sure didn't Brian Boru send those boys packing in the year 1014.
I cannot believe the amount of wailing over this. Sure it is just a bunch of criminals getting even with each other. What does it matter that their CV has paramilitary experience?
Hard to know. . . you can be fairly certain the murder came from the IRA though!! (Sorry Ex-IRA)
McGuinness has come out strongly condemning those involved in both murders so that Sinn Fein can distance themselves from it (not going down well around these parts, as someone said "You wouldn't see Gerry Kelly condemning the IRA).
Will it be enough? I think it might be. Let's be honest nobody wants things back the way they were and the politicians have too much at stake to let it slip.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 21, 2015, 10:57:05 AM
Good oul "Political policing" ???
If the allegations are not true and have been made up by PSNI then it certainly would be "political policing". Otherwise its just "policing" really.
The ramifications of this extend to the south. The allegations is the IRA exist and have ordered a murder and that they are involved in a "joint enterprise" with the dissadents. If this is true or at least is not categorically disproven then SF are toxic in terms of coalition partners in the south. It would have to harm their vote also.
In the north the consequences are catastrophic but that is not to say that anything other that a full criminal inquiry is what is required here
Quote from: screenexile on August 21, 2015, 11:42:25 AM
Hard to know. . . you can be fairly certain the murder came from the IRA though!! (Sorry Ex-IRA)
McGuinness has come out strongly condemning those involved in both murders so that Sinn Fein can distance themselves from it (not going down well around these parts, as someone said "You wouldn't see Gerry Kelly condemning the IRA).
Will it be enough? I think it might be. Let's be honest nobody wants things back the way they were and the politicians have too much at stake to let it slip.
Could it not be argued that MMcG is trying to lead rather than run with the pack? Is that not what we'd like to see from leaders? We complain constantly on here that unionist politicians simply ape their electorate rather than lead them with new ways of thinking.
Quote from: theskull1 on August 21, 2015, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 21, 2015, 11:42:25 AM
Hard to know. . . you can be fairly certain the murder came from the IRA though!! (Sorry Ex-IRA)
McGuinness has come out strongly condemning those involved in both murders so that Sinn Fein can distance themselves from it (not going down well around these parts, as someone said "You wouldn't see Gerry Kelly condemning the IRA).
Will it be enough? I think it might be. Let's be honest nobody wants things back the way they were and the politicians have too much at stake to let it slip.
Could it not be argued that MMcG is trying to lead rather than run with the pack? Is that not what we'd like to see from leaders? We complain constantly on here that unionist politicians simply ape their electorate rather than lead them with new ways of thinking.
Gerry Kelly has condemned it and said it has nothing to do with Republicanism. (Front page article in tele)
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 21, 2015, 12:52:12 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 21, 2015, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 21, 2015, 11:42:25 AM
Hard to know. . . you can be fairly certain the murder came from the IRA though!! (Sorry Ex-IRA)
McGuinness has come out strongly condemning those involved in both murders so that Sinn Fein can distance themselves from it (not going down well around these parts, as someone said "You wouldn't see Gerry Kelly condemning the IRA).
Will it be enough? I think it might be. Let's be honest nobody wants things back the way they were and the politicians have too much at stake to let it slip.
Could it not be argued that MMcG is trying to lead rather than run with the pack? Is that not what we'd like to see from leaders? We complain constantly on here that unionist politicians simply ape their electorate rather than lead them with new ways of thinking.
Gerry Kelly has condemned it and said it has nothing to do with Republicanism. (Front page article in tele)
Sure isn't that what politicians do - say what is expected of them - what they may then do or say privately may be different. Look at the other lead story in the IN. Paisley called for civil disobedience iafter the Anglo Irish Agreement- including urging non payment of rates - then paid his own bill lol
I don't really understand the ins and outs but how can any political party be blamed for a handful of people plotting to murder someone else?
I cant imagine any of the people involved in the shootings went to Gerry Adams or M MCG and said, "can you give us the go ahead to shoot such and such?"
Why are Sinn Fein getting the blame for this in some sectors?
Quote from: Christmas Lights on August 21, 2015, 01:07:46 PM
I don't really understand the ins and outs but how can any political party be blamed for a handful of people plotting to murder someone else?
I cant imagine any of the people involved in the shootings went to Gerry Adams or M MCG and said, "can you give us the go ahead to shoot such and such?"
Why are Sinn Fein getting the blame for this in some sectors?
because in the minds of unionists SF are the IRA in suits. To some of them it's impossible to be a republican (or nationalist...or Catholic) and not also be an IRA member/former member/apologist/sympathiser etc
It very often strikes me that some of those unionists seem to want stormont to fail.
Short answer NO, of course everyone has to do their posturing about how outraged they are by this but that's all it is posturing they've all too much to lose
Quote from: MoChara on August 21, 2015, 02:04:01 PM
Short answer NO, of course everyone has to do their posturing about how outraged they are by this but that's all it is posturing they've all too much to lose
Exactly. DUP and UUP are happy enough to keep the status quo. Remember when Protestants were up in arms about the Union Flag at City Hall?
They all got together for this big 'graduated response' . . . the whole shebang fizzled out in a month!!! Something similar will happen here!
Quote from: screenexile on August 21, 2015, 11:42:25 AM
Hard to know. . . you can be fairly certain the murder came from the IRA though!! (Sorry Ex-IRA)
McGuinness has come out strongly condemning those involved in both murders so that Sinn Fein can distance themselves from it (not going down well around these parts, as someone said "You wouldn't see Gerry Kelly condemning the IRA).
Will it be enough? I think it might be. Let's be honest nobody wants things back the way they were and the politicians have too big a salary to let it slip.
I trust that is what you actually meant ;)
Quote from: Orior on August 21, 2015, 11:24:12 AM
Denmark? Sure didn't Brian Boru send those boys packing in the year 1014.
I cannot believe the amount of wailing over this. Sure it is just a bunch of criminals getting even with each other. What does it matter that their CV has paramilitary experience?
Agreed. Don't see what the link would be between the guys who murdered McGuigan and the folks on the hill. The only thing I would say is that SF must have to walk a pretty tight rope when dealing with ex-provos. They're bound to know alot about the paramilitary past of Gerry, Martin and other prominent Shinners that would make for more explosive headlines than this current storm in a teacup.
If a loopy unionist does something stupid we get a thirty page thread here. When the IRA show themselves to be dangerous liars and charlatans, endangering everything the peace in the north is built on, and Sinn Fein are in the midst of one of their deepest crisises since power-sharing started we get nary a murmur.
The IRA disbanded in 2005. If they were still operational it would have been mentioned long before now. There is no way this murder was sanctioned. Political suicide.
Quote from: Syferus on August 22, 2015, 05:25:13 PM
If a loopy unionist does something stupid we get a thirty page thread here. When the IRA show themselves to be dangerous liars and charlatans, endangering everything the peace in the north is built on, and Sinn Fein are in the midst of one of their deepest crisises since power-sharing started we get nary a murmur.
What's the point? My outrage has long since morphed into meh, d**kheads, crooks, charlatans, useless hoors.
The PSNI are currently in 'negotiations' with 'community' representatives to take down a UVF flag from a junction point on a Railway line. Just be thankful you dont live in this joke of a country.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 21, 2015, 10:52:17 AM
How many falls has it taken now? Stormont is full of shit, I'd rather the money be saved and given to improving this place instead of constant fecking bickering and money being wasted
Has a decent decision/ piece of legislation come out stormont yet??
Jobs for the boys
Quote from: naka on August 23, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 21, 2015, 10:52:17 AM
How many falls has it taken now? Stormont is full of shit, I'd rather the money be saved and given to improving this place instead of constant fecking bickering and money being wasted
Has a decent decision/ piece of legislation come out stormont yet??
Jobs for the boys
What has it really done since its been set up?? All the real decisions surely are still done from London? I don't care much for the tribal politics that goes on here.... Its a bit cringy watching them bickering (same in London too) all this "he said this, and we're going to do that, and we are going to bring this down" bullshit!!!!
All this shows how undemocratic the Northern state is.A blind eye is turned to paramilitarism on both sides,as long as they kill their "own" people,hypocrisy abounds (didn't our eminent First Minister remark not so long ago,that the UVF are getting restless in East Belfast and should be awarded European Funding?).
The IRA did not go away, no matter what Gerry says. Mike Nesbitt is correct in that even for me a nationalist Gerry has no credibility. But then neither does Mike who's party will stand with the UDA/UVF/OO at Twaddell or Robinson who sees no problem with Ruthie attending UVF parades. The Northern State is a political cesspit. Unionists and Loyalists of all ilk's who are engaged actively in politics want no truck with Nationalism and Republicanism. SF are expected to be held to account for the actions of IRA men over whom they have little control but PUL politicians see no hypocrisy in their own interaction with extremist unionism and loyalism and violent street protests. The Northern state can not be reformed. There is absolutely no place for Irish Nationalist culture or symbolism in the exclusively unionist British state most PUL politicians envisage. SF and the SDLP should if they have any integrity just walk away from Stormont until the realise that actually sharing power and accommodating the two main ethnic groups here is our only chance for lasting peace.
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
British Army rapes women
http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2015/04/20/former-british-army-soldier-jailed-for-16-years-for-rape/
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
If an "old boys network" is going around killing people and "enforcing" its writ in places it must be worthy of some comment..........
It's all good news for FG/FF/Labour anyway as they know it will knock a some seats off SF's total in the next election in the 26 Cos.
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
McGuinness, Adams and Kelly have condemned it. Nothing much else they can do or say really, other than just sit tight and wait for the next scandal, headline or whatever else to come along.
Iron Mike pulling out of Executive and going to form opposition. That should put the cat among the pigeons.
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Quote from: Nigel White on August 26, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Iron Mike pulling out of Executive and going to form opposition. That should put the cat among the pigeons.
...if the rest of Unionism follows suit .Will make him look even more clueless if the others sit tight.
This is true...it will put a lot of pressure on the DUP though, they'll have to justify their decision to stay and its hard to see how they'll get away with taking a softer line. Be great if they did, he would look like some eejit. Unanimous though he said...
Nesbitt is a **** of the highest order and he's way off base here. . . This will make or break him and I hope it will break him. The ordinary man on the street knows that it was an old score settled by ex IRA men and that we're not on the verge of another onslaught of terrorism.
Nesbitt has forced his hand here and while he will get a few hard line defectors from the DUP and a few flegger c***ts (Bwyson and Wullie) on his side I think the regular Joe Prod on the street knows this is just a bit of posturing and has no real consequence to the peace process as a whole!!
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
Nesbitt is a **** of the highest order and he's way off base here. . . This will make or break him and I hope it will break him. The ordinary man on the street knows that it was an old score settled by ex IRA men and that we're not on the verge of another onslaught of terrorism.
Nesbitt has forced his hand here and while he will get a few hard line defectors from the DUP and a few flegger c***ts (Bwyson and Wullie) on his side I think the regular Joe Prod on the street knows this is just a bit of posturing and has no real consequence to the peace process as a whole!!
To be fair, Nesbitt is better than his three predecessors. Maybe you are hoping for the tasty looking bird to take his place?
Quote from: Orior on August 26, 2015, 02:17:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
Nesbitt is a **** of the highest order and he's way off base here. . . This will make or break him and I hope it will break him. The ordinary man on the street knows that it was an old score settled by ex IRA men and that we're not on the verge of another onslaught of terrorism.
Nesbitt has forced his hand here and while he will get a few hard line defectors from the DUP and a few flegger c***ts (Bwyson and Wullie) on his side I think the regular Joe Prod on the street knows this is just a bit of posturing and has no real consequence to the peace process as a whole!!
To be fair, Nesbitt is better than his three predecessors. Maybe you are hoping for the tasty looking bird to take his place?
She's all yours mate. . .
(http://www.belfastdaily.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Joanne-Dobson-Organ-Bill.jpg)
McGuinness reckons it's Inter Unionist Rivalry rather than Sinn Fein's commitment to peace . . . he has a point!
Quote from: Nigel White on August 26, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Iron Mike pulling out of Executive and going to form opposition. That should put the cat among the pigeons.
sdlp and alliance should follow suit
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
McGuinness, Adams and Kelly have condemned it. Nothing much else they can do or say really, other than just sit tight and wait for the next scandal, headline or whatever else to come along.
There is plenty more they can do.
On the McGuigan murder they can appeal for witnesses to the murder (or its preparation etc) to come forward to the police?
They can give witnesses confidence that speaking to the PSNI is acceptable and not damaging to their personal safety
They can use their influence to make sure there is no threat to the safety of witnesses who come forward.
On wider criminal activity by republicans they can make similar appeals and use their influence in similar ways.
That is ofcourse if they have any interest in showing leadership. Real Leadership
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Their "delight" at the troubles starting up agins is based on what exactly?
Is their any threat of the troubles starting up? Who is itching to get all violent again?
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on August 26, 2015, 01:05:47 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on August 26, 2015, 12:58:56 PM
Iron Mike pulling out of Executive and going to form opposition. That should put the cat among the pigeons.
...if the rest of Unionism follows suit .Will make him look even more clueless if the others sit tight.
Not really. It was probable that he would have went into opposition anyway even without this republican feuding spilling over into murder
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 02:08:21 PM
Nesbitt is a **** of the highest order and he's way off base here. . . This will make or break him and I hope it will break him. The ordinary man on the street knows that it was an old score settled by ex IRA men and that we're not on the verge of another onslaught of terrorism.
Nesbitt has forced his hand here and while he will get a few hard line defectors from the DUP and a few flegger c***ts (Bwyson and Wullie) on his side I think the regular Joe Prod on the street knows this is just a bit of posturing and has no real consequence to the peace process as a whole!!
I think you are getting your kacks in a twist here.
Nobody thinks we are on the verge of another onslaught of terrorism. But that is not the same as sayng that murder is acceptable if it is merely intra-group score settling.
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
McGuinness, Adams and Kelly have condemned it. Nothing much else they can do or say really, other than just sit tight and wait for the next scandal, headline or whatever else to come along.
There is plenty more they can do.
On the McGuigan murder they can appeal for witnesses to the murder (or its preparation etc) to come forward to the police?
They can give witnesses confidence that speaking to the PSNI is acceptable and not damaging to their personal safety
They can use their influence to make sure there is no threat to the safety of witnesses who come forward.
On wider criminal activity by republicans they can make similar appeals and use their influence in similar ways.
That is ofcourse if they have any interest in showing leadership. Real Leadership
I don't agree with your suggestions of what SF should do more of. For the simple reason that those with the guns / those willing to use them aren't going to listen to the shinners anyway.
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on August 26, 2015, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
McGuinness, Adams and Kelly have condemned it. Nothing much else they can do or say really, other than just sit tight and wait for the next scandal, headline or whatever else to come along.
There is plenty more they can do.
On the McGuigan murder they can appeal for witnesses to the murder (or its preparation etc) to come forward to the police?
They can give witnesses confidence that speaking to the PSNI is acceptable and not damaging to their personal safety
They can use their influence to make sure there is no threat to the safety of witnesses who come forward.
On wider criminal activity by republicans they can make similar appeals and use their influence in similar ways.
That is ofcourse if they have any interest in showing leadership. Real Leadership
I don't agree with your suggestions of what SF should do more of. For the simple reason that those with the guns / those willing to use them aren't going to listen to the shinners anyway.
Exactly.
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Their "delight" at the troubles starting up agins is based on what exactly?
Is their any threat of the troubles starting up? Who is itching to get all violent again?
ffs...clearly hyperbole for effect. And the army rape post seems to have also been over your head
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
It's former members of a now virtually defunct organisation, it's not Sinn Fein's fault.
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Just as an aside, how does it feel to bask in the freedom won for you by 'a terrorist organisation' and a bunch of republican 'criminals'.
And BTW, Nesbitt deserves all the abuse he gets cos he brings most of it upon himself... what was that supposed to be today, the fecking Gettysburg Address?
Quote from: Keyboard Warrior on August 26, 2015, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 25, 2015, 03:01:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 25, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2015, 12:09:48 AM
Awful silence from the SF gang of Gaaboarders ;)
I also noticed a lack of comment in the press from SF. But why should they have to make comments about an old boys network?
McGuinness, Adams and Kelly have condemned it. Nothing much else they can do or say really, other than just sit tight and wait for the next scandal, headline or whatever else to come along.
There is plenty more they can do.
On the McGuigan murder they can appeal for witnesses to the murder (or its preparation etc) to come forward to the police?
They can give witnesses confidence that speaking to the PSNI is acceptable and not damaging to their personal safety
They can use their influence to make sure there is no threat to the safety of witnesses who come forward.
On wider criminal activity by republicans they can make similar appeals and use their influence in similar ways.
That is ofcourse if they have any interest in showing leadership. Real Leadership
I don't agree with your suggestions of what SF should do more of. For the simple reason that those with the guns / those willing to use them aren't going to listen to the shinners anyway.
So SF only do things if they are going to be effective? Why do they condemn these killings? What use is that?
I think SF claim to be the leaders of republicanism then what actions do they propose to cut out the violence and organised criminality that persists within republicanism and how well are they doing with this?
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 04:01:04 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Their "delight" at the troubles starting up agins is based on what exactly?
Is their any threat of the troubles starting up? Who is itching to get all violent again?
ffs...clearly hyperbole for effect. And the army rape post seems to have also been over your head
And what effect.
My apologies for confusing your posts with tired and useless wankery. The hilarity of rape stories escapes me.
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Sorry Syferus, but this is spoken like a man who just has no clue.
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh*? Really?
Edit: *Or Loyalist east Belfast for that matter.
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?
Please do. In detail
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?
Please do. In detail
Sorry, I've better things to be doing so I'll decline your request. Tell you what, have a guess and I'll tell you if you're right or not.
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 26, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Sorry Syferus, but this is spoken like a man who just has no clue.
Nah.
It's patently apparent some people here, and indeed it seems a relatively widespread sentiment in the north, are so attached to the old way of doing business they can't foresee a future where criminals are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I suppose the ridiculousness of the Good Friday Agreement freeing a pile of murderers has helped cement that idea into popular consciousness in the north.
That fact is something needs to change and I don't think waiting it out for the criminals to die and for people like Adams and McGuiness to be sent out to pasture for the next generation to take over really fixes the root problems. Make no mistake, there's animals on the unionist side too but what republicans can deal with are their own - they are not doing that, they're still actively shielding them and in cases like Adams the reason is a much because they know so much about his denied IRA past as it is to do with protecting power-sharing.
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?
Please do. In detail
Sorry, I've better things to be doing so I'll decline your request. Tell you what, have a guess and I'll tell you if you're right or not.
No, no i set out my position. You said I didn't take account of the nuances. You know th nuances so spell them out. We have all the time in the world so time pressure is no excuse. Spell it out. Give us the detail.
You used the phrase "big brave internet warrior" so lets have no hiding
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 04:01:04 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Their "delight" at the troubles starting up agins is based on what exactly?
Is their any threat of the troubles starting up? Who is itching to get all violent again?
ffs...clearly hyperbole for effect. And the army rape post seems to have also been over your head
And what effect.
My apologies for confusing your posts with tired and useless wankery. The hilarity of rape stories escapes me.
Quite a lot escapes you.
I don't know why I'm bothering, but the point re the rape was to demonstrate how silly it is (imo) to blame the organisation for the un-sanctioned criminal acts of its members
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 08:31:05 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 04:01:04 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 03:08:13 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 26, 2015, 01:04:10 PM
Ridiculous; looks very much like an attempt to show they're still relevant and do have influence. It seems they'd be only too delighted if the Troubles started up again just so they could say 'I told you so'
Their "delight" at the troubles starting up agins is based on what exactly?
Is their any threat of the troubles starting up? Who is itching to get all violent again?
ffs...clearly hyperbole for effect. And the army rape post seems to have also been over your head
And what effect.
My apologies for confusing your posts with tired and useless wankery. The hilarity of rape stories escapes me.
Quite a lot escapes you.
I don't know why I'm bothering, but the point re the rape was to demonstrate how silly it is (imo) to blame the organisation for the un-sanctioned criminal acts of its members
I'll give you the point re me. Your subtlety did escape me. Happy to admit to that.
On the wider point I think your argument is ill-founded. The army exists for many reasons but rape wasn't one of them. Rape is therefore not a reversion of one member to the previous objectives and methods of the organisation.
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 07:25:49 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 26, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Sorry Syferus, but this is spoken like a man who just has no clue.
Nah.
It's patently apparent some people here, and indeed it seems a relatively widespread sentiment in the north, are so attached to the old way of doing business they can't foresee a future where criminals are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I suppose the ridiculousness of the Good Friday Agreement freeing a pile of murderers has helped cement that idea into popular consciousness in the north.
Or spoken by a westbrit living in an ivory tower
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 07:25:49 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 26, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Sorry Syferus, but this is spoken like a man who just has no clue.
Nah.
It's patently apparent some people here, and indeed it seems a relatively widespread sentiment in the north, are so attached to the old way of doing business they can't foresee a future where criminals are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I suppose the ridiculousness of the Good Friday Agreement freeing a pile of murderers has helped cement that idea into popular consciousness in the north.
That fact is something needs to change and I don't think waiting it out for the criminals to die and for people like Adams and McGuiness to be sent out to pasture for the next generation to take over really fixes the root problems. Make no mistake, there's animals on the unionist side too but what republicans can deal with are their own - they are not doing that, they're still actively shielding them and in cases like Adams the reason is a much because they know so much about his denied IRA past as it is to do with protecting power-sharing.
Syferus, given where we are at the minute, and assuming you are having that discussion, that reads as though you are saying SF are protecting kevin mcguigans killers. Where do you get that from?
I f**king hate Sinn Fein but this whole charade is a mud slinging contest. Blaming SF for the murders of a load of falls road drug barons is like blaming Panathanikos fc for the Greek financial crisis.
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on August 26, 2015, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 07:25:49 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 26, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Sorry Syferus, but this is spoken like a man who just has no clue.
Nah.
It's patently apparent some people here, and indeed it seems a relatively widespread sentiment in the north, are so attached to the old way of doing business they can't foresee a future where criminals are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I suppose the ridiculousness of the Good Friday Agreement freeing a pile of murderers has helped cement that idea into popular consciousness in the north.
Or spoken by a westbrit living in an ivory tower
That took all of three pages. Things are looking up, really.
Is it just a few old stagers that are been 'taken out' or is there a more sinister campaign as implied by the PSNI?
I don't understand why we would and should not be busting the criminal gangs in South Armagh/Falls Road/Shankill/Sandy Row??
Its criminality at this stage and should be dealt with. Also anyone involved in the murder of Davison or McGuigan should also be brought to justice. None of these acts have anything to do with Republicanism anymore!
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 11:20:42 PM
I don't understand why we would and should not be busting the criminal gangs in South Armagh/Falls Road/Shankill/Sandy Row??
Sometimes a quiet life suits, the PSNI have quite modest resources compared to the old days. But if they "sort out" South Armagh/Falls Road then they would have to do something about Shankill/Sandy Row as well and that wouldn't do, would it?
Quote from: trileacman on August 26, 2015, 11:14:28 PM
I f**king hate Sinn Fein but this whole charade is a mud slinging contest. Blaming SF for the murders of a load of falls road drug barons is like blaming Panathanikos fc for the Greek financial crisis.
To be fair I don't think anybody is blaming SF for the murder. They are accusing them of being untrustworthy coalition partners.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 26, 2015, 11:18:48 PM
Is it just a few old stagers that are been 'taken out' or is there a more sinister campaign as implied by the PSNI?
The taking out of a couple of old stagers is sinister enough. Anybody who says its something we have to put up with needs to spell out why we have to put up with it.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 11:20:42 PM
I don't understand why we would and should not be busting the criminal gangs in South Armagh/Falls Road/Shankill/Sandy Row??
Sometimes a quiet life suits, the PSNI have quite modest resources compared to the old days. But if they "sort out" South Armagh/Falls Road then they would have to do something about Shankill/Sandy Row as well and that wouldn't do, would it?
If resources are the issue let the NCA have a go? I'm sure they would recover enough to fund it.
I dom't think you should leave people with the idea that the S Armagh thing is left alone because there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality.
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 11:20:42 PM
I don't understand why we would and should not be busting the criminal gangs in South Armagh/Falls Road/Shankill/Sandy Row??
Sometimes a quiet life suits, the PSNI have quite modest resources compared to the old days. But if they "sort out" South Armagh/Falls Road then they would have to do something about Shankill/Sandy Row as well and that wouldn't do, would it?
If resources are the issue let the NCA have a go? I'm sure they would recover enough to fund it.
I dom't think you should leave people with the idea that the S Armagh thing is left alone because there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality.
I was referring to resources in the context of manpower to roam around South Armagh.
But the reluctance extends beyond that. Dodgy fuel is being sold in Antrim and isn't being dealt with, a Nelsonian eye is being turned.
And if I have left people with the idea that the S Armagh thing is left alone because there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality, why shouldn't I, when it is true?
Looks like the Executive is a busted flush. DUP want SF excluded, that will fail, DUP will walk. Back to Direct Rule until the elections planned for next May I would think. Good time for the South to invade!
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 27, 2015, 10:06:02 AM
Looks like the Executive is a busted flush. DUP want SF excluded, that will fail, DUP will walk. Back to Direct Rule until the elections planned for next May I would think.
And of course they don't have to make difficult Budgetary decisions ::)
"Twas the Brits that cut yer benefits, Health, Education etc...."
Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2015, 11:06:11 AM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 27, 2015, 10:06:02 AM
Looks like the Executive is a busted flush. DUP want SF excluded, that will fail, DUP will walk. Back to Direct Rule until the elections planned for next May I would think.
And of course they don't have to make difficult Budgetary decisions ::)
"Twas the Brits that cut yer benefits, Health, Education etc...."
Is this not the whole point. Bring in Direct rule, sort out welfare cuts, then back as you were.
Am I missing something but has it taken this latest murder for the penny to drop with the PSNI and Unionists that the IRA might still be about in some shape or form? Or has this just been the moment they have been waiting and waiting for as an excuse to pull the plug?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2015, 11:06:11 AM
And of course they don't have to make difficult Budgetary decisions ::)
"Twas the Brits that cut yer benefits, Health, Education etc...."
It wasn't SF who are trying to collapse the assembly, but their political rivals, who are unlikely to be amenable to helping SF out of the tricky situation they're in re welfare reform.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on August 27, 2015, 11:53:09 AM
Am I missing something but has it taken this latest murder for the penny to drop with the PSNI and Unionists that the IRA might still be about in some shape or form? Or has this just been the moment they have been waiting and waiting for as an excuse to pull the plug?
They just needed a reason however flimsy to collapse the thing and then appeal to the hard line base that 'we can never trust the Republicans".
It's Electoral posturing which will affect the DUP more so than SF. I can't see this being a big issue to SF supporters but the UUP's move will get them a lot of the NO NEVER characters who Paisley used to lead over the cliff and then say it wasn't his fault!
It's all ridiculous anyway because the UUP were the first party into Stormont with SF at the time anyway.
It would all be funny if it wasn't peoples livelihoods at stake with this nonsense!!!
Is Mike Teavee's (never get tired of that) grandstanding likely to go down well with the plain fleg-loving Unionist voter? Shinner bashing is always a winner, but surely they are too far gone at this stage.
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?
Please do. In detail
Sorry, I've better things to be doing so I'll decline your request. Tell you what, have a guess and I'll tell you if you're right or not.
No, no i set out my position. You said I didn't take account of the nuances. You know th nuances so spell them out. We have all the time in the world so time pressure is no excuse. Spell it out. Give us the detail.
You used the phrase "big brave internet warrior" so lets have no hiding
Speak for yourself!
You didn't set out your position. You asked a few questions and then stated your entire plan which was 3 words long - 'bust them now'. That's every bit as detailed as me saying 'it's not that easy'.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 27, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?
That's the thing, Mike and the PUL are only too willing the pull the plug on Stormont as they'd be happy enough to be run by a secretary of state picked from the Conservative government in London.
Having the Dublin administration as part of the power sharing agreement will upset the loyalists and might cause Mike and Pete to get back round the table in Stormont.
irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head
"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"
Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North
Quote from: naka on August 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head
"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"
Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North
This is true. Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green. They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 27, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through.
And whose fault is that? Who are the elected representatives for those two areas? If only it was a party in government...
News reporter Tara Mills asking Mike Teevee the question on everyone's lips. Fair play till her..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-1fQC7L-A
Fair play tara. This whole thing is a sham. Unionists looking for any excuse to get out of there. Joke
These things generally get sorted as a) they don't was direct rule and b) it is a lucrative gig.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 27, 2015, 07:07:51 AM
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 06:57:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2015, 11:47:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 26, 2015, 11:20:42 PM
I don't understand why we would and should not be busting the criminal gangs in South Armagh/Falls Road/Shankill/Sandy Row??
Sometimes a quiet life suits, the PSNI have quite modest resources compared to the old days. But if they "sort out" South Armagh/Falls Road then they would have to do something about Shankill/Sandy Row as well and that wouldn't do, would it?
If resources are the issue let the NCA have a go? I'm sure they would recover enough to fund it.
I dom't think you should leave people with the idea that the S Armagh thing is left alone because there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality.
I was referring to resources in the context of manpower to roam around South Armagh.
But the reluctance extends beyond that. Dodgy fuel is being sold in Antrim and isn't being dealt with, a Nelsonian eye is being turned.
And if I have left people with the idea that the S Armagh thing is left alone because there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality, why shouldn't I, when it is true?
Dodgy fuel being sold every where. Crack down on the lot at the point of "manufacture"
Set out your proof that there is a bigger reluctance to tackle Shankill/Sandy Row criminality than S Armagh criminality.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 27, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?
Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north. The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF
I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational
Quote from: Franko on August 27, 2015, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:11:57 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 07:02:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2015, 06:53:37 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 26, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on August 26, 2015, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Syferus on August 26, 2015, 04:11:31 PM
Amazing how enough though it's the IRA and SF that are covering themselves in shit that a lot of this thread is directed at a unionist politician.
Is the perspective so warped in the north that ye can't see how unsettling it is to see a supposedly gone terrorist organisation settling scores with impunity, and the PSNI almost terrified to admit they're still active because it may effect the political process?
Too much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Easy to say that from the comfort of having no experience of the alternative.
Everyone knows that there are uncomfortable things to have to 'put up' with on both sides but these are by far way better than the alternatives.
The longer the peace lasts the less need and relevance these elements will have and we can get to some kind of normality that 99.0% of the population would like.
So if we decide that we won't put up with UVF racketeering what will be the long term consequence?
If we decide to bust the fuel laundering and diluting in South Armagh will the money men throw their bombs out of the pram? Is that the sort of thing that masquerades as republicanism these days? Same with the drug dealers and the boys selling fake lottery tickets. Is the threat of republican violence just a means of keeping the police out of their criminal manors?
Bust them now.
That's the big brave internet warrior approach there. You sound like a Fox News reporter talking about ISIS. Unfortunately in reality things have to be a little more nuanced.
So explain these real world nuances?
Do I really have to explain the likely political consequences of the PSNI going in gung-ho to 'bust' anyone involved in criminality in south Armagh? Really?
Please do. In detail
Sorry, I've better things to be doing so I'll decline your request. Tell you what, have a guess and I'll tell you if you're right or not.
No, no i set out my position. You said I didn't take account of the nuances. You know th nuances so spell them out. We have all the time in the world so time pressure is no excuse. Spell it out. Give us the detail.
You used the phrase "big brave internet warrior" so lets have no hiding
Speak for yourself!
You didn't set out your position. You asked a few questions and then stated your entire plan which was 3 words long - 'bust them now'. That's every bit as detailed as me saying 'it's not that easy'.
So you are arguing that we must tolerate criminality but refusing to to explain why? Mighty stuff. Glad you logged in.
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 27, 2015, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: naka on August 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head
"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"
Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North
This is true. Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green. They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.
How big is this large swathe?
I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs. Those days are gone never to return. My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning
Quote from: An Watcher on August 27, 2015, 11:00:59 PM
I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs. Those days are gone never to return. My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning
I don't see it! Why would they? People talk about the struggle being for a United Ireland but in honesty I think it was about equality. Now that we are equal what real reason is there to take up arms again?
We don't have an entire section of the community downtrodden and waiting to fight back now people want to work hard and make an honest living as they are allowed to do now without much hindrance!
QuoteToo much 'defend my side at all costs' going on in IRA/SF circles right now. They can now choose to stick their heads in the ground ala Gerry Adams or actually root out these elements. Doing nothing or actively shielding these criminals isn't a solution.
Haven't heard that expression since Willie McCrea was about!
Quote from: screenexile on August 27, 2015, 11:09:04 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on August 27, 2015, 11:00:59 PM
I would have to agree with the large swathe assessment. Bring it back to the old days when unionists were the top dogs. Those days are gone never to return. My only concern is how far away are we from the guns returning
I don't see it! Why would they? People talk about the struggle being for a United Ireland but in honesty I think it was about equality. Now that we are equal what real reason is there to take up arms again?
The struggle was about ending colonisation. A large measure of "equality" while still being a colony is definitely an improvement, but the notion that this is acceptable is an unionist one, not a nationalist one.
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 27, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?
Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north. The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF
I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational
I use the flag thing as a comparison of the mind-sets.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 27, 2015, 08:38:04 PM
News reporter Tara Mills asking Mike Teevee the question on everyone's lips. Fair play till her..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-1fQC7L-A
Crikey. When you consider how little we expect of politicians when it comes to dodging tricky questions, that was truly abject.
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 27, 2015, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: naka on August 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head
"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"
Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North
This is true. Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green. They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.
How big is this large swathe?
How big is a swathe?? One of those questions that has baffled humanity for centuries. Analysts reckon about 40%-42% of unionists voted
against the Good Friday Agreement in the referendum in 1998. I'd reckon the swathe is less than 50% but greater than 33%.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/former-loyalist-paramilitary-jailed-for-having-guns-and-ammunition-despite-plea-from-peter-robinson-to-show-leniency-31485435.html
A number of DUP politicians write to the judge pleading for leniency in the case of Loyalist on the run for 40 years.
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 27, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
Firstly I'd say SF are mightily pissed at the old comrades settling scores in this way. I'd have some sympathy for them in that regard. However some of their associations with known racketeers even at a lower level gives ammunition to Unionism. That said Unionists do not know the meaning of the word hypocrisy, they consort with all sorts of Loyalist paramilitaries, gang leaders and criminals in the interests of our fleg and culture. Nesbitt says Unionists don't trust SF as if trust is a one way street. I'd say nationalists and republicans have even less reason to trust PUL politicians given our experience from partition to now. PUL parties want equality but only on their terms, don't think about expressing Irish identity or ask for recognition of your symbols and flags. Just look at the NI run sporting bodies there is no on flag or anthem as opposed to the IRFU, GUI, Hockey and cricket. Unionists do not want to share power or this place. I note some of the simplistic posts from our southern brothers mainly aimed at SF (who are not blameless nor entirely to blame). The situation here is much more complicated and in the areas that McGuigan and Davidson come from little benefit from the peace process has filtered through. I would prefer that the two governments took control and run this place until a future generation that is not steeped in the sectarianism of the present can decide on an agreed way forward. I could go on and on but sure what's the point?
Plenty there I can agree with. SF are no doubt pissed that some of their associates still think that killing people is the way to do business. It will harm SF though not necessarily in the north. The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others. Mike TV is being hypocritical in sharing a platform with some loyalists and his current attitude to SF
I think it is a nonsense to compare use of the flag/anthem by sports organised on an all island basis with whose organised within NI. Pure nonsense. Also some say by the Irish government is any imminent direct rule is not going to be on a pari passu basis with the UK government. The irish involvement will be notional and presentational
Why do you think it will harm SF in the south? The evidence over the past decades is that SF's profile keeps rising despite predictions about damage due to this or that controversy,whether it be real, exaggerated or contrived. And I surmise the more transparantly bogus and coordinated the attack, the more the rebound is for Sinn Fein. Every time McDowell and Martin (each according to their own agenda) opens their mouth, the Sinn Fein popularity meter registers another mark. There is a level of gullibility and fear amongst the voters which is easily manipulated by promises, lots of them, but when it comes to stuff like this, the public (in the middle) generally see it for what it is.
"The toleration of republicanism in criminality in some makes it difficult to criticise the same behaviour in others."What relevance has such a statement to Sinn Fein the political party? Is there evidence that members of Sinn Fein are involved in/tolerate criminal ventures or do the words of the Chief constable have merit
I presume here the chief constable is referring to Prov IRA the almost empty shell, the organisation that signed a peace treaty all those years ago.
"there is no evidence at this stage that the killing was sanctioned by the organisation"
"the police assessment, he said, is that the Provisional IRA remains committed to politics and is not engaged in terrorism.
"They are not on a war footing, they are not involved in paramilitary activity in the sense that they were during the period of the conflict," he said.
on Sinn Fein "Sinn Féin is committed to the peace process"
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 28, 2015, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: LCohen on August 27, 2015, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on August 27, 2015, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: naka on August 27, 2015, 01:31:22 PM
irish news in its editorial hits the nail on its head
"the huge pity is that many ordinary voters will no longer care either way"
Stormont has long since ceased to be relevant to most tax payers in the North
This is true. Also there is a large swathe of Unionism in NI that quite simply does not want power sharing, does not want a shared future, does not want anything to do with the South, Irish language, GAA or anything that's too green. They are not the majority of PULs but they are significant.
How big is this large swathe?
How big is a swathe?? One of those questions that has baffled humanity for centuries. Analysts reckon about 40%-42% of unionists voted against the Good Friday Agreement in the referendum in 1998. I'd reckon the swathe is less than 50% but greater than 33%.
Since the purpose of unionism is to keep the Plantation of Ulster going, it intrinsically favours inequality.Some are more realistic than others though and realise that the best way to keep the whole thing going is to moderate things. In the context of present events, I think people 25 years ago would have regarded the present "impasse" as something of storm in a teacup.
U get the feelin that Nesbitt just wants his name in the history books the attention seekin w**ker
Quote from: Hereiam on August 29, 2015, 08:01:15 PM
U get the feelin that Nesbitt just wants his name in the history books the attention seekin w**ker
Think about what you are saying. Politicians are meant to represent and lead their electorate.
It is time that SF and the SDLP opt out of Stormont or is the money too good? Unionists don't want to share anything with their nationalist neighbours, Arlene on GMU this morning was lamenting the loss of our Police force the RUC...sums them up our country means a loyalist protestant Ulster in the minds of many Unionist politicians.
I'm sure most Unionists (capital U) would love to turn the clock back to 1967.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34026678
Mr Hamilton said that "some of the Provisional IRA structure from the 1990s remains broadly in place" but its purpose "has radically changed since this period".
The police assessment, he said, is that the Provisional IRA remains committed to politics and is not engaged in terrorism.
That was the assessment of the PSNI, which apparently the decision to walk (UUP) probably try to exclude SF (DUP) is based on. The DUP has had its hand forced by the actions of the UUP - it can't be seen to carry on as normal when they have walked out; but if any of the other parties support measures proposed by the DUP then they really will be cowards. Bring down Stormont if you want, but don't try to portray the IRA as still being involved in terrorism as your reason for doing so, especially when you purport to have based such a decision on a statement by the PSNI chief, in which he states the opposite!
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2015, 10:54:17 AM
I'm sure most Unionists (capital U) would love to turn the clock back to 1967.
1967 isn't available, the danger is that they will turn the clock back to 1976.
I was present during a conversation the other day which included an Ulster Unionist councillor. He reckon there will be a small period of direct rule and an early election. A short period of direct rule will allow welfare reform and maybe water charges to be introduced and everyone can blame the tories making the devolved institutions suddenly more appealing again.
Unionism doesn't want to treat those of us with an Irish Identity as equals. None of the symbols of this state recognise that almost as many of us identity as Irish as identify as British. Unionism will never concede this willingly.
I see the University of Ulster is scaling back its language and maths courses owing to less money. It is a measure of the planning for the future that the cutbacks are in the very disciplines that economic reports call for more graduate competence in. I'm sure there will thorough discussion at Stormont on these important matters.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 02, 2015, 07:08:32 PM
I see the University of Ulster is scaling back its language and maths courses owing to less money. It is a measure of the planning for the future that the cutbacks are in the very disciplines that economic reports call for more graduate competence in. I'm sure there will thorough discussion at Stormont on these important matters.
::)
flegs etc are more important to the numpties in Stormont
I think we should cut their wages
Quote from: naka on September 02, 2015, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 02, 2015, 07:08:32 PM
I see the University of Ulster is scaling back its language and maths courses owing to less money. It is a measure of the planning for the future that the cutbacks are in the very disciplines that economic reports call for more graduate competence in. I'm sure there will thorough discussion at Stormont on these important matters.
::)
flegs etc are more important to the numpties in Stormont
I think we should cut their wages
Shut the place down and turn it into accommodation for those fleeing Syria, Iraq etc. Least it would be serving some useful function.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on September 02, 2015, 11:35:37 PM
Quote from: naka on September 02, 2015, 07:37:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 02, 2015, 07:08:32 PM
I see the University of Ulster is scaling back its language and maths courses owing to less money. It is a measure of the planning for the future that the cutbacks are in the very disciplines that economic reports call for more graduate competence in. I'm sure there will thorough discussion at Stormont on these important matters.
::)
flegs etc are more important to the numpties in Stormont
I think we should cut their wages
Shut the place down and turn it into accommodation for those fleeing Syria, Iraq etc. Least it would be serving some useful function.
perhaps you could have both sides from Syria, and they could bring their flegs and whatnot
If you want a vision of what life under Unionist majority rule would look like just keep an eye on the Causeway Coast and Glens council it is fast becoming the new Craigavon Borough Council.
Bobby Storey arrested over Kevin McGuigan murder.
Will the arrest of Bobby Storey mean anything or is it just a Trawl of people to show something is being done?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34196151
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 09, 2015, 10:43:32 AM
Will the arrest of Bobby Storey mean anything or is it just a Trawl of people to show something is being done?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-34196151
Eddie Copeland and Brian Gillen scooped too. Round up of the usual suspects??
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Mike Nesbitt's position is hilarious.
He doesn't trust what SF say. But he wont move forward until he hears them say something.
It's all going to go tits up
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/het-wanted-to-question-martin-mcguinness-over-enniskillen-bombing-but-were-halted-by-nio-its-been-claimed-31513668.html
A cold-case police team wanted to question Martin McGuinness over the Enniskillen bombing - but was prevented from doing so by the Northern Ireland Office, it was claimed today. The astonishing allegation came during a meeting of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee at Westminster. Twelve people died when an IRA bomb exploded on Remembrance Sunday in 1987. Kenny Donaldson, a victims campaigner in the Fermanagh area, said he had been told by a senior investigator with the now-defunct Historical Enquiries Team that investigators wanted to question Mr McGuinness about the atrocity. However, he told MPs that the NIO had advised that it "would not be a good idea". Mr Donaldson said he was told nothing more came of the matter. "We have been advised by a senior former HET investigator that he had cause to wish to bring in the Deputy First Minister for questioning in regards to that atrocity," Mr Donaldson said. "He was prevented from doing so. The NIO advised that that would not be a good idea, and it didn't happen."
Eleven people were killed and 63 others were injured when the no warning bomb ripped through the Co Fermanagh town on November 8, 1987. A 12th victim school principal, Ronnie Hill, spent 13 years in a coma and died in 2000. No one has ever been convicted in connection with the massacre, among the worst of the Troubles. In 2013 First Minister Peter Robinson said the PSNI "should be talking" to Mr McGuinness if there was evidence to suggest he knew anything about the Enniskillen bombing. Mr Robinson told the Impartial Reporter newspaper that he had never spoken to the Deputy First Minister about the attack, but added: "If there is evidence that suggests that he has information then it is the police who should be talking to him, not me." Previously Mr McGuinness has said he felt ashamed when incidents such as the Enniskillen bombing were carried out in the name of Irish republicanism. He made the comments on RTE as part of the Irish State broadcaster's coverage of the 2011 presidential election. When asked about the Enniskillen bombing, Mr McGuinness said: "I feel ashamed when incidents like that happened. "I know that the journalists, if they had the opportunity, would blame me for the 1916 Rising and the war of independence." In 2008 a BBC documentary claimed Mr McGuinness knew of the IRA's plans to bomb Enniskillen. Journalist Peter Taylor alleged he was the leading figure on the IRA's Northern Command at the time of the attack. In the TV documentary 'Age of Terror: 10 Days of Terror', Mr Taylor said Northern Command knew about the bombing beforehand but did nothing to prevent it. Mr Taylor said: "British and Irish security sources on both sides of the border have each independently told me that Martin McGuinness, now Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister, was the leading figure on Northern Command at the time of the attack. "In the hours after the bombing, my sources say that McGuinness travelled to Fermanagh to question members of the local IRA unit to find out what had gone wrong." At the time Mr McGuinness said allegations were "completely false" and based on "untrue briefings from faceless individuals in the intelligence apparatus long hostile to Sinn Fein"
The Pope is a Catholic.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 09, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
The Pope is a Catholic.
I'd imagine a lot of Conservative Catholic would agree.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34183453
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
Mike Nesbitt's position is hilarious.
He doesn't trust what SF say. But he wont move forward until he hears them say something.
He'll talk to anyone in the interests of peace, but he won't talk to Them. He's the Meat Loaf of politics.
Quote from: deiseach on September 09, 2015, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
Mike Nesbitt's position is hilarious.
He doesn't trust what SF say. But he wont move forward until he hears them say something.
He'll talk to anyone in the interests of peace, but he won't talk to Them. He's the Meat Loaf of politics.
Sure is. But the BBC love him, he is never pressed (except by Nolan) on evening extra or good morning OWC over the inconsistencies or hypocrisy of his posturing on Loyalist Paramilitaries.
He has to be one of the worst UUP leaders in their history. Completely spineless and incapable. The man was supposed to be intelligent - I dunno what happened there.
DUP to go unless Brits suspend assembly...sooner the better
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34202545
Erm. If the DUP and UUP walk out, would that not make Sinn Fein the defacto leaders of NI? A quick legislative change and hey presto, 32 County United Ireland!
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 09, 2015, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
Mike Nesbitt's position is hilarious.
He doesn't trust what SF say. But he wont move forward until he hears them say something.
He'll talk to anyone in the interests of peace, but he won't talk to Them. He's the Meat Loaf of politics.
Sure is. But the BBC love him, he is never pressed (except by Nolan) on evening extra or good morning OWC over the inconsistencies or hypocrisy of his posturing on Loyalist Paramilitaries.
Theres a Youtube clip of Tara Mills giving him a decent grilling on his hypocrisy at sitting down with terrorists. It may even have been posted on this thread.
Quote from: doodaa on September 09, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
Theres a Youtube clip of Tara Mills giving him a decent grilling on his hypocrisy at sitting down with terrorists. It may even have been posted on this thread.
Yep, Jeepers Creepers posted it - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-1fQC7L-A
Probably asked already, will it stop their fecking wages??? I hope so cause they've done nothing but make dciks of themselves since the start.... They said this and they said that!!!!
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2015, 04:05:38 PM
Erm. If the DUP and UUP walk out, would that not make Sinn Fein the defacto leaders of NI? A quick legislative change and hey presto, 32 County United Ireland!
Lol. Sshh there's enough paranoid people out there who would believe that and cause trouble!
I don't believe the DUP would have went had it not been for the UUP. I also believe that was mainly attention seeking.
In my view unionist politicians(mainly) have never fully wanted proper peace, equality etc. Their true colours come out every january. They come out with their petitions of concerns, with their "pacts" to make sure alliance or SF don't get in etc.
They have no interest in true democracy or equal rights and they live in a fear that if they give "them 'uns" too much they'll just push for a united ireland.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 09, 2015, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2015, 04:05:38 PM
Erm. If the DUP and UUP walk out, would that not make Sinn Fein the defacto leaders of NI? A quick legislative change and hey presto, 32 County United Ireland!
Lol. Sshh there's enough paranoid people out there who would believe that and cause trouble!
I don't believe the DUP would have went had it not been for the UUP. I also believe that was mainly attention seeking.
In my view unionist politicians(mainly) have never fully wanted proper peace, equality etc. Their true colours come out every january. They come out with their petitions of concerns, with their "pacts" to make sure alliance or SF don't get in etc.
They have no interest in true democracy or equal rights and they live in a fear that if they give "them 'uns" too much they'll just push for a united ireland.
Is that not a genuine fear though as that is one of Sinn Feins main aims which they make no bones about?
Their best way to prevent/delay a U I is to make Nationalists welcome and at ease in the 6 Cos.
Thankfully their ubermensch nature plus the OO keeping them in line means they'll never try that.
Quote from: doodaa on September 09, 2015, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 09, 2015, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 09, 2015, 04:05:38 PM
Erm. If the DUP and UUP walk out, would that not make Sinn Fein the defacto leaders of NI? A quick legislative change and hey presto, 32 County United Ireland!
Lol. Sshh there's enough paranoid people out there who would believe that and cause trouble!
I don't believe the DUP would have went had it not been for the UUP. I also believe that was mainly attention seeking.
In my view unionist politicians(mainly) have never fully wanted proper peace, equality etc. Their true colours come out every january. They come out with their petitions of concerns, with their "pacts" to make sure alliance or SF don't get in etc.
They have no interest in true democracy or equal rights and they live in a fear that if they give "them 'uns" too much they'll just push for a united ireland.
Is that not a genuine fear though as that is one of Sinn Feins main aims which they make no bones about?
Well pretty much so i dunno how it can work at all. The whole thing has always been incredibly fragile and this illustrates it.
Where we go from here who knows.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 12:04:53 PM
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Seems it's not just the loyalists who place ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems then... Seriously, if that's the level of concern, then we truly are talking first world problems.
Maguire01
It's not a ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems, it's about having the freedom to express one's cultural identity without fear of reprisals, which we have never experienced.
Just say that we have a united ireland in the morning. I would love that the Shinners et al will have the courage to afford the unionists the same, i.e. reconise their british culture and engrain it into the fabric for a 32 county Ireland -allow the UJ to fly over councils which have a unionist population etc etc
The unionists f$%Ked this up all those years ago with their zero tolerance, and still haven't got it yet, and they don't realize that they are actually aiding SF with their antics
The sooner storment falls the better. Unionisim proving once again that this is a failed state. They tried self rule and managed to fcuk that up. Direct rule and 40 years of war. Power sharing twice and fcuked that up. Whats left is a period of direct rule and a political vacuum. Take the wages off them and reduce their electrate to the poverty line via savage cuts and reduction in services. Eradicate all investni spending and remove as many of the public sector jobs as possible. Turn their precious state into an economic and political wasteland and lets see how they get on with that. Unionist grandstanding has to be dealt with and the best way is to punish those people who elect the same narrow minded people who after 20 odd years of relative peace cannot move on.
The shinners need to catch themselves on as well and put their hands up and stop worrying about perceptions tell it as it is.
IRA will continue to exist in one form or another for as long as partition exists. If they cant live with that then let the Torys do their worst. Within the next 10-15 years the UK will break up with Scotland gone the brits will have little interest in supporting an economic wasteland in the north and british idenity will be no more.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 09, 2015, 08:46:38 PM
The sooner storment falls the better. Unionisim proving once again that this is a failed state. They tried self rule and managed to fcuk that up. Direct rule and 40 years of war. Power sharing twice and fcuked that up. Whats left is a period of direct rule and a political vacuum. Take the wages off them and reduce their electrate to the poverty line via savage cuts and reduction in services. Eradicate all investni spending and remove as many of the public sector jobs as possible. Turn their precious state into an economic and political wasteland and lets see how they get on with that. Unionist grandstanding has to be dealt with and the best way is to punish those people who elect the same narrow minded people who after 20 odd years of relative peace cannot move on.
The shinners need to catch themselves on as well and put their hands up and stop worrying about perceptions tell it as it is.
IRA will continue to exist in one form or another for as long as partition exists. If they cant live with that then let the Torys do their worst. Within the next 10-15 years the UK will break up with Scotland gone the brits will have little interest in supporting an economic wasteland in the north and british idenity will be no more.
Apart from the million odd Brits living here.
It's all brinkmanship lads! The DUPs can't afford to let it fall! Some of those families would be in financial dire straits if the Stormont money wasn't coming in. There are entire DUB and UUP families (nieces, nephews, in laws, wives, cousins) who are employed in various capacities up on the hill. I'm not suggesting they aren't employed legitimately, but it is a fact. Other parties in a similar situation but not to same extent. If it does close you can guarantee it'll be reopened when the severance runs out and the mortgages are due!
You're not suggesting they aren't though ;)
Robinson trying to be a bully boy as usual. Be interesting to see how that pans out. The whole thing is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. As long as no one starts any of the shit again i, like most people, wouldn't be too bothered either way.
Alex Kane said he spent 5 years in Stormont pushing paper around the last time Stormont was suspended........on full pay! So I am sure the payments will keep coming in no matter what happens........maybe if they were stopped immediately they would get something done. On Nolan this morning he was talking about hospital waiting lists.....I know of a school where one class is getting taught in the corridor.......in another school the heating isn't working and is not getting repaired........construction and facilities firms are on the ropes.........because these people are holding the country back arguing about green and orange issues......Move ON!
They're not to be paid this time apparently...
A few posters on here said a few months ago that something like this would happen as Peter will want to distance himself from Nama investigations and imposition of welfare cuts. The Bard of Dunclug must have passed on the info.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 09, 2015, 09:43:34 PM
They're not to be paid this time apparently...
I saw earlier that MLAs would still receive 2/3 of their salary
Quote from: michaelg on September 09, 2015, 09:15:05 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on September 09, 2015, 08:46:38 PM
The sooner storment falls the better. Unionisim proving once again that this is a failed state. They tried self rule and managed to fcuk that up. Direct rule and 40 years of war. Power sharing twice and fcuked that up. Whats left is a period of direct rule and a political vacuum. Take the wages off them and reduce their electrate to the poverty line via savage cuts and reduction in services. Eradicate all investni spending and remove as many of the public sector jobs as possible. Turn their precious state into an economic and political wasteland and lets see how they get on with that. Unionist grandstanding has to be dealt with and the best way is to punish those people who elect the same narrow minded people who after 20 odd years of relative peace cannot move on.
The shinners need to catch themselves on as well and put their hands up and stop worrying about perceptions tell it as it is.
IRA will continue to exist in one form or another for as long as partition exists. If they cant live with that then let the Torys do their worst. Within the next 10-15 years the UK will break up with Scotland gone the brits will have little interest in supporting an economic wasteland in the north and british idenity will be no more.
Apart from the million odd Brits living here.
48% of 1.8 m to be exact.
If/when Scotland goes independent there will be no more British .
Wonder what ye'll call ye'reselves then?
Quote from: doodaa on September 09, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
Quote from: deiseach on September 09, 2015, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2015, 12:56:40 PM
Mike Nesbitt's position is hilarious.
He doesn't trust what SF say. But he wont move forward until he hears them say something.
He'll talk to anyone in the interests of peace, but he won't talk to Them. He's the Meat Loaf of politics.
Sure is. But the BBC love him, he is never pressed (except by Nolan) on evening extra or good morning OWC over the inconsistencies or hypocrisy of his posturing on Loyalist Paramilitaries.
Theres a Youtube clip of Tara Mills giving him a decent grilling on his hypocrisy at sitting down with terrorists. It may even have been posted on this thread.
I'm referring specifically to GMU and EVX, but I take your point on Tara.
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2015, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 12:04:53 PM
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Seems it's not just the loyalists who place ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems then... Seriously, if that's the level of concern, then we truly are talking first world problems.
I am old enough to know that things for nationalists have improved. But a state should reflect its people this one doesn't and yes it is important, not in the loyalist sense of down your throat but in a sense of fairness.
Election soon?? ???
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Proper joint authority - not a token Dubliner sitting at the back in the odd meeting.
I'd also push to remove the complete and utter insult by Dublin that has NI being dealt with under foreign affairs.
I used to be fairly interested in the politics here but I usually switch over now when the local news comes on
Robinson has resigned
Foster taking over temporarily!
Quote from: Orior on September 10, 2015, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Proper joint authority - not a token Dubliner sitting at the back in the odd meeting.
I'd also push to remove the complete and utter insult by Dublin that has NI being dealt with under foreign affairs.
Think this is the way it's going. That was a farce up on the hill, all pigs in the trough and no attempt by unionists to live with the native people as equals. They're so thick they don't realise this will inevitably lead to a bigger say by Dublin as British disengagement increases ... a good day as it means the end of Robinson, forced to resign after being bounced into it and made look an idiot by, of all people, Mike Nesbitt.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Would Dublin pay half the bills?
Quote from: michaelg on September 10, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Would Dublin pay half the bills?
Maybe they would if they where getting half the tax revenues that disappear off to London and arent credited to NI
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2015, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 12:04:53 PM
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Seems it's not just the loyalists who place ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems then... Seriously, if that's the level of concern, then we truly are talking first world problems.
I am old enough to know that things for nationalists have improved. But a state should reflect its people this one doesn't and yes it is important, not in the loyalist sense of down your throat but in a sense of fairness.
Flegs and emblems an important enough factor to determine whether you're happy to live in one jurisdiction over another?
Quote from: michaelg on September 10, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
I hope not Stormont is a failed experiment, time for joint authority only way.
Would Dublin pay half the bills?
You wouldn't mind paying off German Bank losses, sure you wouldn't?
Jeez
Just when Nama enquiry was getting interesting.
As an aside have to say I wonder who is feeding Jamie the info
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 10, 2015, 06:00:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2015, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 12:04:53 PM
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Seems it's not just the loyalists who place ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems then... Seriously, if that's the level of concern, then we truly are talking first world problems.
I am old enough to know that things for nationalists have improved. But a state should reflect its people this one doesn't and yes it is important, not in the loyalist sense of down your throat but in a sense of fairness.
Flegs and emblems an important enough factor to determine whether you're happy to live in one jurisdiction over another?
What can I say Maguire, some people have the wrong priorities in life...
Alot more important to me is wether the realm I live in involves having to listen to Monaghan or Derry people. You need a few around to watch their reactions to another Tyrone hammering but too many makes everyday life intolerable.
Quote from: naka on September 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Jeez
Just when Nama enquiry was getting interesting.
As an aside have to say I wonder who is feeding Jamie the info
Junior??
Robbo has not resigned he has "stepped aside". The most interesting line in his statement was the bit about Foster staying on as Finance Minister in order that Nationalists and Republicans I.e. Catholics, could not make any financial decisions that would be to the detriment of NI. Meaning?? Those darn irresponsible Taigs can't be trusted with the money. Probably as insulting as his line about Muslims but sure he gets away with it.
I see Mr Storey released without any charge.
Seems the remnants of the RUC up to old tricks influencing the Political scene.
They should never have appointed one of them as Chief Constable, should have gone for another English Cop.
Quote from: Pub Bore on September 10, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Robbo has not resigned he has "stepped aside". The most interesting line in his statement was the bit about Foster staying on as Finance Minister in order that Nationalists and Republicans I.e. Catholics, could not make any financial decisions that would be to the detriment of NI. Meaning?? Those darn irresponsible Taigs can't be trusted with the money. Probably as insulting as his line about Muslims but sure he gets away with it.
I thought that line stood out alright, like the children that can't be left in charge
Quote from: Pub Bore on September 10, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Robbo has not resigned he has "stepped aside". The most interesting line in his statement was the bit about Foster staying on as Finance Minister in order that Nationalists and Republicans I.e. Catholics, could not make any financial decisions that would be to the detriment of NI. Meaning?? Those darn irresponsible Taigs can't be trusted with the money. Probably as insulting as his line about Muslims but sure he gets away with it.
As Foster is acting first minster she can then hand the role back to Petey when it suits them, rather than leaving it all behind them.
Maybe then someone could have put some pressure on the P.M. society to pay back their loans that their 2 yrs behind.
What a surprise, those shinners were released
Quote from: Rossfan on September 10, 2015, 07:09:29 PM
I see Mr Storey released without any charge.
Seems the remnants of the RUC up to old tricks influencing the Political scene.
They should never have appointed one of them as Chief Constable, should have gone for another English Cop.
Yep, I wonder will the Indo apologise for the shit they spouted today? ::)
Quote from: Pub Bore on September 10, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Robbo has not resigned he has "stepped aside". The most interesting line in his statement was the bit about Foster staying on as Finance Minister in order that Nationalists and Republicans I.e. Catholics, could not make any financial decisions that would be to the detriment of NI. Meaning?? Those darn irresponsible Taigs can't be trusted with the money. Probably as insulting as his line about Muslims but sure he gets away with it.
I just saw that there, what a **** of a man.
Quote from: An Watcher on September 10, 2015, 09:25:07 PM
What a surprise, those shinners were released
Storey was the only Shinner, Eddie Copeland could probably be described as a "business man" now..........
A mere charade, all of this. Part of me is lad the Executive will collapse, those f**kers up there want nothing to do with running a region for the betterment of the people, it's all about squabbling and f**king over the other side so you get elected again the next time round. The mistrust, hate and vitrol has been ever present since the start of the troubles continues unabated, the only difference is that is no longer mirrored by violence.
The attitudes remain unabashed. "The prods have all the best things and look after only themselves"/"The taigs are out to undermine and ruin us". It's a pity because 70-80% of the people in the North manage to get on with their lives, paying no heed to the politics of the prods/taigs they work for/with, live beside and do business with.
Alot of spite on here for Mike Nesbitt. I think he has played this one brilliantly, didn't know he had the smarts to do it.
Don't get me wrong, he's a complete charlatan who doesn't give a fcuk what drug pusher or provo gets shot in Belfast but he's put a charge on the DUP and caught them broadside. I'd say he's won serious kudos from those hardliners who drifted over to the DUP in the early 2000's. Collapses an Assembly that's stagnating and no-one gives a f**k about, sticks a knife in the DUP and Sinn Fein and strengthens his hand ahead of elections in the near future. It's political black arts at it's finest. Selfish, undemocratic and morally corrupt, yes but as political maneuvering goes it's genius.
I see Adams there today.
Should he not be down in Louth where he is getting paid to represent his constituents !
Quote from: trileacman on September 10, 2015, 10:59:51 PM
Alot of spite on here for Mike Nesbitt. I think he has played this one brilliantly, didn't know he had the smarts to do it.
Don't get me wrong, he's a complete charlatan who doesn't give a fcuk what drug pusher or provo gets shot in Belfast but he's put a charge on the DUP and caught them broadside. I'd say he's won serious kudos from those hardliners who drifted over to the DUP in the early 2000's. Collapses an Assembly that's stagnating and no-one gives a f**k about, sticks a knife in the DUP and Sinn Fein and strengthens his hand ahead of elections in the near future. It's political black arts at it's finest. Selfish, undemocratic and morally corrupt, yes but as political maneuvering goes it's genius.
I wouldn,t get to carried away with Nesbitt's brilliance, he is a failed TV presenter, a failed property developer, and I believe he's on his way to becoming a failed politician.
There is something about therese villiers ...........
Mmmmm
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 10, 2015, 06:00:24 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 10, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on September 09, 2015, 07:49:11 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 09, 2015, 12:04:53 PM
There is no doubt that people within SF are still also in or connected to the IRA. SF need to ensure that these people choose one or t'other otherwise Unionists will continue to throw it in their faces. I think it is time both the SDLP and SF left Stormont. They gave it a shot but the fact remains that Unionists are not prepared to accommodate anything other than Unionist rule. They are not prepared to grant any sort of equality within the Northern State to those of us who consider ourselves Irish. It will eventually be the undoing of that same state as Unionist hardliners repeat the mistakes of the past. Truth is may nationalists my self included would be happy within the UK if we had any sort of recognition officially of Irish Flags and Emblems and an enhanced Island identity.
Seems it's not just the loyalists who place ridiculous importance on flegs and emblems then... Seriously, if that's the level of concern, then we truly are talking first world problems.
I am old enough to know that things for nationalists have improved. But a state should reflect its people this one doesn't and yes it is important, not in the loyalist sense of down your throat but in a sense of fairness.
Flegs and emblems an important enough factor to determine whether you're happy to live in one jurisdiction over another?
Look this is our country too why should we move? The state should reflect the identity of all its citizens and not just one section.
Foster lets the unionist mask slip...rogue and renegade nationalists and republicans. You can't have a taig about the house the family silver would disappear.
Quote from: ashman on September 11, 2015, 01:33:11 AM
There is something about therese villiers ...........
Mmmmm
Think you've had too many shandies
Quote from: upthehoops on September 11, 2015, 08:37:38 AM
Quote from: ashman on September 11, 2015, 01:33:11 AM
There is something about therese villiers ...........
Mmmmm
Think you've had too many shandies
I don't know now...
Christ Adams was poor on GMU this morning, time to retire.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 11, 2015, 08:16:11 AM
Foster lets the unionist mask slip...rogue and renegade nationalists and republicans. You can't have a taig about the house the family silver would disappear.
Quite, shame on Mark Carruthers (and Alban Maginness) for not calling her out on it but that attitude is ingrained in most Unionists, even "moderates" and in the allegedly impartial BBCNI. Fair play to Deirdre Heenan for bringing it up and Kelly for highlighting her nasty bigotry (and people call her a moderate!). The DUP would trust a Muslim to go to the shops for them but they wouldn't even trust a Taig to do that. This is how far we've come since the GFA...in other words we haven't progressed at all.
For the poster who called TV Mike a political genius, his performance on The View last night was embarrassing. Even Prof Rick Wilford called it a car crash.
Quote from: ashman on September 11, 2015, 01:33:11 AM
There is something about therese villiers ...........
Mmmmm
(http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/0/7/7/8/1/3/yepp-51699800621.jpeg)
It's been interesting that the hokey-cokey has been invoked by Unionists as a term of abuse. Robinson accused the UUP of doing it on Tuesday and Danny Kennedy accused the DUP of doing it yesterday.Even Gerry Adams got in on the game this morning accusing the Unionists of behaving like they were at Lannigan's ball. When I was a minor footballer breaking in to the senior team and attending my first club dinner dance, being accomplished in the hokey-cokey was a recognised pathway to the first fifteen.
https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xlf1/v/t42.1790-2/11987662_1658737707701320_2004279486_n.mp4?oh=5d9515381b30ff1e40013adb3953ba8c&oe=55F353DE
;D pished myself there
Quote from: Dubh driocht on September 11, 2015, 08:23:45 PM
It's been interesting that the hokey-cokey has been invoked by Unionists as a term of abuse. Robinson accused the UUP of doing it on Tuesday and Danny Kennedy accused the DUP of doing it yesterday.Even Gerry Adams got in on the game this morning accusing the Unionists of behaving like they were at Lannigan's ball. When I was a minor footballer breaking in to the senior team and attending my first club dinner dance, being accomplished in the hokey-cokey was a recognised pathway to the first fifteen.
Aye, but do the unionists shake it all about?
Question is if Stormont does fall,will be be any better off? I doubt it,with the British Govt (alongside their Dublin puppets) running amok knowing there's no votes at risk.
In that event the Brits will be pulling a lot of plugs from the 6 Cos.
Ye'll be in some fix then.
It is time those of us who describe ourselves as Nationalists and Republicans wake up to the fact that Unionists don't want to share power. They still do not trust the fenians and when you look at how they behave in councils where they have a majority we would do well not to trust them. They were paranoid to begin with but the tide of demographics threatens to turn their largest minority status into a real minority with a nationalist (small n) majority. The absolute rank hypocrisy of them standing shoulder to shoulder with the UDA/UVF/OO and equivocating on violence should says all we need to know. SF and the SDLP should have the balls to collapse Stormont and push for joint authority, then in five years are so when the Shinners in government in the Dail are calling the shots perhaps unionists will see the error of their ways...or perhaps not.
Shinners won't be calling the shots in the Dàil in 5 years ;)
They are only fielding 46 candidates this time round and will do well to get 30 in.
As the economy will have 5 more years of recovery by 2021 the SF mantra of being against everything will be somewhat irrelevant.
As for Stormont - are Senior " Security" elements trying to get Unionists to pull the plug?
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 15, 2015, 09:18:05 AM
It is time those of us who describe ourselves as Nationalists and Republicans wake up to the fact that Unionists don't want to share power. They still do not trust the fenians and when you look at how they behave in councils where they have a majority we would do well not to trust them. They were paranoid to begin with but the tide of demographics threatens to turn their largest minority status into a real minority with a nationalist (small n) majority. The absolute rank hypocrisy of them standing shoulder to shoulder with the UDA/UVF/OO and equivocating on violence should says all we need to know. SF and the SDLP should have the balls to collapse Stormont and push for joint authority, then in five years are so when the Shinners in government in the Dail are calling the shots perhaps unionists will see the error of their ways...or perhaps not.
Shinners should be pushing for a new Stormont election as Mike TV and Jim Allister may take enough seats off the DUP for the Shinners to be the main party in there, as the SDLP haven't really done enough as yet to dent the Sinn Fein vote.
Mike will try and steal a lot of the hardline votes from the DUP, its whether he can still bring the blue rinse UUP vote along with him that remains to be seen, but he'll certainly splinter the PUL vote enough to take some seats although he may do his usual pacts to keep the croppies down in others.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 15, 2015, 09:33:56 AM
Shinners won't be calling the shots in the Dàil in 5 years ;)
They are only fielding 46 candidates this time round and will do well to get 30 in.
As the economy will have 5 more years of recovery by 2021 the SF mantra of being against everything will be somewhat irrelevant.
As for Stormont - are Senior " Security" elements trying to get Unionists to pull the plug?
Don't be so quick to dismiss the shinners in the south, five more years of decontamination and even with 15 or 20 TD's someone is likely to need them to form a government. I'm not so sure that recovery is as strong anywhere in Europe as you think either. Russia and China have the potential to plunge the global economy further into crisis at any time. As for the security elements, I don't know the arrest of Storey looked foolish and SF where very sure he would be released.
Looks like there isn't much hope of these two parties working together again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34473477
The barely concealed mask slips bigtime, the vitriol with which he was saying this was very telling.
Last night was as heated a debate I've seen in a long time, the DUP mask slipped, and Poots and co. were shown for what they are, they don't want a catholic about the place and that is clear for all to see. The fact that Sinn Fein have a massive mandate to be there, and are likely to increase that mandate at the next assembly elections, DUP and Unionists are seriously worried about the potential for a Sinn Fein First Minister. The message that this will send out to their electorate could do both parties long term damage. The writing is on the wall for Unionism, this place has changed considerably, the tide of demographics are against them, and we can expect continued erratic behavior from unionism as it tries to adjust to the inevitable reality that it must one day face.
It was a sad day for Unionism when David Irvine died.
If SImon Hamilton doesn't want his children to grow up in the environment of the 80s and 90s maybe he should change party because those people seem like they would like to bring us back to dark days again.
It's the only environment they would ever survive in. Nothing but sectarian bigots.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2015, 02:18:59 PM
If SImon Hamilton doesn't want his children to grow up in the environment of the 80s and 90s maybe he should change party because those people seem like they would like to bring us back to dark days again.
It's the only environment they would ever survive in. Nothing but sectarian bigots.
Why are the last 25 years the only bad years?
SF obviously can say very little to counter that rhetoric, without sounding like the usual knee-jerk response, but the SDLP or Alliance surely can. Why are they silent on this myopic view of recent history? Surely the middle of road parties can provide balance, otherwise what the hell are they there for?
Totally agree Muppet.
http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/there-was-trouble-in-stormont-today-over-northern-ireland-and-republic-of-irelands-euro-2016-qualifiers/43230 (http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/there-was-trouble-in-stormont-today-over-northern-ireland-and-republic-of-irelands-euro-2016-qualifiers/43230)
Probably for the wtf thread...
Quote from: muppet on October 08, 2015, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2015, 02:18:59 PM
If SImon Hamilton doesn't want his children to grow up in the environment of the 80s and 90s maybe he should change party because those people seem like they would like to bring us back to dark days again.
It's the only environment they would ever survive in. Nothing but sectarian bigots.
Why are the last 25 years the only bad years?
SF obviously can say very little to counter that rhetoric, without sounding like the usual knee-jerk response, but the SDLP or Alliance surely can. Why are they silent on this myopic view of recent history? Surely the middle of road parties can provide balance, otherwise what the hell are they there for?
Yep you are bang on. Long etc have their chance to stand up and be counted.
McDonnell seems to be AWOL these days. When I say these days maybe I mean these years and he's supposed to be a party leader.