Who in your opinion is most talented ulster player of last 20 years?
Personally i think it is down's greg blaney..
I would have placed Blaney as Brainey and talented, but Brain and brawn also played a major part in his game.
In terms of natural skills now that we have moved on from the Frank Mc guigan era and probably inclusive of this era, for his application and consistency of talent there can only be one winner, step forward in Armagh they have the bard of Armagh in Tyrone we have the bane of Armagh "Peter the great Canavan"
Yip I agree, in fairness threads like this are like arseholes everyones got one in them. Its an excuse to get a windup going or just lazy posting inc my reply.
In no particular order:
p canavan
a cush
j treanor
d marsden
h downey
m mchugh
a scullion
e hughes
Quote from: ONeill on November 19, 2006, 10:55:15 AM
Cue the anti-Ulster board campaigners!
Sure isn't Ulster a great wee province all the same.
Probably Greg Blaney, but John 'Shorty' Treanor must be up there - a classic flawed genius
Shorty was a genius with the ball, yet lacking in one of the most important commodities necessary to make it at the highest level - A SET OF BALLS. Blaney - all time great.
Overall, would have to be Canavan. Doesn't mean the likes of Blaney and McHugh weren't tremendously gifted players though, or that Canavan didn't practice relentlessly to sharpen and improve his skills (I'm assuming he did - maybe he didn't need to!).
maurice fitz
stephen o brien
kevin o brien
paul curren
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 19, 2006, 04:43:09 PM
Since we have lost Stew and none of the Harps crew have leapt in, it is up to me as his schoolmate at Greenpark CBS to nominated Jonny Corvan as the most naturally talented in Armagh. Unfortunately, his talent was largely badly managed and lost. Even the College boys would agree with Corvan's nomination as the most naturally talented Armagh player.
I have nothing further to add!
On second thoughts I have - if we are talking natural talent only, then Corvan has no peer in Ulster! Simple as that! 8)
Forgive my Monaghan bias but surely Eugene "Nudie" Hughes has to be the most naturally gifted. Of the three allstars he won – one was at corner back (1979) and two were at corner forward (1985 and 1988). As this demonstrates an ability to excel at both ends of the pitch and not merely in a specific position, I believe Nudie to be the most gifted. No other player has achieved this as far as I'm aware.
Quotethe bane of Armagh "Peter the great Canavan"
Hardly, for the vast majority of his career he failed to score from play against us. I would consider O'Neill much more of a "bane" than Costeau.
For pure talent it is hard to look past Maurice Fitz
Maurice Fitz definitely.
Paddy "Power" Joyce
Michael Donnellan
Kieran McDonald
Declan Browne
Rory Gallagher
Dessie Dolan
Maurice Fitz by a country mile
QuoteHardly, for the vast majority of his career he failed to score from play against us.
Surely for the majority of his career Armagh weren't around for him to score against?
Is it only recently that Armagh were founded? ::)
QuoteSurely for the majority of his career Armagh weren't around for him to score against?
if that's the case how can he have been the "bane" of Armagh? ::)
Padraig Brogan - never made the most of his talent though
Yes, it is one of these recurring topics and like the last time it came up my answer would still be the same.
Anthony Tohill.
The player had great all round attributes - fielding, kicking, defending and attacking.
Yes, Peter's skill level at turning, twisting and tormenting was second to none but big Ant had that little bit more to offer.
A competely subjective opinion,apologies for the Down and Ulster bias:
P.Canavan----despite relatively small stature,he has been the most effective player of his generation.
G.Blaney--the ultimate combination of brain and brawn.
F.McGuigan--natural ability in spades,but apparent lack of application led to underachievement.
J.McCartan-in late teens,early 20s brought a level of excitement unparallelled by anyone
M.Connor -ruthless finishing,especially under pressure.
B.Mason--star of the show in otherwise limited Down teams,brought Loughinisland to championship victory in an extremely competitive era of club football in Down(Burren etc.).
Ignoring the fact that Ulster is the centre of the universe, it's hard to see past Matt Connor and Maurice Fitz, though I'd have a soft spot for John Egan too.
Quote from: OkeyDoke on November 20, 2006, 10:07:08 AM
Padraig Brogan - never made the most of his talent though
Legend
QuoteIgnoring the fact that Ulster is the centre of the universe,
You see Billy, this thread was for the most naturally gifted in the last 20 years and we all know football only began whenever Down beat the meath dogs in 1991 ;)
Anyroads, Matt Connor, maurice fitz, Canavan, fat Corkery, and myself in my pomp ;D
Naturally talented....easy Fitz
BC1, Did you play full back in your underage days with the Rangers?
No full back, I was always the devastingly skillful attacking midfielder/forward, and a consummate liar too ;D
As the thread relates to Ulster players in the last 20 years and refers to natural talent rather than achievement or consistency I would have no hesitation in putting forward Ger Cavlan, certainly the most naturally talented player I have seen play for my own coounty (never seen Frank McGuigan live). Unfortunately Ger's achievements and consistency have fallen short of his ability but when on form an absolute joy to watch. Even last season I mind a point against Armagh at Casement Park scored from near the corner flag.
recently
Stevie O'Neill in top form is a joy to watch
Brian Mc Guigan, remember watching him for Dungannon Acadamey when they won the Hogan, always thought he'd be too light to make the grade at senior inter county level but boy was I wrong. An absolute class act
stevie from Killeavey - fantastic footballer
Mc Donald on form again ye'd pay any money to watch him
Gooch - beautiful natural talent, he just caresses the ball over the bar
QuoteAnyroads, Matt Connor, maurice fitz, Canavan, fat Corkery, and myself in my pomp
Thanks for the bellylaugh BC! :P Are ye sure the 'fat' is in the right place in the sentence there?
Canavan in Ulster based on players I've seen, but Maurice Fitz by a long long way in the national stakes. Privileged to have been around in the same era as Maurice so I can always say I saw him play. Legend, pure class.
Aidan Connolly of Baileborough and Cavan has to go down on this list... a supremely talented footballer.
Ballyhaise man...thats just embarrassing...ur street cred has just dried up
ask your fellow Derryman Lynchbhoy
exactly how good Aidan Connolly was when he wanted to be...
Ballyhaise man...Are you serious..lynchboy a converted Cavan supporter...a man..who tried to talk me into thinking fat Geoffrey was a brilliant footballer and the reason why he did not make it at county footballer was because of five managers who did not recognise his lazy fat ass. No thanks Lynchboy is hardly a reference :-\ Ballyhaise man think...Fitz..Peter the great...Matt Connor ...Aidan Connelly :o Typical cavan waster. Doesnt fit in the same hyber space never mind planet.
Max
i never said Connolly was at the same standard as Maurice Fitz,Canavan or Matt Connor... Few are or will every reach that level
Connolly had outstanding ability though and could have been the dominant centre half back in Ulster in the late nineties,If he,to have had the dedication and determination.
In fairness Ballyhaise, thats a ridiculous suggestion.
Embarrassing actually... If you HAD to name a token Cavan player I'd go for Larry Reilly or Pierson. Connolly I think is the only defender even named on this thread!
Larry Reily or Pierson.....
First of all Larry Reily has done nothing in the Ulster Championship for Cavan in about 5 years....
Gerard Pierson is supremely talented and has shone in the league but bar one performance against Donegal after the league final when he kicked around 10 points mostly from frees...He done nothing.
So in future when trying to ridicule my suggestion,It would probably be better if you didnt make an even worse one in the process.
Declan McCrossan was a very talented lad. What's he up to now?
Dermot McNicholl
Martin Clarke
Martin McHugh
O'Neill... Mc Nicholl and shkill should not be put in the same sentence....speed ...lots of it...power, strenght, balls and guts, ambition is what mc Nicholl was about. As much skill as a rhino in a china shop.
QuoteThanks for the bellylaugh BC! Are ye sure the 'fat' is in the right place in the sentence there?
Billy I am deeply offended. I am just well rounded and big boned :P
Ignoring the stupidity of limiting this thread to Ulster I would have to go for Maurice Fitz. Every day you see him he astounds you. I still cannot get over some of the thnigs I saw him do the last time I saw him 12 months ago. No-one I've seen comes close to him in terms of natural talent.
declan mc crossan still plays for his club, and is still a great player. Good athlete and brilliant left foot. Opted out of tyrone panel at start of 2004, got married and built a house. Hes pretty young yet, dont think he would be older than 26/27
Declan McCrossan :D You should take up Stand up.
Being too young to watch his skills and only seen county final videos, the person that everyone in Armagh talks about in football is Jonny Corvan, no matter what the conversation is Corvan is always brought up every weekend in every pub, not to mention being a v good Hurler/soccerer.
The man that announced his retirement from inter-county football at the weekend was surely, physically, the most consumately gifted player of his era. Had pace, fielding ability, was adept off either foot, had good vision, was a great reader of the game etc. Galway may not ever see his likes again.
Its hard to nail this down to one player, so im not going to try. In no particular order : Anthony Tohill, Peter Canavan, Maurice Fitzgerald & Greg Blaney. Rarely did i witness any of these men having a bad game for their respective counties. Fabulous talent in different ways.
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 20, 2006, 05:11:18 PM
declan mc crossan still plays for his club, and is still a great player. Good athlete and brilliant left foot. Opted out of tyrone panel at start of 2004, got married and built a house. Hes pretty young yet, dont think he would be older than 26/27
Im not suggesting McCrossan is anywhere near the most naturally talented player Ive ever seen (though incidentally he would be by some distance the best player I personally ever played against, had to mark him once in a Scottish Universities match) but its a shame he opted off the Tyrone panel a few years back, he could have been a key man for many seasons and would probably still make it onto most county panels in Ireland. Unlucky for him that Philip Jordan came along at the same time.
Hard to say who the most naturally talented player is because you dont really know who has the natural talent and who has worked their backside off to improve but suppose Canavan must be a contender and I love watching Brian McGuigan play when he is at his best. Donnellan in 98 too, fantastic.
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 20, 2006, 05:01:07 PM
Ignoring the stupidity of limiting this thread to Ulster I would have to go for Maurice Fitz. Every day you see him he astounds you. I still cannot get over some of the thnigs I saw him do the last time I saw him 12 months ago. No-one I've seen comes close to him in terms of natural talent.
Nail on the head
Donnellan was superb, Tohill the best footballing midfielder of his era, Jacko on a par there imo though
Maurice fitz was as brilliant and as elegant at 19 as he was later on in his career - and a gentleman.
Ballyhaise - Although folks laugh, Connolly was a superb footbaler, but more of a stopper - though I will admit a natural at that position. Cavan folk who never saw him at their best will never realise how much they missed out on.
Max - the Derry malaise continues, this year we have yet another manager who couldnt spell tactics let alone use them. Derry have to realise it is no longer 1940 and the long ball 'let it in high to the full forward' trick doesnt really work any more.
With the right supply, Geoff would have been a match winner.
Sure Derry are still refusing the kick the ball properly into Paddy B and any man in the full forward line, and our results speak for themselves. IMO the players are not to blame. Tyrone have won two all Irelands with less talented players.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on November 20, 2006, 10:26:53 PM
Max - the Derry malaise continues, this year we have yet another manager who couldnt spell tactics let alone use them. Derry have to realise it is no longer 1940 and the long ball 'let it in high to the full forward' trick doesnt really work any more.
With the right supply, Geoff would have been a match winner.
Sure Derry are still refusing the kick the ball properly into Paddy B and any man in the full forward line, and our results speak for themselves. IMO the players are not to blame. Tyrone have won two all Irelands with less talented players.
No offence Lynchboy, but that is absolute bullshit. Tyrone had loads more talented players than Derry during those two All-Ireland wins - O'Neill, Cavanagh, McGuigan, Canavan, Jordan to name but a few
How many Derry players would make a full strength Tyrone starting team?
I'd say the full back(name escapes me!), Paddy Bradley, Fergal Doherty, McFlynn if he was fit maybe...
There's not too many in fairness. Oak Leaf tinted spectacles there Lynchbhoy...
QuoteOak Leaf tinted spectacles
The mind boggles!
Oisin Mc conville..
Eye for a score, cool under pressure, ability to always find space... His record speaks for itself!
Derry players on tyrone team
Kevin Mc Guckain
SM Lockhart
Niall Mc Cusker if fit
F Doherty
Eoin Bradley
Enda Muldoon
Paddy Bradley
There is also question marks over Tyrones strenght in depth after last season.Only O Neill, Dooher, Cavanagh, D Harte, Gormley, Mc Guigan and Mc Menamin are of any worth
OK I mentioned Derry
Hard for you to accept. I have been saying the same thing for about a year and other examples were Dublin and Mayo.
This time last year most people would have laughed at the notion of Dublin or Mayo being strong teams.
There is only one side in Ireland that imo they have 15-20 top notch footballers - Kerry.
The rest have a mix of great & good players and a smattering of out and out athletes.
This was enough to win Tyrone and Armagh the all Ireland titles.
To go back to the topic of the thread,the current Kerry football side are almost all naturally talented.
the same cannot be said for the bulk of all other county teams.
:)
Jimmy Keavney. The talent shown out past the beer belly. He was the most naturally talented footballer without a doubt. If he had quit the drink and applied himself to his sport, God only knows what he could have achieved.
Quote from: Springfield on November 21, 2006, 01:45:01 PM
There is also question marks over Tyrones strenght in depth after last season.Only O Neill, Dooher, Cavanagh, D Harte, Gormley, Mc Guigan and Mc Menamin are of any worth
Thats not fair to be honest, no team in Ireland could have lost as many key players as Tyrone did this summer and not suffered, its not about strength in depth when youre missing so many leaders.
Surprising also to suggest the likes of Philip Jordan, Eoin Mulligan, Enda McGinley and Joe McMahon are not of any worth. Im sure there are plenty teams who would love to have these worthless players on their team ;D
the only argument is the order
M donnellan(and maybe for natural talent John too)
M fitz
p canavan
Pspillane
J oshea
Dara ose
Lots of good suggestions, but my answer to the question in terms of skill alone, not achievement or longevity, would be,
Peter Canavan
Greg Blaney
Seamus Downey
Martin Mc Hugh
Cormac Mc Anallan
James Mc Cartan
Tony Boyle
Of those Canavan and Blaney above the rest. Hard to seperate, one the master provider, one the master finisher
Don't mean to speak ill of the dead Bensars, but what McAnallen achieved in the game was testimony to hard work, intelligence and application, and not natural talent. To even mention him in the same thread as players like Canavan or Blaney is wrong.
And quite where you plucked Seamus Downey out of, I just don't know.
Put your helmet on Wobbs!!!
Quote from: thewobbler on November 22, 2006, 10:11:47 AM
Don't mean to speak ill of the dead Bensars, but what McAnallen achieved in the game was testimony to hard work, intelligence and application, and not natural talent. To even mention him in the same thread as players like Canavan or Blaney is wrong.
And quite where you plucked Seamus Downey out of, I just don't know.
your some knob. You have the check to come on and critique an opinion but dont post your own selection.
Just looked at your previous posts and it seems you are a self appointted know all on all subjects.
Cormac did have a natural talent that was also harnessed with a hell of a lot of work and effort. Thats the difference why he made it to the top while a lot of natural skilled lazy players dont. In relation to seamus downey, he was a great player but for a dodgy knee and could have achieved possibly a lot more.
This is only my opinion, i respect the others who have posted their opinions and certainly will no lower my self at cheap shots.
Bensars, i tend to agree with wobbler on this. McAnallan was a hard working, clever player and a great leader but was not one of the most naturally gifted players. There is nothing wrong in saying that, he had other talents that many other players do not have. He was the type of player who rarely made mistakes but rarely did anything that would make you catch your breath and say wow. To me a naturally gifted player is the sort of player who could do things that would make you want to watch them over and over again, and McAnallan in my opinion was not one of those players.
As for Downey, he was a slimmer and fitter version of me and I am definitely not naturally gifted.
come on now bensars. cormac was an exceptional footballer but not an exceptionally talented one. he worked extremely hard and was very adaptable. i would say the best thing about cormac's game was that he always seemed to take the right option in posession.
I'll get me Coat
downey wasnt as dirty as you bc!! he hadnt those elbows sharpened quite like you had!! ;D
I am getting fed up with this constant digs at me about being dirty. I am a very misunderstood player by referees and have had one or two indiscretions which have tainted my reputation. The deftness of my touch and my lightning pace were always my greatest attributes :P
Bensars, sorry I thought the title of this thread was "most naturally talented", not players who made it to the top through hard work and effort. If that makes me come across as a self appointed know it all, so be it.
The most naturally talented players I've seen have all been mentioned on this thread. In no particular order: Ja Fallon, Kieran McDonald, Colm Cooper, Maurice Fitzgerald, Peter Canavan, Greg Blaney, Brian McGuigan, James McCartan, Diarmuid Marsden, Padraig Joyce, Oisin McConville, Eamon O'Hara, Colm O'Rourke, Larry Tompkins, Martin McHugh, Pat Spillane, Michael Donnellan.
Other players who made me go 'wow', but I wouldn't quite put in the league of those above include Greg McCartan, Anthony Tohill, Mickey Linden, Trevor Giles, Darragh O Se, Ray McCarron, Tommy Dowd, Ger Houlihan, Joe Brolly, Tony Boyle, Bernie Flynn, Paddy Bradley, Dessie Dolan, Declan Brown, Mattie Forde, Raymie Gallagher, Dermot McCabe, Sean Cavanagh.
Ah c'mon BC1 - granted some of your flicks and deft touches to the wee man, crow and Oisin were excellent and resulted in plenty of scores but lightning speed!! I had you down as more of a man whose stamina shone ;)
Back to Bensars - Not being anything close to an expert but I find it astounding you find fit not to include Maurice Fitz in that list.I think even Stevie Wonder once commented on his talent
Quote from: goldenyears on November 22, 2006, 11:24:27 AM
downey wasnt as dirty as you bc!! he hadnt those elbows sharpened quite like you had!! ;D
I have played against both men, BC-Clumsily aggressive. Downey (note Hurling match) Dirty Bas'*@d.
Quote from: full back on November 22, 2006, 11:44:18 AM
Back to Bensars - Not being anything close to an expert but I find it astounding you find fit not to include Maurice Fitz in that list.I think even Stevie Wonder once commented on his talent
Can i refer to the person who started the thread and the question posed within that initial posting.
May i also draw your attention to the bit in it that refers to Ulster ?
Not being anything close to an expert myself, and correct me if im wrong here, but was the aforementioned Mr. Fitzgerald not a native of county Kerry ? ???
Fair enough wobbler i accept your points
Bensars,
My apologies regarding Ulster. I thought you were following the general gist of the thread, which seems to have gone on to talent in Ireland. :'( ::)
BC-Clumsily aggressive
are you gonna take that BC? an insult in my book!
If that is all I have been called over the years I would be happy ;D They couldn't get me on the pitch so they try to hurt me from behind the safety of their computer screens. I am happy to be a successful, clumsy, aggressive player :D
It wasn't an insult, in a way I was backing you up. Your highly succesful tactic enabled you to use your physique to win a lot of ball and then lay off and a lot of contact was made (mostly with smaller opposition) occasionly leading to the odd elbow.
Also I was merely highlighting my rough acquaintance with Seamus Downey who was referred as not as dirty as you.
BC is goldenyears your new bodygaurd ;)
Jaysus BC, you can't even stay out of rows in cyberspace. :P
Spirit he is repaying me for looking after him over the years!
Billy, it is in me to argue.
Sorry to break up your argument, but Canavan has to be no 1. But i'm thinkin of a guy that had talent to burn and he could have been one of the best footballers to ever come out of Down only his head was up his ASS "Ciaran McCabe", seriously he had the talent.. (and thats not his girlfriend i'm talking about) :)
Has to be Canavan for me, he consistently did the business over the longest period of time with both club and county as well as battling with a few bad injuries.
Brian Mcguigan ranks up there too - no coincidence that in every team where he has been the focal point won everything in sight.
Maurice Fitz was supremely talented too but didnt see eough of him in the flesh.
Henry Downey was a class act also had the grear ability of contolling the game from centre half back
Is Brokencrossbar1 the legendary cross full forward Gavin Cumiskey that supplied the flights to Jim etc, etc?
Booo
Get your lawyer ready!
No I'm Sparticus!!
I am Spartacus
I'm Sparatacus
Ego sum Sparticus
Here crossbar the monkey (jim mc conville) was some footballer. I would rate him highier than oisin. I remember watching him one day up in Cross in the Ulster against Burren. It was a real bollox of a day wind, rain helicopters the lot. The ball was lobbed into the square and wee jim lept like a salmon above them all to fist it over the bar in the dying minutes. He also gave a defender a headlight that day. Shorty trainor was playing for burren, he was on free taking duties.
I remember being Scotstown last year with my brother at the Monaghan vs. Kerry league game. Before the game we were surveying the Kerry players during their warm-up as this was the first time we'd seen them live. A stray ball rolled out over the sideline in front of us and Colm Cooper trotted over to retrieve it. My brother remarked that there wasn't an ounce on him and he only looked like a cub. Cooper then turned and, from the right hand touchline about 30 metres out, he bent the ball over the bar with the outside of his left boot. Unbelievable. He kicked the winning point in the game too so that shut us up.
"Forgive my Monaghan bias but surely Eugene "Nudie" Hughes has to be the most naturally gifted. Of the three allstars he won – one was at corner back (1979) and two were at corner forward (1985 and 1988). As this demonstrates an ability to excel at both ends of the pitch and not merely in a specific position."
have to agree with Charlie
Enda Muldoon. Frank McGuigan. Take your pick.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9ZufwO5tU
watch benny coulters goal in this game
It has to be Peter Canavan especialyl as he's one of the most decorated players in the game's history and he is considered one of the great players of the last twenty years by commentators such as John Haughey of the BBC !!
Great goal by Coulter.
Is that definetly U-16s? looks more lie minors.
defos under sixteens, he is only 25!!! he was streets ahead!!!!
Was that the goal right after the "commentator" was complaining about them not wearing the right numbers in midfield?
Great goal.
thats the one, Patsy Russell is "the Voice" in county Down
remember being at that match. a cousin of mine was doing goals for leitrim. remember him saying to me that knew he had no chance. brilliant goal.
those lads were all very big. i dont think we see many u16s that big now, and thats only 10 years ago.
I thought all talent was natural? So you mean the most talented?
Who's the Liatroim number 10? Doyle?
no laim doyle was over age,i think it was Damien Doyle??
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxDKiRlOkc&feature=related
south down final- watch him lobbing the keeper near the end!!!!
Unbelievable goal! When talkin about natural talent you have to look at players at a young age, and this at 15 or 16 is certainly a fantastic goal!
Quote from: maddog on November 20, 2006, 08:27:01 AM
Quotethe bane of Armagh "Peter the great Canavan"
Hardly, for the vast majority of his career he failed to score from play against us. I would consider O'Neill much more of a "bane" than Costeau.
lol...what a jokester...wise FFS :D
Oh God, let's not go there again.
Coulter in those clips reminds me very much of Canavan at that age.
It's easy picking players as "the most skillful" when they are at their prime but Canavan's influence was actually greater when he was at his careers end, body ravanged by injury and ill-health, but mind alert, setting the ball up for players, anticpating runs and snatching scores when there was no room to move in a tight game. The 2005 AI semi against Armagh is a classic example of this.
in terms on natural skill however I don't think anyone could match Frank McGuigan. If he'd looked after himself and dedicated the practise time that Canavan did I think he could have been considered as the greatest player ever. A short career, the ravages of alcohol and time wasted in America deprived him of that. Probably one like him in every county.
QuoteHardly, for the vast majority of his career he failed to score from play against us. I would consider O'Neill much more of a "bane" than Costeau.
Thats cos for the better part of Canavan's career Armagh didn't get past the first round! However my Armagh relatives will say Canavan "robbed us of 2 all Irelands" so he must have been doing something to annoy them! ;D
Quote from: T O Hare on September 17, 2008, 04:53:49 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9ZufwO5tU
watch benny coulters goal in this game
at 1 min 30 for everyone, given there wasn't a tackle put in, it wasn't that great.
Tyrones most naturally talented players of the last twenty years are Peter Canavan, Gerard Calvan, Adrian Cush and probably Stephen O Neill
Probably on page one of this thread but seeing as it's all being revisited natural talent needs to be defined here.
Sean Cavanagh is well on his way to becoming one of the all-time legends of the game, playing anywhere he's asked and will win All-Stars at midfield and in the forwards, yet he's not considered?
Sean Cavanagh is an amazing footballer but he uses his pace and power to great effect. ie. goal against Dublin this year. He is extremely talented but not as much so as those players i have already mentioned... IMO
Quote from: time ticking away on September 17, 2008, 07:31:24 PM
Sean Cavanagh is an amazing footballer but he uses his pace and power to great effect. ie. goal against Dublin this year. He is extremely talented but not as much so as those players i have already mentioned... IMO
Sean Cavanagh gives 110% every time he plays for Tyrone, he is the engine of the team, an outstanding footballer and if plays well in final is sure of another all-star this year to go with his other 3? and his young player of the year award!
I`ve seen them all from Greg Blaney to Peter Canavan and Shorty Treanor to Benny Coulter, but the most talented player I have ever seen was Marty Clarke. He was sometimes known as Magical Marty and that is just what he was.
The most talented player I have ever seen must be Canavan
Quote from: Down Gael on September 17, 2008, 09:06:49 PM
I`ve seen them all from Greg Blaney to Peter Canavan and Shorty Treanor to Benny Coulter, but the most talented player I have ever seen was Marty Clarke. He was sometimes known as Magical Marty and that is just what he was.
He certainly was as talented Minor as I've ever seen. Whatever about 2005 when he had 6 or 7 good players alongside him, the fact that Clarke was able to carry Kilkeel to a MacRory final in 2006 with very limited supporting cast gave an indication of how good he potentially could have been.
haven't seen anynone has naturally gifted as maurice fitz, who was so naturally talented he make the kerry team of the 70's look like paupers in comparison.
Watched those youtube videos. Benny Coulter was unreal in them. Totally dominated them and scored at will. Serious player even at that age. Don't think I have ever seen anyone dominate games in such a way like those two Under 16 finals on youtube.
I have watched him since the 1999 minors and just never figured out why Down never played him midfield or half forward for the senior team for a decent period of time. I know he played a bit in the half forward line for them but has played mostly in the full forward line. I know he gets plenty of goals but I always believed he would be better further out the field dictating play and running at people?? He is not the biggest but is very strong and has a good leap and could get away at midfield I believe at county level.
Also he was pointing 45's off the ground when he was 16/17, whats wrong he doesn't anymore. Can he not do it anymore or just doesn't?
Can't be arsed reading pages of Ulster-centric nominations so if he hasn't already been mentioned I'll throw in Graham Geraghty.
Has to be Maurice Fitz!
Quote from: cadhlancian on September 17, 2008, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: maddog on November 20, 2006, 08:27:01 AM
Quotethe bane of Armagh "Peter the great Canavan"
Hardly, for the vast majority of his career he failed to score from play against us. I would consider O'Neill much more of a "bane" than Costeau.
lol...what a jokester...wise FFS :D
While you are only out for a rise i'm sure, the indisputable facts are that o'neill has scored way more against Armagh from play in championship football than Canavan.
Maurice Fitz would get my vote every time
Quote from: Bomber on September 17, 2008, 10:55:41 PM
Watched those youtube videos. Benny Coulter was unreal in them. Totally dominated them and scored at will. Serious player even at that age. Don't think I have ever seen anyone dominate games in such a way like those two Under 16 finals on youtube.
I have watched him since the 1999 minors and just never figured out why Down never played him midfield or half forward for the senior team for a decent period of time. I know he played a bit in the half forward line for them but has played mostly in the full forward line. I know he gets plenty of goals but I always believed he would be better further out the field dictating play and running at people?? He is not the biggest but is very strong and has a good leap and could get away at midfield I believe at county level.
Also he was pointing 45's off the ground when he was 16/17, whats wrong he doesn't anymore. Can he not do it anymore or just doesn't?
never mind the u-16 finals, did any of you watch the 1993 U-12 final where Coulter was flying at corner forward and Sexton and Michael Walsh were runnin the show. Great to think that those men were playin as kids, then in Croker in the Minor final, then on County senior teams--that was some u-12 team
Yeah it's a pity that none of them can string 2 decent games together for the Senior Team.
Natural Talent well there are a few. I remember when I was really young watching Eamon Burns and James McCartan in a McRory final that was awesome one year. Paul McFlynn also played McRory football for St. Mary's and was always a naturally intelligent and class footballer. Gerard Cassidy also another who never quite fulfilled his promise from his younger days. Martin Clarke can also be included although I don't think we will see him in a Down jersey again.
In terms of players who are household names well you'd have to say Canavan, Gooch, Maurice Fitz, Declan Browne, Geraghty, McHugh, Tohill ( :( as much as I hate him he was a class footballer).
Kevin O'Brien of Wicklow by acountry mile. Absolute class.
Other notables, Mickey Linden, Mikey Sheehy,Larry Tompkins and especially Matt Connor.
Matt Connor was a brilliant player and going back a few years, Frank McGuigan was a supreme talent. Maurice Fitzgerald was class and my own county man Declan Browne is up there with the very best. Greg Blaney did not score as much as those mentioned but was an outstanding player. I am giving away my age, but Sean O'Neill was an exceptional forward on the great Down team of the 1960's.
Is Blaney considered better than Linden? I always thought that Linden was considered the best Down player of that era?
Blaney was the playmaker. he seemed to always be aware where his corner forwards were. He rarely gave a bad pass. He was also as hard as nails. Its very hard to pick out an individual on the Down team from 91-94, there were so many outstanding players, but Blaney was just that wee bit special.
When I think "naturally talented" I always think forwards for some reason.
Some of my favorites would be (in no particular order except for Maurice Fitz who is no 1...
Maurice Fitz
Gooch
Frankie Dolan (when on form)
Stevie McDonald
Canavan
Ciaran McDonald
On the debate on Cavan. Aidan Connolly was a tremendous footballer but as Lynchboy said, he destroyed himself with drink and with that his reputation too. Larry a naturally gifted footballer, I don't know. An exciting footballer yes, naturally gifted to a point I suppose. Pierson can be exceptional but hasn't done it enough to warrant being on that list. Cavans most naturally gifted footballers of the last 20 yrs is Dermot McCabe.(Stephen King & Damian Reilly would be top if it was 25 yrs!)
Naturally talented is a strange concept.
I see Kieran McDonald mentioned above. A naturally brilliant striker of a football, yes...but a natural footballer? I don't know. Players like Brian McGuigan, Greg Blaney and Trevor Giles were the fulcrums of winning All-Ireland teams because they naturally understood how to play football - maintaining possession, releasing players at the right time, always available to take the ball from their defence. McDonald was poor on all those counts. In my mind that would make them all better natural footballers, miles ahead of McDonald.
Oh come on! Michael Donnellan was the most naturally talented, most *physically* consummate player of this era. Maurice Fitz would be his only peer.
Quote from: mouview on September 18, 2008, 01:56:17 PM
Oh come on! Michael Donnellan was the most naturally talented, most *physically* consummate player of this era. Maurice Fitz would be his only peer.
Donnellan? A runner.
Forgot to add Colin Cooper.......a class act. Don't know him personally so I will not refer to him as "Gooch"......unlike the RTE commentators.....very unprofessional imho.
In no particular order -
Matt Connor, Michael Donnellan, Maurice Fitz.
When I think "naturally talented" I always think forwards for some reason.
Some of my favorites would be (in no particular order except for Maurice Fitz who is no 1...
Maurice Fitz
Gooch
Frankie Dolan (when on form)
Stevie McDonald
Canavan
Ciaran McDonald
On the debate on Cavan. Aidan Connolly was a tremendous footballer but as Lynchboy said, he destroyed himself with drink and with that his reputation too. Larry a naturally gifted footballer, I don't know. An exciting footballer yes, naturally gifted to a point I suppose. Pierson can be exceptional but hasn't done it enough to warrant being on that list. Cavans most naturally gifted footballers of the last 20 yrs is Dermot McCabe.(Stephen King & Damian Reilly would be top if it was 25 yrs
is this Frankie Dolan from Roscommon?(apologises if this is obvious!!!!)
i know but not through football is he that good?
Yes - from roscommon
maurice fitz and a mention for kieran mc donald.
I'd put it between Maurice Fitz, Mick O'Connell, Tommy Murphy, Sean Purcell and Mikey Sheehy.
would the Galway posters rate Micheal Donnellan as more naturally talented than Padraig Joyce or even Derek Savage
Quote from: Hardy on September 18, 2008, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: mouview on September 18, 2008, 01:56:17 PM
Oh come on! Michael Donnellan was the most naturally talented, most *physically* consummate player of this era. Maurice Fitz would be his only peer.
Donnellan? A runner.
Donnellan was a supreme natural talent in that the game came easily to him. He wasn't a particularly great trainer and indeed it seemed at times that the whole football thing was only a minor diversion for him (he never did interviews and retired from both county and club football at a fairly early age). I know he loved the game itself though but disliked all the extra stuff that goes with it these days especially at intercounty level. To compare him to one of his teammates I would say Donnellan was more naturally talented than Padraig Joyce but PJ worked far harder on his game to make himself better. Donnellan was just naturally gifted but the recurring injuries just wore him down early.
Natural talent is a hard one to pin down. The greatest footballers were not always the most naturally talented ones. PJ is one of the best footballers of the past 10 to 15 years but I wouldn't describe him as being as naturally talented as Michael Donnellan was even though PJ has been Galway's best player during that time.
Well put GBB. The more I think about it the more I'd compare Donnellan to George Best - application wasn't the best but sheer ability set them on a plane apart. Of course I'm biased, but at his best (sadly too seldom for Galway fans) Donnellan dictated the game, he formed it around him, he directed it. I didn't see too much of Matt Connor to comment on him, as I said only Maurice Fitz would be comparable that I have seen. Kieran Mac was somewhat similar but good though he was, he didn't have the pace or sheer all round ability of Donnellan.
I've only scanned this but Frank McGuigan must surely be up there? (that hurts to say as an Armagh man) but we grew up with Paddy Mo as the main man all the kids wanted to be like and Pat the bollix wasn't far behind but Frank was a step or two ahead of them both in my eyes (and lets just remember how subjective this is)
Maurice Fitz, wee james both outrageously talented when let play and not kicked off the field.
Always loved watching Corkery & Ciaran Mac playing at the 7s.
Peter Mc Ginnity should feature a lot higher in the ratings here. Definitely in top five, along with Canavan, McGuigan, McHugh, and Blayney. Corvan too if he had stayed around a bit longer, and can agree too with Cavlan at his sublime best. Stevie Mc Donnell, and the Mc Entee twins up there too. Have to say Paddy Bradley isnt far away either, and another dark horse is Martin Clarke who would be supremely gifted. Steven O Neill pure class it cant be argued against either.
We are talking about players who were worth the admission money alone for the things they could do. Nudie Hughes was a class act on and off the field, and what would Tyrone not give right now for another Eugene Mc Kenna? Tohill would have to be up there somewhere as well. Ciaran Hamill possibly the best Ive seen from Antrim - a view shared by Mick O Dwyer in his autobiography.
Forgot to mention the one player who would be first on my teamsheet if I was picking Ulsters finest of players currently playing. Fergal Doherty. That man is made for football.
Cavlan and McGuigan (Frank and Brian) could do things on the ball no others around them could for Tyrone. Canavan just about topped them in his heyday. Left, right, ground, hands - the man had it all except height yet it didn't hinder him.
Quote from: ONeill on September 18, 2008, 07:26:27 PM
Cavlan and McGuigan (Frank and Brian) could do things on the ball no others around them could for Tyrone. Canavan just about topped them in his heyday. Left, right, ground, hands - the man had it all except height yet it didn't hinder him.
Naturally talented at dog training
Forgot about Cavlan. Very very talented. He could do everything. Was a ntural. Field ball all day at midfield if he put his mind to it, one of the most accurate kick passers in the game, score from play and off the ground and also a great athlete. Very underrated.
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 18, 2008, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: ONeill on September 18, 2008, 07:26:27 PM
Cavlan and McGuigan (Frank and Brian) could do things on the ball no others around them could for Tyrone. Canavan just about topped them in his heyday. Left, right, ground, hands - the man had it all except height yet it didn't hinder him.
Naturally talented at dog training
Nobody ever claimed he was the sharpest tool in the box - but he was/is a fantastic footballer.
Quote from: blanketattack on September 18, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Is Blaney considered better than Linden? I always thought that Linden was considered the best Down player of that era?
Mickey would tell you himself that he wouldnt have achieved what he did (2 All Irelands, player of the year in 94, etc, etc) without Greg.
As someone said above.... that Down team of the early 90s was blessed with brilliant forwards...but who was holding the conductors baton???
I remember chatting to Peter Quinn...and he said Blaney was THE best he ever saw....high praise indeed.
Quote from: Bomber on September 18, 2008, 07:37:22 PM
Forgot about Cavlan. Very very talented. He could do everything. Was a ntural. Field ball all day at midfield if he put his mind to it, one of the most accurate kick passers in the game, score from play and off the ground and also a great athlete. Very underrated.
Bullshit. Considering the natural attributes that Cavlan had I would consider him the single greatest waste of talent ever to come out of Tyrone. Ability-wise, there's no doubt he was head and shoulders above Dooher as a minor on an Ulster minor winning team of 1993, from 1996 on I know which one I'd rather have had on my team.
Quote from: tyrone86 on September 19, 2008, 01:13:34 AM
Quote from: Bomber on September 18, 2008, 07:37:22 PM
Forgot about Cavlan. Very very talented. He could do everything. Was a ntural. Field ball all day at midfield if he put his mind to it, one of the most accurate kick passers in the game, score from play and off the ground and also a great athlete. Very underrated.
Bullshit. Considering the natural attributes that Cavlan had I would consider him the single greatest waste of talent ever to come out of Tyrone. Ability-wise, there's no doubt he was head and shoulders above Dooher as a minor on an Ulster minor winning team of 1993, from 1996 on I know which one I'd rather have had on my team.
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The thread is about natural talent not who is the best...... big difference
Quote from: Take Your Points on November 19, 2006, 04:43:09 PM
Since we have lost Stew and none of the Harps crew have leapt in, it is up to me as his schoolmate at Greenpark CBS to nominated Jonny Corvan as the most naturally talented in Armagh. Unfortunately, his talent was largely badly managed and lost. Even the College boys would agree with Corvan's nomination as the most naturally talented Armagh player.
I went to Greenpark as well. Were you there when Ned Kelly was head?
Quote from: Jinxy on September 18, 2008, 12:07:28 AM
Can't be arsed reading pages of Ulster-centric nominations so if he hasn't already been mentioned I'll throw in Graham Geraghty.
The thread was started by Gaafan 113 who asked
"Who in your opinion is most talented ulster player of last 20 years?"
You'll have to forgive some people who have understood and answered that question, for being Ulster-centric :)
That's no excuse MS. You know damn well it would have become Ulster-centric anyway!
(Whisper - do our Ulster friends not notice that we never get threads on here entitled "Best Leinster Midfielder Ever" or "Hairiest Connacht Defender Of the Seventies").
As an Ulster man I have no problem saying Maurice Fitzgerald was the most naturally gifted footballer in my opinion.
Canavan was immense but couldnt do things that Fitzgerald could. Frees, sidelines all came the same to Fitz.
Blaney too was a genius on the ball and a hard fecker but in terms of pure ability Fitzgerald done things on the field that other players wouldnt even try in training!!
Honestly think that Marty Clarke would have been the naturally gifted footaballer if he had stayed! Different Class
Quote from: 5 Sams on September 19, 2008, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on September 18, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
Is Blaney considered better than Linden? I always thought that Linden was considered the best Down player of that era?
Mickey would tell you himself that he wouldnt have achieved what he did (2 All Irelands, player of the year in 94, etc, etc) without Greg.
As someone said above.... that Down team of the early 90s was blessed with brilliant forwards...but who was holding the conductors baton???
I remember chatting to Peter Quinn...and he said Blaney was THE best he ever saw....high praise indeed.
Two of the toughest half backs of the modern game - Stephen O'Brien, Cork, and Liam Harnan, Meath, both rated Blaney their best opponent. Good call.
Naturally gifted doesn't always mean flair - we all have different gifts. Most of Blaney's were natural but he was a worker as well.
If limited to Ulster in the last 20 years, then I go for Tony Boyle on the basis of the criteria in the question.