Assisted suicides

[pintsofguinness]

But would you explicitly say 'No' to them if they pleaded with you to help them? Would you let them suffer indefinitely, against their wishes, just because you didn't agree? Would that not be incredibly selfish?

No, killing them because I didn't want to look after them would be the selfish thing.

As for being in a vegitative state, i'd trust your family to make the right decision for you, taking on board any medical advice.

But if they wanted to kill me you would be on here arguing I'd no quality of life etc and they were right.  Isn't that correct?

[Maguire01]

But would you explicitly say 'No' to them if they pleaded with you to help them? Would you let them suffer indefinitely, against their wishes, just because you didn't agree? Would that not be incredibly selfish?

No, killing them because I didn't want to look after them would be the selfish thing.

You're missing my point. This is not about you. It makes no difference to this argument whether or not you are willing to look after them. The scenario is that you're more than willing to care for them - there's no implication of selfishness in this respect, but they still don't want to live. I'm asking if you would you deny your family their wishes.

As for being in a vegitative state, i'd trust your family to make the right decision for you, taking on board any medical advice.

But if they wanted to kill me you would be on here arguing I'd no quality of life etc and they were right.  Isn't that correct?

I'd support and respect the views/actions of your family either way - it wouldn't be my place to say which decision was 'right' or 'wrong' when i doesn't involve me or my family. That's my point - there should be a choice.

[pintsofguinness]

You're missing my point. This is not about you. It makes no difference to this argument whether or not you are willing to look after them. The scenario is that you're more than willing to care for them - there's no implication of selfishness in this respect, but they still don't want to live. I'm asking if you would you deny your family their wishes.

I wouldn't kill them or have them killed, just like if one of them told me now that they wanted to die I'd be getting medical help for them rather than trying to fulfil their wish!

I'd support and respect the views/actions of your family either way - it wouldn't be my place to say which decision was 'right' or 'wrong' when i doesn't involve me or my family. That's my point - there should be a choice.

It wouldn't be your business that they are going to kill me? Are you serious? 
If I kill the missus because she burns my tea tonight is that none of your business? You'd respect my view and actions?

[Maguire01]

You're missing my point. This is not about you. It makes no difference to this argument whether or not you are willing to look after them. The scenario is that you're more than willing to care for them - there's no implication of selfishness in this respect, but they still don't want to live. I'm asking if you would you deny your family their wishes.

I wouldn't kill them or have them killed, just like if one of them told me now that they wanted to die I'd be getting medical help for them rather than trying to fulfil their wish!

Fair enough.

I'd support and respect the views/actions of your family either way - it wouldn't be my place to say which decision was 'right' or 'wrong' when i doesn't involve me or my family. That's my point - there should be a choice.

It wouldn't be your business that they are going to kill me? Are you serious? 
If I kill the missus because she burns my tea tonight is that none of your business? You'd respect my view and actions?

For the first part - Why would it be my business? I'm not the Police. And we're debating whether it should be a legal choice/right - if it was legal, it would definitely only be the family's business/decision.
As for the bit in bold - well that's just a bit silly, in the context of an otherwise sensible debate.

[pintsofguinness]

For the first part - Why would it be my business? I'm not the Police.

None of us are the police but if someone is going around killing other people we make it our business unless you decide the person's life isn't worth living and suddenly it's not your business.
I just don't understand how you can say that. 

How can you possibily justify involuntary euthansia?

[Maguire01]

For the first part - Why would it be my business? I'm not the Police.

None of us are the police but if someone is going around killing other people we make it our business unless you decide the person's life isn't worth living and suddenly it's not your business.
I just don't understand how you can say that. 

How can you possibily justify involuntary euthansia?

Okay - this started off a voluntary euthanasia. 'Involuntary' has only been debated in relation to turning off a life-support machine and not intervening (on a permanent basis) to keep someone alive.
Talk of 'going around killing people' is just sensationalising. We're not talking about a mass murderer on the loose, killing indiscriminately.

[pintsofguinness]

Same thing, you just see a difference because you've decided some of these people's lives arent worth living.

[Maguire01]

Same thing, you just see a difference because you've decided some of these people's lives arent worth living.

Someone turning off a life-support machine and letting someone die naturally is not the same thing as killing someone because they burnt your tea.

[pintsofguinness]

It is in my eyes.  Killing is killing.

[ludermor]

How can you possibily justify involuntary euthansia?

Pint, I dont want to go into old ground but i cant get my head around your views. You have absolutely no problem with a gang beating a sc**bag to death but you have huge issues with a person deciding what to do with their owns lives. You say that people can be treated fro depression but dont hold any hope for any sc**bag reforming and turning their life around.

[pintsofguinness]

It's not that I don't have a problem with it luder it's that I just have no sympathy.  I don't like that it has to come to that, I would much rather the police step in but if they won't then people will take the law in to their own hands.
You're right that a sc**bag can turn their life around but I'm not happy to wait around for that to happen when some oul person is afraid of their life in their house or some innocent person gets killed etc.
I'm all for protecting the life of innocent people.

[ludermor]

Fair enough.

[Diet Coke]

It's not that I don't have a problem with it luder it's that I just have no sympathy.  I don't like that it has to come to that, I would much rather the police step in but if they won't then people will take the law in to their own hands.
You're right that a sc**bag can turn their life around but I'm not happy to wait around for that to happen when some oul person is afraid of their life in their house or some innocent person gets killed etc.
I'm all for protecting the life of innocent people.

Now there's a laugh.

f**k off back in to the hole you crept out off!!

[pintsofguinness]

Have I done something to offend you diet coke?
Maybe you could leave the abuse to one thread?

[Puckoon]

But would you explicitly say 'No' to them if they pleaded with you to help them? Would you let them suffer indefinitely, against their wishes, just because you didn't agree? Would that not be incredibly selfish?

No, killing them because I didn't want to look after them would be the selfish thing.

As for being in a vegitative state, i'd trust your family to make the right decision for you, taking on board any medical advice.

But if they wanted to kill me you would be on here arguing I'd no quality of life etc and they were right.  Isn't that correct?

Pints, I fear you, like capt pat are also beginning to miss the point, and in your desire to make support for this sound like murder - you are re-phrasing the actions of the parents to suit your own point of view.

While I cant speak for everyone - I fully believe (key words there) that there was no "killing" done. Assistence was given to someone who clearly wanted to end their life. Phrases like "But if they wanted to kill me you'd be on here arguing that Id no quality of life" are total bullshit and a poor attempt to garner support by painting euthanasia and assisted suicide (which are the same thing) as the providers of care simply wanting rid of someone who requires extra special attention, when infact the truth is that it is the afflicted party who wants to end their life.

So, to rephrase your question - If you wanted to die because of some intolerable illness/condition - then yes, Id support your decision.

If for one iota of a nano second I thought that your caregivers wanted rid of you - well, Im sure you well know that there would be national uproar in such a scenario, and in no way would it get any support from decent minded people who happen to support euthanasia.

I do disagree with their criteria of mental illness - Id like them to clarify that point.


Diet Coke - if you cant come in and debate something without turning to playground insults that you dont even have the smarts to make up yourself - then take a hike or learn some manners.