Ulster Final 2008 - Armagh vs Fermanagh

[D4S]

D4S, we have the small matter of Laois to contend with first.
Even if we beat Laois, I think we are destined to get erry.

If you read my earlier posts on the previous page you will see where I had already mentioned if we get by Laois, laois will be a stern test!

[haranguerer]

Some rubbish being talked on here, unfortunately a fair bit of it by Fermanagh ones.
Sammy - I honestly expected to open that photo you posted and see a pigeon attacking a fermanagh player - its spelt 'foul'... and it wasn't by the way. Keenan shouldnt have ran into the first tackle, and then the other two wouldnt have been able to surround him. Its good defensive play, they deserve the free out that prob followed for overcarrying.

The match on Sun - I expect the same team named as last week, but that team to start also. If anyone doesnt start, I reckon it'll be James sherry (could Doc get his reward??)
- he was good in MF last week, but the game passes him by elsewhere, and our strongest MF combo is McGrath and Murphy.

No way will McCluskey be on McDonnell. Everyones been shouting for him to be marking first Freeman, then P Bradley, now McDonnell. He wont be, because both Sherry and Goan are better man markers than him. Fact. Add to the equation that he is more useful playing chb, and its a no-brainer.

McBarron will do the usual in FF, disrupt the backline as the ball comes in - anyting can happen then. Good honest work rate in there will cause problems, as we seen whenever awful ball was going into Owens but he was still fighting for it.

McCabe doesnt deserve a starting berth, he was poor last week, but he knows that. It seemed clear that firstly he was trying too hard to live up to the very favourable press hes being getting, by being on the ball all the time, and secondly that he was nervous.

The Fermanagh game is to handpass to about half way, then kick the ball in. They showed a marked reluctance to kick the ball in the first half - lack of confidence. McCabe for example turned down an easy kick pass early on to turn back, where he promptly got into trouble. Kelly usually has no problem going forward, but when a ball was played in front of him early on, he hesitated, again, lack of confidence.

McGrane has been getting a fair bit of stick from Armagh supporters. I though he had a good solid game. McGrath was average, although he kicked two great scores. If he dominated McGrane like some say, why didnt he make a catch? McGrane was breaking the ball and working hard, he lacked the support from esp Aaron Kernan, and Charlie Vernon, who was awful. If there is to be a change to the armagh lineup I expect it to be for him.

If I was McDonnell the biggest change I would make is to push someone up on Clucker - I thought he would do this the first day. Tie him up, and we'll find out ferms plan B.

I expect Fermangh to win however. My honest opinion of the last day is that we played poorly and drew. Apart from Ciaran McElroy, everyone can improve. I dont think there is as much improvement in Armagh. Fermanagh have been freed from the shackles of the occasion - I could even see a repeat of cork in 04, where they blitzed them in the last ten min.

Btw, heard Tom Elliot (UUP?) was on Dunseith saying he hopes Fermanagh lose so those tricolours come down asap. Anyone hear this?? it seems Orangemen support their own no matter what the occasion...

[Joe Umbrella (hey)]

Pains me to say it but I hope Armagh win against the anti - football players from Fermanagh. Teams have been playing the "so called" blanket defence for years now but the sucessful ones have had truly great forwards to 'reward' all the ugly play. Tyrone had McGuigan, Canavan and O'Neill et al. while Armagh had and still have McDonnell, Clarke and McConville. Fermanagh I'm afraid dont have that. Your man keenan (a decent player that he is) missed a free from about 15 metres last sunday - he should have been suspended for such a crime - some have been suspened for less this year! If Fermanagh can find 1 or 2 out and out scoring forwards then they will be a hell of a team, while if Armagh keep their heads on sunday they will win.

[balladmaker]

My views on Sunday's game are straight forward:

Armagh to win.  Why?  Because 9 times out of 10, the best team usually prevail.  Armagh don't give second chances in replays and I expect this trend to continue Sunday.  Armagh have a potent forward line, Fermanagh don't. 

I feel Armagh will improve at midfield this Sunday which will ensure enough ball goes into the forwards to close out the game.  Fermanagh could not expect to get the same amount of ball in the middle as they got last Sunday.  With less ball going into a pretty ordinary forward line, Fermanagh could struggle to rack up enough scores.

Armagh by 4, easing off.  That's my opinion anyway.

[Armamike]

Bold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!

The spine of the team is too old and basically you cannot have a spine that immobile and expect to win things. McGrane, O'Rourke and Bellew are over the hill. Add to that the fact there's no football in O'Rourke, McKeever, Vernon and Toner you have a real problem. Even the Kernans couldn't cut it in the last match.

Armagh's players are all strength and no skill compared to Fermanagh who have players like McCluskey, McGrath, McElroy, Maguire and Little who are full of it. Fermanagh are also twice as fit as Armagh which for me would be the reason they win by 4 points.

Armagh need to start breeding footballers and lads who can actually put boot to ball whether it be hand toeing or kick passing... the current crop are not up to it and only for Clarke and McDonnell they would be nowhere near in this game... if one of them have an off day Armagh better watch out!

Only one response to that - you're talking shite.

[mackers]

Bold prediction. Armagh to lose by 4!

The spine of the team is too old and basically you cannot have a spine that immobile and expect to win things. McGrane, O'Rourke and Bellew are over the hill. Add to that the fact there's no football in O'Rourke, McKeever, Vernon and Toner you have a real problem. Even the Kernans couldn't cut it in the last match.

Armagh's players are all strength and no skill compared to Fermanagh who have players like McCluskey, McGrath, McElroy, Maguire and Little who are full of it. Fermanagh are also twice as fit as Armagh which for me would be the reason they win by 4 points.

Armagh need to start breeding footballers and lads who can actually put boot to ball whether it be hand toeing or kick passing... the current crop are not up to it and only for Clarke and McDonnell they would be nowhere near in this game... if one of them have an off day Armagh better watch out!

Only one response to that - you're talking shite.

There's an excuse for some of the newbies on the board but if screenexile insists that he's not on the wind up then jealousy has got a firm grip on him (he was at it about Clarke a couple of weeks ago). Those Armagh players "with no football in them" that he refers to have more medals than the average Derry player can shake a stick at!

[full back]

screenexile has very little else to for the rest of the Summer, so I wouldnt worry too much about what he is saying, just trying to be a WUM.
Expect a victory on Sunday by a few points, if we have any expectations at all this Summer we need to be beating Fermanagh (no disrespect)

[ExiledGael]

My views on Sunday's game are straight forward:

Armagh to win.  Why?  Because 9 times out of 10, the best team usually prevail.  Armagh don't give second chances in replays and I expect this trend to continue Sunday.  Armagh have a potent forward line, Fermanagh don't. 

I feel Armagh will improve at midfield this Sunday which will ensure enough ball goes into the forwards to close out the game.  Fermanagh could not expect to get the same amount of ball in the middle as they got last Sunday.  With less ball going into a pretty ordinary forward line, Fermanagh could struggle to rack up enough scores.

Armagh by 4, easing off.  That's my opinion anyway.

Armagh have a potent forward duo, trio at best. Armagh haven't improved at midfield for a number of games in a row now. Fermanagh will not miss as many frees as they did the last day. Fermanagh will not kick 10 balls into the keeper's hands again. Deegan will give a whole lot more frees than White did. Those are facts which give us a chance at least. Armagh are clearly the favourites but 11/5 is a hell of a price on Fermanagh.

[Armamike]

Rufus - transition is a premeditated line pushed by armagh players and management but none of them believe it for a second. if it were a transition period you'd remove anyone who isn't gonna be there in 3 years and start from scratch. McDonnell seems to love trotting that line out.

there is evolution in every team every year. If McDonnell didn't believe he could win an all ireland he wouldn't be playing Paul McGrane, Aidan O'Rourke, Enda, francie and Oisin at all.

Definetly a team in transition IMO, just not as marked as others may do it for the simple reason that McDonnell didn't want to come in and start from scratch and spend 2 or 3 years building a team while probably doing so from Divsion 3.  Evolution not revolution was a phrase trotted out a while back, and I agree with the philosophy, but it's still a transitory phase.

I thought McDonnell in his cryptic way was trying to say that they were not a team in transition - that it was everyone else saying it.

The terminology used really depends on whether the team is successful or not.  When you lose, the team's in transition. Win and it's called 'evolution'.  The fact is all good teams bring in a couple of new faces each year to keep things fresh. Kerry have been evolving as a team since 1997.  The Armagh side than won the AI in 2002 had 5 new personnel starting who didn't feature in 1999.  2004 saw the introduction of 3 or 4 u21 players to the line up. And it goes on.  I actually think the age profile of the current Armagh side is a lot healthier looking than was the case 3-4 years back. Then we had a skewed age profile with a bunch of players in their late 20s or over and a bunch in their very early 20s, critically lacking in the mid 20s category. We have that spread now, which is important for contuinity and avoids the problem of the core of your team retiring en masse. Whether Armagh have the basis for going the whole way this year is questionable, but it's probably as good a basis as it's going to get.

[Zapatista]

intriguing insight into the Ulster showpiece there Zapapista, many thanks for your input.

I think my one sentence contribution was enough to give my point of view especially after 52 pages of crap analyze. The last thing this thread needs is more insight. I will be back to eat my hat or say i told ye so on Monday.

[FermGael]

Btw, heard Tom Elliot (UUP?) was on Dunseith saying he hopes Fermanagh lose so those tricolours come down asap. Anyone hear this?? it seems Orangemen support their own no matter what the occasion...

That's a bit strange considering the amount of support Fermanagh had from our Protestant friends in the county.  There were loads of them at the match and it was great to see.

A friend of mine was on the hill, beside an ole fella from Roslea.
Ole Fella says Fermanagh are going to there first Ulster.
Friend replies what makes you say that.
Ole fella says Just seen one miracle today.  An ole protestant farmer from Roslea, Mr Orange order who marches through the town every year, just stood in his Fermanagh shirt and respected our national anthem.
Times they are a changing

[ONeill]

Sure Fermanagh is Protestant and water.

[Carmen Stateside]

Must be hard all the same to be playing with webbed feet!

[orangeman]

Demand for tickets seems to be very high - full house is anticipated.

[orangeman]

Is the replay on TV at all ?