government grants to GAA players -- not getting into prefessionalism etc

[cornafean]

So the assertions that (i'm paraphrasing out of laziness) "they took the money so they can take the punishment", etc were justified?

If you are looking for a discussion forum where every single opinion expressed is logical, temperate, fair and correct, you will be a long time looking 

Just because an odd opinion is illogical, intemperate, unfair or incorrect does not in itself invalidate the entire discussion. You don't throw your TV out the window just because you don't like a particular programme.

[Uladh]

The particular contributers who spam these threads with multiple posts do not (want to) understand the subject matter, nor do they wish to debate the merits of anyone else's opinion. put simply, 2 or 3 morons ignore established facts, disproved theories and previously addressed points to consistently (and frequently) rehash their mantra (4 legs good, 2 legs bad) irrespective. the habit of snapping on the leash and drooling through their muzzle at the very mention of the three G P A letters clouds any possibility of any decent contribution.

[magpie seanie]

Uladh - I don't know if you're including me amongst those that are turning you away from the board but I'd just ask you these questions. Can you understand why the GPA elicits such a negative response from people? Can you understand why people are suspicious of them and their methods?

I was one person who linked the receiving of the grants with the drug testing. Its quite clear there would be no grants without the drug testing. I wouldn't subscribe to "they took the money so they can take the punishment" at all. I merely brought the point up to highlight that Peter Canavan's article was double speak. I was and am against the grants. I'm also unhappy with amateur players being drug tested in the same manner as professionals. I'm hugely sympathetic with Aidan O'Mahony and hope he gets no suspension. Nothing will stop the abuse and mud that will stick though.

[Uladh]

certainly not seanie - and its not just the players issues that bugs me but thats another story.

absolutely i understand the suspicion towards the gpa and particularly their officers. they are breaking new ground and that is always difficult on all sides. however, i cringe at the automatic villification of members of the gpa. i have good friends who are members and i can say without hesitation they are the best gaels i know.

there would be no grants without drug testing but that includes all grants. sports council / government grants for facilities etc would not have come without the gaa signing their county players up for drug testing ten odd years ago. you could argue that the gaa elevated their intercounty players to special status with the lifestyle constraints that this requires them to adhere to, and that this was done so that the gaa could access the treasure chest of government money they've recieved over 10 years.

[magpie seanie]

certainly not seanie - and its not just the players issues that bugs me but thats another story.

absolutely i understand the suspicion towards the gpa and particularly their officers. they are breaking new ground and that is always difficult on all sides. however, i cringe at the automatic villification of members of the gpa. i have good friends who are members and i can say without hesitation they are the best gaels i know.

there would be no grants without drug testing but that includes all grants. sports council / government grants for facilities etc would not have come without the gaa signing their county players up for drug testing ten odd years ago. you could argue that the gaa elevated their intercounty players to special status with the lifestyle constraints that this requires them to adhere to, and that this was done so that the gaa could access the treasure chest of government money they've recieved over 10 years.

If that is the case then its a disgrace. The GAA should never have agreed to this and I don't see why they should have.

Uladh - there is a huge and growing collection of idiots on this board so do us a favour and don't bail out as it would be one less good poster. I know it can be hard though.

[rrhf]

Whilst the grants uturn is regrettable for the players probably,  it must be said for anyone harboring notions of semi professionalism in the GAA in the future.  If the country cant afford to pay players how ever could the GAA.

[Uladh]

Is there anyone on this bord who harbours notions of a semi professional game?

[cornafean]

Uladh - there is a huge and growing collection of idiots on this board so do us a favour and don't bail out as it would be one less good poster.

I agree fully, fwiw.

[Hound]

Is there anyone on this bord who harbours notions of a semi professional game?

What bugs me is the people who think the GPA will make the GAA professional or semi-professional. Its just beyond all logic to think they can achieve it without the GAA giving the go ahead. But there is just no reasoning with them, and I firmly believe there is a huge chip on the shoulder from posters on this site who are perhaps club players/members/officials, who are just pure green with envy that intercounty players get certain benefits and they get nothing.

Anyway, back on point, Dessie has clearly clarified once again, that in the event of a shortfall from government regarding the grant they will NOT ask the GAA to stump it up.

It is likely the Irish Sports Council's funding will be reduced by 8%. Therefore a reduction in the grants of 8% would be fair and reasonable. Anything in excess of 8% would be unfair.

[rrhf]

that in the event of a shortfall from government regarding the grant they will NOT ask the GAA to stump it up.
I dont think that was ever an option so hes wasting his own breath.

[Hound]

that in the event of a shortfall from government regarding the grant they will NOT ask the GAA to stump it up.
I dont think that was ever an option so hes wasting his own breath.

Indeed (although he was just responding to a direct question asked on RTE radio). If the money is coming from the Irish Sports Council, and not coming from the GAA, how can any GAA person be against grants to intercounty players?

One of the primary arguments of those against the grants was that if and when the govt stopped the grants, then the GAA would somehow be forced to stump up. Its clear thats totally out of the question. Though I expect those against the grants may try and invent new reasons to oppose the grants.

[magpie seanie]

I cautiously welcome Farrell's comments in relation to this. At least he has more cop on than our genius Minister:

GAA disappointed with Cullen comments
Thursday, 20 November 2008 14:41
The GAA has expressed its disappointment at comments made in the Dáil yesterday by the Minister for Arts, Sports and Tourism, Martin Cullen TD.

The Minister cast doubt on future funding for the Government's Annual Team Performance and Support Schemes for the Development of Excellence in hurling and Gaelic football.

GAA President, Nickey Brennan said it was his hope that the Government would continue to honour the terms of the agreement reached in November last year and that the schemes as rolled out in 2008 had been an appropriate recognition of the contribution of senior intercounty players to the social, economic and cultural life of the nation.

He said the GAA would be talking to the GPA in the coming days in relation to the matter.

One of the primary arguments of those against the grants was that if and when the govt stopped the grants, then the GAA would somehow be forced to stump up. Its clear thats totally out of the question. Though I expect those against the grants may try and invent new reasons to oppose the grants.

Hound - I think that's very unfair, especially in the light on Minister Cullen's comments. Or maybe I'm just a jealous b**tard who hates players?

Edit - Sorry, I thought that piece mentioned where Cullen said the GAA should fund the grants or make up the shortfall as was reported on the Radio this morning.

[Hardy]

Uladh - there is a huge and growing collection of idiots on this board so do us a favour and don't bail out as it would be one less good poster. I know it can be hard though.

I agree, and that's as one who is vehemently oposed to the GPA's agenda and makes no apology aboout campaigning against it here as strongly and as consistently as I can.

Hound, I resent your suggestion that people who oppose the GPA's agenda do it out of envy. It's a cheap argument and represents no truth other than your own prejudice and presumption that people who disagree with you are wrong by definition. I can assure you that my oposition to them is based on my belief that they are fundamentally inimical to the ethos of the GAA.

However, I do believe that we have won the major battle and the GPA itself no longer believes it can achieve pay for play, beyuond the level available (or not! from government grants. I still very strongly resent their elitism and promotion of themselves as a special group worthy of special privileges (the only one in the GAA).

[Uladh]

Uladh - there is a huge and growing collection of idiots on this board so do us a favour and don't bail out as it would be one less good poster. I know it can be hard though.

I agree, and that's as one who is vehemently oposed to the GPA's agenda and makes no apology aboout campaigning against it here as strongly and as consistently as I can.

Hound, I resent your suggestion that people who oppose the GPA's agenda do it out of envy. It's a cheap argument and represents no truth other than your own prejudice and presumption that people who disagree with you are wrong by definition. I can assure you that my oposition to them is based on my belief that they are fundamentally inimical to the ethos of the GAA.

However, I do believe that we have won the major battle and the GPA itself no longer believes it can achieve pay for play, beyuond the level available (or not! from government grants. I still very strongly resent their elitism and promotion of themselves as a special group worthy of special privileges (the only one in the GAA).

i'm not sure there were ever many (if any) within the thousands who have been gpa members who intended to achieve pay for play status.

I believe that the gaa elevated intercounty players to "special" status. by the GAA i mean the association in its many guises.

administration did it years ago by subjecting them to international olympic standard drug testing and the lifestyle curtailments that go with it. only this small band of the hundreds of thousands of GAA members are pushed forward for this.

county boards and managers have contributed by shelling out ever increasing thousands to employ professional people from every corner of professional sport to demand more and more from them. strength and conditioning coaches, dieticians, fitness coaches, speed coaches, lifestyle coaches, psychologists, etc. each pushing the boundaries and the requirments from players, because that is what they are paid to do.

all this before being required to play football!

but much more than that, we the fan demand more and more from them. the bachelor boys training at 6 in the morning won the all ireland- everyone had to do it or they were not up to it. 4, 5, 6 nights a week, la manga, whatever new urban myth promises success it has to be done.

how often does the ordinary fan complain about their county men that they're not good enough, not committed enough, not fit enough, too heavy, too slow, etc. to play for X. "i saw x in the local last week and it less than a month til the championship!".

if we're honest we demand the very highest standards from intercounty players - standards that many professional sportsmen fail to meet. one of the biggest reasons for my pride in the GAA is how we can produce so many athletes and games of the highest quality, that would be the envy of many a professional sport, in a unique and amateur environment. with all that goes into this i for one don't begrudge the government recognising county players for their commitment to excellence and their contribution to gaelic games - the centre piece of many peoples lives in this country and joyous sports to be part of.

If you believe that the E1400 expenses grant or whatever they get is putting them on a professional footing when they are actually doing all of the above while working full time and meeting life commitments, then fair enough. i can't agree.

[johnpower]

Uladh - there is a huge and growing collection of idiots on this board so do us a favour and don't bail out as it would be one less good poster. I know it can be hard though.

I agree, and that's as one who is vehemently oposed to the GPA's agenda and makes no apology aboout campaigning against it here as strongly and as consistently as I can.

Hound, I resent your suggestion that people who oppose the GPA's agenda do it out of envy. It's a cheap argument and represents no truth other than your own prejudice and presumption that people who disagree with you are wrong by definition. I can assure you that my oposition to them is based on my belief that they are fundamentally inimical to the ethos of the GAA.

However, I do believe that we have won the major battle and the GPA itself no longer believes it can achieve pay for play, beyuond the level available (or not! from government grants. I still very strongly resent their elitism and promotion of themselves as a special group worthy of special privileges (the only one in the GAA).

i'm not sure there were ever many (if any) within the thousands who have been gpa members who intended to achieve pay for play status.

I believe that the gaa elevated intercounty players to "special" status. by the GAA i mean the association in its many guises.

administration did it years ago by subjecting them to international olympic standard drug testing and the lifestyle curtailments that go with it. only this small band of the hundreds of thousands of GAA members are pushed forward for this.

county boards and managers have contributed by shelling out ever increasing thousands to employ professional people from every corner of professional sport to demand more and more from them. strength and conditioning coaches, dieticians, fitness coaches, speed coaches, lifestyle coaches, psychologists, etc. each pushing the boundaries and the requirments from players, because that is what they are paid to do.

all this before being required to play football!

but much more than that, we the fan demand more and more from them. the bachelor boys training at 6 in the morning won the all ireland- everyone had to do it or they were not up to it. 4, 5, 6 nights a week, la manga, whatever new urban myth promises success it has to be done.

how often does the ordinary fan complain about their county men that they're not good enough, not committed enough, not fit enough, too heavy, too slow, etc. to play for X. "i saw x in the local last week and it less than a month til the championship!".

if we're honest we demand the very highest standards from intercounty players - standards that many professional sportsmen fail to meet. one of the biggest reasons for my pride in the GAA is how we can produce so many athletes and games of the highest quality, that would be the envy of many a professional sport, in a unique and amateur environment. with all that goes into this i for one don't begrudge the government recognising county players for their commitment to excellence and their contribution to gaelic games - the centre piece of many peoples lives in this country and joyous sports to be part of.

If you believe that the E1400 expenses grant or whatever they get is putting them on a professional footing when they are actually doing all of the above while working full time and meeting life commitments, then fair enough. i can't agree.

Great post good to see a bit of balance in the debate