government grants to GAA players -- not getting into prefessionalism etc

[pintsofguinness]

Many county players aren't available to their clubs now and rightly so IMO if county players stop playing for their clubs in the future then that may not be such a bad thing. But hopefully it won't be for money but out of realism.

Interesting.

[orangeman]

I have argued consistently that the GAA hierarchy have been sneaky in their approach and have turned their coats on this issue. That's the bit that really annoys me - it's not the fact that players are getting some money in itself, it's the whole principle and how the hierarchy conducted themselves on this sorry issue.

OM didn't you argue consistently that the Cork players were wrong to strike considering the fact that the clubs voted for the CB proposal. I pointed out to you the undemocratic and debateable nature of those voted but you still thought that the players were wrong because democracy had spoken? I'm not having a pop at you OM but democracy in the GAA is riddled with politics and is rarely an expression of the grassroot view, in saying that I believe the GAA did the right thing today. 

The issue was never debated at grassroots level. Upon the intervention of Conway it was found the original proposal that the top brass were going to railroad through was flawed! I have no problem with players getting the general perks going at that level but i draw the line at this "expenses" lark. You can't have a little bit of professionalism- you are either amateur or you're not. And we're not anymore.

Indiana we haven't been truely amateur for many years now, but I don't believe that this grant will lead to the scenario you paint. Many county players aren't available to their clubs now and rightly so IMO if county players stop playing for their clubs in the future then that may not be such a bad thing. But hopefully it won't be for money but out of realism.

You've inadvertently proved my arguments ! County players not playing with their clubs and that's ok with you ! What a laugh ! 

That's good thinking Zulu - keep it up !

[orangeman]

The GAA's ruling body - congress - democratically voted to accept this scheme.
Take ye're batin and move on for **** sake .
Enough of the"everyone's out of step except us in the purity corner"

This notion that Congress is infallible in the way that the Pope is and Emperor Hirohito was until 1945 is bizarre. A few years ago, Congress voted for a sin bin. Look what happened. A few years ago, Congress voted to exclude Division 4 teams from the All Ireland Qualifiers.  Look what happened.

Both these decisions were reversed, as they were both regarded in hindsight as mistakes. And yet today, the pro-Rule 11  & anti-grants lobby are told to forget the issue ever happened and "move on" as if they were undesirables blocking the public road.   

That's really the bottom line Cronafean ! 

[Zulu]

This notion that Congress is infallible in the way that the Pope is and Emperor Hirohito was until 1945 is bizarre. A few years ago, Congress voted for a sin bin. Look what happened. A few years ago, Congress voted to exclude Division 4 teams from the All Ireland Qualifiers.  Look what happened.

Both these decisions were reversed, as they were both regarded in hindsight as mistakes. And yet today, the pro-Rule 11  & anti-grants lobby are told to forget the issue ever happened and "move on" as if they were undesirables blocking the public road.

Who said they were mistakes, the sinbin should have been given at least 2 National League seasons and big Joe should have been ignored. The decision to exclude division 4 teams from the championship created an extra weekend for clubs and added a bit of spice to both division 3 and 4, the logic of reversing this decision has to be questioned. As usual short sighted, parochial, self serving views over rule rational opinion in the GAA.

[Zulu]

You've inadvertently proved my arguments ! County players not playing with their clubs and that's ok with you ! What a laugh !     

That's good thinking Zulu - keep it up !

Care to elaborate OM?

Quote
Many county players aren't available to their clubs now and rightly so IMO if county players stop playing for their clubs in the future then that may not be such a bad thing. But hopefully it won't be for money but out of realism.
Interesting.

Same question to you POG.

[orangeman]

This notion that Congress is infallible in the way that the Pope is and Emperor Hirohito was until 1945 is bizarre. A few years ago, Congress voted for a sin bin. Look what happened. A few years ago, Congress voted to exclude Division 4 teams from the All Ireland Qualifiers.  Look what happened.

Both these decisions were reversed, as they were both regarded in hindsight as mistakes. And yet today, the pro-Rule 11  & anti-grants lobby are told to forget the issue ever happened and "move on" as if they were undesirables blocking the public road.

Who said they were mistakes, the sinbin should have been given at least 2 National League seasons and big Joe should have been ignored. The decision to exclude division 4 teams from the championship created an extra weekend for clubs and added a bit of spice to both division 3 and 4, the logic of reversing this decision has to be questioned. As usual short sighted, parochial, self serving views over rule rational opinion in the GAA.

Jesus it's great that you have all the right answers Zulu ! We'd all be lost without your wisdom and knowledge ! It's a pity we were not as well educate as you !  

[orangeman]

if county players stop playing for their clubs in the future then that may not be such a bad thing. But hopefully it won't be for money but out of realism.


You're just following the trawler Zulu - another one who is led by the nose and now you claim to be a realist !! Unreal !!!!!!!!!!! 

[Zulu]

OM why don't you try and back up your opinion with some kind of argument rather than simply mis-quoting Cantona. How am I lead by the nose?

[pintsofguinness]

Zulu I think you're comments just speak volumes about your attitude, many in the gaa, myself included, would be screaming out for something to be done to address the issues in club football/hurling -  one of them being to allow county players to play a bigger part in their clubs.

I think you're right that we will come to a stage when county and club are effectively split but I would see it as a massive problem where you'd be happy for it to happen.  At this stage I'd welcome a split because the club scene is being killed off, classic case of cutting off your nose despite your face.

[orangeman]

I am away to bed here - I've just realised that I'm tired !   In the same way that Cork showed the GAA hierarchy how to be realists in the face of strike action !!!!!!! Jesus but we've a lot to thank the Cork lads for !!!!!!!!!!

[orangeman]

OM why don't you try and back up your opinion with some kind of argument rather than simply mis-quoting Cantona. How am I lead by the nose?

There's going to be a new Cork president who although anti grant is a realist and realises like others that he has to back down in the face of the Donal Og, Sean Og and most recently Zulu Og - The Cork lads have reallt shown the way.

It's time we became like them and realise that whatwever the Cork players and posters say, it is best just to go along with it.

Taking county players away from the clubs is a silly idea. Rugby did this - look at the state of club rugby.
Zulu wants county players simply to play for their counties - how many games a year would players from the weaker counties get per year ? And as you have all the answers Zulu,how much could you afford to pay them ?

[Zulu]

Zulu I think you're comments just speak volumes about your attitude, many in the gaa, myself included, would be screaming out for something to be done to address the issues in club football/hurling -  one of them being to allow county players to play a bigger part in their clubs.

That's where you're wrong POG, I currently coach the U6, 8, 10 and 12 football teams in my club aswell as the U21 and senior teams. I play with the junior football team and could play for the senior team except for the fact that I coach them. I'm also heavily involved in Sigerson football and financially support all GAA activity whenever I can regardless of the club or county. I apologise if that comes across as some sort of boast but I'm only trying to give context to my opinion. But over the past number of years I have come to the conclusion that club teams would be better off without their county players. That you automatically think that that makes you a truer GAA man than me speaks volumes for you rather than me. IC players put so much time and effort into the county team that it is unfair to expect them to train and play for their clubs during their time off from the couny team. It is also unfair for club players to be at the beck and call of the IC manager. IMO it is time for the club player top go his own way and let the county player play at his rightful leve and have club players play regular footballl.

There's going to be a new Cork president who although anti grant is a realist and realises like others that he has to back down in the face of the Donal Og, Sean Og and most recently Zulu Og - The Cork lads have reallt shown the way.

It's time we became like them and realise that whatwever the Cork players and posters say, it is best just to go along with it.

Taking county players away from the clubs is a silly idea. Rugby did this - look at the state of club rugby.
Zulu wants county players simply to play for their counties - how many games a year would players from the weaker counties get per year ? And as you have all the answers Zulu,how much could you afford to pay them ?

OM that is a rubbish post laced with childish sarcasim, your comparison to rugby is pointless and well off the mark, underage rugby has never been as strong. I'm not from Cork by the way and if you are so concerned about club players why are you bothered about how many games IC players from weak counties would get?

[pintsofguinness]

That's where you're wrong POG, I currently coach the U6, 8, 10 and 12 football teams in my club aswell as the U21 and senior teams. I play with the junior football team and could play for the senior team except for the fact that I coach them. I'm also heavily involved in Sigerson football and financially support all GAA activity whenever I can regardless of the club or county. I apologise if that comes across as some sort of boast but I'm only trying to give context to my opinion. But over the past number of years I have come to the conclusion that club teams would be better off without their county players. That you automatically think that that makes you a truer GAA man than me speaks volumes for you rather than me. IC players put so much time and effort into the county team that it is unfair to expect them to train and play for their clubs during their time off from the couny team. It is also unfair for club players to be at the beck and call of the IC manager. IMO it is time for the club player top go his own way and let the county player play at his rightful leve and have club players play regular footballl.

I didn't comment at all on who was a truer gaa man. 
God love the IC players  Lets not forget it's club players who have the rougher deal here and they aren't getting cash for it. 
It's time that fixtures were addressed but there's no chance of that because it would actually make sense!
SO you think IC players should only play with the county, sure that would only be a handful of games a year - a majority of them, if it weren't for clubs, would have a long summer but with all their yapping and whinging maybe that's what they want. 

The GAA are becoming a joke and an embarrassment - we haven't a decent rule book, if a player actually serves his suspension it makes the headlines, the club scene is dying on it's arse and we think we're great because we've TV deals and some new logo - talk about building a house with straw!

[Zulu]

The GAA are becoming a joke and an embarrassment - we haven't a decent rule book, if a player actually serves his suspension it makes the headlines, the club scene is dying on it's arse and we think we're great because we've TV deals and some new logo - talk about building a house with straw!

Agree 100%.

I didn't comment at all on who was a truer gaa man.

In fairness POG you did suggest it.

God love the IC players   Lets not forget it's club players who have the rougher deal here and they aren't getting cash for it. 

I'm not sure they are POG but if the govt. are willing to give money to any GAA man I'll not complain.

SO you think IC players should only play with the county, sure that would only be a handful of games a year - a majority of them, if it weren't for clubs, would have a long summer but with all their yapping and whinging maybe that's what they want. 

I don't necessarily think they should but I do think that it may be coming and it may not be a bad thing, we are probably the only sports organisation that asks the best players to compete at various levels and then gives out to them if they complain. Remember that many lads are dual players at club level an IC player can be expected to train and play for at least 3 seperate teams in a given year. Would it be so bad if club players could play their championship without having to worry about how their county team got on in the AI?

[pintsofguinness]

In fairness POG you did suggest it.

At no stage did I suggest it, maybe you could point it out where I did.  If I thought I'd say it!

I don't necessarily think they should but I do think that it may be coming and it may not be a bad thing, we are probably the only sports organisation that asks the best players to compete at various levels and then gives out to them if they complain. Remember that many lads are dual players at club level an IC player can be expected to train and play for at least 3 seperate teams in a given year. Would it be so bad if club players could play their championship without having to worry about how their county team got on in the AI?

We ack IC players to play IC and at club - I'd be more worried about the youngester playing, maybe minor, under 21, senior and schools/colleges football, another issue that needs addressing, but sure once again you'd think the IC players had it the toughest.  A large majority of IC players will only play the league and a couple of championship games in the summer so I don't think it's too much to ask that they go back to the club - Id say club players actually play more games than IC players.  That said I think I'd welcome a split in the organisation because I'm sick to the teeth of listening to yapping, crying IC players and an organisation led by complete imbeciles and as it is now if it wasn't for the club scene I'd be completely finished with the GAA.