Will the paying of grants affect your attendance at Inter-County games

[RadioGAAGAA]

Despite what some on here might say, a large proportion of the GAA community either supported or were indifferent to the grants proposal.

On what basis do you say this?


Looking around the various county boards that have discussed the grants (and subsequently refused to administer them), I think its quite clear what they feel about the grants. If you take the polls on here as a representative sample, then the majority clearly oppose the grants.

I don't see any evidence that points towards the majority being supportive or indifferent to the grants.

[lynchbhoy]

in case some may forget

the whole 'better expenses' for GAA players was the start of the 'thin edge of the wedge'
this grants for players is phase two
so the ball is rolling and the old argument that there is no indication that the goalposts will be moved is bullsiht

if you dont see that, then ,well its because youdont want to...but I recalldebate and indignation first time around in the early/mid 90's about expenses - and it wasnt that there were no expenses - its that they were not ENOUGH!
(costs were covered but the argument was that the players should get expenses that would mean they got a wee bit extra for their time.

So stop whinging that there is no precedent or indication of direction...you are wrong !

[his holiness nb]

Despite what some on here might say, a large proportion of the GAA community either supported or were indifferent to the grants proposal

Jesus are we back to pulling facts from our arses again. Where did you get that from?

There have been no polls to find this out so its purely opinion and the truth is neither side know the proportions of members who support them, so lets stop trotting out what you want to believe as truth.  

[darbyo]

Well apparently the Mayo board have met since their public rejection of the grants and the issue wasn't even raised (not an indication that they are bristling with indignation). There is no evidence either way to conclusively prove what the majority of GAA supporters think. But from people I speak to on the ground, it either doesn't interest them much or they are ok with it. Those who are vehemently opposed to this are making themselves heard the loudest, but that is always the way, as usual there is a silent majority out there. And I'd wager most of them just want to get on with playing side of it, they aren't too bothered whether the players get this grant or not.
                            But I don't think we should get into a debate about a side issue especially one with no conclusion. The main point of my post was that we have nothing to fear from these grants and that this isn't the thin edge of anything, well not unless we as an organisation democratically vote for it.

Well apparently the Mayo board have met since their public rejection of the grants and the issue wasn't even raised (not an indication that they are bristling with indignation). There is no evidence either way to conclusively prove what the majority of GAA supporters think. But from people I speak to on the ground, it either doesn't interest them much or they are ok with it. Those who are vehemently opposed to this are making themselves heard the loudest, but that is always the way, as usual there is a silent majority out there. And I'd wager most of them just want to get on with playing side of it, they aren't too bothered whether the players get this grant or not.
                            But I don't think we should get into a debate about a side issue especially one with no conclusion. The main point of my post was that we have nothing to fear from these grants and that this isn't the thin edge of anything, well not unless we as an organisation democratically vote for it.

So stop whinging that there is no precedent or indication of direction...you are wrong !

Bullshit, plain and simple. I remember having a class debate in school about whether the GAA should go professional or not, that was at least 15 years ago. I'm sure some people spoke about the possibility before that and I'm sure people will talk about 15, 50, 150 years from now.
                When I played minor football I got a hamstring injury and the club didn't want to pay for the physio treatment, now the minor team have a physio present at any championship match and any club player who needs treatment gets it without any question. So of course things change and move on and yes things will change in the future BUT PROFESSIONALISM, WHERE GAA PLAYERS GET PAID BY THE GAA FOR PLAYING GAA CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF THE DEMOCRATIC WILL OF THE ORGAINISATION SUPPORTS IT.
                 The majority of changes that have come about for players in the last 15 years or so have been for the better. The world is constantly changing and there has often been conflict in many walks of life to secure the rights of various groups. When workers started orgainising themselves and demanding better working conditions, they didn't continue agitating after reasonable working conditions were granted did they? If the GAA work with players meet reasonable demands then there is no reason why players will continue to look for more.

Jesus are we back to pulling facts from our arses again. Where did you get that from?

There have been no polls to find this out so its purely opinion and the truth is neither side know the proportions of members who support them, so lets stop trotting out what you want to believe as truth.

I just saw this after I had written most of the above so you'll see I agree with you that we don't really know, but you are one to talk about pulling things from your arse, most of the anti-grants post have been based on how they are talking for the majority of the grassroots and about what is definately going to happen in the future. When I ask people to lay out how professionalism is going to come to pass only tram can even offer an opinion. Talk about pulling facts from your arse.

[his holiness nb]

I just saw this after I had written most of the above so you'll see I agree with you that we don't really know, but you are one to talk about pulling things from your arse, most of the anti-grants post have been based on how they are talking for the majority of the grassroots and about what is definately going to happen in the future. When I ask people to lay out how professionalism is going to come to pass only tram can even offer an opinion. Talk about pulling facts from your arse.

Ok Darbyo, please show me which facts I pulled from my arse?
I dont recall claiming to speak on behalf of the grass roots, I am only one grass roots member.
A point I have made on several occasions is that nobody at my club has been asked for their opinion so how could either side claim to know what people are thinking.

[darbyo]

I'm afraid I have to go now hhnb but you'll notice that I said most 'anti-gpa' posters were claiming to speak on behalf of the grassroots and all of them arte talking about some future doomsday dcenario that will definately come to pass if these grants are accepted. As an anti-grant man you never once (that I can recall) questioned the validity of any of these claims based on factual proof. Yet when I post something which I subsequently qualify you claim I'm pulling facts out of my ass. So if you didn't claim to talk on behalf of the grassroots or use the thin edge of the wedge argument yourself you certainly supported those who did, and both those views are as factually unsupportable as what you pulled me up on.

[lynchbhoy]

So stop whinging that there is no precedent or indication of direction...you are wrong !

Bullshit, plain and simple. I remember having a class debate in school about whether the GAA should go professional or not, that was at least 15 years ago. I'm sure some people spoke about the possibility before that and I'm sure people will talk about 15, 50, 150 years from now.
                When I played minor football I got a hamstring injury and the club didn't want to pay for the physio treatment, now the minor team have a physio present at any championship match and any club player who needs treatment gets it without any question. So of course things change and move on and yes things will change in the future BUT PROFESSIONALISM, WHERE GAA PLAYERS GET PAID BY THE GAA FOR PLAYING GAA CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF THE DEMOCRATIC WILL OF THE ORGAINISATION SUPPORTS IT.
                 The majority of changes that have come about for players in the last 15 years or so have been for the better. The world is constantly changing and there has often been conflict in many walks of life to secure the rights of various groups. When workers started orgainising themselves and demanding better working conditions, they didn't continue agitating after reasonable working conditions were granted did they? If the GAA work with players meet reasonable demands then there is no reason why players will continue to look for more.

I am still attempting to see your point - especially where you can honestly refute my statement as bullsiht !

I think you are confusing natural progression with the demands of pay per play and semblences of professionalism in the GAA.

the aspect of better medical care - thats fine, but as medicine and care is evolving in our once backward country, I see this is progression. Finance matters also.

However, what crosses the line is the aspect of money in relation, proportional to or even inversely proportional to PLAYING gaelic games.
when you were debating professionalism in football/hurling - around that time the papers were full of quotes from certain players (the forerunners of the gpa) week in week out whining on about not getting enough expenses. It was proven that players were getting adequate milage and so on, but the thing was relaxed and players were given double the milage and then the sports gear came along, food and then holidays etc.

your point is not relevant to this argument, natural progression in GAA playing terms does not include more money for players above inflatory rates - that are payments for playig and some kind of quasi-professionalism , if not yet semi pro or full pro.


the slippery slope was started then and you have not indicated otherwise. so where willit end, given the 75milion euros the GAA are about to get from TV and advertising.
Go set up a Pro Gaelic games league and see how long you last.

[his holiness nb]

I'm afraid I have to go now hhnb but you'll notice that I said most 'anti-gpa' posters were claiming to speak on behalf of the grassroots and all of them arte talking about some future doomsday dcenario that will definately come to pass if these grants are accepted. As an anti-grant man you never once (that I can recall) questioned the validity of any of these claims based on factual proof.

Its not my responsibility to comment on every single comment that cant be backed up. And not doing so certainly doesnt mean I "pull facts from my arse" in any way.

Yet when I post something which I subsequently qualify you claim I'm pulling facts out of my ass.

You DIDNT qualify this claim, you merely said that lads you spoke to were either for it or didnt really care. That doesn qualify that statement at all!!
Most guys I have spoke to are against it, but I wouldnt dare claim that means the majority of members are against it!!
Rather than qualify this claim you actually admitted theres know way of knowing if what you said is true!!

So if you didn't claim to talk on behalf of the grassroots or use the thin edge of the wedge argument yourself you certainly supported those who did, and both those views are as factually unsupportable as what you pulled me up on.

My comments are my comments. I speak for myself. If I have posted in support of factually unsupportable posts please show me this.

Otherwise withdraw your comment about me!

[RadioGAAGAA]

Well apparently the Mayo board have met since their public rejection of the grants and the issue wasn't even raised (not an indication that they are bristling with indignation).

So... the Mayo board have publically rejected the grants... but you are trying to imply they don't really care too much?

There is no evidence either way to conclusively prove what the majority of GAA supporters think.

True - but all current evidence would point towards the majority being against the grants.

But I don't think we should get into a debate about a side issue especially one with no conclusion.

Fair enough - but this whole argument has no definite conclusion, none of us can say with 100% certainty what will happen in the future (and if any poster can, could you PM me the weekends lottery numbers  ).

The main point of my post was that we have nothing to fear from these grants and that this isn't the thin edge of anything, well not unless we as an organisation democratically vote for it.

I disagree entirely - these grants have made a fundamental change to the landscape of the GAA (you CANNOT deny that - whether you support or oppose the grants) - and there was no vote.

Bullshit, plain and simple. I remember having a class debate in school about whether the GAA should go professional or not, that was at least 15 years ago. I'm sure some people spoke about the possibility before that and I'm sure people will talk about 15, 50, 150 years from now.

When I played minor football I got a hamstring injury and the club didn't want to pay for the physio treatment, now the minor team have a physio present at any championship match and any club player who needs treatment gets it without any question. So of course things change and move on and yes things will change in the future BUT PROFESSIONALISM, WHERE GAA PLAYERS GET PAID BY THE GAA FOR PLAYING GAA CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF THE DEMOCRATIC WILL OF THE ORGAINISATION SUPPORTS IT.
                 
The majority of changes that have come about for players in the last 15 years or so have been for the better. The world is constantly changing and there has often been conflict in many walks of life to secure the rights of various groups. When workers started orgainising themselves and demanding better working conditions, they didn't continue agitating after reasonable working conditions were granted did they? If the GAA work with players meet reasonable demands then there is no reason why players will continue to look for more.

Not one bit of that offers me a single shred of reassurance that this is not the start of a very slippery slope. As lynchbhoy points out, IC players have been getting much better expenses in recent years, but nothing the GAA does will ever be enough to keep them happy.



Oh, and see the bit in bold - drop the silly arguments with semantics, we all know that the players wouldn't have played if they were not going to get paid. It fits the dictionary definition of professionalism.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I'm afraid I have to go now hhnb but you'll notice that I said most 'anti-gpa' posters were claiming to speak on behalf of the grassroots and all of them arte talking about some future doomsday dcenario that will definately come to pass if these grants are accepted.

I have almost surely posted some unqualified statements recently.


However, I have clearly linked back to the circumstantial evidence of local soccer and local rugby numerous times, and my arguments are stemming from that EVIDENCE. Contrary to the pro grant arguments, which are based on.......?

I have also made it clear that the opinions of the majority may be reflected in the poll on here, and in the positions of the various county boards on the issue.


The unfounded facts and the irrational opinions based on nothing have been coming from one side of this argument... and it isn't my side.

[darbyo]

Lynchbhoy, I like every other pro-grant poster (from what I can gather) on this site is against the GAA going professional. You claim these improvements are just a natural progression and to a degree you're right but the fact that players organised themselves and put pressure on the GAA quickened the process. More importantly many of the improvements that occurred at inter-county level found their way down to club level also.
                    Again lets not get off point here and argue about little issues, the point I'm making is that there is no reason to feel that these grants are the thin edge of any wedge. What IC players have got is IMO fair and others would agree, the expenses that players get may be over and above what they actually spend but again most won't lose sleep over that. However if there is a clear indication that certain people are trying to force the GAA down the road of professionalism then they would find themselves on the outside looking in.
                               Maybe the majority of GAA people are against this grant but a significant minority are in favour of it IMO. But the general feeling amongst GAA people that I know is one of indifference. That wouldn't be the case if we were talking about the GAA paying this money. So I can't see how anyone thinks this will lead to the ruination of the GAA and no-one who says it will, can explain to the rest of us how.

[his holiness nb]

Darbyo, fair enough, we shouldnt get distracted by the small issues, but when you say I am one to talk about pulling facts from my arse because somebody else did (not me) you must surely expect a reaction??

[RadioGAAGAA]

That wouldn't be the case if we were talking about the GAA paying this money.

The truth on that will come out in the wash.