Strike averted

[AZOffaly]

Denn, I am far from happy with this, but just to clarify: *Everyone* who meets the criteria laid down is eligible for some sort of grant. The Kerrys, Dublins, Kilkennys etc of this world will be eligible for the Performance Related grant, while the other 40 county panels will be eligible for the 'Improvement Incentive' grant.

There will be more money per player for the 1st type of grant, and even within that, more for the winners than the quarter finalists, but there is money there for everyone.

[Bord na Mona man]

I don't think we need to worry about players going to court to force transfers, that they aren't entitled to under current rules.
A sporting organisation will be allowed its eligibility rules as it sees fit. The GAA's rules on county transfers are fairly clear.

If someone successfully sued to allow them play county hurling/football for a county that aren't eligible to play for, by the same token:
- A man could take the GAA to court for sexual discrimination for not allowing him play in the ladies football championship.
- A 25 year old could claim age discrimination for not being allowed play for his club or county's minor team.

No more than a Brazilian international soccer player could take FIFA to court and be allowed play for Ireland, despite having no Irish passport, ancestors or whatever else might qualify him.
Or an Irish player go to court half way through a World Cup and want to transfer to Brazil or Italy, when Ireland get knocked out.
He could cite loss of earnings and everything else. Do people really think that courts would grant him the transfer?

Before anyone mentions it, the Bosman ruling wouldn't apply in a GAA scenario.

[Lone Shark]

I wasn't going out to compare him in terms of personality, merely in terms of the issue and how it was handled. I did point out that it was more than a touch over dramatic, but it's hard to ignore the parallels between what was then and is now a complete appeasement deal. That is where I see the comparison. This fight could have been won if we took on the GPA here on this issue, whereas instead they will be a lot harder beaten the next time around. I appreciate that the language may have been interpreted as harsh, but does anyone think it was any less harsh than what Dessie used in the Star?


As for the transfers - the key difference here is that people can transfer across counties, and as we all know, the worse you are a footballer/hurler the easier you'll be let go. If a player can establish that he has been blocked from transferring for moderately legitimate reasons and that he has been denied the chance to earn money fom doing so, it leaves us in a very dangerous situation. If I was the lawyer for the a player in such a situation, I would make the following points:

(1) My client has moved residence as such is now resident in his new county
(2) Ladies and Underage games are designed to allow a forum for the young and female to play in an environment where they will be protected from the greater physical power of adult men - this does not apply here.
(3) The GAA's rules are arbitrary in their own way, and no doubt there are countless precedents for whatever you wanted to prove.

Perhaps I was being a little facetious when I said no judge would bat an eyelid, but you can't tell me it would be thrown out.

As for the soccer comparison, the money throws the argument off completely. A player cannot (nominally anyway) make extra money from switching nations - international soccer is unpaid. Plus it would be across jurisdictions, and finally the passport rule is fairly solid - it's only on our own island and a few other places like that where it gets a bit messy. GAA has no such fallback.

[Bord na Mona man]

International soccer players do get money, albeit token by comparison to their club earnings, but certainly a lot more than the GAA grants/payments. It is common for them to get bonuses for reaching the latter stages of major tournaments. England were on £300,000 a man if they won the '06 World Cup. Even beyond that a player could cite lost endorsement earnings because he plays for a soccer association that doesn't qualify for major tournaments. There is plenty of basis to pursue a case.
Should Alex Bruce (lets pretend he's a great player), a British passport holder, born and reared in England, not be entitled to re-declare himself for England if he was worth his place and for a chance of bagging £300,000 in 4 year time? Are FIFA's restrictive laws not equally open to challenge?

The example may be far fetched, but so would a GAA "transfer to random county, without satisfying any criteria" case pursued on a lost earnings basis.

I don't see how the passport rule in soccer is more solid than the residence, birth, parent rules for playing/transferring to GAA counties. Players can transfer counties, once they fulfill certain criteria. The rules as they stand have plenty of scope to be flaunted, without recourse to the courts to get them ripped up, as Thomas Walsh recently proved.

[stephenite]

I've bought it up on the other thread and was wondering if any of the legal eagles here could clarify something for me.

Regardless of the GAA and the GPA agreeing to a tiered payment system, is there any potential for legal action along these lines.

For example, Conor Mortimer could quite easily prove that he has put in as much training as Colm Cooper for the duration of last season (I don't know whether he did or not, it's just an example Dessie)

Could he claim in court that he should also receive the same amount as players who played in the All Ireland final?

[Frank Casey]

We've had fellows already running to the courts cos they would take their medicine, or felf unfairly treated by the disciplinary system if you like. Can you imagine hos a few bob might incentivise the attraction of the four courts?

[Tatler Jack]

Liam Horan has a great piece in today's Examiner that sums up very well the views that many here hold over this whole deal. Unfortunately it does not seem to be available on the online edition. Finishes up by saying "the fat lady and the fat cats have sung". How true.

[Armagh4SamAgain]

im aginst all this 

[Bord na Mona man]

I've bought it up on the other thread and was wondering if any of the legal eagles here could clarify something for me.

Regardless of the GAA and the GPA agreeing to a tiered payment system, is there any potential for legal action along these lines.

For example, Conor Mortimer could quite easily prove that he has put in as much training as Colm Cooper for the duration of last season (I don't know whether he did or not, it's just an example Dessie)

Could he claim in court that he should also receive the same amount as players who played in the All Ireland final?

He could take up the matter with the Sports Council who administer the grants. He would have as much a case as any boxer, runner or rower who feels they aren't getting a fair crack of the whip with the allocation of grants. This wouldn't have anything to do with the GAA though.

[Farrandeelin]

Having been lurking around the board for the past month, I've finally gotten a chance to post again. I think it's a really sad day that players who should be honoured to put on the county jersey have to get a grant to put the jersey on. There are people like me who couldn't play for my club due to health problems. Perhaps if I was playing I might have some gripes, but I would remember that it IS SUPPOSED to be voluntary afterall and if I didn't want to do it, I wouldn't have to etc. I have heard of numerous players who had to quit panels due to work commitments. Basically what I'm trying to say is that the GPA deal is a total cave in by the GAA and that I'm in agreement with stephenite, Loneshark and nearly every other member of the board in what they say about the deal. Oh and dessie, I'm not a jealous f**ker either, just a normal person that cannot understand how members of your organisation need to be paid to put on the county jersey, because no matter what anyone says getting grants means getting money and that means being paid, right dessie? (I've left out the capital 'd' in your name dessie to show my disgust)

[blast05]

Some friends of mine, who are against the GPA, have failed to see the hypocrisy and the double standards of it all.

All along they and other members of the GAA have been talking about the GPA being elitist but it's something the GAA has been practising for over three decades. Remember this trip is the All Stars. Not too many club players have made it on to that plane.

Jaysus, thats fairly confused mumbo jumbo .... talking through his arse a bit there

[pintsofguinness]

What would Adrian Logan know about the GAA?

[Aghdavoyle]

Exactly right POG.

[blast05]

A couple of thoughts that i can't really square off so to speak.....

Prior to the agreement to give grants to GAA players, grants from the Irish Sports council to elite athletes throughout the country were made to cover the costs incurred in training, to allow the atheletes take time off work for spells of altitude training or whatever, to be able to receive treatment from world leading sports therapists, to re-locate to a more suitable location for training (e.g.: David Gillick to Loughborough)  ..... the list i am sure would be lengthy if you were to find what everyone who receives a grant actually does with it.
One thing i am sure of is that everything in the list that would be applicable to an inter county player currently is paid for by the county boards. The stated purpose of the grants according to the press release is:

to meet additional costs associated with elite team performance and to encourage aspiring teams and players to reach the highest levels of sporting endeavour

All current costs associated with the above will continue to be paid for by county boards. If a team manager in consultation with the players decide to have an even more professional approach by wanting 3 physios at every training session rather than 1 and want 2 week long training camps in Portugal or wherever then what happens if the county board say 'no' we can't afford it - will all 30 panellists agree to pool their expenses for another training camp and to pay for the physios    Not on your life.

So what exactly is the purpose of the grants ? GAA players that will receive grants from the sports council will be unique above all other sports people who also receive them in that their expenses will not be necessary to in order to play in an elite team or in order to achieve the required level of sprting endeavour

[darbyo]

Prior to the agreement to give grants to GAA players, grants from the Irish Sports council to elite athletes throughout the country were made to cover the costs incurred in training, to allow the atheletes take time off work for spells of altitude training or whatever, to be able to receive treatment from world leading sports therapists, to re-locate to a more suitable location for training (e.g.: David Gillick to Loughborough)  ..... the list i am sure would be lengthy if you were to find what everyone who receives a grant actually does with it.
One thing i am sure of is that everything in the list that would be applicable to an inter county player currently is paid for by the county boards. The stated purpose of the grants according to the press release is:

I'm amazed at the concern many grassroots GAA people are recently developing for the minority sport athletes in this country. They all deserve more than what they are getting from the government but why should GAA players not get what they can from the government? like I've already said they help earn enough for the government