Players on Strike?/Real Debate (Merged)

[tyrone86]

counties field the next best 15 as if nothing happened.  What's the big deal?

how long would county fans and sponsors accept that before serious pressure would be brought to bear on headquarters?

In my humble opinion, the amateur status and ethos of our games is more important than winning All-Irelands. End of story. The elite players get more from the game than they lose. As Paddy Heaney said today they're chancing their hand - who wouldn't want a sports grant for playing the game they profess to love?

[Balboa]

I f they want payment maybe they should f**k off over to Australia to play AFL and let players play that know they are playing for nothing bar expenses, gear, team holiday etc.

[Pangurban]

The association is bigger than a few mercenary players and their quick buck PR men. I would not even give them option of striking, i would suspend them from any activity within the G.A.A. until such time as they are prepared to accept and uphold the ameuteur ethos which has been democratically decided and supported by the over-whelming majority of the membership.

[pintsofguinness]

counties field the next best 15 as if nothing happened.  What's the big deal?

how long would county fans and sponsors accept that before serious pressure would be brought to bear on headquarters?

Yeah it'd be annoying, a load of ill informed views being threw around but you've come through that before.

[Lone Shark]

I don't understand why nobody does the obvious and pins the GPA down. There are so many questions that they couldn't answer, and yet no-one asks them. Why are the media giving Dessie and co such an easy ride?

Some examples being....

(1) What assurances can you give that should the government pull the funding, or refuse to increase it in line with inflation, you will not ask the GAA to make up the shortfall?

(2) The expenses are recompense for your members claiming that they are out of pocket. How do you propose that players substantiate this? Or do you consider it fair that a teacher, who is not out of pocket at all, be given the same compensation as a tradesman who could potentially earn thousands in the time he spends training?

(3) What do you propose to do with the inevitable follow on claims from ladies footballers and camogie players? Do you think they should receive the same, or will you stand up and claim that ye train way harder than they do and that they should get nothing?

(4) The government will set a limit per panel - what is the GPA's line on who these recipients should be? Who gets the grant - they guy who joins the panel in December but is cut in April, or the guy who was in Australia for the year but came back in late march?

(5) If ye go on strike, what will be your view towards club players who choose to take their chance to play for the county in ye're stead? Ye can hardly complain that these "pass the picket" as it were, since ye don't even allow these guys full membership of the union in the first place....

(6) Will your strike include all GAA games, or will players merely pick and choose the elements that suit them? Will Ben O'Connor's strike include Newtownshandrum's likely Munster and All Ireland campaign, or will it just be the Cork games in the winter that have no medals on offer? Ditto Aaron Kernan for Crossmaglen, or Cha Fitz for Ballyhale? (Not meant as a slight on any of these players, merely the obvious examples)


I'm sure there's more. As I mentioned before, I've emailed the GPA asking about all these things - needless to say I got no answer. If some journalist with better access is reading, I'd love if you could take up the torch.....

[gaagaa]

let the players strike - see whre it gets them.
how many nurses or carers for elderly in their homes would this supposed allowance pay for.  if the county boards paid the expense claims on time it would help alleviate a lot of bad will.
its got beyond a joke - we all want to see fair play but wot about the u8, u10, u12 managers & club administrators who get crap year in & year out from other club members who do nothing to help out?

[stephenite]

http://spailpin.blogspot.com/

My fellow Ballina man says it better than me, again.

[Denn Forever]

Striking is a serious offence.
A 3 month suspension should be given to any player who strikes!

At last some humour.  Also check out an Spailpin fanach.  He sets some pertenant questions.

[Star Spangler]

Irish Independent, 12th October 2007

Strike ballot to go ahead

GPA chief executive Dessie Farrell says his members will be balloted on strike action after reporting no progress from last night's meeting with Sports Minister Seamus Brennan

Friday October 12 2007

PLANS to ballot GAA players on taking strike action are to go ahead after the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) last night reported no progress following their meeting with Sports Minister Seamus Brennan.

The latest development means that the country's best-known GAA stars are a step closer to taking the unprecedented step of mounting a strike ahead of next year's inter-county match programme.

A GPA delegation, spearheaded by chief executive Dessie Farrell and also including Cork hurling goalkeeper Donal Og Cusack, met with Minister Brennan on the long-standing issue of allocating sports grants to hurlers and footballers on a scaled basis similar to how the Irish Sports Council distribute money to other athletes on the basis of performance.

The last Government, in which John O'Donoghue was Sports Minister, agreed to provide a payment of €5m to the GAA for the grants, but the matter has become log-jammed in the method of how the money will be paid.

Following last night's meeting, the GPA reported no significant progress, and while it is hoped to have a joint meeting with the Minister and the GAA next week, Farrell confirmed that the GPA would be proceeding with a ballot for strike in the next couple of days.

"Ultimately, there was no progress of any significance on the issue of sports grants. That is not to say it will happen at some point in the future," Farrell stated.

"However, we welcome the fact that the Minister has signalled his intention to assist in the process. We hope to have a joint meeting with the GAA next week, but we will proceed with our plans to ballot members on strike action."

The GPA will be heartened by the fact that last night former GAA president Sean Kelly said he had every sympathy for the players' organisation.

However,Kelly said that he doesn't believe that the players will withdraw their services from the playing fields of the country. The Kerryman was speaking at the All Island High Performance conference hosted jointly by Sport Northern Ireland and The Irish Sports Council

"A players' strike would be bad for our games but I don't think it will come to that," he said.

"In some respects the GPA have missed the boat but in others maybe they are just being tactical in talking about strike action at this time of year because they wouldn't have a chance to take such action until January or February.

"So I tend to think the threat of the strike is more of a warning shot than anything else and there's a good three or four months to work it out to make sure there will be no strike and the players get what they have been promised.

"Hopefully the issue will be resolved as soon as possible and in fairness to the GPA this has been going on for five years now," he said.

[AZOffaly]

I must admit I'm a tad confused now. Firstly, they made no progress with Seamus Brennan. That implies, or at least I infer from that. that they realise it's the government they must deal with. Secondly, however, a strike would be seen as action against the GAA. Who exactly are they in disagreement with?

The GAA back their claims for the grant, but from the outset they said, and recently reaffirmed, that the GAA itself would not hold the money, or mete it out, and that the grant would not be subsumed as part of a larger infrastructure grant as this would blur the lines as to who is responsible for it. I would imagine this line is coming out of principled grounds, but also pragmatism as there would be confusion, to say the least, were the government to pull the grant at some stage in the future, leaving the GAA potentially holding the baby. It seems to me as if the GAA is fairly clear here, for once, in saying we back our players, but are not going to poistion ourselves in any way that would leave us open to having precedent for pay-for-play, or for GAA funded grants to players,  in the future.

The Government, on the other hand, seem to be willing to stump up the money, at least for now, but are unwilling to oversee the payments as well. Perhaps the Sports Council are unwilling to keep tabs on who is supposed to get what. It seems to me as if the GPA themselves should be the body responsible for doling out the payments. They can deal with the headaches involved, and people crying foul if they don't get what they think they deserve. Are the government or the GAA uncomfortable with that scenario. I can imagine the GAA might be, but I haven't heard anything to that effect.

Anyway, it definitely seems to me as if a strike against the GAA is fairly pointless in this matter. Or do the GPA feel that Bertie won't go to Croker unless their members are playing? It's a weird one. It's like a lad coming home from a bad day at work and taking it out on his wife.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

I have to admit the one thing I can't understand when everyone whinges about the possibility of players being paid that there seems to be universal acceptance that coaches, managers, physios etc etc can all be paid....that the programme makers get paid, security staff at matches etc etc......

When people talk about the amateur status it is only the players who are amateur...

[AZOffaly]

There is not universal acceptance that coaches, managers etc get paid. I would be totally against that, apart from legitimate expenses. Outside people employed by the GAA to do a paid service is a different matter. Those people are not necessarily even members of the organisation, so why would they provide catering services etc for free? That's their job.

Regarding stewards, I thought they weren't paid anyway. At least not the volunteers. There may be some lads getting paid by eventSec or whatever they are called, but that's the same point as the caterers.

[deiseach]

Few people want coaches to be paid, it's no different to players. The GAA employs development coaches, but they are paying people for performing WORK. Paying players and coaches of teams would mean paying people for something that is meant to be FUN. If players find kicking / hitting a ball around to be such a chore, they should give it up.

[Clubmember]

Lads,

I just joined this board thinking that it would be a place to come discuss GAA matters in an open forum but instead it seems to be fairly closed off affair.  I am a club player and member and while I have very limited time (as I work 9-5) aswell as training & playing commitments, coaching underage team and helping out in whatever way I can with club, I have a couple of minutes now to post a comment.

I think it's a real shame that there isn't any proper debate in place here. It seems to just be a place for a few browned off individuals to rant and rave and make personal attacks under the mask of the faceless internet usernames.

Anyone interested in having a debate involving actual facts where people can express their views in a normal manner without facing a barrage of comments about how they don't really belong in the GAA unless they tow the party line would be most refreshing! 

I have read through a few threads here about different topics and the common factor seems to be that people are constantly clapping themselves on the back for the work they do.  I do it because I love it and opening up Croke Park, recognising inter county players, won't make any difference to that.
As I say I love being a volunteer and enjoy nothing more than being part of a winning team or coaching kids and seeing them develop in great players of the future whom, I hope I will one day see playing in Croke Park for their county.

I'm always amazed when I bring my son playing soccer (he also plays football & hurling before you start) that all the people volunteering there also line pitches, put up goal posts, fundraise, do all the stuff we do and yet they celebrate their game, their players ..worship them in fact, despite the fact that they are professional it hasn't dimmed their enthusiasm for the game. 
In my community soccer & rugby (managed and run by volunteers) are doing so well that they are threatening the local GAA club who have a paid coach and other paid staff. The GAA clubs response has been to get players to choose either soccer/rugby or GAA (at 10 years of age). As a result a lot of people have chosen soccer/rugby because of attitude of GAA.
I have digressed slightly here into another subject but my overall point is what are good honest GAA people like ourselves afraid of? We have the strongest association in Irish sport, we have a unique product in our national games so let's promote it!

As I'm sure you are all aware the GAA IS an elitist organisation. Any organisation that has a two tier system (CLUB, INTER COUNTY) is,  so why not just acknowledge that? If you want an amateur organisation have it and start campaigning for the following: 

REMOVAL OF ALL INTER COUNTY COMPETITION FOR A ONE TIER CLUB SYSTEM
REMOVAL OF SPONSORSHIP ON JERSIES
REMOVAL OF ALL ADVERTISING IN COUNTY AND CLUB GROUNDS
REMOVAL OF TV MONIES AND RIGHTS TO SELL SAME
REMOVAL OF ALL CORPORATE SPONSORSHIPS
STOP PAYMENTS TO INTER COUNTY MANAGERS AND CLUB MANAGERS (We all know this goes on)
CLOSE SALE OF PREMIUM AND CORPORATE HOSPITALITY AT CROKE PARK AND COUNTY GROUNDS
CLOSE DOWN THE COMPANY THAT IS CROKE PARK STADIUM
AND LASTLY :
NO PAID OFFICIALS......this includes :
Croke Park officials 
Club coaches
Groundskeepers & club management - (grounds keeping/pitch management/fixtures management/coaches etc)

When the GAA introduced sponsorship on county jerseys, this association changed.  Ask anyone involved in sport, anywhere in the world...once money is handed over a pound of flesh has to be delivered.

Please people ..lets face the facts....money has helped build this fantastic association on the backs of the biggest and best volunteer effort seen anywhere in the world and everyone should be commended for that from the bottom up. Let's embrace our success and build on it and make it work to our benefit.  The single biggest cash cow in the GAA i(you're not going to like this) but it's the inter county players. They are the ones who generate and sustain the multi millions that this association is in receipt of every year through sponsorship/gate recipts/Tv money etc etc etc. that is then in turn filtered down to your county board and club.  Also huge amounts of money are generated for this economy from our games. To give you an example : ONE international rugby match in Lansdowne road generates aprox €50 million for  revenue, through revenues taken in from hotels/bars/food etc overa week-end stay in Dublin. So can you imagine what's taken in over the many full houses (twice size of old Lansdowne) takes in? As far as I'm aware (would need to check this) but players are hoping to get €5million of this?(more than that generated for revenue during one full house in Croker!) 

Let's do what we love because we love it. Ask any inter county player why they do what they do it's because THEY LOVE IT and would die for their jersey but when you are making multi millions euro deals off their back you cannot expect them to not want at least some respect and acknowledgement for it.   Poets/artists etc are entitled to grants for their contribution to society, amateur athletes are entitled to grants, professional athletes get tax breaks but still, here we are, telling ourselves our finest financial asset is "replaceable", "worthless" and will not get any support from GAA community over this grants issue. I and a lot of genuine club and GAA people I know are 100% behind these lads and because they don't have the time to sit here arguing on these boards all day does not mean that their opinion doesn't count. In fact I think you'll find that most people will only vocalise negatives instead of positives which brings me back to my original point of a sensible debating forum for genuine GAA fans, as I don't see that here. I will do my best to come in and out as much as possible to argue the toss.

By the way if you don't agree with players  getting reward for keeping the association in such good financial health then challenge Nickey Brennan, Liam Mulivhill, your club committee and your county board to move back to an amateur game because at the moment the GAA (Intercounty level) is a professional game in every single manner apart from the fact that players (and some managers) are not paid

[Clubmember]

Lads,

I just joined this board thinking that it would be a place to come discuss GAA matters in an open forum but instead it seems to be fairly closed off affair.  I am a club player and member and while I have very limited time (as I work 9-5) aswell as training & playing commitments, coaching underage team and helping out in whatever way I can with club, I have a couple of minutes now to post a comment.

I think it's a real shame that there isn't any proper debate in place here. It seems to just be a place for a few browned off individuals to rant and rave and make personal attacks under the mask of the faceless internet usernames.

Anyone interested in having a debate involving actual facts where people can express their views in a normal manner without facing a barrage of comments about how they don't really belong in the GAA unless they tow the party line would be most refreshing! 

I have read through a few threads here about different topics and the common factor seems to be that people are constantly clapping themselves on the back for the work they do.  I do it because I love it and opening up Croke Park, recognising inter county players, won't make any difference to that.
As I say I love being a volunteer and enjoy nothing more than being part of a winning team or coaching kids and seeing them develop in great players of the future whom, I hope I will one day see playing in Croke Park for their county.

I'm always amazed when I bring my son playing soccer (he also plays football & hurling before you start) that all the people volunteering there also line pitches, put up goal posts, fundraise, do all the stuff we do and yet they celebrate their game, their players ..worship them in fact, despite the fact that they are professional it hasn't dimmed their enthusiasm for the game. 
In my community soccer & rugby (managed and run by volunteers) are doing so well that they are threatening the local GAA club who have a paid coach and other paid staff. The GAA clubs response has been to get players to choose either soccer/rugby or GAA (at 10 years of age). As a result a lot of people have chosen soccer/rugby because of attitude of GAA.
I have digressed slightly here into another subject but my overall point is what are good honest GAA people like ourselves afraid of? We have the strongest association in Irish sport, we have a unique product in our national games so let's promote it!

As I'm sure you are all aware the GAA IS an elitist organisation. Any organisation that has a two tier system (CLUB, INTER COUNTY) is,  so why not just acknowledge that? If you want an amateur organisation have it and start campaigning for the following: 

REMOVAL OF ALL INTER COUNTY COMPETITION FOR A ONE TIER CLUB SYSTEM
REMOVAL OF SPONSORSHIP ON JERSIES
REMOVAL OF ALL ADVERTISING IN COUNTY AND CLUB GROUNDS
REMOVAL OF TV MONIES AND RIGHTS TO SELL SAME
REMOVAL OF ALL CORPORATE SPONSORSHIPS
STOP PAYMENTS TO INTER COUNTY MANAGERS AND CLUB MANAGERS (We all know this goes on)
CLOSE SALE OF PREMIUM AND CORPORATE HOSPITALITY AT CROKE PARK AND COUNTY GROUNDS
CLOSE DOWN THE COMPANY THAT IS CROKE PARK STADIUM
AND LASTLY :
NO PAID OFFICIALS......this includes :
Croke Park officials 
Club coaches
Groundskeepers & club management - (grounds keeping/pitch management/fixtures management/coaches etc)

When the GAA introduced sponsorship on county jerseys, this association changed.  Ask anyone involved in sport, anywhere in the world...once money is handed over a pound of flesh has to be delivered.

Please people ..lets face the facts....money has helped build this fantastic association on the backs of the biggest and best volunteer effort seen anywhere in the world and everyone should be commended for that from the bottom up. Let's embrace our success and build on it and make it work to our benefit.  The single biggest cash cow in the GAA i(you're not going to like this) but it's the inter county players. They are the ones who generate and sustain the multi millions that this association is in receipt of every year through sponsorship/gate recipts/Tv money etc etc etc. that is then in turn filtered down to your county board and club.  Also huge amounts of money are generated for this economy from our games. To give you an example : ONE international rugby match in Lansdowne road generates aprox €50 million for  revenue, through revenues taken in from hotels/bars/food etc overa week-end stay in Dublin. So can you imagine what's taken in over the many full houses (twice size of old Lansdowne) takes in? As far as I'm aware (would need to check this) but players are hoping to get €5million of this?(more than that generated for revenue during one full house in Croker!) 

Let's do what we love because we love it. Ask any inter county player why they do what they do it's because THEY LOVE IT and would die for their jersey but when you are making multi millions euro deals off their back you cannot expect them to not want at least some respect and acknowledgement for it.   Poets/artists etc are entitled to grants for their contribution to society, amateur athletes are entitled to grants, professional athletes get tax breaks but still, here we are, telling ourselves our finest financial asset is "replaceable", "worthless" and will not get any support from GAA community over this grants issue. I and a lot of genuine club and GAA people I know are 100% behind these lads and because they don't have the time to sit here arguing on these boards all day does not mean that their opinion doesn't count. In fact I think you'll find that most people will only vocalise negatives instead of positives which brings me back to my original point of a sensible debating forum for genuine GAA fans, as I don't see that here. I will do my best to come in and out as much as possible to argue the toss.

By the way if you don't agree with players  getting reward for keeping the association in such good financial health then challenge Nickey Brennan, Liam Mulivhill, your club committee and your county board to move back to an amateur game because at the moment the GAA (Intercounty level) is a professional game in every single manner apart from the fact that players (and some managers) are not paid