An Dún v Muineachán

[cavanmaniac]

Down fans are a curious bunch, but then again I suppose no different from other supporters in that a win papers over all ills while a defeat marks the end of the world. Gauging the reaction after beating us and the tenor of comments here after losing to Monaghan there seems to be little or no middle ground at all.

Some Down fans over estimated their team's worth after beating a Cavan side that was well in it with them until tiring in the final ten minutes. No reason to get over excited.

Now Down are the world's worst after this defeat, but again, I don't see much reason to be too depressed. To my neutral eye, Down were dominant and in control and had the game practically won until Monaghan opened them up for the goal wit their first attack of consequence for some time. Stephen Kearney's point looked to have killed Monaghan off and in actual fact, I don't think the Farney men had done much in the way of attacking in the previous 15 mins? They looked out of it to me although naturally they always retained the threat with Hanratty etc. on the field.

Aidan Carr looks a very very good prospect, I'd lay off him if I was a Down fan, did a hell of a lot of positive things and was almost flawless from place kicks. Packie Downey looks very limited. Benny is like Jason Reilly - goal obsessed, poor point kicking ability and something of a one trick pony when he plays to type, needs to innovate a wee bit and can still be a match winner. Dan Gordon had an excellent game. Defensively Down are poor - is it just me or did they not tackle with the same close-in ferocity and hassling as against us? - and the long ball in hurt them yesterday, it was a shame Cavan didn't drop big men into attack until the game was lost in Newry because it looked to me like we might have got some change if we'd tried it earlier.

Three games should progress Down a lot under new management ahead of the qualifiers but like ourselves, there's alot of sharks in there. I'd nearly take another home game with Down!

As for Monaghan, they look a very decent team but they have the same defensive naivete and loosness that Down have, even allowing for the fact that it was their first game. Derry will be a different prospect and with the Oak Leafers traditionally strong at the back, Monaghan's best line may struggle to make the same impact. Hanratty looks class and as we all know Freeman has the stuff too. A few very decent looking layers elsewhere on the pitch as well, McQuaid did very well rading upfield. Could be a good year for Farney if they get over Derry, I wouldn't totally agree with Caitlin's dim praise of Donegal above - they have made big strides this year and that was a very good Armagh team that made them look so poor but they got the bit of luck and will build on that display. That theory will be tested v Tyrone but Donegal still favourites in my opinion, although in an Ulster final where they'd be raging favourites if playing Monaghan, they might struggle with the expectation.

Well done to Monaghan anyway.

[Fear Boirche]

the monaghan defenders were getting stuck into our forwards throughout the whole game and in particular they obviously had a game plan to rough up benny.......

A plan which involved walking over to him, bumping into him and then throwing themselves to the ground clutching their faces. Is that the type of tactics you want Down employing?

[bcarrier]

McVeigh - Agree with wobbler about kickouts . Our lack of variety is shocking. It is time for a change.

Full back line - D Rooney lucky to stay on. Did reasaonably well on freeman. McCartan was missed. We dont have many options.

Half back line. B Grant lucky top stay on. We struggle for pace throughout backs.

Midfield. Both outstanding

Half forwards.I thought A Carr did Ok. It was pity he missed one of his easiest free chances when Down most needed it though. Kearney to strt next time out.

Full Forwards. Brutal.

[thewobbler]

I'd agree cavanmaniac that the Down support are of a knee-jerk nature, but this was truly disappointing. I didn't overestimate Down after Cavan, but the second half of that game was encouraging, especially from a managerial point of view. About 15 posts ago on this thread, I highlighted a series of problems that have dogged Down throughout this decade - but during the Cavan replay, for the first time since Derry beat us in Newry a couple of years ago, those problems didn't really exist. In the Cavan game, we were prudent enough to play an extra defender back once was Lyng was sent off, we had no problems with breaking ball, our kickouts were varied, and when it was obvious that Benny wasn't going to count, the rest of our forwards were brought into play and they all responded well. For possibly the first time ever, it looked like a Down team had been set up with the opposition in mind. Fast forward a fortnight, and we're seemingly back to square one.


Regarding individuals, the criticism of Aidan Carr is well over the top. He's no Brian McGuigan, but over the past three games I'd say he's been the closest thing we've had to a centre half-forward since Shane Mulholland went to Friar Tuck's, never to be seen again.

[amallon]

I'd say he's been the closest thing we've had to a centre half-forward since Shane Mulholland went to Friar Tuck's, never to be seen again.

 

[bridgegael]

down need to take coulter out off full forward line, f##king wasted in there.  i gaurentee if he played in half forward he would score alot more and play alot better.

[bcarrier]

I agree that Coulter should come out of the full forward line.

I'd put him on the bench though.

[Brick Tamlin]

id be inclined to agree.
bottom line for me is -
- Ronan Murtagh Experiment at wing half failed yesterday - HE IS A FORWARD. - Nightmare opening 20 and marginally better throughout.
- Coulter's talent is unquestionable but we simply are not getting enough out of him, for supposedly one of the deadliest finsihers in the game he looked like he couldnt round a man yesterday, he couldnt take simple score taking options and generally failed (again) to do what he is in there to do - cause the defence endless headaches.
- Rooney is not and wont be a full back, its isnt fair on him to play him there and expect results.
- James Mc Govern has now made too many mistakes in his county senior career to date to be considered ahead of Kearney etc for the next game - simply based on his error count he should be dropped.
- Why have we got defenders on the line who either will never be used and are thus starved of club football, or are just there to pick splinters out of their arse..its a blatant vte of  no confidence on managers behalf not givin any of them a runout - mcguigan got roasted throughout (and he wasnt the only one) and yet he wasnt subbed.
- Murphy again ran himself into the ground workin his butt off and gave an immense dieplay of work rate in the 1st half, but he clearly tired and faded in 2nd half, which in turn allowed finlay to effectively win the game for monaghan in last 10 mins, why wasnt murphy replaced for fresh legs or someone to keep tabs on finlay.
- Grant & Clarke both sound enough and kept it quite together at the back when all else was crumbling around them.

to say its disappointing is an understatement. Its gut wrenching, and the only thing to do is get back at it again and bounce back, this team now needs to show some f**kin bottle and react in a positive way. And if (as is the habit with a select few) they decide the best way to do this is go on beer for 3 days then unfortunately we are going to be re visiting Sligo-esque games again.

i have faith in management and i do believe that things are better than what they were under o rourke but as i said before its now that we can really see how far ths particular bunch of players have come.

[charlie stubbs]

brick, this the same ronan murtagh who is a better half back than aaron kernan

[greygoose]

the monaghan defenders were getting stuck into our forwards throughout the whole game and in particular they obviously had a game plan to rough up benny.......

A plan which involved walking over to him, bumping into him and then throwing themselves to the ground clutching their faces. Is that the type of tactics you want Down employing?

Now your reply Fear i find is stupid, Catch yourself on.. I think i was stating the obvious that the Down defenders were not as aggressive or even as cute as their Monaghan counterparts... 

[Caitlin]

Cavanmaniac and the wobbler have it about right.
We are a fair to middlin team who have played 3 games against fair to middlin teams.A couple of points :
Our defenders are good ,honest footballers and I have serious respect for the effort and pride they put into the shirt.They are all young (  Cole the oldest at 26) and learning the game. They aren't paid and don't need anonymous posters calling them shit ( I see Cloc Mor has gone quiet since he was put in his place).Apart from the much critisized , and badly missed , Dan Mc Cartan, they are more creative than destructive and we probably need a balance of a few DJ/Brian Burns/Conor Deegan/Tommy Mc Govern/Mark Turley/Tom O'Hare/Leo Murphy types. But where are they ?I see plenty of football and don't know of any useful defender who has not been given a chance. Ronan Murtagh is an excellent half-back and should remain. Murphy or Doyle at CHB, Dee Raffery at corner -back and I still believe Colgan will come good, but not this year.
Second point is our game plan. Sexton,Hughes and Mc Govern spent more time in our half than in theirs- the excellent Aidan Carr not far behind-again, I'm with Cavanmaniac. Hanratty's second goal came from panic - players get tired in that heat and rational thought goes out the window- that's what your man Keilty preaches at the SAQ training.I think Down were caught by a very dodgey free-kick, moved forward quickly, and Rory Woods, fresh on, exploited it to set up the goal.We need to put teams away but the basic game plan is sound.
The third issue is Benny. A rare talent but we are not getting the right return.I would keep him in the corner but vary the attack more- the Armagh diagonal ball could be effective but we need Daniel in the other corner. Packy is still our best bet at FF but he is still only 19. Kearney and Mc Comiskey bring added dimensions- as much as it pains me to say it , I don't think Mickey Walsh does any more. Ross is a loyal man though ( so much for the anti-Bridge bias) and apart from the return of Doyle/Ambrose/Rafferty, I don't see many changes for the qualifiers. And I hope the posters will travel wherever to support them, just as Cavan and Monaghan supporters do through thick and thin.

[Cloc Mor]

Dont see how you work out I was 'put in my place.'  I have nothing more to add and can't be bothered arguing.  The comment about them being shit was nothing personal but my appraisal of their performances yeaterday.

[cavanmaniac]

And I hope the posters will travel wherever to support them, just as Cavan supporters do through thick and thin.

That'd be thin and thinner there Caitlin...starvation diet and God knows when we'll be fed next

[thebandit]

Finlays final point was the widest point I have ever seen,

Until the ball began to curl back in and sail between the posts

I'm very surprised that you were fit to see that!!

[Uladh]

I don't see many changes for the qualifiers.

Qualifier