Dublin

[Lar Naparka]

Lar, as someone who lives in Dublin and has a good knowledge of the general sports scene on both sides of the river, I can tell you it is the GAA that's eating into rugby's participation base, not the other way around.
Nationally, where rugby is making inroads is in the provincial towns and more traditional 'rural' GAA areas, where they are coming from a very low base.
If you look at the traditional rugby powers in Dublin, they are tiny operations compared with the GAA superclubs like Kilmacud Crokes and Ballyboden.
And they're getting smaller by the year, which is why Blackrock were so desperate to enter into a ground-sharing deal with Cuala at Stradbrook.
The provincial scene has strangled club rugby in this country.

I accept what you are saying without any bother but it's not the numbers of underage players that worries HQ, it's the drop off rate. BTW, most of what I'm saying here  is on foot of a chat I had with Pat Daly and a few mutual acquaintances some years ago. (Has anyone else even heard of the report I have been referring to?)
In junior player numbers, rugby is nothing more than a minor distraction in the capital but the money spent on Leinster jerseys, scarves etc. is another matter entirely. So is the amount of people who turn up for interprovincials and Pro 12s and the likes.
It's percentages not actual numbers than worry HQ. I once played junior football with Bective down your way. If there was a derby with Dunderry, just about every living soul  would turn up too cheer, heckle, fight or sometimes all three. "Market penetration" was close to 100%.
The pubs in Robinstown ad Bective and the Balreask Arms were packed til closing time and well beyond.  The club was and is  the heart and soul of this small, rural community and the same could be said of hundreds of others throughout the land. My local club, Ciarans in Donnycarney, does a brisk pub business but find it hard to get managers for underage sides.  I live within 500 yards of the place and yet most of the people in my vicinity wouldn't be aware of or interested in any of the games played there. Ciarans to the vast majority means the bar and nothing else.

The worry of the Croke Park heads seems to be that, while the population is growing at an ever increasing rate, the numbers who actively identify with their local club or indeed the GAA in general are not growing at the same pace.

If it's the same report I seen that was compiled by the National Research committee, it concluded that the drop out rate from 13-18 was a phenomenon across all Irish sport and sport in general in Europe and the drop out rate was no higher in Dublin than elsewhere (pro-rata) - it was created by Daragh Sheridan (IIRC)

No it was commissioned at the time Peter Quinn was Uachtarán so that would date it c 1995.  Colm O'Rourke and Eugene Magee were members of the committee that produced it. The conclusions of the report were generally we-received, apart from the major one, that is. This was the recommendation that Dublin should be split in two, north and south.
The reaction to that was predictable  and in the Dubs v the rest controversy that followed, the entire list of recommendations was shelved.
IMO, that was a great pity as much of the reports contents made a lot of sense to me.
I'd stress that while the numbers who dropped out were of concern, the primary focus was on seeing what could be done to keep those who left involved in GAA activities. It seems an inordinately high number of those who left, for one reason or another, severed connections with the GAA.
Superclubs  were just starting to become an issue at the time and the pros and cons of huge clubs vs smaller more intimate ones was examined in detail.The conclusion was that the larger ones had, pro rata, a much higher drop out and switch off rate than their smaller, more intimate counterparts. In short, a superclub might have a couple of dozen teams of boys at u10 or u11, hurling and football but the number of teams decreases sharply as the age limit increases. If, say, three smaller clubs covered the same region, they would field more teams between them at minor level and upwards.

[ashman]

One can look at August bank holiday in 2009 when Kerry utterly tanked Dublin and the view at that time was that Dublin would win a hurling AI before a football .

[heffo]

One can look at August bank holiday in 2009 when Kerry utterly tanked Dublin and the view at that time was that Dublin would win a hurling AI before a football .

It's funny that a lot of the talk since Sunday is about how Dublin were far more mobile and their S&C was far superior.

In October 2009 after Kerry hammered us in August, Gilroy met the Dublin panel and told them we had to adopt the Kerry S&C model.

He thought they were lighter, stronger and faster and anyone who didn't comply was shipped out.

Away went bench pressing & dumbbells etc

I remember seeing the gym programme at the time and thinking it was mad.

[ashman]

Funny enough these programmes often  take 2 years to bear fruit .  Dublin gassed badly in the last 15 mins v Cork in 2010 semi .  It has not happened since and won't in future.

[seafoid]

https://apoemforireland.rte.ie/shortlist/dublin/

She is not an Irish town
And she is not English,
Historic with guns and vermin
And the cold renown
Of a fragment of Church latin,
Of an oratorical phrase.
But oh the days are soft,
Soft enough to forget
The lesson better learnt,
The bullet on the wet
Streets, the crooked deal,
The steel behind the laugh,
The Four Courts burnt.

Fort of the Dane,
Garrison of the Saxon,
Augustan capital
Of a Gaelic nation,
Appropriating all
The alien brought,
You give me time for thought
And by a juggler's trick
You poise the toppling hour –
O greyness run to flower,
Grey stone, grey water,
And brick upon grey brick.


Jaysus

[Fuzzman]

As I've said loads of times on here before, it always seems to be when Dublin get their first goal that it marks the end of the match. Kerry were staying with them quite well on Sunday up until the hour mark and then all of a sudden it was over. A man sent off and a simple goal given away.

Dublin have some very talented footballers but they have combined that now with ferocious work rate all over the team. So many players like McMahon, McCarthy, Johnny Cooper are able to run all day and defend like tigers but then break forward at speed. They are all able to kick scores and even goals if left unmarked. I'd like to see how often Dublin lose possession from their own kickouts these days. With such an accurate kick passer from their keeper and also with 3 good midfielders then in my eyes this Dublin team is pretty much the best SQUAD I've ever seen.
Then as most teams begin to tire a bit in the last 10 mins and this is where true champions often crush their closest rivals, Dublin have an amazing group of subs to come on.
Dublin's forwards used to be their weak point for years and was probably why they hadn't won Sam for so long but now they have a plethora of talented score getters.
Brogan really cleaned out Mark O'Shea on Sunday with some great fielding, turning and shooting. Rock is the new Darling Charlie where he top scores usually from frees. McManamon though is the guy that often scores the goals that kills off teams.

Only Kerry & Mayo in my eyes can really give them a game any more and even they tend to fall away in the last 10-15 mins of a game. Donegal were the last team to really catch them on the hop and I think Gavin and his squad learnt a huge lesson that day which they will not repeat I think. Dublin are no longer scared to put bodies behind the ball and play defensively if they have to close a game out.
Personally I can't see anyone getting near to them but of course we all know football doesn't always pan out like you expect it.

[Croí na hÉireann]

As I've said loads of times on here before, it always seems to be when Dublin get their first goal that it marks the end of the match. Kerry were staying with them quite well on Sunday up until the hour mark and then all of a sudden it was over. A man sent off and a simple goal given away.

Dublin have some very talented footballers but they have combined that now with ferocious work rate all over the team. So many players like McMahon, McCarthy, Johnny Cooper are able to run all day and defend like tigers but then break forward at speed. They are all able to kick scores and even goals if left unmarked. I'd like to see how often Dublin lose possession from their own kickouts these days. With such an accurate kick passer from their keeper and also with 3 good midfielders then in my eyes this Dublin team is pretty much the best SQUAD I've ever seen.
Then as most teams begin to tire a bit in the last 10 mins and this is where true champions often crush their closest rivals, Dublin have an amazing group of subs to come on.
Dublin's forwards used to be their weak point for years and was probably why they hadn't won Sam for so long but now they have a plethora of talented score getters.
Brogan really cleaned out Mark O'Shea on Sunday with some great fielding, turning and shooting. Rock is the new Darling Charlie where he top scores usually from frees. McManamon though is the guy that often scores the goals that kills off teams.

Only Kerry & Mayo in my eyes can really give them a game any more and even they tend to fall away in the last 10-15 mins of a game. Donegal were the last team to really catch them on the hop and I think Gavin and his squad learnt a huge lesson that day which they will not repeat I think. Dublin are no longer scared to put bodies behind the ball and play defensively if they have to close a game out.
Personally I can't see anyone getting near to them but of course we all know football doesn't always pan out like you expect it.

They were holding on by their fingernails really, the expected points graph shows that they should have been further behind.



They failed to retain possession from 2 kick outs out of 16 and scored 7 points out of those 14 successful kick out possessions.

[Fuzzman]

Impressive Cro.
How does the expected points tally be worked out?

[oakleafgael]

Impressive Cro.
How does the expected points tally be worked out?

From a statistical record of the results of the shots taken from that position.

[Fuzzman]

Tomás agrees with my point that Dublin learnt a lot from that Donegal defeat 2 years ago and won't let that happen again.

Tomás Ó Sé: We will never beat Dublin if this failing system isn't overhauled quickly

I drove home from Croke Park with a storm raging inside my head last night because these Dubs have me half depressed. Making hard judgements on old team-mates isn't something that comes easy to me but, for Kerry to not perform again against this team just struck me as inexcusable. And it leaves me asking uncomfortable questions.
I thought that Kerry had learned tactically from last year's All-Ireland final, but Dublin are just so forceful and relentless in what they're doing, Kerry actually don't have the legs to stay with them.

How we were just a point behind when Aidan O'Mahony was sent off is a tribute to how hard the team worked. But, let's cut to the chase here. Dublin are on a different level.

The dismissal was foolish on Aidan's part, but he's been sailing close to the wind too often in my view. I know he's a bit of a marked man, but what he did was ridiculous, basically ending the game
I thought Brendan Kealey was having a howler on his kick-outs long before he spooned one to Paul Flynn for Dublin's opening goal

Defensively, we tried to do our best, but my brother Marc wasn't at the races, Mahony wasn't at the races, Fionn Fitzgerald wasn't at the races.

We're playing Mahony as a sweeper and I don't think he's the man for that role. The system might work against 30 other counties, but it's against the Dubs you'll ultimately get measured.

And, against them, it's not fit for purpose.
Dublin just look so far ahead of everyone else, it's actually quite worrying now.

At the start yesterday, Marc and Peter Crowley were driving forward and I though we were going to have a real cut. But we stopped. 'Gooch' had been causing problems inside but we stopped putting ball in to him. Or, maybe more accurately, we weren't able.

The Dubs' back-line was outstanding, Jonny Cooper and Philly McMahon brilliant coming forward. James McCarthy is the best defender in the country today. He's gliding into position, but he has this bull strength that just stops an opponent in his tracks.

'They are now being spoken as 'invincible' and with some justification.' Photo: Sportsfile4
'They are now being spoken as 'invincible' and with some justification.' Photo: Sportsfile
I think Dublin learned a big lesson in the 2014 All-Ireland semi-final defeat to Donegal. They were playing this lovely, pure attacking football at the time and got caught with sucker punches.

That was the day, I suspect, they came up with the role that Cian O'Sullivan now plays to virtual perfection. It means they still carry that same attacking threat, but they also have a defensive blanket that is so difficult to penetrate.

And Jim Gavin has this team exactly where he wants them now.

I saw Philly McMahon having an argument with one of the selectors and he was taken off in a flash. Diarmuid Connolly not going well? Off too. The Dubs have so many options, they can send out these messages to their players.

They got an impact from nearly everybody who went in off the bench. Between them, Kevin McManamon, Cormac Costello and Eric Lowndes kicked 1-3. Kerry just didn't have that kind of impact in reserve.

So we were fighting an uphill battle on so many levels. Our bale-out card, the height of David Moran, Bryan Sheehan and Kieran Donaghy under high ball, just never came into play. Overall, our kick-out strategy was a disaster.

But we were physically bossed too. Once yesterday, I saw Paul Mannion up-ending Sheehan to turn over ball. The Dubs have a nasty streak in them that I can only respect. Every time Ciaran Kilkenny did something well, he'd smash into Fitzgerald on the way back out the field, driving him back a few yards, every time.

He's not a dirty player, but he was leaving the kind of calling card I said last week that Kerry needed to start leaving

It's not all doom and gloom for Kerry, we did have a positive National League. But I felt disgusted going home because we just didn't answer any of the important questions.

The trouble is, we'd get away with this again in Munster. Now I'm not saying that the likes of Marc and Mahony are finished, but we simply cannot handle Dublin one-on-one.

It was never a close match in my view. Dublin's pace seemed to have us in trouble all over the field. I wouldn't say the race for Sam Maguire is over, it's just Dublin have every card marked.

Brian Fenton was terrific in midfield, Denis Bastick worked his socks off. Then Michael Darragh Macauley comes in. Where else would you get that? We certainly can't match it.

I would say one thing, the summer is long. But my worry is that Dublin will improve and that's the scary thing

If there is a positive for Kerry, it's that at least it happened now. I don't doubt that men like Marc and Mahony will be on a mission now to get back to Croke Park and prove a point.

But this is the best Dubs team of all time.

That's not just Kerry's problem. It's everybody's.

[From the Bunker]

Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?

[Syferus]

Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?

Marc looked seriously off the pace on Sunday too. And Benny B is no spring chicken himself.

[muppet]

Tomás doing his Plámásing again. Dublin HAMMERED the hammer as he might say. He already talking like all Kerry teams do about the 'Hurt' when they lose. You'd swear Kerry men hurt more from defeat? And he get paid for that?

Plámás Ó'Sé probably had that article written before the match. 

Marc & Eamonn were probably comh-scríobhnóirí.

[Beffs]

Yep. Plámás Central.

Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?

[Syferus]

Yep. Plámás Central.

Is this Greatest Dublin Team Of All Time, the same one that got their arses handed to them by Donegal 18 months ago?

Donegal fairly handed it back a few weeks ago. Donegal aren't even AI contenders anymore.