Ulster IFC and JFC Club Championships 2015

[AZOffaly]

Whatever. I give up I just know it works for them, and their motive is not to win Junior and Inter club all Irelands. And I know that even if you linked it to League, or increased the number of teams in Senior (which would be daft in my view) you will still end up with good Intermediate and Junior teams. I'll say no more

[From the Bunker]

No doubt they are doing what suit themselves and I have no issue with that. But you have to admit there is an advantage in their seeding that makes them favourites to win titles outside the county.

Now for reality. The Intermediate/Junior AI and Provincial Club championships are window dressing. They mean nothing to anyone bar the counties involved. My Club won a Connacht Junior a few years ago and we dreamed of AI Glory and Croker. It was the only window of opportunity for us. We'd never get near a Senior standard.

There are loads of anomalies with all the counties involved. There is to much tidying up of rule and it would be hard to get these rules adhered to. And besides, Croke Park don't care.

[ardtole]

Id have to agree with From the bunker. It doesnt seem to be a level playing field when it reaches the provincial and all ireland stages. I cant see kerry changing their structures either, but personally I think the leagues should be linked to championship. It is ridiculous that a team can wim intermediate and not play senior the following year, though similarthings have happened in other counties.

[galwayman]

The junior and intermediate club championships are brilliant competitions when all is said and done.
I played in a Connacht junior club final for my club not so long ago which was a fantastic experience.
We dared to dream of Croker for a small while anyway.
As bunker has alluded to - our little club is unlikely to ever make Croker through the senior route.
It allows those of us in small clubs to aspire to make Croke Park

[AZOffaly]

OK, 1 more post just to address a couple of things.

From the Bunker, I don't accept they have too few senior teams. I feel other counties have too many. They are trying to protect and raise their standards all over. Junior clubs in Kerry are as good or better as Senior Clubs in Offaly. I can say that with assurance, and we only have 8 senior clubs. That is a direct result, in my view, of the 'rising tide' lifting all boats.

Ardtole, you kind of contradict yourself in that you say the championship should be linked to the league, but then say it's ridiculous that you can win Intermediate and not go Senior.

If you link championship grade to league position it would be perfectly acceptable for the intermediate champion to remain intermediate if they didn't finish high enough up the league. In Kerry they do not operate that way, and instead operate the system whereby your championship grade is determined by your previous championship performance. As such, in most years, the Intermediate Winner goes Senior, and the Junior Winner goes to Intermediate.

In 2016 this is not happening at Senior LEvel, and I have already said I disagree with this. This is because Kerry are trimming their County championship by removing some Senior Clubs. I believe they missed a trick in not allowing the Marys go Senior Club (as opposed to Senior Championship) as they would probably have stayed with South Kerry anyway for the Championship.

Templenoe, however, as Junior Champions *will* be Intermediate.

As I've said, in most counties I'm familiar with, this is the mechanism used to determine championship grade, and basing it on League position seems to be more of an Ulster approach. I can see the merits of it, but as I said, even if it was based on League, you'd still have strong Junior and Intermediate clubs, unless you made them have so many teams in their higher championship that you were sucking in Division 5 teams (and Duagh are Division 5 remember!).

So again, Kerry are simply ensuring their standards are as high across as many grades as possible, because this serves their county team best, and I don't think they are doing anything at all wrong. Maybe other counties should do the same.

[ardtole]

In Down the top 16 teams from last years league are graded as senior, the next 16 are graded as intermediate and the rest are junior. There is no novice grade. If the intermediate champions finish outside the top 16 clubs they will replace club number 16 in the sfc.

It is a straight forward and fair grade for clubs throughout the county and when clubs play in the ulster club there is no controversy over their status. Maybe we could learn from kerry and have less senior clubs and more junior clubs.

Prehaps if there was an official guide on what constitutes a clubs status across the country it would even things up, but i doubt that is likely.

[From the Bunker]

Id have to agree with From the bunker. It doesnt seem to be a level playing field when it reaches the provincial and all ireland stages. I cant see kerry changing their structures either, but personally I think the leagues should be linked to championship. It is ridiculous that a team can wim intermediate and not play senior the following year, though similarthings have happened in other counties.

I have no problem with not linking the League to Championship. A few years ago we had Shrule/Glencorrib who went from Junior to Senior without winning a County title. Their promotion to higher grades was based on League promotions. Felt sorry for them at the time, no big day or silverware!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

I post irregularly here, but thankfully AZ is calling it correctly anyway, so no need for me here really.

Really don't get what people have a problem with regarding Kerry system. Seems to me a lot of other places have seriously f*cked up systems. Teams going up 2 levels based just on league standings without winning a championship?? That's really going to battle harden players and teams alright. 

[galwayman]

I post irregularly here, but thankfully AZ is calling it correctly anyway, so no need for me here really.

Really don't get what people have a problem with regarding Kerry system. Seems to me a lot of other places have seriously f*cked up systems. Teams going up 2 levels based just on league standings without winning a championship?? That's really going to battle harden players and teams alright. 

Yeah it's not Kerrys fault that there are too many senior & intermediate clubs in other counties. It does give them an advantage in inter and junior club competitions over some counties but that's the fault of the other counties themselves.
If you have 20 senior teams there is going to be a big gap between the top few teams and the bottom 5 or 6 teams who are really not senior standard.
Ditto at intermediate level.

I think the divisional system which exposes players from smaller clubs to senior championship is one thing that pays off for Kerry certainly.
Just wondering though - how does a divisional team made up of club junior and senior players balance the need for these players to also prepare with their own clubs for their respective championships? That can't be easy on an intermediate or junior club if they have 8 or 9 lads off training with the divisional side?
How does their own club prepare properly at the same time?

[AZOffaly]

Normally the divisional side doesn't take huge chunks of their time. Certainly the 'home' club has access to the players, and they play league games etc with the normal clubs, as well as their championship games. They do train and play challenge matches with the Divisional side, but most of the time, they are also with their home club, and the Divisional season doesn't last as long.

Don't forget in large swathes of Kerry, hurling isn't a factor, certainly in South Kerry, so that issue doesn't arise. I would nearly say a dual club in Galway would have more issues with access to their players than a club with several Divisional players in Kerry.

[Walter Cronc]

Christ in Derry we could never start divisional sides. It would be a killing match - among the divisional team

[blanketattack]

Both of tomorrow's All Ireland club finals are live on Sky channel 191, coverage starts at 2:30pm

[twohands!!!]

Serious pace to the start of the game.

Templemore attack looks lethal for this level - 3 points up to no score.

[twohands!!!]

Ardnaree coming into it a bit doing better at midfield -Templnoe 0-6 Ardnaree 0-4

[twohands!!!]

Templenoe 1-8 Ardnaree 0-4 20 minutes