Alternative GAA Championship Structure

[davegaasportsdesk]

Hey guys, I had way too much time on my hands yesterday, so I came up with a wacky idea for a new GAA Championship & Shield competition.

Hope you like.

bit.ly/1JssvgU 

[Esmarelda]

The Longford v Dublin thread had pretty much turned into what this thread is about so good to start a proper separate discussion.

From reading what the president had to say yesterday, there seems to be a desire among players to retain the provincials, although it'll be interesting to see what the GPA report back on when they lobby their members.

Your proposal removes the provincials and also may lead to dead rubber games as groups are sorted out early. I also think the shield would generate little interest much like the Tommy Murphy of old.

I don't mean to be so negative, and it is beautifully presented but Rossfan's proposal is by far they best I've seen on this. I hope he doesn't mind me pasting it here:

FL every second weekend from 1st weekend in Feb for 5 rounds, last 2 rounds and Divisional Finals played on 3 successive weekends.( 2015 - 1/2, 15/2, 1/3, 15/3, 29/3, 12/4, 19/4 and Finals we 26/4. Club Leagues can at least progress in tandem with County games.

Keep the Provincial Championships but tighten the whole effin schedule up.

Then a new type of All Ireland championship -
8 Provincial Finalists go direct to Round 2. Prov Champs seeded and given a home draw

A new "Senior 3" Championship between the 5 lowest placed teams in League ( that don't make a Provincial Final). Winners go to Round 1 of AI Championship.
A new "Senior 2" between the 6 next lowest placed teams in NFL( that didn't make a Prov Final). Finalists of this competition go to Round 1 of the AI Championship.

A.I Championship Round 1 to consist of the 3 "weak" teams and the 13 other who didn't make the Prov Finals.
Round 2 between the Prov finalists and the 8 Round 2 winners with the 4 Prov Champions getting a home draw.
(Maybe the draws should be based on highest NFL team play the lowest etc to make sure there are no real dead rubbers in the NFL.??)
Quarter Finals to keep the Prov champions apart as now and Semis based on the old Provincial rota.
Extra time in all games and a proper logical scheduling (e.g AI Semis same weekend 1 Sat, 1 Sunday, Prov Championships run over 6 weekends) to enable Club championships to move in tandem with the Co fixtures.

NFL becomes more relevant
Keep the Tradition of the Prov Championships
Gives the weak and superweak Summer competitions thay can realistically aim to win.
Doesn't exclude them from the Sam race
Ensures that winning a Provincial will bring a bit of € from a home Championship game.
Doesn't lump Counties into a permanent tiered structure that they might never get out of.

[brianboru00]

No.
Doesn't address the issue of teams getting a beating. 
Does away with the provincial championships - i still don't see a reason for this..
Teams are actually only gtd 3 championship games - The "Shield", like the Tommy Murphy Cup wont be valued

[highorlow]

New York are history?

Looks good on paper but the logistics would be bad and unattractive for travelling supporters. Great thing about it is the back door is gone.

[Rossfan]

Not much good giving London Leitrim or Carlow the 3 games they'd be getting in those groups!
Shield would be totally meaningless
Dumping the Provincials is a non runner.
New York shouldn't be allowed in Senior Championship as they don't play in NFL.
Let them play in the Junior if they must.
Esmeralda I don't mind you highlighting my system at all - put cheque in post please

[AZOffaly]

If we are changing the provincials, then this is the format I like best, although I wouldn't bother having a Shield competition, as someone said it probably wouldn't be bothered with because it;s just a losers group.

It doesn't eliminate the trimmings, but the only way you can eliminate them, is to stop the poorest teams entering at all, and I don't agree with that.
It also gives the Division 4 teams a realistic chance of beating a Division 3 team (Tipperary v Waterford notwithstanding).

[Esmarelda]

Not much good giving London Leitrim or Carlow the 3 games they'd be getting in those groups!
Shield would be totally meaningless
Dumping the Provincials is a non runner.
New York shouldn't be allowed in Senior Championship as they don't play in NFL.
Let them play in the Junior if they must.
Esmeralda I don't mind you highlighting my system at all - put cheque in post please

In all seriousness, would you not consider bringing your proposal somewhere it might get listened to? It ticks all the boxes as far as I can see.

I never thought of New York but I guess they still get their annual game in Connaught (or however you lot spell it) so it doesn't make any material difference.

[westbound]

Something needs to be considered here first - WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE?

Is it the problem of good teams hammering weaker teams (e.g. Dublin V longford?)
Is it the problem of unfair routes to All Ireland Q-final for teams in different provinces? (e.g. Ulster preliminary round Vs Kerry/Cork in provincial semi)

There are other issues too which need to be considered, e.g. fixtures/clubs, young player burnout, TV/marketing, etc.

The 'problem' needs to be agreed upon first, before there can be any hope of agreeing a solution.

At the moment, I don't really see much general consensus about what the problem is, other than that there is a problem!

Also, I sometimes wonder, are we always looking for a problem in Ireland! Last month defensive football was the worst plague ever to hit GAA and if we didn't do something about it it'd be the end of GAA in Ireland. Has that been forgotten about this month now that we have a new issue to discuss?

Perhaps we are being over-reactionary?

That's not to suggest that we don't need change - but lets be sure of what and why we want to change.

[Milltown Row2]

for football it should be just the way it was. 4 winners play off in the semi final and clubs can have more games without the fecking stand off with managers taking over the club fixtures all the time.... soooo many players losing out on regular games every week because closed dates for training weekends/ championship matches and then the qualifiers and more training days.... teams might put a bit more effort into staying in the championship rather always looking at the qualifier as a means to get further on in the championship.... its ran its course

[AZOffaly]

Something needs to be considered here first - WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE?

Is it the problem of good teams hammering weaker teams (e.g. Dublin V longford?)
Is it the problem of unfair routes to All Ireland Q-final for teams in different provinces? (e.g. Ulster preliminary round Vs Kerry/Cork in provincial semi)

There are other issues too which need to be considered, e.g. fixtures/clubs, young player burnout, TV/marketing, etc.

The 'problem' needs to be agreed upon first, before there can be any hope of agreeing a solution.

At the moment, I don't really see much general consensus about what the problem is, other than that there is a problem!

Also, I sometimes wonder, are we always looking for a problem in Ireland! Last month defensive football was the worst plague ever to hit GAA and if we didn't do something about it it'd be the end of GAA in Ireland. Has that been forgotten about this month now that we have a new issue to discuss?

Perhaps we are being over-reactionary?

That's not to suggest that we don't need change - but lets be sure of what and why we want to change.

You're singing off my hymnsheet westbound

[BennyCake]

Tyrone v Cavan in Leitrim?!!

All teams should play equal number of H and A games. It's unfair otherwise. Just like the NFL.

Shield just like the Tommy Murphy cup. Nobody will play in it.

[rashCharacter]

All of this stuff with the champions league formats is well and good but the issue is going to be finding dates/times and venues for all these games.
Davegaasportsdesk, how about posting potential dates for your fixtures for 2016?

How does it affect the other non senior football county competitions (minor/u21/sigerson/hurling) as well as club activity in all the counties.

[highorlow]

Something needs to be considered here first - WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE?

Is it the problem of good teams hammering weaker teams (e.g. Dublin V longford?)
Is it the problem of unfair routes to All Ireland Q-final for teams in different provinces? (e.g. Ulster preliminary round Vs Kerry/Cork in provincial semi)

There are other issues too which need to be considered, e.g. fixtures/clubs, young player burnout, TV/marketing, etc.

The 'problem' needs to be agreed upon first, before there can be any hope of agreeing a solution.

At the moment, I don't really see much general consensus about what the problem is, other than that there is a problem!

Also, I sometimes wonder, are we always looking for a problem in Ireland! Last month defensive football was the worst plague ever to hit GAA and if we didn't do something about it it'd be the end of GAA in Ireland. Has that been forgotten about this month now that we have a new issue to discuss?

Perhaps we are being over-reactionary?

That's not to suggest that we don't need change - but lets be sure of what and why we want to change.

If you have a problem with the problem then take it to some no problem site.

[Jd94]

had the argument been made that the current league structure has initiated and will only continue to exacerbate a gap in standards. The current format sees the best make each other stronger and effectively the weaker make each other weaker. The eight best teams in the country playing each other regularly and been able to expose new players to that level of football. Weaker counties becoming accustomed to lower standards of opposition, younger players from weaker counties who are competitive at college level then subconsciously lowering their standards as they adjust to division 3/4 football?

The previous format 1A, 1B and 2A, 2B gave a better chance for teams to compete against a broader range of abilities? Saw bigger teams visiting Carlow, Waterford etc and generating more interest/crowds than maybe having Antrim, London and Wicklow as the only home games a division 4 side may play in a year (Eg Fermanagh v Dublin 2016 league or Carlow v Kildare). Sure the best 8 don't constantly play each other but there is surely an advantage to the game/GAA as a whole in the short, medium and long term?
Eg. A divisions = 4 teams from division 1 and four from division 2. B divisions = 4 from division 3 and 4 from division 4. Top two from each in quarter finals.
Further possibility - Top team in B promoted, 2nd in B plays off against 7th in A and 3rd in B plays off against 6th for promotion/ relegation - only a possibility. Myriad of options to give every team a further  playoff type game to finish of league with a meaningful game and ensure all fixtures up to last league game will be relevant. Possibly play all playoffs in Croker over one "Magic Weekend" type event which could be marketed.

Also to use the most recent example, can anybody say Longford were prepared to the best possible standard heading into last weekends game. Not alone tactically, but throughout the year were they given the same environment to develop and improve skills etc throughout the year?

What about the possibility of some draft type system, broad outline as follows(appreciate the amateur game does not allow this to work perfectly), the winning management/backroom team from all ireland semi finalists 2015 are required by GAA in 2016 to assist/work in some capacity even consultancy with the bottom 4 teams in country from 2014 to create the opportunities for these teams to improve? Problems re info sharing etc but that is a rough stab at idea.
Steps like this may even help to ensure weaker counties can get their best players to make themselves available.

Don't want to get into it at the minute either but there should be some controls in place by Croke Park to vet out the chancers and journeymen currently doing the rounds as county managers and members of back room teams?

Should the GAA also not ensure that media are required to use relatively unknown players from smaller counties in these shoots/conferences that we see the household names regularly in, help create an attractive image of a been a Division 4 footballer, especially for kids in these counties and the 13-18 year olds who may decide to just go off and play soccer/rugby? Also reminds parents that the product exists in these counties.

[Jinxy]

Hey guys, I had way too much time on my hands yesterday, so I came up with a wacky idea for a new GAA Championship & Shield competition.

Hope you like.

bit.ly/1JssvgU

I haven't read your idea, but my idea was better.