Down Club Hurling & Football

[whitegoodman]

Whilst Burren were decent last night I was very disappointed in Rostrevor.

Mooney kicked 2 great points but was largely out of the game and was well marked by Gerrard McCartan.  Thought Sean Parr was going to give Burren a lot of trouble but he was very quiet. The goal straight after half time seemed to eliminate any fight Rostrevor had left in them and for some reason with 20 mins to go and 9 points down Rostrevor were still playing with extra men back when they should have been trying to push forward.

Clonduff are likely to play the game differently tactically but if they did as they did on sat night it is unlikely to work imo.  Kilcoo's over reliance on Laverty meant that Clonduff could effectively double mark him and Kilcoo were struggling for scores there after.  Aside from Burren having more than one danger forward if Clonduff bring a forward back like they did against Kilcoo then Mckernan is likely to follow him into their defence and do some damage himself.

Burren will go in as heavy favourites but Clonduff have a few dangerous forwards themselves who will need to be looked at and a decent midfield with O'Hagen being particulary impressive the other night.

[here comes 6]

Dundrumite is right to point out that it has been a long time since a Down club won any Ulster title. It appears that no Down side has even made the final of the JFC since it began a decade ago. No Down side has got to the IFC final during the same period, although Leitrim won it in the late 90s. Our last Ulster SFC went to Burren way back in 1988, so we have underperformed pretty seriously. Given that, apart from 2010, our senior county squads have also regularly struggled to cope with championship football, there is a strong case for some sort of internal review of our performances.

Dont think comparsions can be made on the JFC or IFC in Ulster as all the other counties have a different basis on the strength of teams that are in these competitions.  Some people must just write on here because their bored?

[Mid Down Gael]

Very disapointed in loosing to Clonduff on Saturday, but i have to say on the night the better team won and congratulations to them. They played with more heart and passion, and got thier tactics spot on, something our management couldnt get right for the second year in a row at the simi final stage. 1-7 from our attack was a poor return, certainly not enough to win big games especially 0-2 in the second half. The time has come to have trust in our younger lads and play them from the start. We have been very potent up front all year, but asking half forwards to play so deep in a big pitch is asking too much of them. Burrens half forward line last night where always running at speed and supporting the inside line, something we couldnt master being so defensive.
Burren where superb from the off and killed of the challange of Rostrevor at an early stage being ruthless up front and playing with great speed and directness. In saying that Rostrevor where very poor. Burren are playing with great confidence and are peaking at the right time, two in a row looks very likely now. Gerard McCartan, Ciaran McGovern, Kevin McKernan, Donal OHare, Conal and Eamon McGovern where very impressive for them.

[dundrumite]

Dundrumite is right to point out that it has been a long time since a Down club won any Ulster title. It appears that no Down side has even made the final of the JFC since it began a decade ago. No Down side has got to the IFC final during the same period, although Leitrim won it in the late 90s. Our last Ulster SFC went to Burren way back in 1988, so we have underperformed pretty seriously. Given that, apart from 2010, our senior county squads have also regularly struggled to cope with championship football, there is a strong case for some sort of internal review of our performances.

Dont think comparsions can be made on the JFC or IFC in Ulster as all the other counties have a different basis on the strength of teams that are in these competitions.  Some people must just write on here because their bored?

Mourne Rover has got a very valid point. On a discussion forum on Down CLUB football and hurling he has pointed out about Down's failure at Ulster CLUB level to try and start a discussion up on a relevant topic to this particular thread. Perhaps comparisons can't be made regarding different counties in Ulster at Junior and Intermediate as the grading is a shambles, but at least he is on trying to start a discussion. It certainly doesn't look like it's Mourne Rover posting due to boredom in this particular topic.

[ardtole]

With the ulster club games likely to start within the next month and our abysmal record at all 3 levels surely it is one of the most relevant topics to be discussed on this board. I dont think the grades in other counties are much different than ours, every team in each county will be doing their uptmost to progress to a higher level.
Ballymartin only lost to Cookstown by a point and they went on to win the all ireland intermediate that year, yet when they played senior in Down the following year they made little impression. I think we have all our teams corrrectly graded, we have been unfortunate at times as well.
Anyway best of luck to all our teams who qualify for ulster this year.

[dundrumite]

With the ulster club games likely to start within the next month and our abysmal record at all 3 levels surely it is one of the most relevant topics to be discussed on this board. I dont think the grades in other counties are much different than ours, every team in each county will be doing their uptmost to progress to a higher level.
Ballymartin only lost to Cookstown by a point and they went on to win the all ireland intermediate that year, yet when they played senior in Down the following year they made little impression. I think we have all our teams corrrectly graded, we have been unfortunate at times as well.
Anyway best of luck to all our teams who qualify for ulster this year.

Ardtole we certainly do but other counties grade it differently. As far as I am aware culloville are playing division 1 Armagh and playing intermediate grade in Armagh, as one example

[DownFanatic]

With the ulster club games likely to start within the next month and our abysmal record at all 3 levels surely it is one of the most relevant topics to be discussed on this board. I dont think the grades in other counties are much different than ours, every team in each county will be doing their uptmost to progress to a higher level.
Ballymartin only lost to Cookstown by a point and they went on to win the all ireland intermediate that year, yet when they played senior in Down the following year they made little impression. I think we have all our teams corrrectly graded, we have been unfortunate at times as well.
Anyway best of luck to all our teams who qualify for ulster this year.

Ardtole we certainly do but other counties grade it differently. As far as I am aware culloville are playing division 1 Armagh and playing intermediate grade in Armagh, as one example

A few other examples: Tullysaran played in Division 2 in Armagh this year and they are in the JFC. O'Donnell's won the Antrim JFC last year and this year they are back in the JFC Final.

[ardtole]

Funny enough, I was talking to a player from killeavy only a few weeks ago and he told me they entered the intermediate championship this year because it is their 75 year (i think) anniversary. He told me they hadnt a hope of beating crossmaglen in the sfc and that they wanted a trophy for the dinner dance that year. I thought it was a bit strange at the time but I didnt pass much remarks. Looking back now though it is amazing they were allowed to do such a thing.

[fitzroyalty]

Funny enough, I was talking to a player from killeavy only a few weeks ago and he told me they entered the intermediate championship this year because it is their 75 year (i think) anniversary. He told me they hadnt a hope of beating crossmaglen in the sfc and that they wanted a trophy for the dinner dance that year. I thought it was a bit strange at the time but I didnt pass much remarks. Looking back now though it is amazing they were allowed to do such a thing.

Don't quote me on this, but I heard somewhere that in Armagh clubs can apply to play in whatever grade they wish (unless they win the competition, then they must go up to the next grade). So in theory, a club in Division IV can apply for SFC, and a club in Division I can apply for JFC. Obviously those extremes aren't permitted but you get the picture... clubs in Armagh can be forgiven for wanting to drop down to the IFC, especially Killeavy who were relegated last season. As for Culloville, this is their year, they've been beaten finalists/semi-finals in the IFC for the last 5/6 years or something!

Also:

Ballymartin only lost to Cookstown by a point and they went on to win the all ireland intermediate that year, yet when they played senior in Down the following year they made little impression. I think we have all our teams corrrectly graded, we have been unfortunate at times as well.

Cookstown could hardly buy a win in Tyrone Division I this year, so the grading is probably consistant with other counties.

[Don Johnson]

Ladbrokes have Burren as 6/1 third faves.

[Mourne Rover]

The gradings are certainly open to discussion, given that for example Lisnaskea have traditionally been a  strong first division side in Fermanagh but were placed at intermediate level last year and won both the Ulster and AI titles. However, the fact that Down clubs have not won an Ulster senior title for well over two decades, and have failed to even make a junior or intermediate final in the last ten years, would suggest that standards are not where they should be. There is also a theory that Down referees are stricter than their counterparts elsewhere, leaving our teams unprepared for the physical side of provincial competitions.

[umpire]

Were you at these games below??

Burren v Clonduff
Last championship meeting
2006 SFC Semi final

Burren 1.11 Clonduff 0.11

Burren team
Martin Rocks;
Ronan McGivern, Daniel McCartan, Brian Murphy;
James McGovern 0.3, Chris McGovern, Ronan McGovern;
Conor McCann, Declan Rooney;
PJ McAlinden, Kevin McKernan 0.2, Eamon McGovern 0.1;
Kevin McGivern, 1.1, Ciaran Byrne 0.3, Aidan McGivern 0.1.
Subs used
Garrett McFerran, Glen McMahon, R. Murdock and Ciaran McGovern

Clonduff team
Robert Wilson;
John McPolin, Daniel McPolin, Mark McPolin;
Paul McConville, Paul Shields, Paudie Matthews;
Paul McShane, Aidan Carr;
Plunkett McConville 0.2, Conor O'Hagan, Shane Ward;
Finbar McConville, John Fegan 0.7, Jason Brown;
Subs used
Eugene Brannigan, Shane O'Hagan and Peter Withnell.

Last Final meeting
1997
Burren 2.10 Clonduff 0.12
May not be the team that line out, I am going by 1997 final programme
Burren team

Gary Walsh (Capt);
Brendan McKernan, Joe Magee, Ronan McGovern;
Leo Magee, Kieran Doyle, Garrett McFerran;
Sean Ward, Gavin Murdock;
Paul McGovern, John Treanor, Rory Mussen;
Jimmy McAlinden, Tom Fegan, Aidan McGivern;

Clonduff team
Johnny McAleavey (Capt);
Paul McConville, Paul Shields, Martin McAvoy;
Eugene O'Hagan, Paul McShane, Tony Wilson;
John Morgan, Plunkett McConville;
Jayme Farrell, Ross Carr, Paudie Matthews;
Shane Ward, Daniel McPolin, Sean Curren;

Also got 1983 final programme
Burren 0.9 Clonduff 0.4

Teams in programme
Burren
Declan Murdock;
Pat Murtagh, Aidan Murdock, Malachy Murdock;
Kieran McConville, Paddy O'Rourke, Brendan McGovern;
Tommy McGovern, Charlie Doyle;
Gerald Murdock, John Treanor, Tony McArdle;
Vincent McGovern, Frank (Mitchell) McClorey, Gervase Poland;

Clonduff
Johnny McAleavey;
John J. Brown, Martin Farnon, Noel Fitzpatrick;
Brian McGreevey, Peter Hamill, Fr.Peter Devlin;
Aidan Brown, Paddy Brown;
Michael Crilly, Sean Fitzpatrick, Paul Brown;
John Crilly, John McPolin, Seamus Murnin;

[dundrumite]

Is Paul mc Conville only player from 1997 still lining out for either side?

[kinghen]

Is Paul mc Conville only player from 1997 still lining out for either side?

ronan McGovern would more than likely be lining out if fit

[forevergreen]

Mourne Rover has hit the nail on the head, whenever our teams go into Ulster, they are seldom ready for the physical demands of the games that come. They have been used to getting soft frees for minimal contact and slight jersey tugs etc that are not penalised in other Ulster counties. Since Burren's dominance in the eighties we have not been able to perform at the top end of the Ulster Championship. Those Burren teams were packed with strong players coupled with a number of skilful players in Shorty and co. Mayobridge reached an Ulster final when they had strong players like Francie, Shane McMahon and Glen McMahon to name a few, they pushed Ballinderry all the way but the following year went out early without those same players. Our teams need to go into Ulster knowing that it is going to hurt and frees are hard to come by.
The Ulster Championship is played @ the dirty end of the year October/November, ground is heavy and it's a slogging match, when hardwork and sheer bravery is worth more than a few light weight fancy boys that get easy frees. Its time our managers from all teams going into Ulster look @ the horses for courses scenario. The team that wins a Championship final mightned necessarily be what you need on a wet october day.