Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[his holiness nb]

The funny thing is all the anti GAA brigade on OWC constantly say we should keep politics out of sport, yet the Anti Maze brigade are doing quite the opposite, siding with the DUP in not wanting to share with the GAA when the sports bodies are all on board.

For shame.

[SammyG]

The funny thing is all the anti GAA brigade on OWC constantly say we should keep politics out of sport, yet the Anti Maze brigade are doing quite the opposite, siding with the DUP in not wanting to share with the GAA when the sports bodies are all on board.

For shame.

Can you show me one occaision were anyone on OWC has made a political comment? As far as siding with the DUP, what a load of bollix, the DUP along with everybody else have now read the business case and it doesn't add up. The fact that some of the DUP have finally realised the reality of the situation doesn't have anything to do with politics.

As far as the sports bodies being on-board, I presume you're having trouble reading again.

[his holiness nb]

Can you show me one occaision were anyone on OWC has made a political comment?

Brilliant!!! 

[SammyG]

Can you show me one occaision were anyone on OWC has made a political comment?

Brilliant!!! 

Excellent response, but some actual quotes would have been more useful.

[nifan]

The funny thing is all the anti GAA brigade on OWC constantly say we should keep politics out of sport, yet the Anti Maze brigade are doing quite the opposite, siding with the DUP in not wanting to share with the GAA when the sports bodies are all on board.

For shame.

Ive never said i didnt want to share with the gaa, and neither have most people I know - some have questioned the effect of a gaa pitch but i dont think thats insurmountable

[Main Street]

Can you show me one occaision were anyone on OWC has made a political comment?

Brilliant!!! 

Excellent response, but some actual quotes would have been more useful.

SammyG asking for quotes 

Don't we all remember the time before last christmas when Sammy went to the pub for a session .

After winding up the thread
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=5905.msg213038#msg213038

"the ONLY reason that the Maze is being proposed for the stadium is because of the H Blocks. If the H Blocks didn't exist nobody in there right mind would be proposing building a stadium in a field in the middle of nowhere."


'strange that they (Sinn Fein) were able to coax/co-erce the GAA into backing them in backing a memorial to their hunger strikers'


Then the classic
"I'll withdraw it (that remark) when somebody produces some evidence to contradict it" 

"I deliberately used the phrase coaxed/co-erced. I don't know which it was but it was certainly one or the other. There is no business or sporting reason for the GAA to support the Maze, so it must be for political reasons".

[his holiness nb]

Can you show me one occaision were anyone on OWC has made a political comment?

Brilliant!!! 

Excellent response, but some actual quotes would have been more useful.

Sammy I have told you a few times now I have no intentions of going onto that site. So will you stop asking me for quotes from it!!!!

A terribly sad attempt to get me back on your sad wee website 

[Evil Genius]

Selective quotations, MS, which don't tell the whole, up-to-date situation. For example, Hanson, who was the main driving force from the NIO behind the Maze project is no longer in NI, never mind influencing it anymore.

The Maze stadium was always and is now the only show in town.

ULSTER RUGBY
30 January 2006
IRFU backs Maze stadium proposal
NIO Sports Minister David Hanson has welcomed the decision of the Irish Rugby Football Union and the Ulster Branch to commit in principle to the multi-sports stadium at the Maze site close to Lisburn City.

22/06/2007
Ulster Rugby CEO Michael Reid today made the following statement regarding recent press coverage regarding the MAZE stadium proposals.
"In light of certain media articles in the last 24 hours I would like to reiterate the position of Ulster Rugby as stated at the NI Assembly DCAL meeting held on Thursday afternoon at Stormont.
I would like to clarify the following points:
Ulster Rugby remain committed in principal to a stadium at the Maze / Long Kesh site."
"At no time has a business proposal or governance solution been made available in relation to a Belfast Stadium nor have Belfast City Council ever met with a representative from Ulster
Rugby."

5/02/08
UR have "signed up" to what appears to be a minimum commitment of probably three matches per year at a proposed Maze Stadium. That's it exactly. The only actual option on the table at the moment is the Maze. There has been talk for a long, long time of Belfast City Council putting forward another option, but for now, the Maze is the only option there.
We are committed to the Maze, because it is the only thing that's there.

Re. rugby, Reid's is hardly a ringing endorsement of the Maze - "probably three matches a year" and then only because "the Maze is the only option there". In fact, it should be read in the light of UR's pressing (and continuing) need to keep HMG sweet whilst funding and planning pewrmission etc for the redevelopment of Ravenhill is completed. Indeed, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Ulster might fail to qualify for the Heineken Cup if things don't improve, in which case they will not be using the Maze at all, since HRC Group games are the only games possibly envisaged for the Maze by UR!

IFA
20/01/2006
NI football authorities have voted in principle to support a new multi-sports stadium on the former Maze prison site.
IFA Chief Executive Howard Wells said the decision was in the best interests of football in the province
Voting for the proposal, the soccer body said that they were prepared to "progress the matter with Government" on the basis that two other sports also found the stadium proposal attractive.

HW has always been the main (only?) cheerleader for the Maze from amongst the three codes. This is because he is actually employed by DCAL and it suits his personal agenda*. As such, he has long used the argument of "the only show in town" as his main justification for advocating the Maze.

Yet in his Programme Notes for the NI v Bulgaria friendly last month, his previously uncompromising stance showed significant slippage. Quoting from a BBC report derived by them from those Notes, he said:

"Without the ability to sell more tickets for international games the IFA five-year plan will come to nothing.

"A new stadium, or a much improved one, is vital to this," said Wells.

Later he stated:

"Without a new stadium or a much improved one, the future for football here is gloomy," he insisted.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/7232222.stm

And elsewhere (though not quoted by BBC), he referred to the need for a new stadium asap "wherever it may be".


* - Btw, Wells does not represent the general thinking within the IFA, never mind the vast bulk of NI supporters. And as the Irish News Editorial argued, support from all levels, both within and outwith all three sports, is liable to be critical to the Maze's chances of ever getting built.

[Main Street]

Selective quotations, MS, which don't tell the whole, up-to-date situation. For example, Hanson, who was the main driving force from the NIO behind the Maze project is no longer in NI, never mind influencing it anymore.

Stick to the point.
From the beginning we have been fed the non stop crap that the GAA has exercised some sort of veto over a Belfast location.
Both you and SammyG have ad nauseum repeated this line.
I have demonstarted that there was no Belfast option, both the IFA and UR have said that .
The so called selective quotes from Ulster Rugby state clearly that the Maze location was the only show in town

"At no time has a business proposal or governance solution been made available in relation to a Belfast Stadium nor have Belfast City Council ever met with a representative from Ulster
Rugby."
"The only actual option on the table at the moment is the Maze. There has been talk for a long, long time of Belfast City Council putting forward another option, but for now, the Maze is the only option there.
We are committed to the Maze, because it is the only thing that's there".

[Evil Genius]

The funny thing is all the anti GAA brigade on OWC constantly say we should keep politics out of sport, yet the Anti Maze brigade are doing quite the opposite, siding with the DUP in not wanting to share with the GAA when the sports bodies are all on board.

For shame.

As I have already stated clearly more than once on this Board, "Ussuns" on OWC are NOT all the same when it comes to the Maze (or any other issue, for that matter, as e.g the Ian Paisley Resignation thread proves).

There are a variety of reasons why the clear majority (though not unamimity) of OWC posters oppose the Maze. In my direct experience, and according to all the evidence, the overwhelming majority do so because they consider that defects in the location, design and cost will seriously harm the IFA and NI soccer in the long term, since it will hurt our attendances and therefore our finances.

Now it is also the case that some of those also have reservations about being lumped in with so controversial and emotive a site as the Maze i.e. it unncessarily introduces a political element into our sport, with which we are not happy. Speaking for myself, I greatly dislike this unwelcome imposition upon my sport as well (although if everything else about the scheme were OK, I daresay I could live with it).

However, I know of hardly anyone from amongst the NI support whose chief reason for opposing the Maze is this political aspect; moreover, I have not met or even heard of one NI fan who believes the Maze proposal is an otherwise good one, but still opposes it solely because of the political aspect. I repeat, not one.

Perhaps you could find one for me? Oh, I forgot - you like to make all sorts of wild allegations about what people are posting on OWC, but feel you are absolved from having to substantiate them, since you've sworn not to go back...

Can I suggest that you foreswear referring to the site, since you can't have it both ways, like some yappy wee bastard of a dog that starts a fight in the park by sneaking up on another dog from behind and biting it on the arse, then runs aways and hides whilst all the other big dogs in the vicinity square up to each other...  

[Evil Genius]

I have no intentions of going onto that site [OWC}. So will you stop asking me for quotes from it!!!!

A terribly sad attempt to get me back on your sad wee website 

You don't have to "support" the site even by posting on it, never mind by subscribing to it. All we're saying is that if you're going to refer to it, then at least have the integrity to back up your references by quoting from it. Otherwise, following your weak attempts at debate over there, you now merely expose your lack of credibility to the posters of this Board.

After all, if Donagh - who refuses to become a Patron on a point of principle - can browse the site in order to find ammunition for his posts, why can't you? Think of it as another means of ingratiating yourself further with him, without it appearing such an obvious effort at arselicking...

[Evil Genius]

Selective quotations, MS, which don't tell the whole, up-to-date situation. For example, Hanson, who was the main driving force from the NIO behind the Maze project is no longer in NI, never mind influencing it anymore.

Stick to the point.
From the beginning we have been fed the non stop crap that the GAA has exercised some sort of veto over a Belfast location.
Both you and SammyG have ad nauseum repeated this line.
I have demonstarted that there was no Belfast option, both the IFA and UR have said that .
The so called selective quotes from Ulster Rugby state clearly that the Maze location was the only show in town

"At no time has a business proposal or governance solution been made available in relation to a Belfast Stadium nor have Belfast City Council ever met with a representative from Ulster
Rugby."
"The only actual option on the table at the moment is the Maze. There has been talk for a long, long time of Belfast City Council putting forward another option, but for now, the Maze is the only option there.
We are committed to the Maze, because it is the only thing that's there".

Which point, MS?

With these particular posts I was making the case that neither the GAA nor UR is particularly enthusiastic about the Maze, with the IFA only appearing so from a combination of Hobson's Choice (they're skint) and Wells's personal Agenda.

And now even the IFA "commitment" to the Maze appears to be eroding somewhat, if Wells's most recent public pronouncement is anything to go by. And on this point, whilst I am not privvy to any behind the scenes manoueuvering which may be going on, I hardly think it merely coincidental that with the DUP getting cold feet over the Maze for political reasons and leaking that some sort of replacement for soccer might be built at the Blanchflower Stadium, Wells should now appear to concede ground from his previous "Maze or Nothing" stance. After all  the IFA already had an interest in the Blancjflower Stadium, inc. plans to centre their NI Youth Academy there, and near neighbours Glentoran - the second biggest club in the Province - have also expressed an interest in buying into the Stadium.

None of this has anything directly to do with the exercise (or otherwise) by the GAA of a veto over any multi-use stadium on a Belfast site, which you seem to be conflating with this particular topic.

[Rossfan]

EG would ya ever go out and have a few pints or a walk in the park - this non stop long long posting isnt healthy.
Anyway after 59 pages  - is Páirc na Cise Fada going ahead or not?

[take_yer_points]

Selective quotations, MS, which don't tell the whole, up-to-date situation. For example, Hanson, who was the main driving force from the NIO behind the Maze project is no longer in NI, never mind influencing it anymore.

Stick to the point.
From the beginning we have been fed the non stop crap that the GAA has exercised some sort of veto over a Belfast location.
Both you and SammyG have ad nauseum repeated this line.
I have demonstarted that there was no Belfast option, both the IFA and UR have said that .
The so called selective quotes from Ulster Rugby state clearly that the Maze location was the only show in town

"At no time has a business proposal or governance solution been made available in relation to a Belfast Stadium nor have Belfast City Council ever met with a representative from Ulster
Rugby."
"The only actual option on the table at the moment is the Maze. There has been talk for a long, long time of Belfast City Council putting forward another option, but for now, the Maze is the only option there.
We are committed to the Maze, because it is the only thing that's there".

Which point, MS?

With these particular posts I was making the case that neither the GAA nor UR is particularly enthusiastic about the Maze, with the IFA only appearing so from a combination of Hobson's Choice (they're skint) and Wells's personal Agenda.

And now even the IFA "commitment" to the Maze appears to be eroding somewhat, if Wells's most recent public pronouncement is anything to go by. And on this point, whilst I am not privvy to any behind the scenes manoueuvering which may be going on, I hardly think it merely coincidental that with the DUP getting cold feet over the Maze for political reasons and leaking that some sort of replacement for soccer might be built at the Blanchflower Stadium, Wells should now appear to concede ground from his previous "Maze or Nothing" stance. After all  the IFA already had an interest in the Blancjflower Stadium, inc. plans to centre their NI Youth Academy there, and near neighbours Glentoran - the second biggest club in the Province - have also expressed an interest in buying into the Stadium.

None of this has anything directly to do with the exercise (or otherwise) by the GAA of a veto over any multi-use stadium on a Belfast site, which you seem to be conflating with this particular topic.

Out of interest, who's the biggest club in the province?

[Evil Genius]

Anyway after 59 pages  - is Páirc na Cise Fada going ahead or not?

If by that you mean the proposed stadium at The Maze, I'd say it's looking less likely by the day.