AIQ Round 3B - Roscommon vs. Armagh (19/07/14, 5pm - Live on SKY)

[Chimley]

Roscommon were undone by bad turnovers. In contrast. Armagh rarely gave the ball away and got themselves a lot of scores by breaking quickly off the many balls coughed up by Roscommon. 

[armaghniac]

Watching the highlights, where was Ger Canning sitting "of course 90% of the support here is from Roscommon"? A lot of people seemed pleased at the end, Rossies are very generous.

[T Fearon]

Would Armagh winning possession be called "Apple Turnovers?"

[Rossfan]

Roscommon were undone by bad turnovers. In contrast. Armagh rarely gave the ball away and got themselves a lot of scores by breaking quickly off the many balls coughed up by Roscommon.

Superior physical strength and intense tackling by the Armaghs.
Looking at the Sunday game we had some awful poor defending at times.

[moysider]

Hmmmmm.....
We wouldn't bate Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry.
We'd bate all of D3 and 4 plus Cavan although Tipp and Clare might beg to differ this Summer.
That leaves Derry, Down, Galway, Laois, Kildare , Meath, Westmeath.
We need a more positive gameplan against all outside the top 8 though.

It didn't help that all our championship matches his year were wet affairs, be it wet pitches or rain during the game. I think our young lads would benefit from drier conditions because it would mean a swinging arm from a defender won't release the ball as easily. Their pace could have more of an impact on the game.

So much slipping and sliding yesterday. I won't miss the Hyde's pitch.

In those conditions the Hyde should have been to Roscommon s advantage. Home pitch and all but ye handled the conditions very poorly.

As chimley has already pointed out it was all those bad turnovers that done ye. I was critical of the Mayo turnovers v  Galway too. Likes of Donegal have reduced turnovers to a minimum and if one occurs there is a 'battle stations' effort to get back and limit damage. Mayo did too many turnovers but were superior enough to get away with it against Galway, but Ros were way too casual v Armagh. No urgency when errors were made - which was basically all the time. I m sure by now Sy. you have done a stats on the recording and have the numbers. Like the number of scores that came from Ros losing the ball and a score as a result. If you have it won t be pretty reading.
This should have been targeted by Ros as another step forward. It was a winnable tie. I couldn t believe how flaky Ros approach was. The performance v Mayo was very decent as regards tactics, effort etc. Why not develop on that?
Some Ros players are rated highly as a result of club and underage reputation. Senan Kilbride plays like a lad that wouldn t harm a fly. And I suspect he hates running in training too. Technically very good and would destroy you in March but always looks a bit one paced and casual in Summer. Whoever thought Cregg was best suited to playing ff should feck off for himself. Cregg had a great game v Mayo as a spoiler/watercarrier. That s what he can do well. He would be brilliant in the Donegal system.
I also think Joneen might be a bit of a poor man's yearrah. Reminds me a bit of Johnno when he s interviewed. If you come accross as a cute hoor giving nothing away, the public often assume that there s a brilliant tactician lurking inside Micko style keeping his cards close to his chest and giving off the ould guff. But I suspect in Joneen's case, like Johnno, what ye get on the surface is all there is.

[Farrandeelin]

Has Evans another year with Ros?

[Syferus]

Hmmmmm.....
We wouldn't bate Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry.
We'd bate all of D3 and 4 plus Cavan although Tipp and Clare might beg to differ this Summer.
That leaves Derry, Down, Galway, Laois, Kildare , Meath, Westmeath.
We need a more positive gameplan against all outside the top 8 though.

It didn't help that all our championship matches his year were wet affairs, be it wet pitches or rain during the game. I think our young lads would benefit from drier conditions because it would mean a swinging arm from a defender won't release the ball as easily. Their pace could have more of an impact on the game.

So much slipping and sliding yesterday. I won't miss the Hyde's pitch.

In those conditions the Hyde should have been to Roscommon s advantage. Home pitch and all but ye handled the conditions very poorly.

As chimley has already pointed out it was all those bad turnovers that done ye. I was critical of the Mayo turnovers v  Galway too. Likes of Donegal have reduced turnovers to a minimum and if one occurs there is a 'battle stations' effort to get back and limit damage. Mayo did too many turnovers but were superior enough to get away with it against Galway, but Ros were way too casual v Armagh. No urgency when errors were made - which was basically all the time. I m sure by now Sy. you have done a stats on the recording and have the numbers. Like the number of scores that came from Ros losing the ball and a score as a result. If you have it won t be pretty reading.
This should have been targeted by Ros as another step forward. It was a winnable tie. I couldn t believe how flaky Ros approach was. The performance v Mayo was very decent as regards tactics, effort etc. Why not develop on that?
Some Ros players are rated highly as a result of club and underage reputation. Senan Kilbride plays like a lad that wouldn t harm a fly. And I suspect he hates running in training too. Technically very good and would destroy you in March but always looks a bit one paced and casual in Summer. Whoever thought Cregg was best suited to playing ff should feck off for himself. Cregg had a great game v Mayo as a spoiler/watercarrier. That s what he can do well. He would be brilliant in the Donegal system.
I also think Joneen might be a bit of a poor man's yearrah. Reminds me a bit of Johnno when he s interviewed. If you come accross as a cute hoor giving nothing away, the public often assume that there s a brilliant tactician lurking inside Micko style keeping his cards close to his chest and giving off the ould guff. But I suspect in Joneen's case, like Johnno, what ye get on the surface is all there is.

Cregg has never played FF with 14 on his back. Ok, he did against Sligo in a glorified challenge match when promotion was won in the league but he's nearly always played a free role. I suppose I'm so used to seeing 14 behind the HBs at this stage I forget how strange it can look to someone that isn't watching it match in match out. You'll see him in his FB line as much as the FF line. He's always been at his best rooting out balls around the middle and breaking from deep.

Evans has done a world of good for the panel. Conditioning has drastically improved over the last 18 months and tactically he's got it right, mostly. We've played everything from 4-5 forwards at all times to one depending on the match. The idea we mindless play blanket defence is pretty far from the truth too. I suppose we've become quite adaptable the past two seasons but it's a case of being good at a few styles without excelling at any. Hopefully that will come with time.

We know what a bad manager looks like, and trust me, John Evans is a world apart from what we've been used to, Fergal aside, for the better part of two decades. I'd go as far as to say he might even be the best manager we've had in my lifetime, certainly since the early nineties only Fergal would compare and he was handed a steaming mess by the Tanned One. Not exalted competition by any means but it makes for a very refreshing change from the absolute ineptitude that we had become used to. Evans has got the team training hard and with nearly zero drama or nonsense, that's exactly what this panel needs right now.

I wondered about Evans at first but I was won over. He's much more than simply a blowhard.

Has Evans another year with Ros?

Two year contract is finished now. Full expect he'll be back for a third year.

[moysider]

Hmmmmm.....
We wouldn't bate Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry.
We'd bate all of D3 and 4 plus Cavan although Tipp and Clare might beg to differ this Summer.
That leaves Derry, Down, Galway, Laois, Kildare , Meath, Westmeath.
We need a more positive gameplan against all outside the top 8 though.

It didn't help that all our championship matches his year were wet affairs, be it wet pitches or rain during the game. I think our young lads would benefit from drier conditions because it would mean a swinging arm from a defender won't release the ball as easily. Their pace could have more of an impact on the game.

So much slipping and sliding yesterday. I won't miss the Hyde's pitch.

In those conditions the Hyde should have been to Roscommon s advantage. Home pitch and all but ye handled the conditions very poorly.

As chimley has already pointed out it was all those bad turnovers that done ye. I was critical of the Mayo turnovers v  Galway too. Likes of Donegal have reduced turnovers to a minimum and if one occurs there is a 'battle stations' effort to get back and limit damage. Mayo did too many turnovers but were superior enough to get away with it against Galway, but Ros were way too casual v Armagh. No urgency when errors were made - which was basically all the time. I m sure by now Sy. you have done a stats on the recording and have the numbers. Like the number of scores that came from Ros losing the ball and a score as a result. If you have it won t be pretty reading.
This should have been targeted by Ros as another step forward. It was a winnable tie. I couldn t believe how flaky Ros approach was. The performance v Mayo was very decent as regards tactics, effort etc. Why not develop on that?
Some Ros players are rated highly as a result of club and underage reputation. Senan Kilbride plays like a lad that wouldn t harm a fly. And I suspect he hates running in training too. Technically very good and would destroy you in March but always looks a bit one paced and casual in Summer. Whoever thought Cregg was best suited to playing ff should feck off for himself. Cregg had a great game v Mayo as a spoiler/watercarrier. That s what he can do well. He would be brilliant in the Donegal system.
I also think Joneen might be a bit of a poor man's yearrah. Reminds me a bit of Johnno when he s interviewed. If you come accross as a cute hoor giving nothing away, the public often assume that there s a brilliant tactician lurking inside Micko style keeping his cards close to his chest and giving off the ould guff. But I suspect in Joneen's case, like Johnno, what ye get on the surface is all there is.

Cregg has never played FF with 14 on his back. Ok, he did against Sligo in a glorified challenge match when promotion was won in the league but he's nearly always played a free role. I suppose I'm so used to seeing 14 behind the HBs at this stage I forget how strange it can look to someone that isn't watching it match in match out. You'll see him in his FB line as much as the FF line. He's always been at his best rooting out balls around the middle and breaking from deep.

Evans has done a world of good for the panel. Conditioning has drastically improved over the last 18 months and tactically he's got it right, mostly. We've played everything from 4-5 forwards at all times to one depending on the match. The idea we mindless play blanket defence is pretty far from the truth too. I suppose we've become quite adaptable the past two seasons but it's a case of being good at a few styles without excelling at any. Hopefully that will come with time.

We know what a bad manager looks like, and trust me, John Evans is a world apart from what we've been used to, Fergal aside, for the better part of two decades. I'd go as far as to say he might even be the best manager we've had in my lifetime, certainly since the early nineties only Fergal would compare and he was handed a steaming mess by the Tanned One. Not exalted competition by any means but it makes for a very refreshing change from the absolute ineptitude that we had become used to. Evans has got the team training hard and with nearly zero drama or nonsense, that's exactly what this panel needs right now.

I wondered about Evans at first but I was won over. He's much more than simply a blowhard.

Has Evans another year with Ros?

Two year contract is finished now. Full expect he'll be back for a third year.

Did not Cregg play inside v Armagh. I was watching the telly and it appeared that he was high up. I know what he did v Mayo and he did it well. Senan was out deep at times and gave away a ball early enough in the game that would have convinced the Armagh lads that these lads are here for the taking. That vibe was given off by Ros early and often.

Forget about the conditioning Sy. That s not Evans department anyway.

Why so defensive anyway Sy? I m not digging at Ros - I ve been more critical of my own down the years and I ve been right . And I ll be right again later this year unfortunately

The old saying that ' you re only as good as your last game' is hard to argue with. Roscommon should not have been turned over so easy Sy.

[Syferus]

Hmmmmm.....
We wouldn't bate Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Kerry.
We'd bate all of D3 and 4 plus Cavan although Tipp and Clare might beg to differ this Summer.
That leaves Derry, Down, Galway, Laois, Kildare , Meath, Westmeath.
We need a more positive gameplan against all outside the top 8 though.

It didn't help that all our championship matches his year were wet affairs, be it wet pitches or rain during the game. I think our young lads would benefit from drier conditions because it would mean a swinging arm from a defender won't release the ball as easily. Their pace could have more of an impact on the game.

So much slipping and sliding yesterday. I won't miss the Hyde's pitch.

In those conditions the Hyde should have been to Roscommon s advantage. Home pitch and all but ye handled the conditions very poorly.

As chimley has already pointed out it was all those bad turnovers that done ye. I was critical of the Mayo turnovers v  Galway too. Likes of Donegal have reduced turnovers to a minimum and if one occurs there is a 'battle stations' effort to get back and limit damage. Mayo did too many turnovers but were superior enough to get away with it against Galway, but Ros were way too casual v Armagh. No urgency when errors were made - which was basically all the time. I m sure by now Sy. you have done a stats on the recording and have the numbers. Like the number of scores that came from Ros losing the ball and a score as a result. If you have it won t be pretty reading.
This should have been targeted by Ros as another step forward. It was a winnable tie. I couldn t believe how flaky Ros approach was. The performance v Mayo was very decent as regards tactics, effort etc. Why not develop on that?
Some Ros players are rated highly as a result of club and underage reputation. Senan Kilbride plays like a lad that wouldn t harm a fly. And I suspect he hates running in training too. Technically very good and would destroy you in March but always looks a bit one paced and casual in Summer. Whoever thought Cregg was best suited to playing ff should feck off for himself. Cregg had a great game v Mayo as a spoiler/watercarrier. That s what he can do well. He would be brilliant in the Donegal system.
I also think Joneen might be a bit of a poor man's yearrah. Reminds me a bit of Johnno when he s interviewed. If you come accross as a cute hoor giving nothing away, the public often assume that there s a brilliant tactician lurking inside Micko style keeping his cards close to his chest and giving off the ould guff. But I suspect in Joneen's case, like Johnno, what ye get on the surface is all there is.

Cregg has never played FF with 14 on his back. Ok, he did against Sligo in a glorified challenge match when promotion was won in the league but he's nearly always played a free role. I suppose I'm so used to seeing 14 behind the HBs at this stage I forget how strange it can look to someone that isn't watching it match in match out. You'll see him in his FB line as much as the FF line. He's always been at his best rooting out balls around the middle and breaking from deep.

Evans has done a world of good for the panel. Conditioning has drastically improved over the last 18 months and tactically he's got it right, mostly. We've played everything from 4-5 forwards at all times to one depending on the match. The idea we mindless play blanket defence is pretty far from the truth too. I suppose we've become quite adaptable the past two seasons but it's a case of being good at a few styles without excelling at any. Hopefully that will come with time.

We know what a bad manager looks like, and trust me, John Evans is a world apart from what we've been used to, Fergal aside, for the better part of two decades. I'd go as far as to say he might even be the best manager we've had in my lifetime, certainly since the early nineties only Fergal would compare and he was handed a steaming mess by the Tanned One. Not exalted competition by any means but it makes for a very refreshing change from the absolute ineptitude that we had become used to. Evans has got the team training hard and with nearly zero drama or nonsense, that's exactly what this panel needs right now.

I wondered about Evans at first but I was won over. He's much more than simply a blowhard.

Has Evans another year with Ros?

Two year contract is finished now. Full expect he'll be back for a third year.

Did not Cregg play inside v Armagh. I was watching the telly and it appeared that he was high up. I know what he did v Mayo and he did it well. Senan was out deep at times and gave away a ball early enough in the game that would have convinced the Armagh lads that these lads are here for the taking. That vibe was given off by Ros early and often.

Forget about the conditioning Sy. That s not Evans department anyway.

Why so defensive anyway Sy? I m not digging at Ros - I ve been more critical of my own down the years and I ve been right . And I ll be right again later this year unfortunately

The old saying that ' you re only as good as your last game' is hard to argue with. Roscommon should not have been turned over so easy Sy.

Cregg was rarely up in the FF line on Saturday. I can't remember a single time where he was sitting in a traditional FF position when a ball came in, he was usually the linkman coming around the middle. Most of the time it was Diarmuid (15) and Senan (13) that were there. Senan has become a sort of work donkey the past few games so at times Murtagh was the only one inside. Certainly Cregg was the deepest of the three.

To be honest I listened back to Dara O'Se and the match on Sky and it was comically critical at times. We made a slow start but we rallied in the second half and but for some woeful shooting we'd have been level  before 45 minutes had elapsed. More than tactics or any of the high-level tactical mumbo-tumbo O'Se was coming out with it was handling errors that were killing us.

Dara was complaining about us not kicking the ball to take the top off Armagh's defence but in reality we did so and accurately on numerous occasions only for the ball to come flying off the man who had beat the defender to the ball. It wasn't even Armagh's physicality most of the time. The same thing was happening in the middle, we'd lord the air and Shine or Higgins would make a lovely controlled break to a Roscommon player and the ball would squirt away from them like a cow's placenta. Hand-passes that slipped from our hands as we tried to pass the ball was also a big feature. All that did was give Armagh time to set their defence whereas controlling the ball first time would have opened up plenty of extra opportunities.

O'Se came out with the maddest shite of all near the end "Roscommon need a goal and they don't look like getting one", this after a spell where Higgins hit a vicious drop-kick that would have been in the back of the net if it was hit anywhere but at the keeper and Stack got a fist to a lob into the box from Collins. It felt like O'Se and company were writing a script about how awesome Armagh were and how shite Roscommon were and a snag as unimportant as reality wasn't going to derail them from that story.

At the back we had a few truly terrible plays - Mallon's point in the first half, the goal - and we clearly were second best but I thought we put ourselves into a decent position mid-way into the second half despite such a poor first half. We didn't finish the job but whatever. That doesn't matter now. The key is to learn the lessons because Armagh are about the level of team we can expect in D2 in the spring and we can't be making the same mistakes if we're to stay up.

[Rossfan]

A lot of good points there Syfín ( must lie down for a while  ) and Moy.
Were some of our lads more worried about getting rattles and watching where it might come from rather than keeping eyes on the ball?
The goal we gave away was comic opera defending at its worst as 2 defenders seemed to stand somewhere looking up in the sky at the ball while the Armagh forward was moving to where the ball landed. Then having a small goalie doesn't help. Can you imagine Cake or Claffey being beaten to a high lob like that?
Looking back with that great friend hindsight - should we not have gone more positive after 15/20 minutes when it was obvious the 1 man forward thingy and space marking defenders wasn't working?
When we had more of a cut at it in the second half we lost 1-8 to 1-9 and had some costly silly wides at times. It was certainly better to watch than the 1st half and a more suitable way to play.
Hopefully lessons will be absorbed , more young lads to join the panel, lads not up to it thanked for their efforts and let go back to normal life, survive in D2 while getting used to playing teams at that level and take it from there.
Thanks to the management and players for our first decent year since 2010( which was a stolen flash in the pan) snd for leaving us in the best place we've been since 2003.

[Chimley]

I have to agree about O'Sé on this occasion. He was contrasting the  way Roscommon and Armagh attacked and wondering why Ros would not kick the ball in quicker. It is easy to be incisive and open up a defence on turnover ball before they have a chance to reset. That was the difference on Saturday. Ros were winning midfield but were coming up against a defence that were all set. This led to players going laterally and into blind alleys before inevitably losing it  and allowing Armagh to break en masse with Ros defenders turned facing their own goals trying to get back into position.

[Collie Brolly]

Rubbish from Ros.We'll cod ourselves into thinking we're making progress,young lads comin through,good mix of youth and experience blah blah blah.Pure nonsense.We're goin nowhere fast.

[Rudi]

Fine Armagh side. Can execute a game plan to perfection. Physically imposing and fast on the counter attack. Conversion rate of score chances to actual scores is high. Don't tend to make mistakes. Carragher , Clarke and Tony K are fine footballers. They will be a handful for any side apart from Dublin. Wish them well.

Ros playing in the first half with 1 19 year old inside the 65 on his own was negative, we still gave away 6 points from play to zero. Our conversion rate was poor like the Mayo game. However a game against a very good Armagh side will bring us on in the long run. The pressure Armagh put on our forwards was a credit to the Armagh defence.

[Shrewdness]

What do my fellow Rossies think of reports in today's local print media that John Evans is understood to have told the players last Saturday evening, that he might not be in a position to continue for personal reasons?.Are these rumours unfounded or is there a risk he'll leave?. Imo, it would be a big setback to the development of the Roscommon Senior team if he departs now. Hopefully he'll stay on.

[Syferus]

What do my fellow Rossies think of reports in today's local print media that John Evans is understood to have told the players last Saturday evening, that he might not be in a position to continue for personal reasons?.Are these rumours unfounded or is there a risk he'll leave?. Imo, it would be a big setback to the development of the Roscommon Senior team if he departs now. Hopefully he'll stay on.

Johneen is a retired Garda so I imagine it could only be his or his wife's health that would stop him returning?

Hopefully nothing serious is happening in his life.