Monaghan v Tyrone - Sunday 15th June - St Tiernach's Park Clones

[Bingo]

Monaghan will have to play as dirty as they possibly can to give Tyrone a real reason to lie down rather than dive and look to get their opponent sent off/black carded.

(Is this how we play this game?)

[GrandMasterFlash]

What's with all the kicking around the field rrhf? Could you please explain how you think Tryone won All Irelands in '03, '05 & '08? Tyrone are one of the most physical teams of the last 15 years (and in a good way I might add as most of them had the skill to go with it).
Please also explain the difference between 'kicking around the field' and rugby tackling an inside forward to the ground, what's the difference and which is favourable in your opinion?

I'll let rrhf explain how Monaghan for the last 20 years if not more kick teams around the field but do you really need us to explain the difference between doing that and how Sean Cav rugby tackled a man to save a certain goal. Can you really not see the difference?
Most people would say the Tyrone team in the 2000s worked very hard at tackling back and the odd time they bent/broke the rules like Ricey and Gormley but there would be very few UNBIASED NEUTRALS would say Tyrone were a dirty team back then. As you admit yourself we had too many quality talented players all over the pitch to need to be dirty or over physical. I think most people would have said Armagh and Monaghan are the two most physical teams in Ulster over the last 20 years.
You then admit that yourself by your line
Yes they play hard and on the edge but Monaghan have a much wider skill set now than they've had for a long time, if ever (no disrespect to the teams that went before..)

It's a lazy analysis and a misunderstanding to think that Monaghan are all about brawn/dirt/physicality, whatever you want to call it. On average, our team is probably one of the smaller teams in terms of player size. Yes they play hard and on the edge but Monaghan have a much wider skill set now than they've had for a long time, if ever (no disrespect to the teams that went before..)

Tyrone know how to mix it in the physicality stakes, probably a lot better than Monaghan to be honest, so, as I said on this thread before, it's a little bit rich for Tyrone men to be criticising Monaghan for 'kicking teams around the field'.

So you say Monaghan play hard and on the edge to defend your team but then say
Tyrone know how to mix it in the physicality stakes, probably a lot better than Monaghan. Is this a compliment to Tyrone or are you saying it's a bad thing?

You seem to be contradicting yourself a lot in that post GMF but to me the gist of what your saying is that this new Monaghan team are much smaller and more skillful than the teams that went before them who used to depend on kicking the sh*te out of teams in the hope of winning.


Would you say that most times Tyrone play Monaghan that it is Monaghan's interest to cut out the dirt and play open football? Do you think they now have the players to do that or will we see more of what we saw last year in Croker. It would be interesting to see.
This Tyrone team is very different to what ye played last summer.

Do you think we'll see Sean Cavanagh and probably Colm targeted again for some special "Dick" treatment. Will there be an element of revenge about this game for some of the players and fans after how we cheated you out of winning SAM last year?

Taking off my smart arse hat I think ye actually are a better team under your new manager and if I'm being totally honest I think ye could actually beat us or at least give us a hell of a game this time. However I think it could down to your discipline or lack of that could lose ye the game. If Morgan can stay on the field he will punish any fouls within 50-60 yards and he will frustrate the hell out of your fans and then players with his slow lazy kicking style. in Omagh the Down fans were on his back right from the start.

The other factor of course is has Mickey got our defence finally sorted. Will he stop playing players who are too attack minded and don't seem to follow their man when they pass and go?
I think having Justy in at FB will be a huge help and bringing on Conor in the 2nd half always tightens things up. Hopefully your'e not out of sight by then.

Will yis be wearing Blue this time or try to sneak the white jersey stunt again.
Will Tommy Freeman be back itching to get on and waving to the crowd Brolly style. It will be interesting to see what Joe has to say about this match. I loved the way Michael Lyster challenges him now every time when talking about Sean Cavanagh. Love it Mick

Firstly I was an UNBIASED NEUTRAL back then also. I attended 2 out of the 3 AI finals ('03 and '05) as most of my friends are from Tyrone. I would say that I didn't miss one of the Tyrone/Armagh titanic clashes in the 2000s and watched Tyrone in Croker throughout those fantastic years, and thoroughly enjoyed it..

I am not denying that Monaghan have been an 'over physical' team in the past and unfortunately have the ability to play like this. I must state though that this is not what your average Monaghan fan wants to see as we know they can play football when the put their minds to it. Banty had them fired up such that they would have went through a wall for him; this got them so far but not where they or any fan wanted them to be.. MOR is a different story and has them playing with the belief that they can win. Obviously winning an Ulster title has heightened this belief, as you would expect. 

We are a different team now to the Monaghan teams of old. We have a wider range of skills, a greater depth in our panel, a bit of belief and an astute manager, which are all bonuses..

I just feel that it's a lazy and unfair analysis of Monaghan to say that they're dirty, they have no other offerings, and their main objective is 'kick the sh*te' out of teams or 'kick teams around the field' in 'the hope of winning'.

Regarding the jersey colour, I couldn't give a sh*te if they wore clown suits as long as they win.. 

[Sleater]

I think Malachy O'Rourke will have a surprise or two in his team line up for this game. Not many would have predicted that Pauric Donaghy would have started last years ulster final and that Paudie McKenna would have started the Div 2 League final (after not playing a single minute during the regular league fixtures).

[Main Street]

We are less likely to be provoked into overly physical reactions these days by dastardly opponents, than in Banty's day.

But we just keep our powder dry, we haven't decommissioned.

[Fuzzman]

That's a much better post GMF and much more open and honest and I'm not saying that sarcastically.
I haven't saw enough of ye to comment well enough but I agree Malachy is an astute manager and I think ye have progressed a lot from years gone by.

You've good players all over the team now and not just dependant on McManus. However, he will be a huge loss if he can't play as he would worry our defenders who are already brittle in confidence.
My main admiration for ye was that ye beat Donegal last year whereas we failed the previous 3 times.

Do you think ye will play the same way ye did v Donegal last year or are ye playing a lot more open. If it is an open game it could be the best game of the Ulster championship as I fear Cavan and Donegal will continue with their squeeze the life out of teams


I'm happy that you feel Monaghan have turned a corner and I think a bit like ourselves, playing in Ulster brings out the worst in you as it's dog eat dog. You can understand why Tyrone fans hate playing ye as it is always a dirty enough match with one team as bad as the other often.
As I said for the Down game, we have a tough road through the front door where we need to beat
Down, Monaghan(away), Cavan/Armagh and then probably Donegal AGAIN.
Compare it to Cork, Kerry or Dublin's path to the AI 1/4 finals and it just shows how unbalanced it is

As Darragh o'Se said in his Irish Times article Ulster football is amazing this time of the year and it gives the rest of us great entertainment when we're waiting for August.

[Schkite]

No harm Fuzzman but I'd question how much you've actually seen or know about this Monaghan team, given that you've referenced a few times that Tyrone players will be in for special treatment from Dick, when the reality is that Dick most likely won't feature until the last 15-20 minutes. As long as Lennon stays fit that is, fingers crossed.

So I'd take your opinion on Monaghan being dirty with a pinch of salt. As the other fellas have said it's a different Monaghan team now than it was under Banty, yet it's still that period that defines Monaghan by the looks of it. We're playing a better style of football, more players are comfortable taking scores and from distance too, a far cry from when we sometimes used to almost exclusively rely on Tommy and Finlay from play and frees. And again the lack of discipline comment puzzles me, I wouldn't be too worried about that at all. Yes it was only the league, but we didn't get a black card until the final. The defence has been very solid recently, not as much needless fouling as there used to be and more clean turnovers. It's no secret that Morgan's frees are one of Tyrone's main weapons so I'm sure O'Rourke will have that drilled into the Monaghan defence.

[EC Unique]

This time last year Monaghan  kicked Donegal around the field in Clones in the Ulster final in a cynical game largely ignored because of the novelty team winning.  Can they do it again?

Obviously we had seen how not to play Donegal 

Of course it's a tough task to out-cynic Tyrone, we would lose that type of game as Tyrone are the masters there.  Probably we will be putting all our eggs into our football ability, tactics and the like.

Please do...

[Fuzzman]

Your right I haven't seen them this year at all Schkite and I'm glad to hear they've cleaned up their act.
I will be delighted if they play positive open football as that suits our forwards big time. They would much prefer going man to man or at least not having a Donegal style of defence around them.

All I was saying was that I think Tyrone and Monaghan seem to take the worst out of each other.
Look at the Penrose v Mone battle last year. Penrose very rarely gets himself into that sort of a confrontation but he totally lost the run of himself last year and I was shocked Mickey didn't take him off at half time before he got the line before the start of the second half.

On a totally different note. Did anyone come up with the final answer on whether the ref can move a sideline kick up the field if someone else is fouled when the ball is dead?

[Schkite]

I think Malachy O'Rourke will have a surprise or two in his team line up for this game. Not many would have predicted that Pauric Donaghy would have started last years ulster final and that Paudie McKenna would have started the Div 2 League final (after not playing a single minute during the regular league fixtures).

On this note, I seen elsewhere that Conor McCarthy and Ryan McAnespie have been at training recently, anyone able to confirm or deny?

[Main Street]

Your right I haven't seen them this year at all Schkite and I'm glad to hear they've cleaned up their act.
I will be delighted if they play positive open football as that suits our forwards big time. They would much prefer going man to man or at least not having a Donegal style of defence around them.

All I was saying was that I think Tyrone and Monaghan seem to take the worst out of each other.
Look at the Penrose v Mone battle last year. Penrose very rarely gets himself into that sort of a confrontation but he totally lost the run of himself last year and I was shocked Mickey didn't take him off at half time before he got the line before the start of the second half.

On a totally different note. Did anyone come up with the final answer on whether the ref can move a sideline kick up the field if someone else is fouled when the ball is dead?

Nothing Mickey could have done would have prevented Tyrone being reduced to 14.
Mickey is much smarter than you give him credit for.
Why do you Tyronies always think you know better than Mickey?

[Fuzzman]

Of course there was nothing he could have done as the Ref wouldn't have accepted the substitution request but my point was that Penrose had totally lost the run of himself in the first half and was playing brutal stuff and Mickey could have had him off before half time arrived.
Everyone around me was saying they should take him off before he gets himself sent off and then he was.

Yes we all know better than Mickey. Mickey Mouse that is. We are still entitled to our opinions though.

How can you see the game going Main Street? Will it be an open and high scoring or will ye revert to playing sweepers? Do you think the two games we've had already will benefit us or will ye be fresher?

Any word on Joey McMahon and McNamee. Those two would certainly benefit the team I think.

Should we drop big Sean for this one? Save him for the Cavan game. 
We don't want Joe having another seizure on live TV.

[Main Street]

How can you see the game going Main Street? Will it be an open and high scoring or will ye revert to playing sweepers? Do you think the two games we've had already will benefit us or will ye be fresher?

Any word on Joey McMahon and McNamee. Those two would certainly benefit the team I think.

Should we drop big Sean for this one? We don't want Joe having another seizure on live TV.

The force of Joe will be with us, but we won't need him, we're in good shape.
I don't know about freshness v 2 games under the belt. There's no science to say which of the benefits matters more, the benefit can swing stronger for either side on the day as they have done in the past, just depends.
Tyrone have "issues" lingering since last year but maybe have them sorted  or still have enough to control this game after going a few points clear midway in the 2nd half. We have yet to beat Tyrone, that's a slight (elephant in the room) disadvantage right there.
I'm visualising Monaghan 2 points ahead with the ball, a minute of aded time to play and the crowd doing "ole's".

[ONeill]

I'm visualising Monaghan 2 points ahead with the ball, a minute of aded (sic) time to play and the crowd doing "ole's".

They even misuse the apostrophe when they're chanting. Dirty fcukers.

[Bingo]

Talking to one of the Monaghan lads today, they are hoping to introduce balls to training by end of the week. Basically its been wrestling and the dark arts to now. They have only burnt a dozen tyrone jerseys to date though and are looking more if anyone has any.

[babarino]

Talking to one of the Monaghan lads today, they are hoping to introduce balls to training by end of the week. Basically its been wrestling and the dark arts to now. They have only burnt a dozen tyrone jerseys to date though and are looking more if anyone has any.

I heard they're coming up with homophobic, "g'wan ye thieven'/dog fighten' bastards" type taunts. Needs must, to stop the exponents of all that is good in Ulster Gaelic football from strutting their stuff.