Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[Tyrone Gaa]

I actually don't know where I sit regarding the Harte situation.  At the start of the year I said he had to show progress and went onto clarify that progress would be winning against a Dublin, Kerry or Mayo something we hadn't done for years.  After the public humiliation that was Sunday My head is saying he has to go but my heart is saying another year he might be able to change it up.

I would love to know the thoughts of the players regarding the management.  Obviously Mickey rules the roost, players don't speak with RTE and that's respected until 10 minutes after they retire or leave the setup, so do they really respect the manager or is it a case of if you don't you will be dropped.

Its the unanswered questions.  If Mickey has the 100% backing of the players that will support his management even when he is outside the room then I'd be up for an extension.  I'm also wondering who do you replace him with?  Fergal Logan?? I don't think so.  Paul Devlin has shown that he isn't the man. 

[omagh_gael]

Would it be worthwhile picking someone like Donnelly or McClure and try to develop them as inside men? Spend the whole winter and spring developing an alternative to the current approach.

I still find it crazy how rigid our tactics can be. If you look at soccer there can be occasions when the total tactical approach changes depending on the situation within a game. A 4-4-2 can change to a 3-5-2 to adapt to the challenges faced dynamically. We've got our defensive system sussed and it will stiffle weaker opposition, we need something more dynamic to give the top teams more to think about. I see no reason why these can't be used even within games depending on circumstances.

[blewuporstuffed]

MDonnelly is far too slow,  don't know where you would play him

Mattie Donnelly certainly isn't slow.
He can slow the play down at times, but he has plenty of pace.
I think he has to line out at MF. 
This year at corner forward, or that free role or whatever he was doing just wasnt as effective

[Mikhailov]

Now that the dust has started to settle and the reality is setting in, a few points regarding Sunday and the situation we find ourselves in as a county going forward;

1. We are better than Sunday and I don't think Dublin are as good as we made them look albeit they were very impressive on the day
2. If Mayo learn from our mistakes then they will give Dublin all they want and may be victorious on the day but they will have to be at their best
3. Our system as has been alluded to several times is only functional when you are in front
4. We were too 'nice' on Sunday
5. We had one of the best teams of all time (03-08) with some legendary players but they all had a nasty, competitive and win at all costs attitude - we didn't have that on Sunday past.
6. Our 'big' players failed to turn up in Croke Park again when it mattered ala Kerry '14, Mayo '16. They weren't let play
7. Taking off Mark Bradley was insulting to the player - the sacrificial lamb who played against 3 players all game and was isolated and we take him off early like an underage club coach....take the wee corn8er forward off first FFS !!!
8. We obviously have no plan B.....or we do have the belief that we will NOT need a plan B....
9. All year we met opposition teams on the '45 with our defensive wall - this did not happen on Sunday - we met them at the D if at all. It seemed that we decided that if we keep out the goals then we win - O'Callaghan put an end to that ploy after a few minutes.
10. Morgan didn't take any '45's, all year he bolted up the pitch to take them...
11. we had no support runners all game,  our player on the ball was isolated (Dublin made sure this happened with their blocking of runners, pulling and hauling) - did we not expect this to happen. This is a standard tactic for Dublin !!
12. Sean Cavanagh, McCarron and possibly Justy will quit, other players may decide to pull the pin as the gap is too large and they are not prepared to sit on the bench all year and be used only for in house 15v15 games....

13. We are NOT in the top 3. the last 3 seasons have proved this...
14. The super 8's actually will benefit us as we are guaranteed 3 games if we get that far - we need to start winning big games again.
15. Ulster titles mean nothing ....unless you back it up with a big win in Croker
16. Who would want the Tyrone job - you have to win an AI to be deemed a success - this wont happen short term

17. Lets look forward to some club football - put us out of our misery....our 3 club championships are wide open.

[longballin]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-virtually-a-criminal-offence-to-criticise-him-in-tyrone-joe-brolly-on-mickey-hartes-future-36083493.html
This is so true....

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

I agree with much of this. I've been saying for ages that this system we play is pointless. It has never beaten anybody we couldn't beat anyway playing a more expansive style. We'd have won as much by committing more to attack, it would have been more entertaining to play in and to watch and it might have given us a puncher's chance in games like Sunday.

I was shocked to hear Mickey say he wouldn't be making any major changes as the system has served us well. It hasn't. It always fails against top opposition and being able to beat or at least compete with top opposition is the only reason you would play like this. We have wasted the last few years building a more limited version of Donegal circa 2012-2014 - a style of football that is arguably already old hat even if you do it as well Donegal did. It's ironic that Mickey often says football has moved on and people complaining about his tactics haven't moved with the times. Watching Tyrone chase shadows from the very early stages of Sunday it was clear that it was Mickey who was at the wheel of the Ford Anglia for these past few years.

Mickey has got a lot of praise the last few weeks and those who dared question his tactics were written off. But Sunday was the big test and Tyrone failed it very badly. Had they even made some kind of contest of it then you could make a good argument that he had earned another year. But there is no sign that lessons have been learned. We have wasted the last couple of years on a flawed system. Squandered the last couple of seasons of Sean Cavanagh in a county jersey. Everyone is saying his legs were gone on Sunday but it was hardly the correct role for a 34 year old. He should have spent the last two years close to goal with the likes of Harte, Sludden and Donnelly up the field to help out. All the talk last week was that we were the best prepared side to leave Ulster. In reality, given all the talent, time, money and effort put into a team that had no idea what to do after the 5th minute suggests we were, relatively speaking, the most poorly prepared team ever to leave Ulster.

Mickey is a legend and there would be no guarantee that Tyrone would appoint a better manager. But I do think he has had plenty of chances now and isn't making the best use of the talent at his disposal. Time for a change.

[omagh_gael]

Mikhailov, point 10 is interesting as I watched Morgan being called up for a long range free but he didn't go. I'm nearly sure it was the one off the ground Petey Harte scored in first half.

[driveherin]

Harte has to go....everyone lauds him for 3 all Irelands!! He actually should have won more with the group of players he had!!! Sorry...

[Club boi]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

I agree with much of this. I've been saying for ages that this system we play is pointless. It has never beaten anybody we couldn't beat anyway playing a more expansive style. We'd have won as much by committing more to attack, it would have been more entertaining to play in and to watch and it might have given us a puncher's chance in games like Sunday.

I was shocked to hear Mickey say he wouldn't be making any major changes as the system has served us well. It hasn't. It always fails against top opposition and being able to beat or at least compete with top opposition is the only reason you would play like this. We have wasted the last few years building a more limited version of Donegal circa 2012-2014 - a style of football that is arguably already old hat even if you do it as well Donegal did. It's ironic that Mickey often says football has moved on and people complaining about his tactics haven't moved with the times. Watching Tyrone chase shadows from the very early stages of Sunday it was clear that it was Mickey who was at the wheel of the Ford Anglia for these past few years.

Mickey has got a lot of praise the last few weeks and those who dared question his tactics were written off. But Sunday was the big test and Tyrone failed it very badly. Had they even made some kind of contest of it then you could make a good argument that he had earned another year. But there is no sign that lessons have been learned. We have wasted the last couple of years on a flawed system. Squandered the last couple of seasons of Sean Cavanagh in a county jersey. Everyone is saying his legs were gone on Sunday but it was hardly the correct role for a 34 year old. He should have spent the last two years close to goal with the likes of Harte, Sludden and Donnelly up the field to help out. All the talk last week was that we were the best prepared side to leave Ulster. In reality, given all the talent, time, money and effort put into a team that had no idea what to do after the 5th minute suggests we were, relatively speaking, the most poorly prepared team ever to leave Ulster.

Mickey is a legend and there would be no guarantee that Tyrone would appoint a better manager. But I do think he has had plenty of chances now and isn't making the best use of the talent at his disposal. Time for a change.

100%

What Harte done in the past was remarkable, he will forever be a legend in Tyrone for bringing home 3 All Irelands but its now 9 years since and we havent even come close to winning it again. I cant remember a year since 08 when we can say "Tyrone were unlucky there, that team could've won the AI"

Fact is No other "Big" County would tolerate it

[LeoMc]

If a new Manager is appointed he has to be given time, 3-5 years to develop. My fear is that after 1 or 2 poor results or 1 early exit there would be a clamour for his head.

[Tyrone Gaa]

Clubs in the county don't give their managers breathing space because their paying that under performing manager, fail and your gone!! Will the clubs advise their county board delegates to back or sack Mickey that's what it comes down to only difference its not their money its other funds from the county purse that would go to Mickey.

Only man in the club football living on past glories is Damien Cassidy and if Clonoe exit this year I wouldn't expect a renewal.

[redhandefender]

some hysterics and nonsense written on this board. I really wonder how many have actually played football. Sunday was disappointing for everyone but the only reason you would get rid of harte would be to have a new voice in the changing room.

I do not see any of the options put forward changing our style dramatically and certainly not to go all out man for man versus a team like the Dubs, they don't even do that. Its like you are buying in to the joe brolly bulls**t train!

We won ulster and made an AI semi. Ok we got annihilated but they will learn a lot. Harte isn't going to walk away and the county won't sack him can you imagine the outcry nation wide.

Harte is doing the best he can with this bunch, probably is time for change but certainly not as a result of telling mickey to f**k off.

That south tyrone/Fermanagh clown has been silent for the last 2 months then the knives are out.

Sunday was a prof side playing an amateur side. The GAA as a whole should be worried

[WT4E]

some hysterics and nonsense written on this board. I really wonder how many have actually played football. Sunday was disappointing for everyone but the only reason you would get rid of harte would be to have a new voice in the changing room.

I do not see any of the options put forward changing our style dramatically and certainly not to go all out man for man versus a team like the Dubs, they don't even do that. Its like you are buying in to the joe brolly bulls**t train!

We won ulster and made an AI semi. Ok we got annihilated but they will learn a lot. Harte isn't going to walk away and the county won't sack him can you imagine the outcry nation wide.

Harte is doing the best he can with this bunch, probably is time for change but certainly not as a result of telling mickey to f**k off.

That south tyrone/Fermanagh clown has been silent for the last 2 months then the knives are out.

Sunday was a prof side playing an amateur side. The GAA as a whole should be worried

Theres been plenty examples in the past where legendary managers got heaved before they or others expected. Micko, Paudi there are more than that too.

I'm not saying getting rid of Mickey is the right or wrong thing to do but the way you put it you make it sound an impossibility which is nonsense also.

Something is going wrong between the age of 18-21 in Tyrone if you compare with Dublin in the last 10 years - Tyrone have a similar or possibly even better minor record than Dublin but when you compare this to the last 7-8 years of U21's its night and day between the two counties with Tyrone producing very little and Dublin's record is still at minor level or even better. Is the defensive football being bred at U21 level?

[omagh_gael]

I'm not calling for Mickey to go, in fact I think it would be a mistake. However, there can be no doubt that our tactical approach needs to change. It clearly won't do when it comes to the business end of the championship and it is piss poor to watch. The worrying thing is Mickey appears to be sticking to his guns according to media interviews after the game. I'm hoping that things are reviewed over the winter and a more attacking based approach is implemented. I'm not talking 6 forwards up front at all times but the one man in the entire half approach at the minute is a busted flush.

I

[Up The Middle]

some hysterics and nonsense written on this board. I really wonder how many have actually played football. Sunday was disappointing for everyone but the only reason you would get rid of harte would be to have a new voice in the changing room.

I do not see any of the options put forward changing our style dramatically and certainly not to go all out man for man versus a team like the Dubs, they don't even do that. Its like you are buying in to the joe brolly bulls**t train!

We won ulster and made an AI semi. Ok we got annihilated but they will learn a lot. Harte isn't going to walk away and the county won't sack him can you imagine the outcry nation wide.

Harte is doing the best he can with this bunch, probably is time for change but certainly not as a result of telling mickey to f**k off.

That south tyrone/Fermanagh clown has been silent for the last 2 months then the knives are out.

Sunday was a prof side playing an amateur side. The GAA as a whole should be worried

The mans been there for 15 years. Surely at this stage its time to give someone else a crack at it. According to you whoever else comes in is going to fail straight away. Theres no way of knowing what will happen with a new manager but what we do know for certain is that if Harte stays then the style of defensive football remains and there is no future in it. Maybe another couple of Ulster titles but at what expense, ruining another promising batch of players with defensive crap.