justice my arse..!!!

[ziggy90]

Who are shrugging their shoulders?

The maltreatment of the Irish is completely different to that handed out to "young muslims". I've yet to see random attacks on Mosques, faith schools, restaurants and the like. Birmingham is a very multi cultural city and for the most part people of all the various nationalities and faiths get along together, as can be witnessed in most working, social and sporting environments. A lot of muslims (young and old) choose to opt out of this society and prefer their own way of life (nothing wrong with that until they think they're above the laws that everyone else lives by).

I'd doubt if there is a more racially tolerent city in this country than Birmingham.     

[maddog]

Well put MD, the government of the day and all succeeding ones have managed to have this tragic event pushed under the carpet. I think it is only now that the relatives of those who died and/or who were injured are starting to agitate for some answers to some very explosive questions.

The treatment meted out to a very frightened Irish community was indeed to use your term "vile", with the undoubted stars of the show being our friendly neighbourhood constabulary. The city was ready to explode that time and it was only the calm and reasonable words of Roy Jenkins then MP for Birmingham Stechford that stopped their being wholesale revenge attacks against Churches, Schools, Pubs and Clubs etc (even though there were incidents of this kind).

there must be something in the water around birmingham as all of the above treatment is now being dished out to young muslims and then they shrug their shoulders and wonder why they are being radicalised

What treatment of young muslims do you mean ? Arguably the black community would have more to complain about with regard to policing. I would say any radicalisation is more to do with US and UK foreign policy and the perceived slights against Islam that goes with the war for oil and defence contracts abroad coupled with low education and social depravation in the inner city areas. And i say perceived because if Iraq was christian and oil rich it would probably have gone the same way. There is a perception perhaps of the authorities giving muslim communities (which are highly ghettoised here) an easy ride due to fear of the race card being pulled. That wasnt really a consideration in the 70s.

[lawnseed]

the cops are harrassing the young muslims non stop. muslim taxi drivers are pulled over.. constantly maybe twice a day. in my experience birmingham is the only city in the uk where i got hassel because of where i'm from. irish hauliers trucks dread the place as they are singled out for special treatment.. not a great place

[maddog]

the cops are harrassing the young muslims non stop. muslim taxi drivers are pulled over.. constantly maybe twice a day. in my experience birmingham is the only city in the uk where i got hassel because of where i'm from. irish hauliers trucks dread the place as they are singled out for special treatment.. not a great place

I dont see the harrassment of young Muslims at all, surely there would be much more of an outcry if this was going on. What sort of hassle did you get and in what area ?

[ziggy90]

I wonder has he a long snout and drives a Monaghan registered truck?

Seriously, I know plenty of Irish hauliers and I've yet to hear ONE complain about "special treatment". Who gives you hassle because of where you come from? The cops? the locals?

I travel in taxis (private hire) quite a lot and in over 35 years I've yet to see a cop pull one of them. If you mean checking ALL taxis'/cabs to see if they are legal and are carrying the proper insurance I fail to see the problem (there is a big problem with opportunist drivers picking up fares in busy spots such as Broad Street, Brindley place etc). As for "young Moslems"  getting non stop harrassment that is just not true.

When was the last time you were in Birmingham.........the seventies?

[Maguire01]

Or quite possibly never.

[ziggy90]

Or quite possibly probably never.

Fixed that for you.

[cadence]

i live in sandwell, moved up to the west midlands in 2010 from london. london is more diverse, and from my own experiences, more tolerant. in fact, otherness is the norm if you choose you're friends wisely. you're whole circle of friends could be made up of outsiders and no one would bat an eyelid. whereas in the west midlands there's a fairly limited mix comparatively and attitudes can be suspect here too, even from the supposedly liberal middle classes... they'll think nothing of having a go at an irish accent and lace it with stereotypical irishisms. racism from some right wing, reactionary type i expect, but it comes as a surprise from a grauniad reader. now if you have the wherewithal to protect yourself against racist stereotypes, viewing it from the contexts it thrives in and also targets, then you can be more philosopical and have protection against the negative affects. but if you're vulnerable for example, and there tend to more vulnerable groups from poorer immigrants, racism cuts deep and is no joke because it aims to oppress and is successful too.

anyway, to say birmingham, or anywhere else is a haven for otherness is incorrect. that's not what those who write on racism, discrimination and oppression say, and it hasn't been my experience, nor anyone i know either.

[cadence]

http://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/61/27/20/PDF/The_Irish_in_Britain-Injustices_of_Recognition_.pdf

[maddog]

i live in sandwell,

Black country folk can be a little insular.

Seriously though, no one is saying its perfect or anything close to it, i have had the usual slurs and insinuations over the years in the work place and outside of it. What do you do ? There is an inherent level of racism and stereotyping in every country and here it is ingrained. For example some people consider "taking the Mick" as a racial slur, yet it is so ingrained if you raised it in the work place they would look at you like you had two heads and you would be labelled a troublemaker. There is plenty of stereotyping towards the English or British on this board. You say London was more tolerant, but i would guess that would be very much dependent on where you were in London. Look at the level of racially motivated crime in London compared with the West Midlands.

[maddog]

I wonder has he a long snout and drives a Monaghan registered truck?

Seriously, I know plenty of Irish hauliers and I've yet to hear ONE complain about "special treatment". Who gives you hassle because of where you come from? The cops? the locals?

I travel in taxis (private hire) quite a lot and in over 35 years I've yet to see a cop pull one of them pay for one. If you mean checking ALL taxis'/cabs to see if they are legal and are carrying the proper insurance I fail to see the problem (there is a big problem with opportunist drivers picking up fares in busy spots such as Broad Street, Brindley place etc). As for "young Moslems"  getting non stop harrassment that is just not true.

When was the last time you were in Birmingham.........the seventies?

Fixed that for you.

[Hardy]

Black country folk can be a little insular.

I suppose it's understandable. There aren't that many of them living in the country.

[cadence]

i live in sandwell,

Black country folk can be a little insular.

Seriously though, no one is saying its perfect or anything close to it, i have had the usual slurs and insinuations over the years in the work place and outside of it. What do you do ? There is an inherent level of racism and stereotyping in every country and here it is ingrained. For example some people consider "taking the Mick" as a racial slur, yet it is so ingrained if you raised it in the work place they would look at you like you had two heads and you would be labelled a troublemaker. There is plenty of stereotyping towards the English or British on this board. You say London was more tolerant, but i would guess that would be very much dependent on where you were in London. Look at the level of racially motivated crime in London compared with the West Midlands.

i'm not saying anywhere is perfect, far from it. my point about london is that because it's so diverse, especially in the more deprived inner boroughs, that otherness has become very normal. when you have that level of diversity, the culture changes and it becomes easier to find otherness, others who might be perceived to be outsiders by the mainstream uk cultural majority. it's easier to make a life for yourself that can be made up by others like yourself, who are not from the cultural majority nor who have silly attitudes. birmingham does have tension issues between asians and the black population. from speaking to people form both groups, these issues seem stem quite a lot from internalising stereotypes about each other through racial and cultural superiority ideas taken from white uk cultural majority. a type of manifest destiny played out between oppressed groups. of course, taking on mainstream cultural beliefs is one of the ways discrimination develops, but london being the world city that it subverts mainstream culture hugley.

stats on racially motivated crimes can be misleading because the numbers that are recorded can depend upon whether police from a particular constabulary are under pressure politically to sort their shit out or not, or people from a particualr area do not trust the police to take the matter seriously such much goes unreported and a lot of racially motivated crime goes unmissed as police it is not recorded as such when it should be.

in all fairness, i'd prefer birmingham/black country/west midlands to somewhere with a small townie mentality, but it's not a patch on london as far as just being cooler, to the point where most people actually don't give a shit. compared to london it's unusual to see mixed couples in birmingham/black country/wm, and the make-up of couples are fairly limited too.

[lawnseed]

3million of taxpayers pension funds go missing during a huge selloff as well as the 750 thousand commission for doing the deal. not to worry the money was returned and the culprits are no longer with the company.. its fraud pure fraud. the guards have been informed.. will any arresteds be made.. warrants issued? wait and see

[LeoMc]

3million of taxpayers pension funds go missing during a huge selloff as well as the 750 thousand commission for doing the deal. not to worry the money was returned and the culprits are no longer with the company.. its fraud pure fraud. the guards have been informed.. will any arresteds be made.. warrants issued? wait and see

??