EURO 2012

[Bingo]

this looks like the last hurrah for players like given, duff & keane who have been great servanst to ireland over the years.
I would like to see ireland now bring through what even good young players we have and try and work with them towards Euro 2016, even if that does mean missing out on the next world cup.
players like mcclean, coleman,mccarthy, ciaran clarke etc that are regularly playing for thier clubs in the PL and should be able to improve the type of football we currently play

There is potential alright with the likes of Coleman, McClean, Clarke and McCarthy. You'd like to see them stay in Premiership clubs and perhaps some of them move up a level like McCarthy. Then the only other name that stands out is Robbie Brady at United, will he stay with them this year? Be nice to see if he could move on loan even to another premiership club.

You've a few others that are at clubs but limited to loan spells in lower regions - Shane Duffy, Greg Cunningham, Conor Clifford. These need to be pushing through at their clubs or more likely to move to other Premiership club or decent championship club.

There are a few in squad that should be coming into their prime at 25 - Gibson, Cox, Long, Leon Best, McGeady but they need to play regularly and a few of them won't at current clubs - Best and Cox but you can hardly see them staying in premiership, playing regularly. Walters is only 26, McGeady 24.

There is a bones of a squad there but it isn't brimming with top quality, more like steady eddies and potential young guns.

Traps next after the Euros will tell a tale and see what his ambitions are.

[GalwayBayBoy]

this looks like the last hurrah for players like given, duff & keane who have been great servanst to ireland over the years.
I would like to see ireland now bring through what even good young players we have and try and work with them towards Euro 2016, even if that does mean missing out on the next world cup.
players like mcclean, coleman,mccarthy, ciaran clarke etc that are regularly playing for thier clubs in the PL and should be able to improve the type of football we currently play

There is potential alright with the likes of Coleman, McClean, Clarke and McCarthy. You'd like to see them stay in Premiership clubs and perhaps some of them move up a level like McCarthy. Then the only other name that stands out is Robbie Brady at United, will he stay with them this year? Be nice to see if he could move on loan even to another premiership club.

You've a few others that are at clubs but limited to loan spells in lower regions - Shane Duffy, Greg Cunningham, Conor Clifford. These need to be pushing through at their clubs or more likely to move to other Premiership club or decent championship club.

There are a few in squad that should be coming into their prime at 25 - Gibson, Cox, Long, Leon Best, McGeady but they need to play regularly and a few of them won't at current clubs - Best and Cox but you can hardly see them staying in premiership, playing regularly. Walters is only 26, McGeady 24.

There is a bones of a squad there but it isn't brimming with top quality, more like steady eddies and potential young guns.

Traps next after the Euros will tell a tale and see what his ambitions are.

Anthony Pilkington at Norwich who scored 8 Premier League goals last season. Has played for the U-21's but hasn't received a senior cap yet.

[Bingo]

Anthony Pilkington at Norwich who scored 8 Premier League goals last season. Has played for the U-21's but hasn't received a senior cap yet.

Indeed, think he only 23/24 as well. No world better but will offer something.

[thewobbler]

Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey and Slovakia have bigger populations than the 26 counties and are watching the tournament at home .

Belgium have been shite for at least a decade. Austria hasn't had a decent team for longer than that. 
Talented teams come around every so often for smaller countries. It's the same in the GAA for counties like Longford and Armagh.   
Croatia will be back in the doldrums at some stage. England won't win anything .

we're getting stuck on qualifying for tournaments being a greater goal than being able to play decent football. Achieve this and you'll reap the reward in the long-term, and qualify for tournaments

Slovakia is more or less the same size as Ireland, has a struggling low-income post-communist economy but can sustain a professional league get teams in the Champions League every other year, and outplayed and outthought Italy at the last World Cup.     

Belgium are on the way back up after a long period in the doldrums (and taking time out to restructure and rebuild), have shit hot youth teams and should comfortably qualify for the next World Cup.

Austria and Switzerland are mediocre I 'll grant you, although the Swiss beat Germany 3-0 a few weeks ago, something Ireland would never ever be able to do the way things are.

It's the level of the above countries plus the Scandinavians that Ireland should be aspiring to reach, Turkey's a different league altogether.

Puskas seeing as you haven't given one example of a country rebuilding their football ethos that has actually gained success, I declare your theory a pile of sh1te.

[Denn Forever]

Lightening stops play!!

Some amount of rain.

[AQMP]

I'd say this game is off.  If so it will be replayed in full tomorrow.

[puskas]

Puskas seeing as you haven't given one example of a country rebuilding their football ethos that has actually gained success, I declare your theory a pile of sh1te.

Thanks for the considered response wobbler!

not sure i had a theory unless you mean my suggestion that Ireland over a bit of time should be able to lift the quality of the football they play. u disagree? not sure what you mean by rebuilding an ethos.

Pre-Jack Charlton Ireland were playing less agriculturally. You could argue what Ireland have been playing since then is alien to the original ethos, so it would be returning to not rebuilding the ethos.

if it's examples of teams improving, how many do you want? On international level, Belgium are coming back, Hungary have invested a lot in academies and will probably show up at the next Euros if not the World Cup. Cyprus are no longer a minnow. Turkey, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland were all minnows and whipping boys when I was a kid in the 80s, they're all now medium to upper-medium sides looking to qualify. The point is that all these sides, not even Norway, do not resort to the type of shite, ugly, stupid football that Ireland is now sadly world famous for.   

[seafoid]

Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey and Slovakia have bigger populations than the 26 counties and are watching the tournament at home .

Belgium have been shite for at least a decade. Austria hasn't had a decent team for longer than that. 
Talented teams come around every so often for smaller countries. It's the same in the GAA for counties like Longford and Armagh.   
Croatia will be back in the doldrums at some stage. England won't win anything .

we're getting stuck on qualifying for tournaments being a greater goal than being able to play decent football. Achieve this and you'll reap the reward in the long-term, and qualify for tournaments

Slovakia is more or less the same size as Ireland, has a struggling low-income post-communist economy but can sustain a professional league get teams in the Champions League every other year, and outplayed and outthought Italy at the last World Cup.     

Belgium are on the way back up after a long period in the doldrums (and taking time out to restructure and rebuild), have shit hot youth teams and should comfortably qualify for the next World Cup.

Austria and Switzerland are mediocre I 'll grant you, although the Swiss beat Germany 3-0 a few weeks ago, something Ireland would never ever be able to do the way things are.

It's the level of the above countries plus the Scandinavians that Ireland should be aspiring to reach, Turkey's a different league altogether.

Belgium look to be a coming team alright. Switzerland have the makings of a decent qualifying team but that is only because half of the team are immigrants. 
Ireland aren't bad really considering the size of the country.  This is the first tournament that has been really poor.
I think international soccer is like those slot machines where you put in your money and there are moving layers - the money falls onto the first and then you have to see if it pushes anything down to the next level. and there is another level before you get anything back.

Ireland may occasionally get past the first level.

Playing nice football is unlikely to happen as long as the majority of the players play in England.
The English language is a curse as well. How many players would think of playing in France or Germany ?

England doesn't do detail or pay attention to training. It isn't a national quality. Heathrow airport for example.
Terry Butcher is a real English icon. Get stuck in.  That is the sort of football style that comes out of England.

Spain has 6 times as many top level coaches as England according to the FT.

. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a17182b4-aaeb-11e1-b675-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1xss34emh


The scale of English invisibility struck me last week, in the wake of a long talk I had with Morten Olsen, the sophisticated coach of the Danish national team. We were discussing the influences and inspirations of Olsen's footballing life: Dutch total football, his years as a player in Belgium, Brazil's great teams of 1958 and 1982, Germany, Italy. In the course of a two-hour conversation the subject of England came up only a couple of times: he saw some English football on TV in the 1960s and recalled how beating England at Wembley in 1983 was a key stage in the development of the great Danish team he captained.

England's ranking in the world game – Fifa, rather generously, had us in seventh place last month – is respectable. But compared with the big footballing nations, few young Englishmen play football these days, and our footballing education system is second rate. There are six times as many qualified Spanish football coaches as English ones, and cutting-edge soccer nations such as Germany, Holland, Spain and France churn out technically and tactically sophisticated players by the dozen.

By contrast, Wayne Rooney, the most talented English player in generations, and our only world-class striker, is almost entirely self-taught. Those responsible for his footballing education at Everton believed genius such as his simply could not be coached. So they just left him to it.

   

[brokencrossbar1]

Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey and Slovakia have bigger populations than the 26 counties and are watching the tournament at home .

Belgium have been shite for at least a decade. Austria hasn't had a decent team for longer than that. 
Talented teams come around every so often for smaller countries. It's the same in the GAA for counties like Longford and Armagh.   
Croatia will be back in the doldrums at some stage. England won't win anything .

we're getting stuck on qualifying for tournaments being a greater goal than being able to play decent football. Achieve this and you'll reap the reward in the long-term, and qualify for tournaments

Slovakia is more or less the same size as Ireland, has a struggling low-income post-communist economy but can sustain a professional league get teams in the Champions League every other year, and outplayed and outthought Italy at the last World Cup.     

Belgium are on the way back up after a long period in the doldrums (and taking time out to restructure and rebuild), have shit hot youth teams and should comfortably qualify for the next World Cup.

Austria and Switzerland are mediocre I 'll grant you, although the Swiss beat Germany 3-0 a few weeks ago, something Ireland would never ever be able to do the way things are.

It's the level of the above countries plus the Scandinavians that Ireland should be aspiring to reach, Turkey's a different league altogether.

Belgium look to be a coming team alright. Switzerland have the makings of a decent qualifying team but that is only because half of the team are immigrants. 
Ireland aren't bad really considering the size of the country.  This is the first tournament that has been really poor.
I think international soccer is like those slot machines where you put in your money and there are moving layers - the money falls onto the first and then you have to see if it pushes anything down to the next level. and there is another level before you get anything back.

Ireland may occasionally get past the first level.

Playing nice football is unlikely to happen as long as the majority of the players play in England.
The English language is a curse as well. How many players would think of playing in France or Germany ?

England doesn't do detail or pay attention to training. It isn't a national quality. Heathrow airport for example.
Terry Butcher is a real English icon. Get stuck in.  That is the sort of football style that comes out of England.

Spain has 6 times as many top level coaches as England according to the FT.

. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/a17182b4-aaeb-11e1-b675-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1xss34emh


The scale of English invisibility struck me last week, in the wake of a long talk I had with Morten Olsen, the sophisticated coach of the Danish national team. We were discussing the influences and inspirations of Olsen's footballing life: Dutch total football, his years as a player in Belgium, Brazil's great teams of 1958 and 1982, Germany, Italy. In the course of a two-hour conversation the subject of England came up only a couple of times: he saw some English football on TV in the 1960s and recalled how beating England at Wembley in 1983 was a key stage in the development of the great Danish team he captained.

England's ranking in the world game – Fifa, rather generously, had us in seventh place last month – is respectable. But compared with the big footballing nations, few young Englishmen play football these days, and our footballing education system is second rate. There are six times as many qualified Spanish football coaches as English ones, and cutting-edge soccer nations such as Germany, Holland, Spain and France churn out technically and tactically sophisticated players by the dozen.

By contrast, Wayne Rooney, the most talented English player in generations, and our only world-class striker, is almost entirely self-taught. Those responsible for his footballing education at Everton believed genius such as his simply could not be coached. So they just left him to it.

But Spain didn't always have the amount of coaches that they have now.  I think that if any team at any level in any sport wants to improve to the level above them then they need to have the right system in place.  A structured system, based on the basics of the game and learning to improve the basics to the point that they can do it with their eyes closed.  This may seem simplistic but if I bring it to a more understandable level, that is exactly what happened in Cross.  Every kids in Cross can do the basics right consistently better than their opponent.  They may not be just as big, or may not have a big pick at every age group, but each kid, in terms of pure skill level, is generally better than most of their age group.  What this means is that when they get to adult football they find it easier to fit into the team as they are confident that they can do what is required.  They will eventually grow into their bodies. 

If you take this simplistic approach to Ireland and invest more money in doing this type of work then you will produce better young players, simple as that.

[laoislad]

Gerrard---->Carroll-----> Goal.
It was strange cursing them when he scored!

[thewobbler]

Puskas seeing as you haven't given one example of a country rebuilding their football ethos that has actually gained success, I declare your theory a pile of sh1te.

Thanks for the considered response wobbler!

not sure i had a theory unless you mean my suggestion that Ireland over a bit of time should be able to lift the quality of the football they play. u disagree? not sure what you mean by rebuilding an ethos.

Pre-Jack Charlton Ireland were playing less agriculturally. You could argue what Ireland have been playing since then is alien to the original ethos, so it would be returning to not rebuilding the ethos.

if it's examples of teams improving, how many do you want? On international level, Belgium are coming back, Hungary have invested a lot in academies and will probably show up at the next Euros if not the World Cup. Cyprus are no longer a minnow. Turkey, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland were all minnows and whipping boys when I was a kid in the 80s, they're all now medium to upper-medium sides looking to qualify. The point is that all these sides, not even Norway, do not resort to the type of shite, ugly, stupid football that Ireland is now sadly world famous for.   

You kind of proved my point again here Puskas. Belgium as yet have not qualified for anything. Nor have Hungary not Switzerland. So in terms of improvement there's been no markers hit.

Coaching and systems are hugely important.

But in countries the size of Ireland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, the ability to compete on the world stage will always be cyclical. 3-4 players come along at once who are either world class talents or something close to it, and not only can you play winning football, you can play nice football too.

Poland had it in the 70s, so did the Czechs.

Belgium had it in the eighties, so did Ireland and Denmark towards the end. Bulgaria and Norway had it in the nineties. And so on.


Where I fundamentally disagree with you is how you set up your team during the lean years. If your players aren't good enough to take on the better teams toe to toe with nice football, you must employ other methods. You win games, you keep your coefficient up, and when natural along filters in again, the hard work is not climbing the rankings again.

[laoislad]

Two goals from Liverpool players.
Well done Glen Johnson.

[Capt Pat]

I was about to say England are looking more ragged now.

2-1 to Sweden. I thought the BBC lads were overconfident at half time.

[Capt Pat]

Denmark were always good in my memory. From the 86 world cup with Michael Laudrup to winning the Euros in 92 with Brian Laudrup.

Puskas seeing as you haven't given one example of a country rebuilding their football ethos that has actually gained success, I declare your theory a pile of sh1te.

Thanks for the considered response wobbler!

not sure i had a theory unless you mean my suggestion that Ireland over a bit of time should be able to lift the quality of the football they play. u disagree? not sure what you mean by rebuilding an ethos.

Pre-Jack Charlton Ireland were playing less agriculturally. You could argue what Ireland have been playing since then is alien to the original ethos, so it would be returning to not rebuilding the ethos.

if it's examples of teams improving, how many do you want? On international level, Belgium are coming back, Hungary have invested a lot in academies and will probably show up at the next Euros if not the World Cup. Cyprus are no longer a minnow. Turkey, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland were all minnows and whipping boys when I was a kid in the 80s, they're all now medium to upper-medium sides looking to qualify. The point is that all these sides, not even Norway, do not resort to the type of shite, ugly, stupid football that Ireland is now sadly world famous for.   

You kind of proved my point again here Puskas. Belgium as yet have not qualified for anything. Nor have Hungary not Switzerland. So in terms of improvement there's been no markers hit.

Coaching and systems are hugely important.

But in countries the size of Ireland, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, the ability to compete on the world stage will always be cyclical. 3-4 players come along at once who are either world class talents or something close to it, and not only can you play winning football, you can play nice football too.

Poland had it in the 70s, so did the Czechs.

Belgium had it in the eighties, so did Ireland and Denmark towards the end. Bulgaria and Norway had it in the nineties. And so on.


Where I fundamentally disagree with you is how you set up your team during the lean years. If your players aren't good enough to take on the better teams toe to toe with nice football, you must employ other methods. You win games, you keep your coefficient up, and when natural along filters in again, the hard work is not climbing the rankings again.

[seafoid]

It's a very good match for the bit of excitement .