Antrim v Down

[Leo]

Not gushing after a mediocre performance...but second half was a better. We really need Rogers back soon if we are going to repeat last years run.  King needs some help in the middle of the park.
Hopefully the team will kick on and cause a surprise next weekend, against a Cork team who will be well rested but lacking momentum and hopefully fluidity!!

Well the midfield debate will not go away. MR analysis is almost (almost) spot on but a MOM award for Dan Gordon would be based on his performance in a team that struggled far too long (mostly through over elaboration)  against really limited opposition and his direct opponent in particular.
As for King tiring and needing help, he again put in a massive load of work and Baker knew (as did Cork last year) that if you take him on a few jaunts around the park he will get out of puff - then our midfield issue really comes to the boil.
But for whitegoodman to give him 6 as against 6.5 for McKernan and McArdle suggests he, like James, is suffering from Burren myopia. The McArdle thing was a complete joke in particular - incredulity among the Down suppporters where I was.

I applauded Brannigan last week  - contrary to the view of many others - but I never thought I would say this - he was my MOM, tackling the ball and winning crucial possession when we spent so much time trying to make a rank bad Antrim team look like a threat.

I do like the word "conundrum". Last night it didn't just apply to the infuriating McKernan - it applied to the team and some weird selection issues. If Murtagh is still in the panel after seeing McArdle given a full game he must have some patience.

A 12 point win should send you home exhuberant - there was none of that from the serious Down supporters I encountered after the game scratching their heads to understand this mismash of a performance, salvaged by a quite fabulous McVeigh save when we were badly rattled, followed by burst or two of direct football and three outstanding goals.

[Leo]

A few incidental observations....

The paucity of Antrim supporters in a good-sized attendance suggests to me that gaelic football has serious problems in the massivly populated "nationalist" area of Belfast.

The constantly annoying annoucements about parked cars suggests that there was little co-operation between the GAA and local police or others to steward the area between Kennedy Way and the ground to prevent unwanted parking - surely some parking cones, signs and/or stewards on hand would have prevented this.

And the sooner they knock down the Colditz of a structure they call the stand in Casement the better - and hopefully they will decomission the bad-mannered stewards who loll about the place as well.

[PAULD123]

Is it true that the giant killers from the Mournes won a game in the rain?  Is this a first or was it just a fairly light drizzle?  Has the hoodoo been beaten?

The only thing you should ever do before making smart-ass comments is make sure you at least have your facts straight. While there was a bit of a shower before the game, it ended about 10 minutes before throw in and there was absolutely no rain at all during the game.

So this was probably your wee gem of wit that you were itching for an opportunity to unleash on us, but sorry you are not Oscar Wilde yet!

[PAULD123]

Have to say that I agree with most of the comments. The analysis of WhiteGM, Mournerover and Dubh Driocht are all pretty similar and pretty much how I see it. The only main difference I have is in the pessimistic view of the game.  We didn't dominate Antrim for long periods but we did for other periods and the match is played for 70 minutes, not just the middle 20 where Antrim were competitive. Over 70 minutes we won by 12 points. Over a 70 minute performance we outclassed our opposition.

I think we are all forgetting that no championship match is easy. All these guys are fit and working hard. This is their last chance this year, they are all fighting for their season. Many teams try much harder in the qualifiers because there is no second chance. No team will lie down for us. Look, every county team in Ireland has some talent and all teams are working hard to perform. Hardly any wins in the knock out result from total domination. In most first halves the losing team is at least competitive. We are expecting total domination but in truth no team in Ireland has achieved that in a knock out match.

Now mostly I feel that you beat what is front of you. There is more in the lads and they will need to bring it next week but why shouldn't they? In each game for two years Down have risen to the challenge of the opposition. Even every game we've lost (except Cork in the league) we have been competitive to the level of the opposition and had a realistic chance of winning. The lads won a championship game by 12 points. I think they deserve a break and a bit of belief that next week they will meet the demands that are asked of them.

I'm not saying I'm confident of beating Cork but I believe we will be far from lying done for them. I believe the harder the boys need to work the harder they will work and we WILL be competitive.

[norabeag]

[ If Murtagh is still in the panel after seeing McArdle given a full game he must have some patience.
Wholeheartedly agree. His inclusion and the fact he lasted beyond 20 mins was baffling. I'm sure over the years he will bring something to the county squad, but for long periods last night he was a liabiity and King was left to plough a lone furrow.
I would also ask what does Carr have to do to get  reasonable game time.

[imtommygunn]

For Down I think some of you guys are underestimating the contribution of Conor Laverty. He was outstanding and roasted the corner back today. Your #2 was also excellent in the second half- not sure of the name. The difference between the teams was that wee bit of class that Down had in the forwards. Johnston, I thought, did quite well on Coulter as it was always damage limitation but he is a wee bit one paced sometimes and Benny's acceleration was always going to find that out. I also thought Clarke won everything put towards him and you're being a bit harsh on him although maybe what he created was less than usual.

For Antrim until about 20 minutes in we couldn't win a ball. I don't think antrim believed initially they could win the game and then finally started to believe they could towards the end of the first half. I would have been disappointed with the decision making of the forwards at times - there were, as stated before, a few times when forwards were through on goal and bad decisions were made. Also when Dan Gordon is playing full back you play low ball into his man not big looping high balls. I'm not sure what has been going on with Niblock this year - he is playing like a headless chicken and is so much better than that so hopefully a break will settle him now. I thought Brendy Herron did very well and shouldn't have been subbed, also Loughrey was his usual solid self and midfield battled well throughout. Crozier wasn't too bad either I suppose. Disappointed in Tomas McCann's displays this year and Niblock's. I thought they'd have been developing further but don't seem to have.

A big thing for Antrim I think is that they are not nearly as well conditioned as a lot of these teams they're playing. There is serious gym-work required in my view and this should be done throughout the winter. Down aren't even a big team but in midfield and defense they had a lot more physical strength. Also with more strength we could break more tackles which we're not doing when guys are going on runs.

[NP 76]

I have to agree with the good posts by WGM and MR pretty much summed it up . I myself thought motm was a toss up between Dan Gordon and Aidan Brannigan . I really dont know what Dan has to do to get some credit with people saying he marked no none and how poor Antrim were . Dan won every ball that went his way whether in the air or on the ground a great display of tackling and blocking . Brannigan covered every blade of grass on the field his best display for Down . Glad to see Gerald Mc Cartan back and he also did very well . All in all we did what we needed to do with no big fuss quite similar to last year and we are still there . We will give Cork all they want

[NP 76]

Is it true that the giant killers from the Mournes won a game in the rain?  Is this a first or was it just a fairly light drizzle?  Has the hoodoo been beaten?
We beat Clare and Leitrim this year with heavy showers such a stupid statement

[Mid Down Gael]

Down started brightly last night and finished very strongly in the last twenty against a poor Antrim team. The scoreline probably flattered Down for all that although it yet again proved goals win games. A major improvement is required if we are going to take the scalp of Cork.
Our full back line was outstanding last night, Choc Brannigan giving his best display in a Down jersey. Gordan and McCartan done brilliant man marking jobs. Garvey struggled with Niblock while Rooney had another poor outing and is lucky to stil be holding his place, Benny McArdle was playing much better and got dropped. McKernan mixed the good with the bad, we will need a big game from him next week.
Our midfiled done righty considering we had two limited footballers at 8 and 9, couldnt believe when i heard the selection of Anton McArdle, Colgan, Fitzpatrick and Murphy must be seriously wondering. The lad gave his all but is simply not good enough for this level, an average club player imo.
In attack Laverty and Benny where again outstanding, they have a great understanding, Lavertys goal the highlight of the game. Poland hit some bad wides but played well while Clarke done well without being anywhere near his best. Doyle struggled with the pace of the game while Maginn was poor.
Mooney and McComiskey where the best of the subs.

[whitegoodman]

Leo, did u ever think of taking up intercounty management, u seem to no a lot a bout it or seem to think u do anyway.  Everybody elses opinion is wrong and u are correct!!!  If we had of had Gordon at midfield and Doyle and RHB we prob would have won by 15!!

On my ratings maybe there was a touch of burren bias but i like to think i call it how i see it.  I did give Rooney a 5 after all.

McKernan was very influential in the first 20 and the last 10 and whilst Terry O'Neill usually has a big influence on the Antrims defence but not yesterday because he had his hands full with McKernan.  IMO he was def the best of the half back line as Rooney was poor on the ball and Garvey struggled on Niblock who was involved in alot of Antrim moves and scored at least a point and was in for a goal only for a certain push.

On McArdle yes it was a surprise and maybe even a shock but do u ever think that maybe he is doing something in training that we all dont see.  Do u think Tally, McIvor and Johnston would allow a man to start just because he was from Burren.  For a man making his starting debut I thought he did alright.  Yes he made a couple of mistakes going forward which i would put down to nerves or inexperience or both but he got forward a lot, caught at least one clean catch in the second half and imo got the better of arguable Antrims better midfielder in Gallagher.  King on the other hand tried hard as usual, put in a lot of work but tired very quickly, failed to catch any clean ball and lost herron on a number of occasions who scored at least a point.  Thus my ratings of 6.5 and 6.  This is just my opionion and dont claim to be def correct in every thing say unlike some.

[EagleLord]

I sat next to a few women at the match. Shouting,
'Come on numer 23!'
'Come on 5, where were ye there!'
'Get rid of it!'
'Ach would ye kick the thing in!'
Such comments should not be shouted at football matches. I would put forward the idea that they should be banned from games.

[whitegoodman]

MDG agree with a lot of what ur saying and would say Rooney will be under increasing pressure from Benny McArdle to keep his place next wk.

On midfield it is my understanding that Murphy has left the panel and Colgen is injured, maybe somebody else can comfirm that for definite.  That leaves Fitzpatrick and McArdle.  IMO Peter hasnt been at his best and even when he came on last night he flattered to decieve again knocking the ball into the keepers hands from 35 yards.  Agree that McArdle hasnt proved at club level to be good enough to start at midfield for the county but i thought he more than held his own last night and with a bit more confidence/ experience he would have kicked over a couple of points last night.  I dont see him being dropped for next wk either no matter what a lot on this board say.  I would say Hughes for Doyle may be the only change with McArdle pushing Rooney very hard for the wing back spot.

More worryingly for me is the fact that fitzpatrick game on instead of Ambrose with the game more or less won.  This looks to mean that he is nowhere near the pace required and would raise serious doubts about any participation next wk.

[earflute]

I sat next to a few women at the match. Shouting,
'Come on numer 23!'
'Come on 5, where were ye there!'
'Get rid of it!'
'Ach would ye kick the thing in!'
Such comments should not be shouted at football matches. I would put forward the idea that they should be banned from games.

As a woman who frequently attends games I feel compelled to say:
1. I dont think this is half as annoying as being slobbered over by stupid drunk male supporters - but it doesn't mean I make stupid sweeping statements about banning people
2. Equal to the drunk man is the aggressive swearing man who is an embarrassment to his fellow county supporters plus this guy generally doesn't have good knowledge of the team or the game
3. Your team went last night&had a reasonable performance - it says loads about you that all you can do in the wake of this is grumble about weemen on an online forum. If I was you I'd be thinking more about Cork
Finally
4. C'mon number 23 kick it. :-)

[EagleLord]

Obviously I wasn't really actually saying ban women from games! It was tongue in cheek! And I'm glad you replied in the same manner! Come on 23 Kick it! 

[Leo]

Leo, did u ever think of taking up intercounty management, u seem to no a lot a bout it or seem to think u do anyway.  Everybody elses opinion is wrong and u are correct!!!  If we had of had Gordon at midfield and Doyle and RHB we prob would have won by 15!!

On my ratings maybe there was a touch of burren bias but i like to think i call it how i see it.  I did give Rooney a 5 after all.

McKernan was very influential in the first 20 and the last 10 and whilst Terry O'Neill usually has a big influence on the Antrims defence but not yesterday because he had his hands full with McKernan.  IMO he was def the best of the half back line as Rooney was poor on the ball and Garvey struggled on Niblock who was involved in alot of Antrim moves and scored at least a point and was in for a goal only for a certain push.

On McArdle yes it was a surprise and maybe even a shock but do u ever think that maybe he is doing something in training that we all dont see.  Do u think Tally, McIvor and Johnston would allow a man to start just because he was from Burren.  For a man making his starting debut I thought he did alright.  Yes he made a couple of mistakes going forward which i would put down to nerves or inexperience or both but he got forward a lot, caught at least one clean catch in the second half and imo got the better of arguable Antrims better midfielder in Gallagher.  King on the other hand tried hard as usual, put in a lot of work but tired very quickly, failed to catch any clean ball and lost herron on a number of occasions who scored at least a point.  Thus my ratings of 6.5 and 6.  This is just my opionion and dont claim to be def correct in every thing say unlike some.

WGM are you on something? Can't debate a game wih somone who is high on sh**e.