Are the upper echelons of Irish Society Royalists at Heart?

[armaghniac]

I don't think that the upper echelons are leading the way in this. In all strata of society there are readers of British rags newspapers,.and it is Liverpool this and Manchester that. Media people like something to talk about, and think they'll be invited to the big bash.  There are shoneens out there who have now come out of the woodwork, when Franco entered Barcelona after the Spanish civil war there were people to cheer him. But probably not that many, people who have an interest are much more likely to ring in etc than someone who couldn't give a damn.

But QEII is a professional, the world's longest established public figure. She wanted to come and she contributed her own bit, and people recognise that contribution too without being royalists.

[muppet]

With hindsight, the fact is that the 26 counties were never 'as one' in their antipathy towards the English and the Royals. In 1922, a whole class of Castle Catholics - who had done very, very well out of English rule - were now asked to fall-in behind a crowd of former rebels who were now in government. That West Brit / Dublin 4 class would hold their loyalties and it became apparent again over the past four days. During the last monarch's visit to Dublin the place was festooned in bunting and red, white and blue and cheering masses. Just goes to show that - and this is a fact! - Ireland dearly loves a lord and lady.

This always makes me laugh. Parts of D4 have over 70% unemployment and a serious drug problems (and I'm not talking about RTE). In 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.

[armaghniac]

In 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.

Not quite, the big houses on Raglan Road, Lansdowne Road etc were there for most of a century before that. Pembroke had its own (unionist) council and wasn't part of Dublin Corporation.

[muppet]

In 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.

Not quite, the big houses on Raglan Road, Lansdowne Road etc were there for most of a century before that. Pembroke had its own (unionist) council and wasn't part of Dublin Corporation.

Nationalists took control of that Council in 1911 when the elections were more 'democratic'.

[Farrandeelin]

I haven't watched TV over the last few days nor tuned into the last word or morning ireland on my transit to and from work because it sickens me to listen to gobshite after gobshite go on about "dragging the irish into the 21st century" and how "mature" we now are. Did all these w**kers in the media have a big meeting and decide - "this is how we will sell it to the great unwashed". The media in this country should be ashamed, barely a mention of the Dublin/Monaghan bombs and wall to wall coverage of the british queen. I truly believe they have lost touch with the people on this one as I don't know too many people (bar a couple of women who are just into the whole celebrity thing) who gave two shites what Lizzie got up to. Where was the critical analysis of a country spending 32m on security when we consider the furore over TD expenses and the like. Where was the balance to this debate? I have to say the Vincent Brownes and Matt Coopers of this world shocked me in their attitudes to this

Just as you agreed with me on something else some other time this week regarding the visit of lizzieI totally 100% agree with you myles. I didn't watch much tv. FFS how many people could be employed with €30 million etc. I was sick of everyone saying 'oh I hope she has a great time'. Couldn't believe it when my dad told me "it's all the friggin' queen" on tv! I knew there'd be some coverage, but not every move she made. Ah, maybe I'm immature, living in the past etc.

[IolarCoisCuain]

There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.

I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.

The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.

Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.

[Eamonnca1]

Independence has been a failure.

And British rule was a roaring success?

[armaghniac]

Kevin Myarse on Late Late show now with some other sycophants.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Independence has been a failure.

And British rule was a roaring success?

I didn't say that, and it's not something that logically follows. If you say Trappatoni is managing the ROI soccer team badly, does that mean Steve Staunton was a roaring success? Bad things don't take turns to happen old stock. They can come in bunches.

(No offense to Signor Trap, btw. I think he's doing a fine job, actually).

[Tony Baloney]

"Ireland is back". It's official.

[mylestheslasher]

Great balance on Vincent browne tonight. 4 guests delighted with the queen and so proud of Ireland etc etc. The balance provided by Jim corr who talked about Dublin/monaghan bombs before Vincent told him to stop wrecking me buzz.

Don't be ashamed of Ireland, it is the tentacles of the media which should be ashamed. The ordinary joes aren't a quarter as interested as these media outlets would have us believe

[Ulick]

There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.

I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.

The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.

Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.

Fcuk it, I'll say it, +1 feet first!! Today's Ireland is an embarrassment to those who fought for her freedom. Magpie Seanie said that we are a nation of f**king cretins (paraphrase), + f**king 1 on that too.
Irish in name only.

Throwing in the towel is to easy lads.

[thejuice]

Independence has been a failure.

And British rule was a roaring success?

A failure so far maybe. Independence might haven't lived up to all its promises but it means we need to try harder to make it work. The recession and effects of our unbelievable tolerance of political corruption will hopefully have woke a few people up. But pining for the Empire isn't going to solve anything, it will further doom us. We need to reassert ourselves and strive for some true social unity and social justice, instead of the "mé féin" day dream we've had for the last few years.

[ONeill]

There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.

I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.

The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.

Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.

Fcuk it, I'll say it, +1 feet first!! Today's Ireland is an embarrassment to those who fought for her freedom. Magpie Seanie said that we are a nation of f**king cretins (paraphrase), + f**king 1 on that too.
Irish in name only.

In my opinion, that's bollocks.

Standing up for yourself against an oppressor is one thing and an admirable stance. Attempting to define or defend what a national identity is is just a waste of life. You're born on a piece of land (unless you're aboard the Stena) on a planet in a solar system which appears to be the only one capable sustaining human life. Just define your own set of morals and promote that instead of working out what it is to be known as an Irishman.

Today's Ireland is an embarrassment for those who fought for her freedom? Today's Ireland is simply a result of the Americanisation and Anglicisation we embrace and there's not one fcuker here who doesn't whether it's eating a Big Mac to prefers Eminem over Planxty to watching Utd instead of Finn Harps.

We need to lose this complex of thinking we're defending something of cultural value. Open your mind and you'll see that the earth is the earth is the earth whether you're in Cairns, Alabama or Gortin. Yes, traditional music and dance as well as the more literary arts are a treasure but believe me, they're healthy if you look hard enough.

Create an identity and promote an identity? Just be a decent soul and promote that approach to life and you'll find that's the best identity of all.

As for the upper echelons - they're only that if you view them as that.

[sammymaguire]

Hasn't Lizzie had some lovely green dresses on her this week?

I like that post O'Neill by the way, is there a thumbs up button her somewhere??