who turned down the visit to meet the queen at croke park?

[muppet]

I bet you wouldn't dream of saying "move on" to the family or friends of someone  who died in a car accident or who were murdered in some sort of "normal" (for the want of a better word) circumstances so why in God's name would anyone think it's acceptable to say it to people who've lost loved ones in the troubles?  I don't understand.

Pints, I don't want to come across the wrong way on what is obviously a sensitive issue, but councillors would be very likely to encourage close relatives of bereaved to do exactly that. Speaking strictly from a personal point of view the last thing I would want my relatives doing, if I died suddenly, would be to beat themselves up every day with what might have been.

Muppet I don't think Councillors of the bereaved would say "move on" in the sneering, patronising way that those still hurting from the troubles are told daily.  It's simply unacceptable.  Plus, councillors of the bereaved would be aiming at helping those who are bereaved to pick up the pieces and not treat them like an embarrassing nuisance in the way families of the victims of the troubles are treated. 
If you knew someone who'd lost someone close to them and were having a hard time dealing with it you would not say to them to "move on", they would be shown sympathy by any right thinking person but when it's in relation to the troubles they're a dinosaur, living in the past and if we shout "move on" in their face enough times they will forget that their father, son, sister, brother etc was murdered.

Been there ,as I'm sure many on here have and the only way for them is to move on. As a friend sometimes you have to be the one to tell them. You certainly don't deliver the message in the manner you outlined above and you definitely don't deliver it too soon after the event. But the message is the same.

[pintsofguinness]

I bet you wouldn't dream of saying "move on" to the family or friends of someone  who died in a car accident or who were murdered in some sort of "normal" (for the want of a better word) circumstances so why in God's name would anyone think it's acceptable to say it to people who've lost loved ones in the troubles?  I don't understand.

Pints, I don't want to come across the wrong way on what is obviously a sensitive issue, but councillors would be very likely to encourage close relatives of bereaved to do exactly that. Speaking strictly from a personal point of view the last thing I would want my relatives doing, if I died suddenly, would be to beat themselves up every day with what might have been.

Muppet I don't think Councillors of the bereaved would say "move on" in the sneering, patronising way that those still hurting from the troubles are told daily.  It's simply unacceptable.  Plus, councillors of the bereaved would be aiming at helping those who are bereaved to pick up the pieces and not treat them like an embarrassing nuisance in the way families of the victims of the troubles are treated. 
If you knew someone who'd lost someone close to them and were having a hard time dealing with it you would not say to them to "move on", they would be shown sympathy by any right thinking person but when it's in relation to the troubles they're a dinosaur, living in the past and if we shout "move on" in their face enough times they will forget that their father, son, sister, brother etc was murdered.

Been there ,as I'm sure many on here have and the only way for them is to move on. As a friend sometimes you have to be the one to tell them. You certainly don't deliver the message in the manner you outlined above and you definitely don't deliver it too soon after the event. But the message is the same.

I don't disagree with you, what those still hurting from the troubles need is sensitivity and guidance to "move on". Not some sneering jumped up pricks like some people on here shouting it in their faces every five minutes. 

[EC Unique]

I'm with Nally on this one. Some of the 'move on' comments are disgusting and people that have that opinion obviously have a sheltered and nieive knowledge of what actually went on in the occupied 6 over the last few decades. People lost their lives simply due to the fact they were members of the GAA and their murders were directly aided and facilitated by Brittish forces. Tell those families to 'move on'. Discusting and shameful stuff. Sadly not suprising though.

Away and shite. How dare you jump to that conclusion about people you've never met and know nothing about. I'm a nationalist from the north, I'm GAA to the core, I know exactly what went on since I grew up with it, and I happen to think that "let's move on" is a perfectly valid thing to say. There's been enough hatred, enough targetting of people because they're GAA members, enough having to duck below the windows on the train home from matches in Dublin every time it goes through that hole in Portadown, and enough burning of GAA halls because people think we're evil. Enough, do you hear me? Enough!

You don't like the tone of the "move on" comments? Well I don't like the tone of the "don't tell me to move on" comments because they're presumptuous, jurassic, and some of them are so bitter and twisted they sound like they're coming out of the mouths of the Celtic shirt-wearing "no to foreign games" crowd. Don't get on your republican fundamentalist high horse with me, son.

You really do not have a clue do you? The fact that you say you are from the north makes it even worse. I'm not up on any 'republican fundamentalist high horse'. I'm simply saying that it is very wrong of you or anyone to tell others, who may have lost loved ones, when is the right time to 'move on'. Some wounds are still very raw.

You jumped to a conclusion that I am in favour of the Queen's visit therefore I know nothing about what happened in the north and led some sort of sheltered life. That's a contemptible statement and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

If you really believe some of the rubbish you are posting and not on some sort of sick wind up then you are one disgusting person. I suspect you are just a windup merchant with too much time. You should have more respect for victims and their family's.

[ross matt]

Moving on is a very personal issue. Not in the generalisation manner being suggested here. Some find it easier to do so than others but just because they have doesnt mean they should expect the same standard of others who find it harder to let go of the grievances of the past.

Many families who suffered unjustly or lost family members as a result of the actions of the crown forces would find the Queen's visit and all round love in this week hard to stomach. However there are many who suffered at the hands of and lost family members to the provos who must find it difficult to see McGuinness and Adams as suited and booted parliamentarians. Others again who are probably sickened to see former loyalist paramilitaries turned politicians hob nobbing it as guests of the Queen this past week.

For victims to move on truth move first come out and responsibility accepted followed by apologies. That did'nt happen this week. So thats why I think the visit came too soon and there was alot of media air brushing to enhance the overall feelgood factor.

As others mentioned here before a truth and reconciliation forum needs to be established and objectively presided over. Then the Brits would need to come clean about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and other covert activities which resulted in deaths of innocent people. Adams should then come clean about his IRA involvement and the provos in general for the disappeared amongst other atrocities. The loyalists should do the same and also accept their part in stoking the flames of the troubles back to the civil rights days and the catholic discrimination they were happy to participate in or at best turn a blind eye to.

I dont know if its too late for any of the above to occur. Many people have benefited from the peace process. The north of ireland has become a safer less violent place of that there is no doubt. But many politicans like Ahern, Clinton, Blair, McAleese and even the Queen this week have used it (sometimes honestly sometimes not) to leave a legacy after their public career.

But from reading here and in general there are alot of people on all sides holding grievances and feeling left behind. They were largely ignored and treated like a troublesome embarrassing relative this week who had to be shunted away when they post visitors came calling. This causes bitterness and resentment. It also leaves an opening for the scum that protested via lighting wheelie bins and firing rocks this week not to mention the murdering dissidents lurking in the shadows.
There is alot more groundwork here to do and I dont think the fast track approach of this week however well intentioned will have any effect when the hype dissapates. And dont get me started on the financial cost to our already bankrupt Republic!

[Rossfan]

Excellent post Matt .
Well said and well put.

[never kickt a ball]

According to the examiner tyrone,fermanagh, derry and antrim didn't get an invite. Instead fuhrer cooney told them he was the only one allowed to comment on the visit. It also says Cavan, monaghan & donegal didn't show up although it doesn't say whether they were actually invited.

Hoganstand reporting it too:

We weren't invited, Ulster counties claim
20 May 2011

Four of the Ulster counties who weren't represented at Wednesday's historic visit by Queen Elizabeth to Croke Park have claimed they weren't invited. Today's Irish Examiner reports that Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry and Antrim weren't asked to attend. Only Down were believed to have been represented, while it was reported that no officials from Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan turned up either. Armagh have refused to comment on their "no-show" at the event. Tyrone chairman Ciaran McLaughlin was adamant in his claim his county hadn't been requested to attend.
"I've no comment to make on it, to be honest, quite simply because the counties weren't invited individually in the first place and that's the bottom line," he said.
"There's no point in me saying anything more about it. People can say what they want but I know the facts and that's what I'm sticking with." Fermanagh secretary Tom Boyle also insisted his board had not been asked to attend. "The only correspondence we got from Croke Park was the letter in which we were told the only person allowed to comment on the Queen's visit was the Uachtarán," stated Boyle. "I have had no more correspondence about it since then. "The information that seems to have gone out seems to imply all county secretaries and chairmen were invited to the event. They were not all invited to the event. "I can understand why some people weren't invited because of keeping up appearances and all that sort of thing. But there was no formal invitation sent to the Fermanagh secretary or chairman." Derry secretary Liam Peoples also claimed that his board were instructed not to comment about the occasion. "We were instructed not to speak about the visit. The only person permitted to was the president but nobody else was given the opportunity to comment.
"I don't know what the protocol was, whether there were some people invited and some people who weren't but I wouldn't be annoyed about it."
Antrim secretary Frankie Quinn, meanwhile, confirmed neither he nor the board received an invitation to be present for the visit. "No invitation came to me for me personally or the county board," he said.

http://www.hoganstand.com/tyrone/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=148243

[lawnseed]

willie frazer says he would have represented armagh but he wasnt invited either

[Eamonnca1]

... but when it's in relation to the troubles they're a dinosaur, living in the past and if we shout "move on" in their face enough times they will forget that their father, son, sister, brother etc was murdered.

Nobody's  saying that.

[Eamonnca1]

If you really believe some of the rubbish you are posting and not on some sort of sick wind up then you are one disgusting person. I suspect you are just a windup merchant with too much time. You should have more respect for victims and their family's.

Jumping to conclusions again. What makes you think I wasn't affected by the troubles? Had that thought never crossed your jurrasic mind?

[EC Unique]

If you really believe some of the rubbish you are posting and not on some sort of sick wind up then you are one disgusting person. I suspect you are just a windup merchant with too much time. You should have more respect for victims and their family's.

Jumping to conclusions again. What makes you think I wasn't affected by the troubles? Had that thought never crossed your jurrasic mind?

In what way were u effected?  Try to answer like an adult this time.

[pintsofguinness]

... but when it's in relation to the troubles they're a dinosaur, living in the past and if we shout "move on" in their face enough times they will forget that their father, son, sister, brother etc was murdered.

Nobody's  saying that.

Um, yes they are. 
Including yourself. 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I bet you wouldn't dream of saying "move on" to the family or friends of someone  who died in a car accident or who were murdered in some sort of "normal" (for the want of a better word) circumstances so why in God's name would anyone think it's acceptable to say it to people who've lost loved ones in the troubles?  I don't understand.

Pints, I don't want to come across the wrong way on what is obviously a sensitive issue, but councillors would be very likely to encourage close relatives of bereaved to do exactly that. Speaking strictly from a personal point of view the last thing I would want my relatives doing, if I died suddenly, would be to beat themselves up every day with what might have been.

Muppet I don't think Councillors of the bereaved would say "move on" in the sneering, patronising way that those still hurting from the troubles are told daily.  It's simply unacceptable.  Plus, councillors of the bereaved would be aiming at helping those who are bereaved to pick up the pieces and not treat them like an embarrassing nuisance in the way families of the victims of the troubles are treated. 
If you knew someone who'd lost someone close to them and were having a hard time dealing with it you would not say to them to "move on", they would be shown sympathy by any right thinking person but when it's in relation to the troubles they're a dinosaur, living in the past and if we shout "move on" in their face enough times they will forget that their father, son, sister, brother etc was murdered.

Been there ,as I'm sure many on here have and the only way for them is to move on. As a friend sometimes you have to be the one to tell them. You certainly don't deliver the message in the manner you outlined above and you definitely don't deliver it too soon after the event. But the message is the same.

I don't disagree with you, what those still hurting from the troubles need is sensitivity and guidance to "move on". Not some sneering jumped up pricks like some people on here shouting it in their faces every five minutes.

Coming from the King of sneering.

[Eamonnca1]

If you really believe some of the rubbish you are posting and not on some sort of sick wind up then you are one disgusting person. I suspect you are just a windup merchant with too much time. You should have more respect for victims and their family's.

Jumping to conclusions again. What makes you think I wasn't affected by the troubles? Had that thought never crossed your jurrasic mind?

In what way were u effected?  Try to answer like an adult this time.

Irrelevant. You jumped to the conclusion that I wasn't affected, and as I've explained elsewhere my family was affected.

You see here's what pisses me off about the attitude I'm seeing all over this discussion. It's the all-or-nothing attitude. If you're not a Brit-hating provo fan then you must be a boot-licking grovelling loyalist who knows nothing about what happened in the troubles. Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe there's a happy medium?  Maybe it's possible to be a northern nationalist who had no love for the Brits (or the provos) when the troubles were in full swing but has moved on and can see the diplomatic significance of this visit?

Oh by the way, I saw this morning that 95% of the people had a positive view of the visit.  Looks like this place has an unusually high concentration of the "too early to move on" crowd.

[ardal]

Moving on is a very personal issue. Not in the generalisation manner being suggested here. Some find it easier to do so than others but just because they have doesn't mean they should expect the same standard of others who find it harder to let go of the grievances of the past.

Many families who suffered unjustly or lost family members as a result of the actions of the crown forces would find the Queen's visit and all round love in this week hard to stomach. However there are many who suffered at the hands of and lost family members to the provos who must find it difficult to see McGuinness and Adams as suited and booted parliamentarians. Others again who are probably sickened to see former loyalist paramilitaries turned politicians hob nobbing it as guests of the Queen this past week.

For victims to move on truth move first come out and responsibility accepted followed by apologies. That did'nt happen this week. So thats why I think the visit came too soon and there was alot of media air brushing to enhance the overall feelgood factor.



As others mentioned here before a truth and reconciliation forum needs to be established and objectively presided over. Then the Brits would need to come clean about the Dublin/Monaghan bombings and other covert activities which resulted in deaths of innocent people. Adams should then come clean about his IRA involvement and the provos in general for the disappeared amongst other atrocities. The loyalists should do the same and also accept their part in stoking the flames of the troubles back to the civil rights days and the catholic discrimination they were happy to participate in or at best turn a blind eye to.

I dont know if its too late for any of the above to occur. Many people have benefited from the peace process. The north of ireland has become a safer less violent place of that there is no doubt. But many politicans like Ahern, Clinton, Blair, McAleese and even the Queen this week have used it (sometimes honestly sometimes not) to leave a legacy after their public career.

But from reading here and in general there are alot of people on all sides holding grievances and feeling left behind. They were largely ignored and treated like a troublesome embarrassing relative this week who had to be shunted away when they post visitors came calling. This causes bitterness and resentment. It also leaves an opening for the scum that protested via lighting wheelie bins and firing rocks this week not to mention the murdering dissidents lurking in the shadows.
There is alot more groundwork here to do and I dont think the fast track approach of this week however well intentioned will have any effect when the hype dissapates. And dont get me started on the financial cost to our already bankrupt Republic!

Not 100% sure about the north being a safer less violent place post the cease fire, I think normal crime has risen; stabbings, muggings, rapes, etc, but have no figures to back this up as I'm too lazy to google.

Glad Armagh sent no one. I really don't care what anybody thinks, but until the Windsors and their government apologise "unconditionally" to the peoples of Ireland, then feck them.

[EC Unique]

If you really believe some of the rubbish you are posting and not on some sort of sick wind up then you are one disgusting person. I suspect you are just a windup merchant with too much time. You should have more respect for victims and their family's.

Jumping to conclusions again. What makes you think I wasn't affected by the troubles? Had that thought never crossed your jurrasic mind?

In what way were u effected?  Try to answer like an adult this time.

Irrelevant. You jumped to the conclusion that I wasn't affected, and as I've explained elsewhere my family was affected.

You see here's what pisses me off about the attitude I'm seeing all over this discussion. It's the all-or-nothing attitude. If you're not a Brit-hating provo fan then you must be a boot-licking grovelling loyalist who knows nothing about what happened in the troubles. Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe there's a happy medium?  Maybe it's possible to be a northern nationalist who had no love for the Brits (or the provos) when the troubles were in full swing but has moved on and can see the diplomatic significance of this visit?

Oh by the way, I saw this morning that 95% of the people had a positive view of the visit.  Looks like this place has an unusually high concentration of the "too early to move on" crowd.

There is nothing wrong with the view you hold. My problem is that you seem to think that everyone, including victims and their families, should hold the same view. Calling people dinosaurs and Brit hating provos is very patronising and immature, try to realise that other people can rightly hold different views and should not be lectured by you or anyone else.

By the way. I laughed when I read your 95% bullsh1t. Did you ever hear of propaganda or spin?  Don't believe all you read son. I'm finished with you now.